Teleport into space

[m149307]

Is it possible to teleport into space (by using the teleport psionic power)? Someone in my campaign is trying to tell me he can teleport up there with his power, and I am telling him that the wording of the power/spell says that he "some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination." He is saying that he can just look up, then teleport since he had seen it casually... what do you guys say?

[TheIronGolem]

I say "Be careful what you wish for".

[Bellberith]

In the Teleport spell it has a table for not knowing the destination well.

[Red Fel]

Okay. So Psionic Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/teleportPsionic.htm) refers to the Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleport.htm) spell. The spell lets you teleport "to a designated destination, which may be as distant as 100 miles per caster level." That's doable in character levels (out of curiosity, what's his ML?) if you're high enough. So let's look at the rest of the spell.

The spell is based on your familiarity with the destination. Specifically:

“Very familiar” is a place where you have been very often and where you feel at home. “Studied carefully” is a place you know well, either because you can currently see it, you’ve been there often, or you have used other means (such as scrying) to study the place for at least one hour. “Seen casually” is a place that you have seen more than once but with which you are not very familiar. “Viewed once” is a place that you have seen once, possibly using magic.

“False destination” is a place that does not truly exist or if you are teleporting to an otherwise familiar location that no longer exists as such or has been so completely altered as to no longer be familiar to you. When traveling to a false destination, roll 1d20+80 to obtain results on the table, rather than rolling d%, since there is no real destination for you to hope to arrive at or even be off target from.

We can cross off "Very familiar," because the PC hasn't spent a great deal of time there. "Looking at the night sky" doesn't count as having studied it closely, in my book, so if he hasn't scryed it, that's no good. In all likelihood, he gets either "Viewed once" (if he scryed it) or "False destination" (because the target is completely unfamiliar).

So where does that leave us? Rolling a d% and looking at two options.

If it's "Viewed once," he has a 76% chance to wind up where he wanted to be. That said, unless he's pretty specific (e.g. "direct orbit over this mountain") space is an awfully big place. On a 77-88, he's off-target. Given that he's traveling a substantial distance - ask the player to tell you just how far into space he's going, don't feed him the amount - he could wind up quite a long way away. Remember that "Distance off target is 1d10×1d10% of the distance that was to be traveled." So, for example, if he decided to travel 1,000 miles (wrong answer, by the way), and rolled a 5 and a 6, that's 30% of 1,000, or 300 miles in a random direction. Could be up and away from orbit, could be down back into the planet's gravity, plummeting to his doom. On an 89-96, he gets a "Similar area." Space is a very big place, and one area of empty space is very similar to another. And on a 97-100, you start the paincycle (roll 1d10, do it again).

If it's "False destination," he either winds up lost in space or stuck on the paincycle.

On the off chance he makes his roll, though? Technically, he can totally end up in space. He might even find a way to breathe, such as with a Necklace of Adaptation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#necklaceofAdaptation).

However, he'll be in a vacuum, which I (as DM) would label a stressful situation, which would at the very least provoke Concentration checks if he wanted to manifest powers, and prevent him from receiving the rest needed to recover PP. If he made it into orbit, he would lack the means to propel himself safely; if he didn't make it into orbit, he'd plummet to his death.

It's a simple question, though - just ask the player, "How far is space from the planet?"

[Reathin]

I don't know about the conventional Teleport spells, but I'd say "probably not", as there's an Epic spell, Pinned to the Sky, which does so and therefore implies that it's a big deal.

[RSSwizard]

As per the rules from some d20 suppliment I dont remember (probably Dragonstar, but could have been d20 modern). . .

Outer Space hits you every round for 10d4 cold damage and 10d4 (pure) damage from Vaccum. Necklace of Adaptation will take care of the vaccum but it will not take care of the cold damage.

Cold Resistance of 30 will take care of the damage mostly, but it only averages 25 points for 10d4 . . . it gets rolled each time and on average you will probably still end up taking 5-10 points every other round or every few rounds.

Since it is a stressful situation, and because you are going to be tumbling around without any way to stablize your movement (talk about being dizzy), it IS going to require a Concentration check (DC 20 at least).

