Crazy or broken playable races

[drakoonity]

Ok so our DM is starting a new campaign soon, and he said we can basically be whatever race we want. I know one of the players is going to play a dwarf pixie or something, I think it give them like a +14 or so to dex if I remember correctly. Of course the races wont go from word for word so thing with be changed about them, but I've been looking through different races and have it basically down to two options for my character. I am going to play a druid (as never played one and want to give it a shot) the races I've been mostly looking at are ogre mage and ask to switch up the bonuses, or go mind flayer. I will try and pick up the saint template for more fun. I would like to ask for everyone's opinion on what races should I go with and what bonuses they get, any suggestions would be helpful with a reference, and what exactly that class does (such as bonuses, minuses, special abilities, etc.) Also on a side note if you can give me ideas of different play styles sort of thing would be helpful, my role in the party would more then likely to be a damager, and then start shifting or wildshaping as soon as I can to keep destroying in that form. I heard around that a shifter is powerful but don't fully understand it.

[cosmonuts]

Dvati? Try dvati from Dragon Compendium.

[drakoonity]

Dvati? Try dvati from Dragon Compendium.

It seems like it could be fun, but I'm looking for a race that gives a good amount of bonuses to one or multiple states like wisdom and such.

[Gildedragon]

The cactacae (Dr 352) are interesting because it is a playable plant race. not many of those

Also half-air elemental has no LA written down that I know of.

[eggynack]

Are you ignoring LA and RHD or something? If you're not, then you're better off just going with standard druid races. Actually, it's possible you're better off no matter what. I'll start with shifter, cause you mentioned shifter. Basically, the race itself isn't particularly powerful, but it has a couple of major options, shifter druid substitution levels (RoE, 126), of whom the first and fourth levels are good, and moonspeaker (RoE, 143), which are good for a summoning focus.

For stat boosting, you'd be best off with anthropomorphic bat (SS, 215), which grants a +6 to wisdom without reducing constitution. You can improve things by tossing on dragonborn (RotD, 8) for a +2 to constitution, and you can improve things even more by taking some fangshields druid substitution levels (CV, 40), of whom the fifth level is a freebie, and the others are reasonable.

Past that, you can run something like a dragonborn desert half-orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertHalfOrcs), which boosts HP a lot, and grants access to half-orc substitution levels (RoD, 159), which are all awesome. Finally, human and strongheart halfling (FRCS, 18) are classic for feat gaining. I don't know much about monster options, cause they're mostly irrelevant for druid optimization, but these races are all very strong choices that run zero LA and RHD.

[cosmonuts]

Venerable dragonwrought kobold is likely still optimal.

[eggynack]

Venerable dragonwrought kobold is likely still optimal.
It's alright, though I don't know if it's great. What are you getting here, exactly? Just straight free +3's to all mental stats, except the race itself takes a -2 to constitution, you're spending a feat, and you can spend another for wings? Is there something I'm missing on that? It just feels like anthro bat is better in just about every way.

[cosmonuts]

It's alright, though I don't know if it's great. What are you getting here, exactly? Just straight free +3's to all mental stats, except the race itself takes a -2 to constitution, you're spending a feat, and you can spend another for wings? Is there something I'm missing on that? It just feels like anthro bat is better in just about every way.

I was thinking about the oft debated cheese, are dragonwrought kobolds true dragons. But as you say, anthro bat is actually better since no DM would allow the dragonwrought kobold to grab epic feats, regardless of how they feel about the RAW.

[drakoonity]

Yeah basically completely ignore LA and RHD, I am looking for more stuff you get from playing a certain race and pairing those races with a template for more goodies.

[drakoonity]

Also I know anthro bat is really good for druid, but I first would need to know the specific bonuses you get from it. All I know is that it is in SS but I don't have access to that book and for some reason can't find it online, so if someone could help me out and post basically everything or close to everything here that would be helpful.

[eggynack]

Also I know anthro bat is really good for druid, but I first would need to know the specific bonuses you get from it. All I know is that it is in SS but I don't have access to that book and for some reason can't find it online, so if someone could help me out and post basically everything or close to everything here that would be helpful.
You gain +6 wisdom, -4 strength, -2 charisma, mediocre flight, darkvision, and small size. Running it dragonborn adds a +2 constitution, a -2 dexterity, removes the darkvision, and adds dragonborn stuff, usually of the mind variety, which grants a bunch of nice benefits that stick around in a wild shape.

[Darrin]

Beguiler from Shining South. LA 0 (cohort) with at will true seeing.

[Gemini476]

If you're completely ignoring RHD and LA, the Black Ethergaunt casts as a 17th level Wizard. That's pretty worth it.

If you're allowed races with normally completely crazy RHD, an Elder Titan casts spells as a 29th level Wizard and Cleric, with The casting system of a 29th level Cleric.
Also Str+34, Con+20, INT+22, Wis+26, and Cha+16.
The second(?) page if the monster chapter of the Epic Level Handbook has the ECL for it, if you wonder.

[Ruethgar]

The Anthropomorphic bats also get Blindsense 20ft which with Darkvision is pretty much the only thing that makes them better than the Ravens -6 Str, +2 Dex, +6 Wis. But, as with darkvision you lose the blinsense with Dragonborn making Raven a more optimal choice in that regard.

Edit: Also lesser Assimar are a fine choice for no LA stat boosting Charisma. Add on Magic Blooded and Unseelie and you have LA +0 +6 Cha, +2 Dex, -2 Str, -2 Con.

[Nettlekid]

I'm going to second Dvati. Stats are stats, they're just numbers. Sure it's good to boost them up high, especially mental stats for a caster, but in the end they fall largely into the same mindset as feats. Namely, you never pick the +2/+2 feats, you pick the ones that let you do something entirely new and special. Dvati is a race that does just that. It thoroughly breaks action economy (imagine a Dvati Swiftblade) and depending on DM ruling could make an amazing Initiator.

Thri-Kreen is also one that I like a lot. The four arms means you can THF and TWF at the same time. A Thri-Kreen Ubercharger would be a force to be reckoned with.

[Segev]

I am a big fan of the Dvati, but if you go with it, you'll need to talk to your DM about EXACTLY how it is going to work in his game. The rules for the Dvati are self-contradictory as printed, and can have action economy be anywhere from "one full round's worth of actions between both bodies; yes, this means you have to spend a move action on each of them each round to move them both" to "as long as you're not casting spells, each gets its own full round action."

If you're just looking for game-breaking number-stacking...

White Dragonspawn Kobold Child Sorcerer.

White Dragonspawn is a +1 LA template that gives, amongst other things, a boost to Cha and +1 full-fledged sorcerer level. By itself, then, it's good because it's a rare template which gives you a caster level to make up for its LA.

"Child" comes from the Game of Thrones d20 book, and is a -1 LA template with high physical penalties...but a +2 Cha. You're a very young kid of your species, and while you're technically your race's size category, you have some penalties to wielding two-handed items of those sizes and some bonuses related to being smaller than normal.

Technically, being a Kobold isn't critical, but it's thematic.

The White Dragonspawn Child Sorcerer is thus a very young prodigy at magic, with 2 Sorcerer levels at level 1 and a massive boost to Cha.

[Ruethgar]

The Pathfinder Young template may be more acceptable than third party.

[Segev]

The Pathfinder Young template may be more acceptable than third party.

Quite probably. I doubt, for instance, that it gives +2 Cha and is -1 LA.

[Vaz]

Hatchling Phaerimm get Sorcerer Spellcasting based on their HD rather than class levels for minimal LA and RHD.

[Inevitability]

You IGNORE RHD and LA? Lucky you...

The things that can be done with that...

Example:

Be a human. Now take the symbiotic template. Make your symbiote a half-fey greenbound tarrasque.
Take the half-fey template again, using the template class (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a). Then take the greenbound template.
Now symbiote again, with something even more powerful. Repeat until you are basically all-powerful.

[cosmonuts]

Hatchling Phaerimm get Sorcerer Spellcasting based on their HD rather than class levels for minimal LA and RHD.

Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking. Phaerimm actually is the best choice here. Dat spellcasting...

[bekeleven]

Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking. Phaerimm actually is the best choice here. Dat spellcasting...

The best race in a campaign where they ignore RHD is one with abilities scaling off RHD?

[John Longarrow]

Yeah basically completely ignore LA and RHD, I am looking for more stuff you get from playing a certain race and pairing those races with a template for more goodies.

If you are ignoring RHD and LA, go something fun, like Dread Wraith... Just seem... natural.. for a druid!

Oh, sorry, I think the above should be blue, but for this topic that color doesn't seem... right. Instead I'd refer your DM to the part of the rules covering Effective Character Level.

Course an ancient Gold Dragon could be loads of fun...

[dascarletm]

It doesn't have a listed LA, but tack on the paragon template from the epic level handbook.

[Vaz]

The best race in a campaign where they ignore RHD is one with abilities scaling off RHD?

HD, not RHD. You get HD from class levels too.

[Brunks]

Yeah basically completely ignore LA and RHD, I am looking for more stuff you get from playing a certain race and pairing those races with a template for more goodies.

I've always fancied prothean scourge MM3, spit into two characters at any time, cast as a 8th level sorcerer AND be a shapechanger. sweet.
It has mental abillity score buffs as well, if you infer them from the description.

[cosmonuts]

It doesn't have a listed LA, but tack on the paragon template from the epic level handbook.

While we're at it, why don't we tack on the Magister template as well.

[Doc_Maynot]

Oooo, can we use the ELH Psuedonatural Template too?

[eggynack]

The Anthropomorphic bats also get Blindsense 20ft which with Darkvision is pretty much the only thing that makes them better than the Ravens -6 Str, +2 Dex, +6 Wis. But, as with darkvision you lose the blinsense with Dragonborn making Raven a more optimal choice in that regard.

I just don't think your claims here are necessarily accurate. Whatever the adjustments are listed as in the template, anthro ravens have explicitly listed overall adjustments of -6 str, +2 dex, +4 wis, -4 cha. As for blindsense, it looks like the special qualities listing overwrites whatever special qualities you had before, which means that both forms would just get darkvision.

[dascarletm]

While we're at it, why don't we tack on the Magister template as well.


Oooo, can we use the ELH Psuedonatural Template too?

Sure! The more the merrier!

throw on every template possible!

[cosmonuts]

For that matter - what are the most powerful no-listed-LA templates?

[dascarletm]

For that matter - what are the most powerful no-listed-LA templates?

Paragon is fairly powerful, though I'm not sure if it the most powerful

[Story]

Symbiote Incarnate Construct Warforged//Dread Blossom Swarm

For the low, low, price of +1LA, you get Regeneration while still qualifying for Warforged Juggernaut. Plus you get a lot of other goodies like swarm traits, plant type, crazy stats, etc.

Edit: It's more useful for a melee type. Probably useless as a Druid since it tanks mental stats and you'll be wildshaping anyway.

[Sir Chuckles]

Paragon is fairly powerful, though I'm not sure if it the most powerful

Well, if you're going to ignore LA and RHD, I see nearly no reason to not take it.

[Segev]

Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) Pseudonatural (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/pseudonaturalCreature.htm) Beholder?

[atemu1234]

As DM I ruled all templates that don't mention LA (3e ones, for example) had LA equal to CR adjustment. It worked out fairly well, if a little bit overpowerededly.

[cosmonuts]

Magister most certainly is not LA +4.

[Forrestfire]

No one's mentioned Sylph yet? Without LA, they have Sorcerer casting equal to your hit dice (not racial, total) plus four.

[Ruethgar]

I just don't think your claims here are necessarily accurate. Whatever the adjustments are listed as in the template, anthro ravens have explicitly listed overall adjustments of -6 str, +2 dex, +4 wis, -4 cha. As for blindsense, it looks like the special qualities listing overwrites whatever special qualities you had before, which means that both forms would just get darkvision.

Sorry, mixed up special attacks and qualities. As to the raven, text trumps table. The Anthropomorphic template increases the size of a raven one category, gives it average int, and +2 wis, +4 cha. So relevant raven stats Str 1, Dex 15, Wis 14, Cha 6 become Str 5, Dex 13, Wis 16, Cha 10 there-by resulting in -6 str, +2 dex, +6 wis. The one in the table only accounted for size increase.

Edit: It may also be noted that they only have 20ft poor fly speed just like the bat rather than the listed 30ft.

[cosmonuts]

No one's mentioned Sylph yet? Without LA, they have Sorcerer casting equal to your hit dice (not racial, total) plus four.

Which sourcebook is the sylph from? I can't find it with Google.

[eggynack]

Sorry, mixed up special attacks and qualities. And the raven has -6 str, +2 dex, +6 wis by virtue of text trumps table. The Anthropomorphic template increases the size of a raven gives it average int and +2 wis, +4 cha. So relevant raven stats Str 1, Dex 15, Wis 14, Cha 6 become Str 5, Dex 13, Wis 16, Cha 10.
I know the sourcing on the other stat set. It's just all somewhat ambiguous and odd, primarily due to the fact that raven stats are hanging out in a whole other book. I mean, if you want to get really technical, the section of savage species with the scores you're claiming is called, "Creating an anthropomorphic animal". If you think about it, you can't really create an anthropomorphic raven, because the stat block already exists. It also doesn't help your interpretation, though it might also hurt mine, that the ability score listing specifically says that you should refer to the table in question, which might mean that the text is giving the table permission to overwrite the text in this instance. It's just an odd chunk of gamespace in general, I think.

[Forrestfire]

Which sourcebook is the sylph from? I can't find it with Google.

Monster Manual II, updated to have +5 LA in the Accessory Update Booklet (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a). Three racial hit dice.