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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Class The 3.5 Monk, As It Should Have Been



Archai
2014-05-29, 06:39 AM
Comments, thoughts, constructive criticisms, and shenanigans are all appreciated.
Thanks! :smallbiggrin:

Full BAB,Better AC Bonus, couple added skills, proficiency with unarmed strikes, wisdom mod. to unarmed strikes/unarmed damage/grappling/tripping/disarming, pathfinder's stunning fist class feature, improved flurry of blows & decisive strike, Abundant Step: monk mobility improvement progression, Ki Strike: unarmed strike improvement progression, fast movement includes ability to use half of bonus speed to move and full atk, better healing with Wholeness of Body, blindsense & eventually blindsight, immunities to ability drain and death effects, reroll saves against mind-affecting spells, improved Pefect Self



Lv.
BAB
Fort. Save
Reflex Save
Will Save
Special
FOB Atk. Bonus
Unarmed Dmg.
AC Bonus
Speed Bonus


1
+1
+2
+2
+2
Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Ki Power, Martial Art
-1/-1
1d6
+0
+0 ft.


2
+2
+3
+3
+3
Evasion, Abundant Step
+0/+0
1d6
+0
+0 ft.


3
+3
+3
+3
+3
Ki Strike (damage type), Fast Movement
+1/+1
1d6
+1
+10 ft.


4
+4
+4
+4
+4

+2/+2
1d8
+1
+10 ft.


5
+5
+4
+4
+4
Ki Strike (magic), Martial Expertise
+3/+3
1d8
+2
+10 ft.


6
+6/+1
+5
+5
+5

+5/+5/+0
1d8
+2
+20 ft.


7
+7/+2
+5
+5
+5
Ki Strike (alignment), Wholeness of Body
+6/+6/+1
1d8
+3
+20 ft.


8
+8/+3
+6
+6
+6

+7/+7/+2
1d10
+3
+ 20 ft.


9
+9/+4
+6
+6
+6
Ki Strike (adamantine), Deep Perception
+8/+8/+3
1d10
+4
+30 ft.


10
+10/+5
+7
+7
+7

+9/+9/+4
1d10
+4
+30 ft.


11
+11/+6/+1
+7
+7
+7
Ki Strike (damage reduction), Diamond Body
+11/+11/+11/+6/+1
1d10
+5
+30 ft.


12
+12/+7/+2
+8
+8
+8

+12/+12/+12/+7/+2
2d6
+5
+40 ft.



13
+13/+8/+3
+8
+8
+8
Ki Strike (ghost touch), Diamond Soul
+13/+13/+13/+8/+3
2d6
+6
+40 ft.


14
+14/+9/+4
+9
+9
+9

+14/+14/+14/+9/+4
2d6
+6
+40 ft.


15
+15/+10/+5
+9
+9
+9
Ki Strike (death), Vitality of Body
+15/+15/+15/+10/+5
2d6
+7
+50 ft.


16
+16/+11/+6/+1
+10
+10
+10

+16/+16/+16/+11/+6/+6
2d8
+7
+50 ft.


17
+17/+12/+7/+2
+10
+10
+10
Ki Strike (keen), Deeper Perception
+17/+17/+17/+12/+7/+7
2d8
+8
+50 ft.


18
+18/+13/+8/+3
+11
+11
+11

+18/+18/+18/+13/+8/+8
2d8
+8
+60 ft.


19
+19/+14/+9/+4
+11
+11
+11
Ki Strike (dispel), Freedom of Thought
+19/+19/+19/+14/+9/+9
2d8
+9
+60 ft.


20
+20/+15/+10/+5
+12
+12
+12
Perfect Self
+20/+20/+20/+15/+10/+10
2d10
+9
+60 ft.




Monk Variant Class Features:

Class Skills
The monk’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + int) x4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + int

Hit Dice: d8

Alignment: Any Lawful

Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: As original, except:
Proficent with unarmed strikes & when wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses his ki power, as well as his fast movement, martial art, abundant step and ki strike abilities.

Unarmed Strike: As original

Stunning Fist (ex): As pathfinder's monk

Ki Power (ex): A monk utilizes the power of ki to help him in combat offensively and defensively, taking his focus off brute strength, and honing it on insight and understanding his enemy. The monk adds his wisdom modifier (instead of his strength modifier) for unarmed strikes, grappling, disarming and tripping. This also applies to disarming and tripping with weapons the monk is proficient with. He also gains a bonus to his armor class equal to his Wisdom modifier. In addition this AC bonues, he gains a bonus as listed on the class table. This is an untyped bonus, and applies even when flat-footed and against touch attacks. The monk loses this AC bonus while he is helpless, immobilized, wears any armor, uses a shield, or carries a heavy or medium load.

Martial Art (ex): A monk chooses from the following martial arts when he first takes this class. The choice cannot be changed once made. When using a martial art, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham). The monk can’t use any weapon other than a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows. A monk loses these abilities while he wears any armor, uses a shield or carries a medium or heavy load.
Flurry of Blows: As original, except:
Improved Flurry: When a monk reaches 11th level, her flurry of blows ability improves. In addition to the standard single extra attack she gets from flurry of blows, she gets a second extra attack at her full base attack bonus.
Greater Flurry: At 16th level, his last attack (6th attack) in his flurry of blows gains a +5 increase to his last attack, as shown on the Variant Monk table. A monk must use a full attack action to strike with a flurry of blows.
OR
Decisive Strike: Instead of additional attacks, a monk makes one attack that deals greater damage. Using your highest base attack bonus but taking a –2 penalty on this attack roll. If the attack hits, it deals double of the total damage (as does any other attack you make before the start of your next turn). At 6th level, the penalty on the attack roll lessens to –1, and at 11th level it disappears.
Improved Strike: At 11th level, a monk deals triple damage.
Greater Strike: At 16th level, it does quadruple damage.

Evasion (ex): As original

Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, a monk gains an enchantment bonus to speed, as shown on the variant monk table. A monk is able to move at a distance equal to half his bonus speed (not his total speed) rounded down and then use a full attack action. For example, a 15th level monk can up to 25 ft. and then use his flurry of blows full attack action. A monk in armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this ability.

Ki Strike (ex): A monk’s unarmed strikes are empowered with ki. A monk loses this ability while he wears any armor, uses a shield or carries a medium or heavy load.
At 3rd level, you can opt for your unarmed strikes to deal your choice of bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage as a swift action. Once you make this choice, your unarmed strikes continue to deal the chosen damage type until you use another swift action to change it.
At 5th level, all of a monk's unarmed strikes are magical weapons.
At 7th level they count as both aspects of his alignment.
At 9th level they count as adamantine weapons.
At 11th level they count as all mundane substances for the purpose of overcoming DR.
At 13th level they are treated as being enchanted by Ghost Touch.
At 15th level you can slay your enemies with a single strike. He can use this slaying attack once per day, and he must announce his intent before making his attack roll. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be affected. The target makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + ½ the monk’s level + the monk’s Wisdom modifier), and if the monk strikes successfully and the target takes damage from the blow, the slaying attack succeeds and the target immediately dies.
At 17th level they become keen weapons. Unarmed strikes now have a critical range of 19-20 x2. This stacks with the Improved Critical Feat or Keen Edge spell, but not both at once.
At 19th level they are enchanted by Greater Dispel Magic (as the spell) and can dispel whatever target, creature or object, that they strike up to a number of times per day equal to his wisdom modifier.

Abundant Step (ex): Monks have trained themselves to move so quickly and with such precision that no effort or force is wasted. Starting at 4th level and every 2 levels thereafter, this training allows them to move across steadily more difficult surfaces and overcome obstacles that would hinder others. A monk loses this ability while he wears any armor, uses a shield, or carries a medium or heavy load.
At 2nd level, a monk always counts as having a running start when making jump checks. He also adds his monk level to his jump, balance and tumble checks.
At 6th level, a monk can move over difficult terrain with no penalty.
At 10th level, monks cannot be magically slowed or hindered, as if under the freedom of movement spell.
At 14th level, a monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door, except as noted here. The distance traveled is 5' per monk level. The caster level for this effect is one-half the monk level (rounded down). A monk can use this ability a number of times equal to half of his monk level (rounded down) per day.
At 18th level, a monk gains the ability to assume an ethereal state for a number of minutes equal to half of his monk level (rounded down) per day, as though using the spell etherealness. He may go ethereal on a number of different occasions during any single day, as long as the total number of minutes spent in an ethereal state does not exceed his daily limit.

Martial Expertise (ex): At 5th level a monk selects Improved Grapple or Improved Disarm or Improved Trip as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the proper prerequisites. The +4 granted by the feat increases to +6 at 10th level, then +8 at 15th level, and then +10 at 20th level.

Wholeness of Body (ex): At 7th level, a Monk gains the ability to heal his own wounds. As a standard action, he can heal an amount of damage equal to his monk level times his wisdom modifier a number of times per day equal to his constitution modifier.

Deep Perception (ex): At 9th level, a Monk's connection to the world around him deepens. He gains blindsense out to 10 feet. As he increases in level, his perception abilities strengthen, and this range increases by 5 ft. every three monk levels beyond 9, to a maximum of 30 ft.

Diamond Body (ex): At 11th level, monks are no longer subject to ability drain. Instead, any effect that would cause ability drain instead causes ability damage. In addition, ability damage heals at a rate of 1/ability/hour. This does not apply to self-inflicted ability drain.

Diamond Soul (su): At 13th level, monks gain spell resistance equal to 10 + monk level + their wisdom modifier.

Vitality of Body (ex): At 15th level, monks gain immunity to all death spells, magical, death effects, energy drain, and any negative energy effects. This does not protect against other sorts of attacks even if those attacks might be lethal.

Deeper Perception (ex): At 17th level, a monk gains blindsight out to half the distance of his blindsense (round down).

Freedom of Thought (ex): A 19th level or higher Monk can re-roll any failed save against a Mind-Affecting effect, though the second roll must be kept. You must choose whether or not to re-roll before the outcome is determined

Perfect Self: A 20th level Monk has so attuned himself with the underlying flows of the world around him that he becomes a part of them. His type changes to outsider, with subtypes based on the aspects of his alignment. He also gains DR 10 overcome only by weapons that oppose either aspect of his alignment. Unlike other outsiders, the monk can still be brought back from the dead as if he were a member of his previous creature type.

Archai
2014-05-30, 05:03 AM
Thoughts? Anyone?

Inevitability
2014-05-30, 05:12 AM
I think Perfect Self should be edited to include the following:

'The monk can still count as her previous creature type for the purpose of spells if she wishes to do so.'

This makes sure the monk can't be targetted by harmful spells like Charm Person anymore, but still by buffs like Enlarge Person.

Loek
2014-05-30, 05:17 AM
I don't have the time for a full scan... but some inital thoughts.

Full BaB is probably a good thing.

Some people have been arguing about RAW whether the monk is proficient with his unarmed attack... maybe add that (mostly redudant fact) so that even they are happy with?

Fast movement is interesting... however, it's basically giving them a free (move) action per turn from 9th level on... not so sure about that...

Deep perception is nice, but I don't think you should advance it that fast and that far... maybe 5ft per 3 levels? maxing at 30 or so ft is already quite powerful.

Not sure about the diamond soul change...

Some of the abundant step features (dimension door especially) are a bit much... maybe dailing down the amount of times he can use it?

ki strike (11th level) is again a bit much... as it now beats allignments, materials, magic types (including epic) and even unbeatable DR (x/-)...

ki strike (13th) on the other hand is neat, but significantly weaker


All and all the higher level abilities give players reason to keep going monk... but maybe a bit too much so... But I like the general idea behind the whole

PS: maybe you can give a list (in a spoiler at the top of the post) stating everything you changed. (Which is always useful for quick scans etc)

Archai
2014-05-30, 07:34 AM
I think Perfect Self should be edited to include the following:

'The monk can still count as her previous creature type for the purpose of spells if she wishes to do so.'

This makes sure the monk can't be targetted by harmful spells like Charm Person anymore, but still by buffs like Enlarge Person.

Good point. Thanks!



I don't have the time for a full scan... but some inital thoughts.

Full BaB is probably a good thing.

Some people have been arguing about RAW whether the monk is proficient with his unarmed attack... maybe add that (mostly redudant fact) so that even they are happy with?

Fast movement is interesting... however, it's basically giving them a free (move) action per turn from 9th level on... not so sure about that...

Deep perception is nice, but I don't think you should advance it that fast and that far... maybe 5ft per 3 levels? maxing at 30 or so ft is already quite powerful.

Not sure about the diamond soul change...

Some of the abundant step features (dimension door especially) are a bit much... maybe dailing down the amount of times he can use it?

ki strike (11th level) is again a bit much... as it now beats allignments, materials, magic types (including epic) and even unbeatable DR (x/-)...

ki strike (13th) on the other hand is neat, but significantly weaker


All and all the higher level abilities give players reason to keep going monk... but maybe a bit too much so... But I like the general idea behind the whole

PS: maybe you can give a list (in a spoiler at the top of the post) stating everything you changed. (Which is always useful for quick scans etc)

I added a spoiler list. I am okay with limiting the dimension door a bit more.
How about instead of overcoming ALL damage reduction at level 11, maybe it can be: "counts as all mundane substance for the purpose of overcoming DR."

Thank you for your comments!

Telonius
2014-05-30, 07:47 AM
For Decisive Strike, more of a clarification - when you say, "Instead of additional attacks, a monk makes one attack..." - does that mean that you only get one attack that round, period, with no iteratives? Or does it just replace the best attack that you'd normally get, instead of getting flurry's extra attacks?

I'd remove the alignment requirement, but that's more of a personal preference. (I don't like alignment requirements unless it's a deity- or code-of-conduct-related class like Cleric, Favored Soul, or Paladin).

Archai
2014-05-30, 08:10 AM
For Decisive Strike, more of a clarification - when you say, "Instead of additional attacks, a monk makes one attack..." - does that mean that you only get one attack that round, period, with no iteratives? Or does it just replace the best attack that you'd normally get, instead of getting flurry's extra attacks?

I'd remove the alignment requirement, but that's more of a personal preference. (I don't like alignment requirements unless it's a deity- or code-of-conduct-related class like Cleric, Favored Soul, or Paladin).

Oh, no it was my intention to have it apply to all attacks that round (inlcuding the penalty)

Archai
2014-05-30, 07:21 PM
BTW, I am editing my first post with some fixes as people suggest them.

andreichekov
2014-05-31, 08:03 PM
Is this class meant to fight melee?
Right now it has no armour, and a d8 hit die. Which means that it still sucks

Try d12, and a +2 bonus to AC at level one. That way, their gearless bodies are not just minced meat waiting to happen.

And if moving fast is something a monk is supposed to do, you should start that at first level, because right now, he isn't getting those bonuses until after they matter. He is slightly faster than a horse at level 18, where your enemies often have 200 ft move speed.

You should also allow the monk to have his fists enchanted with stuff. I mean, giving the abilities as part of his class stuff is nice and all, but the customization lost there is sad.


At 14th level, a monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door, except as noted here. The distance traveled is 5' per monk level. The caster level for this effect is one-half the monk level (rounded down). A monk can use this ability a number of times equal to half of his monk level (rounded down) per day.


That is bad. Dimension door is a spell that turns up 5 levels earlier, and you get a bad version of a spell that no one cares about anymore. At 14th level, they could have the spell at will and it wouldn't hurt.
Or, if you really want to limit it, they can travel 100 ft. per monk level, with a caster level equal to their monk level -3, and can be used a number of times equal to widom bonus +3.


At 18th level, a monk gains the ability to assume an ethereal state for a number of minutes equal to half of his monk level (rounded down) per day, as though using the spell etherealness. He may go ethereal on a number of different occasions during any single day, as long as the total number of minutes spent in an ethereal state does not exceed his daily limit.

This is also really bad. That would be okay for a level 6 ability. Also, what action is used to enter this? Swift, move, immediate?... etc.

Freedom of thought should be a flat immunity to negative mind affecting saves.

I'm done reading stuff for now, But I'm not done with pointing at stuff.
Apologies if I come across as grumpy. I'm tired, and working on a Saturday. : S

Archai
2014-06-02, 01:13 AM
Apologies if I come across as grumpy. I'm tired, and working on a Saturday. : S

Oh no, I don't mind. I appreciate all opinions. So, I notice that one guy said the Abundant Step feature was too powerful, so I modified it to: "A monk can use this ability a number of times equal to half his monk level (rounded down) per day." rather than "equal to his monk level per day".
Now someone is saying its too weak.

What does everyone else think about this being too weak or too strong?

Thanks!

andreichekov
2014-06-02, 12:34 PM
Oh no, I don't mind. I appreciate all opinions. So, I notice that one guy said the Abundant Step feature was too powerful, so I modified it to: "A monk can use this ability a number of times equal to half his monk level (rounded down) per day." rather than "equal to his monk level per day".
Now someone is saying its too weak.

What does everyone else think about this being too weak or too strong?

Thanks!

The thing about it, is that it is too strong compared to the fighter, ranger, paladin, old monk, adept, samurai, swashbuckler, and scout.

That is a daunting list, but those classes are weaker than everything in the monster manual bar house cats.

The way I described it, abundant step is still worse than everything that happens in tier 2 and up, making is tier 3. Which I assume is what you were looking for in the first place.

The blindsight and blind sense things also have a range that means nothing. At level 10 and up the game moves into the abstract, where instead of playing on a grid, you just say what is in close, medium or long range. If an ability doesn't have a range of 25+5/2 levels then it isn't an ability. Blindsense is not much better than blind sight

In addition, creatures at higher levels move 200ft per round, and still attack. What are you going to do about that with a bonus of 90 to your move speed? nothing. I would suggest leaving the reasonable numbers behind at level 10 and just make so that you get 200 ft bonus by 20.
So, +10 levels 1-3, +20 4-6, +30 7-10, 11 +40, 12 +60, 13 +70, 14 +80, 15 +100, 16 +120, 17 +140, 18 +160, 20 +200
That keeps it reasonable at all levels. At 10+ you don't even look like a human anymore in what you can do, because you left Aragorn behind at level 5, and now you are bypassing Snake.

Inevitability
2014-06-02, 12:41 PM
I'd call this tier 4 at best. Sure, you don't longer suck, but I nowhere see the variety of interesting combat options that tier 3 classes have.

andreichekov
2014-06-02, 05:23 PM
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Monk,_Tome_%283.5e_Class%29

just take a look at that. That is a good monk.

Archai
2014-06-02, 08:43 PM
Okay, I'm not sure if I'll try to improve it or scrap my monk idea, but at least I'm stepping away with a better understanding. Thank you all for your input!

andreichekov
2014-06-02, 08:59 PM
Watch stuff that Jackie Chan, Jet Li, and Bruce Lee do for lower levels.
Say 1-7. Can your monk do those things? If not, why?

At 8-13 Your monk should look Gohan

at 14-20 you should be turning into Goku crossed with Superman