====

However also this shouldnt be possible because the wording of Teleport revolves around a "place" and that implies that it has geography and such. Outer Space is not a Place in this regard, as it is featureless in any given location.

If the planet was Hollow as an egg and you wanted to teleport down inside it, the same result would happen because its empty and featureless, you would be shunted to the bottom surface instead.

Now if there was an Asteroid or Small Moon that was less than 2000 miles away vertically you could use Teleport to get up there if you had the proper CL/ML to reach it.

There is however another spell called Planetary Teleport or something like that, which will teleport you to another planet entirely. Im not sure if it has a range.

Also note that Plane Shift, when cast twice, can be used to teleport to other planets. Because you plane shift out, and when you plane shift back in the new destination will be the other planet/moon. Because that removes you from the planet entirely.

====

Edit - - - And yes its true, that just because you go into space, it doesnt mean that you are in Orbit. It just means you're now falling from whatever X thousands of miles up.

You would have to go to geosynchronous orbit in order to not Fall (and even then im not sure but I think that in the fine print of math you'll still end up falling).

And you'd die from Fire damage long before you hit the ground. Even if you're not falling at Mach 20 like a meteor or something, the Thermosphere is naturally about 3,000 degrees. It might be incredibly diffuse but its like being sandblasted to death. If the player was being a munchkin id reclassify the damage as Radiation damage at half as much, just to be able to slowly die-roll him to death in front of the rest of the players (which is what you do with exotic damage types like Plasma or Particle Beams and stuff like that, against something that has fire immunity, it gets reclassified from Fire to something else).

As a DM id just say the character gets 10 Rounds to save themselves, or they end up panicking so bad they have a heart attack and die. It would be hand-waved, no fort save or anything.

[Madwand99]

Of course Teleport can take you into space. Line-of-sight is easily obtained. What happens when you get there is a matter of cosmology, though. Some settings are Earthlike, with planets rotating around a sun. Some have a giant dome over a flat earth. Some have luminferous aether, or a crystal sphere. Some worlds are flat, and some have giant turtles holding them up as they swim through space. There may or may not be any "space" to go to.

[SaibenLocke]

A place can be defined as coordinates, can it not? Well space has coordinates.

"As seen from Earth, the center of the galaxy is at galactic longitude 359° 56′ 39.4″, galactic latitude −0° 2′ 46.2″. As seen from the center of the galaxy, Earth is at the opposite coordinates:

longitude: 179° 56′ 39.4″
latitude: +0° 2′ 46.2″
distance: 7,940 ± 420 parsecs (25,900 ± 1,400 light years "

Yes that is real life but it is still a valid point.

[Bloodgruve]

One could survive in the vacuum of space with a supply of oxygen. Atmosphere only puts around 15psi on us at any given time and it wouldn't be life threatening to take that alone away although it would be quite uncomfortable. The problem comes in the form of temperature, radiation and super fast moving micro particles that would bore through you like nothing. He may start leaking blood like a sieve if he's out there unprotected for too long. There's a reason that astronauts wear many layered Kevlar suits ;)

Blood~

[shadow_archmagi]

One could survive in the vacuum of space with a supply of oxygen. Atmosphere only puts around 15psi on us at any given time and it wouldn't be life threatening to take that alone away although it would be quite uncomfortable. The problem comes in the form of temperature, radiation and super fast moving micro particles that would bore through you like nothing. He may start leaking blood like a sieve if he's out there unprotected for too long. There's a reason that astronauts wear many layered Kevlar suits ;)

Blood~


Actually, temperature is a negligible issue. Space doesn't have much mass in it, so there's nowhere for your heat to *go.* (Classic household example: Your average thermos includes a near-vacuum, which is why heat doesn't really enter or leave it and your soup stays hot all day.)

Unless you were referring to overheating, which could indeed be an issue, since the human body tends to produce excess heat on the assumption that something will wick it away.

Dramatic pressure changes, on the other hand, could be a very serious issue; "the bends (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebullism)" can be fatal, particularly in the case of extremely rapid decompression (which teleportation would certainly qualify for, as it takes them from full earth pressure to 0 instantly.)

On the other hand, the "Surrounded by a shell of fresh air" part of Necklace of Adaptation suggests that pressure might be maintained. It seems like a Necklace of Adaptation and a ring of Endure Elements would be sufficient for safe D&D space-travel.

[Zirconia]

So, for example, if he decided to travel 1,000 miles (wrong answer, by the way), and rolled a 5 and a 6, that's 30% of 1,000, or 300 miles in a random direction. Could be up and away from orbit, could be down back into the planet's gravity, plummeting to his doom.

I wasn't sure if you meant to imply that there is some distance which ISN'T in the planet's gravity, but just in case for those reading this thread, there isn't any such distance. Earth's gravity extends everywhere in the universe, and if there was nothing else in the universe and you started at rest a billion light years away, eventually you would fall to and impact on it. In practice, of course, if you get far enough away, you will start falling towards something else (for Earth, either the Moon or the Sun or a nearby star, depending on distance and direction).

If you retained velocity, and teleported straight up from the equator, you would gain about 1000 miles/hour to try to get into an orbit (note geosynchronous orbit requires 6900 miles/hour), but a good argument can be made that Teleport does not retain relative velocity, since if it did you would "hop" into the air or smack into the ground noticeably if you were going a couple thousand miles near the equator, as you can even with garden variety Teleport at 20th level, because of relative velocity differences. Greater Teleport, if used to go to the far side of the Earth, would be fatal, as you would pop in at a little under Mach 4.

If Teleport retained velocity, and you teleported up from the equator and kept your 1000 miles/hour velocity above an Earth sized planet, in order to be in a circular orbit you would want to go up about 570,000 miles according to the back-of-the envelope calculation I just did. Earth's moon would mess that up fairly quickly, of course.

Mind you, "retaining" and "not retaining" velocity starts becoming kind of hard to define when you start teleporting to empty space with fast moving cosmological objects around; how far from the Moon can you end up and still pick up its orbital velocity so you don't squish on landing? It is not even trivial when talking about Teleporting places on the same planet, you must be retaining Earth's orbital velocity, or you would smack into it at 18 miles/second when you teleport across the room, but not retaining its equatorial surface velocity, see the discussion above. . .

P.S. My apologies to the catgirls for this post. . . :)

[Madwand99]

Yes, space is not instantly deadly. Take this quiz to see how long you would survive:

http://www.oneplusyou.com/q/v/space_vacuum

For most people, you'll get in the range of 1-2 minutes, so keep that in mind when considering what rules to use for vaccuum damage. A commoner should be able to surivive 1 minute in space, so 20d4 damage/round is way too much. Cold damage, especially, is innapropriate as space isn't cold (no air to conduct heat away). Heat can be a big problem for the same reason cold isn't, but only over an extended period.

[VoxRationis]

I don't see why he wouldn't be able to do so, so long as his caster level was high enough to leave the atmosphere with the listed range. There are lots of ways (if nothing else, via crafting a telescope) a wizard could contrive to get a decent enough "read" on a point in space that they could teleport near enough to that point they'd be out of the atmosphere. As you said: space is empty. Since it's empty, a few miles off-target isn't going to be a big deal.
I don't know about the cold damage. Space is cold, sure, but radiating heat in a vacuum is tough. You could survive for a bit, even without superhuman toughness (i.e., high hit points). You'd take steady cold damage (assuming you weren't in the path of direct sunlight or something), but probably not so high as 10d4.
I wouldn't retype the damage incurred via re-entry as non-fire, though. High heat does fire damage; that much is pretty simple. Lava isn't the same stuff as fire by any means, but it still does fire, etc. You might add another source of damage from the friction with the air, which would be separate from the exposure to heat caused by air compression.
In short, you could teleport to space, and with a few good Concentration checks, might even be able to teleport back.

[m149307]

Ok, so if he can teleport into space, would the psionic power (he is a psy warrior) "adapt body" protect him from any adverse effects of space?

[NichG]

There is a very important question which needs to be answered first: Why?

Is the player trying to teleport to space because it solves some obstacle that is part of a plotline of the campaign?
Is the player trying to teleport to space because the party decided they'd like to play Spelljammer?
Is the player trying to teleport to space because they're bored and want to do something that will provoke a lot of DM processing time and derailment?

Because if its the third, then its time to put the rules aside and figure out the OOC problems first.

[m149307]

They want to do it only when he is about to die (or dies, I forget.) Basically he uses contingency+teleport+adapt body to get into space.

[shadow_archmagi]

Ok, so if he can teleport into space, would the psionic power (he is a psy warrior) "adapt body" protect him from any adverse effects of space?

Adapt Body should protect him from all the adverse effects.

[Thiyr]

It depends. Is he going for just "that empty space over there in the sky"? If so, then its up to an interpretation. On the one hand, neither psychoportation nor its teleportation subschool has a limit on bringing things into empty spaces. But Teleport, Psionic just says "As the teleport spell, except as noted here", which you could, if reading things loosely, interpret as carrying over that limitation from teleport (as a blanket issue regarding conjuration spells). That said, as it does have a school of its own, the "except as noted here" bit should overwrite that. I'd say that "not appearing in midair" bit would be intended to be there, but it isn't so he'd most likely be in the clear. You need a clear idea of the layout (Easy, there's nothing there. Void is void), and the location (however many miles directly above us), so that's not an issue.

Now, if he wanted to go to a celestial body, say "that meteor" or "the surface of the moon"? Then you lack the layout portion, and odds are you lack the needed teleport distance. But both of those get neatly solved by Greater Teleport and its psionic variant.

[nedz]

How does his character even know about space ? IRL it was a fairly modern discovery.

[Thiyr]

How does his character even know about space ? IRL it was a fairly modern discovery.

How do you mean "know about space"? Do you mean the existence of that place existing above us? That's not terribly hard to figure out. Heck, according to wikipedia, the ancient chinese (other sites of admittedly dubious academic merit put it at 202 BCE-220 CE) had the idea of the heavens being infinite and lacking in substance, so I don't know if I'd even say it being a "modern" thing really works.

And even lacking that, if you've got casters high enough level to cast teleport, I could easily see drunken wizards seeing who's willing to teleport the farthest vertically, and then wanting to see more once they're sober. Or seeing one get hired to check out what's on the moon. Or any other number of reasons.

[Slipperychicken]

Why do we keep forgetting about Greater Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportGreater.htm) whenever space comes up?



Sor/Wiz 7, Travel 7
This spell functions like teleport, except that there is no range limit and there is no chance you arrive off target. In addition, you need not have seen the destination, but in that case you must have at least a reliable description of the place to which you are teleporting. If you attempt to teleport with insufficient information (or with misleading information), you disappear and simply reappear in your original location. Interplanar travel is not possible.


Seriously. High level magic is like pressing the "easy button". Even easier, since this thing doesn't even have somatic components. A 13th level wizard can travel to Alpha Centauri in less six seconds without moving a muscle or spending a dime. Just saying magic words while lying down in bed can get him basically anywhere he wants to go.

[Anlashok]

How does his character even know about space ? IRL it was a fairly modern discovery.

Space travel is a thing that exists in D&D. The far realm is in space. The illithids and Gith are in space. Lots of stuff in space.


A commoner should be able to surivive 1 minute in space, so 20d4 damage/round is way too much.
Nailed to the Sky says 1d4 vacuum damage and up to 2d6 extreme temperature damage per round, depending on the conditions outside the planet.

[Deophaun]

One could survive in the vacuum of space with a supply of oxygen. Atmosphere only puts around 15psi on us at any given time and it wouldn't be life threatening to take that alone away although it would be quite uncomfortable.
Your lungs will burst without the pressure, which is why NASA advises that you exhale while in a vacuum. However, you are right in that the traditional Hollywood imagining of vacuum exposure will not cause you to explode; your circulatory system has evolved to operate under pressure and will keep its integrity in the void of space.

Actually, temperature is a negligible issue. Space doesn't have much mass in it, so there's nowhere for your heat to *go.* (Classic household example: Your average thermos includes a near-vacuum, which is why heat doesn't really enter or leave it and your soup stays hot all day.)
A thermos is also silvered on the inside to reflect infrared radiation. Without that, your soup would cool much quicker. Additionally, a person will rapidly lose heat in a vacuum through the sudden evaporation of all water on their skin. Unless you're already a desiccated corpse, you will have no problem having your heat wicked away.

[nyjastul69]

It depends. Is he going for just "that empty space over there in the sky"? If so, then its up to an interpretation. On the one hand, neither psychoportation nor its teleportation subschool has a limit on bringing things into empty spaces. But Teleport, Psionic just says "As the teleport spell, except as noted here", which you could, if reading things loosely, interpret as carrying over that limitation from teleport (as a blanket issue regarding conjuration spells). That said, as it does have a school of its own, the "except as noted here" bit should overwrite that. I'd say that "not appearing in midair" bit would be intended to be there, but it isn't so he'd most likely be in the clear. You need a clear idea of the layout (Easy, there's nothing there. Void is void), and the location (however many miles directly above us), so that's not an issue.

Now, if he wanted to go to a celestial body, say "that meteor" or "the surface of the moon"? Then you lack the layout portion, and odds are you lack the needed teleport distance. But both of those get neatly solved by Greater Teleport and its psionic variant.


Originally posted by the SRD:

A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

This bit from the Conjuration description implies that conjuring something to you is much different than you conjuring yourself somewhere else.

[Phelix-Mu]

I'd probably just try to tell the player that, if his character is looking for a safe place to hide out for contingency purposes, then space isn't it. Aside from the environmental hazards, it's unlikely that it's as deserted as irl space, especially given published stuff relating to space-faring races, monsters, and such. Also, consider that there are several types of creatures that would not at all be poorly affected by space, and might even be immune to void (elementals, constructs, some kinds of undead, incorporeal anything).

Finally, consider that unless he does know about a specific location and can target it precisely, this is a pretty big wild card. While the chances of being hit by a meteor or a solar flare or similar catastrophic phenomena are probably very small, the idea that space is "safe" or a good place to hide seems poorly founded at best.

Also, consider that, given the existence of phlogiston and similar phenomena in Spelljammer, not all of D&D is actually void. There are areas with atmosphere that wouldn't irl be big enough to support such, and some other irl physics doesn't much apply, which often works to make space more habitable than one might expect.

Really, the most dangerous thing about space is probably that high-level types think that it is safe, and thus we are likely to find Magneto's fortress, archmages, and various magical hideouts in space.:smallsmile:

[Slipperychicken]

Finally, consider that unless he does know about a specific location and can target it precisely, this is a pretty big wild card. While the chances of being hit by a meteor or a solar flare or similar catastrophic phenomena are probably very small, the idea that space is "safe" or a good place to hide seems poorly founded at best.

Well, the chances of being affected by them are pretty low when you're greater teleporting exactly where you want with no chance to wind up in the wrong place.

Besides, you can probably just scry (or otherwise remotely view or gain a reliable description of) the destination, and that would definitely be enough for a greater teleport.

[Phelix-Mu]

Well, the chances of being affected by them are pretty low when you're greater teleporting exactly where you want with no chance to wind up in the wrong place.

Besides, you can probably just scry (or otherwise remotely view or gain a reliable description of) the destination, and that would definitely be enough for a greater teleport.

Except that what I was trying to imply was that space isn't static; apologies if I wasn't clear. What looked safe last week when the character scryed might be home to a cluster of space debris now, a neogi mindspider, or a radiation storm (or something like that...similar stuff existed back in 2e's Spelljammer, can't speak for the current stuff). There's stuff that could easily be in space; the whole gist of this thread is that it's not really terribly hard to either get there or to survive there.

Also, the only thing we really established is that the character is using psionic teleport (not greater teleport) in conjunction with contingency and adapt body. The character certainly should scry/remote view out a place as part of this, as "100 miles straight up" as the direction for the teleport is a terrible idea. Adapt body will cover a good number of issues that might be encountered, but the key behind a safe place to retreat to is that it be reliable, secure, and secret. Space doesn't really qualify as any of those.

[Thiyr]

Except that what I was trying to imply was that space isn't static; apologies if I wasn't clear. What looked safe last week when the character scryed might be home to a cluster of space debris now, a neogi mindspider, or a radiation storm (or something like that...similar stuff existed back in 2e's Spelljammer, can't speak for the current stuff). There's stuff that could easily be in space; the whole gist of this thread is that it's not really terribly hard to either get there or to survive there.

Also, the only thing we really established is that the character is using psionic teleport (not greater teleport) in conjunction with contingency and adapt body. The character certainly should scry/remote view out a place as part of this, as "100 miles straight up" as the direction for the teleport is a terrible idea. Adapt body will cover a good number of issues that might be encountered, but the key behind a safe place to retreat to is that it be reliable, secure, and secret. Space doesn't really qualify as any of those.

See, I would personally throw the "random environmental hazards" like that as rare to the point of negligible, in much the same way that worrying about getting hit by a random meteor is. Yes, it -might- happen, but there's so much space out there, odds are against it being an issue. Unless there happens to be a ton of people going to space leaving debris, or the neogi tend to do spacefaring more than suggested in LoM (or other races hit the stars in general) you should be able to reliably be safe. And while not secret, there is a significant barrier to getting to where you are (namely, having the same preparations as the individual fleeing to space, plus scrying their location, given how far out you have to be). That seems to cover those three criteria fairly well. Heck, if you're really, really worried, you could do it the extra safe way. Find your location of preference. Thinking of it now, I'm a fan of using a random 7-digit quantity of miles. Use greater teleport on your psicrystal, sending it to said location. Manifest remote viewing on said psicrystal, to see if there's anything that would affect you but not said crystal. then set up your contingencies to adapt body + g. teleport to that location, so long as the psicrystal is alive, and you're good. Probably a bit easier to do with a wizard (who'dve guessed) by using a familiar that won't die under those conditions (an elemental, perhaps?). the loss of XP when the familiar dies is a clear indicator of it dying.

[Madwand99]

Nailed to the Sky says 1d4 vacuum damage and up to 2d6 extreme temperature damage per round, depending on the conditions outside the planet.

I'm aware of the RAW. Whoever authored that spell had no idea how dying in a vacuum actually works. Not really that unexpected considering how unrealistic similar environmental effects have been written, though.

[NichG]

The main problem with teleporting into space as an escape route is simply that you're going to fall back down. If you're conscious and have the right spells left/power-points left, thats not a huge deal. But if you're in a bad enough condition that you're unconscious at the time, then you've basically just given yourself about 8 minutes to live. I wouldn't tell the player 'no' but I'd advise them that they're probably over-thinking things and that in their search to find the 'ultimate' defense they're likely putting themselves in more danger than the simpler alternatives.

I mean, just teleport home or something, and make sure to familiarize yourself with a new base and swap out the contingency if you go more than ~1000 miles away.

[Phelix-Mu]

Yeah, I agree that the threats should be rare and probably can be guarded against. But if the set up is for an emergency contingency thing, then you probably don't have time to check things out right before it happens, and as you are probably in bad shape when you get there (it was an "emergency" by Tier 2 standards, after all), you really should be extra sure that this is going to work the way you think it is.

And in D&D, there really isn't any more reason for space to be empty for when you contingency teleport there than if you just selected a random bit of terrain in that forest some thousand of miles distant. Is there something there? Maybe. Should we roll dice to see? I dunno, let the DM first ask the Plot Kitty if there is something there. As a player of a high-tier character, it is basically your unwritten quest to avoid having the DM consult the Plot Kitty. The Plot Kitty is not your friend.

So, if it were me, I'd still be aiming my contingency at a chamber carved into a mountain lined with lead and wards and such, with a stockpile of stuff, which I then modify memory on myself to remove my knowledge of.

Hmm. I wonder which Knowledge skill covers space.

[Deophaun]

Hmm. I wonder which Knowledge skill covers space.
Not a Knowledge skill. It's Profession (hitchhiking).

[Phelix-Mu]

Not a Knowledge skill. It's Profession (hitchhiking).

/thread

We have a winner. Now announcing that Deophaun has won this thread. Time to pack up and go home.

[Slipperychicken]

I mean, just teleport home or something, and make sure to familiarize yourself with a new base and swap out the contingency if you go more than ~1000 miles away.

Or you could contingency for a plane shift, or for a greater teleport to a habitable planet.

[Thiyr]

Yeah, I agree that the threats should be rare and probably can be guarded against. But if the set up is for an emergency contingency thing, then you probably don't have time to check things out right before it happens, and as you are probably in bad shape when you get there (it was an "emergency" by Tier 2 standards, after all), you really should be extra sure that this is going to work the way you think it is.

And in D&D, there really isn't any more reason for space to be empty for when you contingency teleport there than if you just selected a random bit of terrain in that forest some thousand of miles distant. Is there something there? Maybe. Should we roll dice to see? I dunno, let the DM first ask the Plot Kitty if there is something there. As a player of a high-tier character, it is basically your unwritten quest to avoid having the DM consult the Plot Kitty. The Plot Kitty is not your friend.

So, if it were me, I'd still be aiming my contingency at a chamber carved into a mountain lined with lead and wards and such, with a stockpile of stuff, which I then modify memory on myself to remove my knowledge of.

Hmm. I wonder which Knowledge skill covers space.

Well, that's part of what I think the beauty of my plan is. It doesn't take any time on your part to check what's going on after the initial scoping out. I mean, yea, you don't have your psicrystal/familiar with you, which kinda sucks, but so long as you haven't gotten word back from the crystal/haven't lost the XP for losing your familiar, you know you're (relatively) safe. The scrying all comes well before you're in an emergency situation, to make sure there's not anything going on there beforehand. Just spend a few weeks initially checking on your crystal to see if its a shipping lane or something, plus maybe an extra once a month from that point on during downtime, and you're set. If the DM starts messing with you, and doesn't at least make a show of consulting the Plot Kitty (Which is, as an aside, now my favorite way of randomly determining things. Kitties make everything better) during your check-ups, then I'd say he's looking to screw your bolt hole. And once that happens, you may as well just make your safe house "The second door on the left once you turn the corner from Murder Blvd. to Corpse St. Just find the house with the blinking lights spelling out Emergency Bolt Hole, you can't miss it!", because there's not a whole lot any bolt hole is gonna do you.


Although...Best of both worlds. Why not just BUILD a chamber out in space, set up wards, protections, amenities and such, and stay there?

[Madara]

Although...Best of both worlds. Why not just BUILD a chamber out in space, set up wards, protections, amenities and such, and stay there?

Challenge accepted? What's the wealth we have to work with?

[Phelix-Mu]

Challenge accepted? What's the wealth we have to work with?

It's really plausible for almost any Tier 1 or Tier 2 (and probably a couple of the partial-list caster Tier 3s) to actually just make an entire planetoid. Acquiring atmosphere is really the only non-trivial part, and that's mainly because there aren't many spells that were designed with that function in mind, but I imagine that there is an item out there. Typically, you avoid problems with solar winds and lack of a magnetosphere by making the planetoid hollow/partially hollow, and placing the living environments on the inside.

Once we get into self-resetting magical traps, then this is actually a pretty trivial thing to achieve. Imho, a druid can do it best, since there are a few choice spells in the druid list that can make creating a liveable environment easier, but I'm sure the wizard could achieve the same thing with a bit more creativity/generous application of IA.

A much bigger issue is how much of the Spelljammer stuff the DM is using, as stuff involving Crystal Spheres and such can limit the amount of space and the version of outer space you are dealing with (like the sun revolves around Oerth in Oerthspace, etc).

[Madara]

It's really plausible for almost any Tier 1 or Tier 2 (and probably a couple of the partial-list caster Tier 3s) to actually just make an entire planetoid. Acquiring atmosphere is really the only non-trivial part, and that's mainly because there aren't many spells that were designed with that function in mind, but I imagine that there is an item out there. Typically, you avoid problems with solar winds and lack of a magnetosphere by making the planetoid hollow/partially hollow, and placing the living environments on the inside..

I just wanted to stat it up :smallredface: