How do you beat a cleric who is using antimagic-type spells?

[blackstone451]

Very long story short. The game world that im playing in has a large religion devoted to killing arcane casters because they beleive that casting arcane spells tortures souls in hell. I happend to be playing an arcane caster and i am being chased by a hit squad. Everytime we try to fight them they throw up antimagic fields dispel magics to negate our spells and then attack us. How do i stop them using core-only methods?

[cosmonuts]

Fell drain metamagic taped onto orb of force spells?

Whoops, ignore me. Core only.

[Doc_Maynot]

Core only, huh? What is your level?

[dascarletm]

Very long story short. The game world that im playing in has a large religion devoted to killing arcane casters because they beleive that casting arcane spells tortures souls in hell. I happend to be playing an arcane caster and i am being chased by a hit squad. Everytime we try to fight them they throw up antimagic fields dispel magics to negate our spells and then attack us. How do i stop them using core-only methods?

What level are you?

Are you a bard, sorcerer, or wizard?

What spells did you select/have in your spellbook?

do you have anything else relevant at your disposal?

[Gildedragon]

Alchemy: fogs to obscure sight and inhaled poisons. Go for damaging their wis (cut off their spells) or knock them out via sleep poisons or those that target their lowest stat (prolly Dex) or kill them with con
Decoys so they'll try and antimagic or dispel the disguised fighter (who goes up close and personal)
drop rocks on them
Dress up as a cleric
Magic aura and disguise self yourself as a mundane (there are a number of magic items that can help)

[ArcanistSupreme]

Cast shrink item and permanency on a bunch of boulders and put the now pebble-sized boulders in a bag. Fly over/have your familiar fly over the clerics sitting inside their antimagic fields. Turn bag upside down. Rocks fall, everyone dies.

[Gildedragon]

Note that AMF is centered on them and if you break LoE you are golden.
There is the tinfoil hat trick to encase you in a tinfoil dome allowing you to DD elsewhere

Crossbow bolts that have been shrunk down from colossal

[John Longarrow]

blackstone451
Step 1. Find a Whale.
Step 2. Polymorph Any Object (or baelful Polymorph) into Kitten
Step 3. Drop "Kitten" on Clerics from above.

Do 1d6x (whale weight/100) to all clerics that don't get out of the way when the whale returns to normal size.

[blackstone451]

What level are you?

Are you a bard, sorcerer, or wizard?

What spells did you select/have in your spellbook?

do you have anything else relevant at your disposal?

Homebrew sorcerer that can recall items to his hands that were pre prepared. I can recall about 10 lbs of stuff as a swift action at this level. If i remember correctly, right now i have 2 vials of acid and a smokestick

Edit: 2nd level

[Bronk]

Maybe your next level should be some sort of divine caster, so that you can demonstrate some form of non arcane casting and give them the slip...

[Telonius]

Bad news and good news.

Bad news first: if they're really casting Antimagic Field from their own spell list, they're (at minimum) 11th level, if they're casting it as a Domain spell. More likely they're 15th level, casting it from the regular Cleric list. Unless you use some serious cheese (and the DM plays them like a pack of idiots), you are not going to defeat a group of 15th-level Clerics in a straight-up fight.

The good news is that you've fought them a few times and not been ground into a fine red mist. This suggests to me that the DM isn't intending to TPK you. They'll show up when the plot demands it, and give you some problems. He's probably not intending for you to beat them.

[blackstone451]

Hmm maybe its something scaled down. I seriosly doubt that he is pulling blows as a DM. Its just not his style.

[RSSwizard]

Get your trusty Barbarian or Fighter friends to beat the holy crap out of them (literally).

Their weapons and armor might not be magical in the AMF, but the clerics will be debuffed all the same. Thankfully they generally don't care because I highly doubt the clerics are going to be resistant to normal weapons and dump truckloads of non-magical damage.

Someone equipped with a Lance, or using Leap Attack feat will also jackhammer the crap out of them too. Lemme see. . . lets rage, then power attack for 10 before doubling the damage. Im sure a number of other nonmagical things can be appended to that before the doubling happens as well.

Sure it might only kill one of the clerics each round, but they cant cast spells while they're in the AMF.

And if they drop the AMF to cast spells, well thats your opportunity. Give them negative levels if you can, and then twinspell it. It mana burns them for that many spells.

Also keep in mind there are plenty of BUFF spells you can use too. Like Blink/Greater (5th). Like Ray Reflection (4th) if rays are being used.

The spell Icy Prison (5th, from PF), is amazing because its not like freedom of movement is going to help you.

And its less likely clerics wearing heavy armor and shields, who dont even usually specialize in dexterity and dont get a good reflex save, are going to be much good at making reflex saves. Im not talking Fireballs here, im talking worse stuff that doesnt do damage. Just dont ask them to make a Fortitude or Will save, because it will happen.

And since they're a cleric, Bestow Greater Curse (dropping Wisdom to 1) will get rid of that one, as long as you can get it off. This is the way I kill dragons (since dropping Constitution to 1 gets rid of those real high fortitude saves and they lose like 85% of their hit points).

====

And if you don't have a trusty Fighter or Barbarian to do your dirty work for you, if only to save their own butt because they're associated with you . . . then you're not playing a Wizard right.

If the PC group does not have them, then THEY are not playing the game right at all.

Pick up Leadership feat and get a smashing machine as a Cohort two levels lower than you. Preferrably some big dude who stinks alot and is covered in fur or horns. The kind that carries something that does 3d6 or better damage.

You can also ROLEPLAY getting guys to help you who aren't even cohorts, just other NPCs who hate the magekiller clerics. Not to be paid a stipend in gold, but in a portion of the loot (several +2 or one +4 bonus stat item per encounter taken from the badguys). Its worth it and less than you might pay for some magic items.

[NoACWarrior]

One thing to note about clerics using amf is that they don't have many powers as well. They lose turning and spells and have to rely on their FP and single martial weapon. Trick is getting physical characters who can do more damage consistently to the clerics. I suggest making sure you can get height advantage and have all ranged weapons. Or if they get the drop on you, a good knight and a charging fighter (dungeon crasher) can make a great difference. Heck a max charger can probably drop a cleric a round, and since there is amf the clerics can't use heal or harm.

[Telonius]

Assuming they're not actually level 15, then ... if your arcane options are gone, use your mundane options. Others have already mentioned getting your meatshields to do their job. I'd try to do some mundane battlefield control as well. Caltrops and marbles can give lower-level adversaries mobility problems. Even something simple like a basic pit trap can be deadly to a character in an antimagic field. Dig a pit, fill it with water, conceal it. The Cleric's probably in full plate (meaning massive armor check penalty to swim checks) and won't have any special way of detecting the trap (it's a Cleric, not a Rogue). Lure them in, then drown them.

[Gildedragon]

Spellcraft check could be useful to know what spell they're using. AMF is a pretty hefty spell...

[Bronk]

There's a magic item called the 'Antimagic Torc' that can cast 'antimagic field' once per day... do they have those? If so, can they be stolen?

[holywhippet]

Bad news and good news.

Bad news first: if they're really casting Antimagic Field from their own spell list, they're (at minimum) 11th level, if they're casting it as a Domain spell. More likely they're 15th level, casting it from the regular Cleric list. Unless you use some serious cheese (and the DM plays them like a pack of idiots), you are not going to defeat a group of 15th-level Clerics in a straight-up fight.

The good news is that you've fought them a few times and not been ground into a fine red mist. This suggests to me that the DM isn't intending to TPK you. They'll show up when the plot demands it, and give you some problems. He's probably not intending for you to beat them.

I was thinking that, but if they really are high level clerics why would they even bother casting AMF? They'd have other spells that could pound even a wizard into paste.

If they aren't casting it themselves then it would be dubious on how they are pulling it off as an AMF item would need to be custom made and very expensive.

A second level sorcerer really has no chance if they have those kind of resources. I kind of wonder if your DM just doesn't like the idea of arcane casters in their game world.

[blackstone451]

Hmmm anything is possible. Like I said though it may not be AMF exactly.

[Alex12]

Hmmm anything is possible. Like I said though it may not be AMF exactly.

Time to start throwing out some Knowledge checks, then. You're using Spellcraft, obviously, but also try for K(religion) since it's a cleric spell and you might be able to at least get a general idea of how powerful the effect is, levelwise (something like "God X hates magic so much that he grants his followers a limited ability to disrupt magic around them" perhaps)
Arcana might also work, since it's affecting arcane magic, and these guys hate arcanists.

I'll note that you said it's a large religion. Presumably it's not the only religion. Try and find a magocracy or someplace with arcanist allies to smash this religion to bits (if you could find some dragons, that would be a great start, since pretty much all the mature dragons from Core are arcanists)

[Darkweave31]

If the PC group does not have them, then THEY are not playing the game right at all.

As a note, there is no right or wrong way to play the game so long as everyone is having fun. Parties without traditional roles can be very fun to play in as now they have to find ways to overcome the absence.

Now, on to the question at hand! Hmmmm... 2nd level caster up against mid-high level anti-caster tactics is a really tough one. The best you'll likely be able to do is to lob some alchemical items at them if you're really intent on fighting them.

Alternatively... there may be a roleplaying solution since the mechanical odds are overwhelming. This religious organization seems to have good intentions. Perhaps ask them to help you. You were born with your innate powers and didn't fully understand the consequences, but if what they say is true you'd like to repent. Perhaps join the clergy. Multiclass/retrain as a cleric and enter the dweomerkeeper (right, core only) or mystic theurge prestige class. See if you can work with them to find a way to purify your casting so that it doesn't torture souls. As an added bonus, I'm sure that it'll throw your DM for one hell of a loop. Give them a chance to flex those improvisation muscles :smallwink:

Come higher levels you'll be able to combat their tactics more effectively. For one, the availability of planar bindings gives you some muscle that doesn't disappear when they hit the AMF (though I imagine banishment would be an issue).

[blackstone451]

As a note, there is no right or wrong way to play the game so long as everyone is having fun. Parties without traditional roles can be very fun to play in as now they have to find ways to overcome the absence.

Now, on to the question at hand! Hmmmm... 2nd level caster up against mid-high level anti-caster tactics is a really tough one. The best you'll likely be able to do is to lob some alchemical items at them if you're really intent on fighting them.

Alternatively... there may be a roleplaying solution since the mechanical odds are overwhelming. This religious organization seems to have good intentions. Perhaps ask them to help you. You were born with your innate powers and didn't fully understand the consequences, but if what they say is true you'd like to repent. Perhaps join the clergy. Multiclass/retrain as a cleric and enter the dweomerkeeper (right, core only) or mystic theurge prestige class. See if you can work with them to find a way to purify your casting so that it doesn't torture souls. As an added bonus, I'm sure that it'll throw your DM for one hell of a loop. Give them a chance to flex those improvisation muscles :smallwink:

Come higher levels you'll be able to combat their tactics more effectively. For one, the availability of planar bindings gives you some muscle that doesn't disappear when they hit the AMF (though I imagine banishment would be an issue).

I think I'm going to try this. Not only will it be a challenge, but if it works I will have solid knowlage on their orginization and tactics. It will be a perfect takedown chance. Thanks :smallsmile: