Rage Mage Question

[TheElfLord]

Okay, so I was reading the entry for rage mage and got very confussed. What is the relationship between a spell rage and normal rage? Can a RM do both at once? Does he suffer twice the drawbacks then?

[Hyfigh]

Both rages would work at the same time. There is no language barring one while the other is active. The penalties would stack.

Edit: I should have been more clear. The normal rage will bar you from spellcasting though.

...nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require...

[oriong]

Actually, the description of the Rage Mage's ability says that the Rage Mage may cast spells 'while raging' not 'while spell raging' or 'in a spell rage'. By this wording it is possible for them to cast a spell while barbarian raging as well.

[Hyfigh]

Actually, the description of the Rage Mage's ability says that the Rage Mage may cast spells 'while raging' not 'while spell raging' or 'in a spell rage'. By this wording it is possible for them to cast a spell while barbarian raging as well.

Indeed. Good catch. Though coming up with a good reason to mesh the two at the same time is beyond me...

[oriong]

hmmm, well I could see quicked buffs or combat control spell having their use mid-melee, but yeah, there's not a whole lot of reason to combine spellcasting and barbarian rage at once.

[Fax Celestis]

How about being a Duskblade/Barbarian/Rage Mage, buffing yourself, and going in swinging, casting as needed? There's a good instance.

Or another: Battle Sorceror/Barbarian/Rage Mage.

[Hyfigh]

I'd prefer one or the other. Typically, my gish have their buffs running prior to a fight, but each unto their own...

[oriong]

From the way I see it the main justification to take rage mage (spell rage aside) is that it grants some casting progression along with decent hit points and BAB, and it's various other abilities (such as Spell Fury and Warrior Cry).

So, by itself it gives a half-way decent gish build there. The reason to cast while raging would pretty much be the caster level boost you get (which not only gives you full Rage Mage caster level, it also counts all non-caster classes as well).

So, a fairly straightforward barbarian/spellcaster combo will have an effective caster level of his character level when raging. It's probably less effective with characters like Duskblades who have only lost something like 1 level to barbarian levels.

EDIT: the main problem is that most of the spells you want to cast are buffs, and the only thing caster level affects on most buffs is duration...and when you have only 3+Con rounds of raging before exhaustion hits this isn't going to do much. So it seems like it's more optimized for blasting which isn't the best choice for gish obviously.

[Zincorium]

The problem as I see it with the Rage Mage class is that it goes against all the Gish optomization strategies and requires two classes (caster and barbarian of some sort) that tend to work poorly together. You're either a somewhat weakened caster or a somewhat weakened raging tank, and you can't be both at the same time until you take levels of the class.

By 'goes against gish optomization strategies' I mean that it is neither full BAB or full caster progression, and when trying to make a gish that puts you behind in both things that you want to be as high as possible.

[TheElfLord]

thanks for all the input.

The reason I asked this question is that a player in an upcoming game is going to play a barbarian sorcerer. He and I were planing on designing a feat that would let him cast certain spells in combat, but this class seems to merge the two ideas nicely.

[PinkysBrain]

I'd houserule the PrC to give full spellcasting progression, and allow the extra rage feat to give you extra spell rage too. Yes ... compared to the original that is way way overpowering, but that is only because the original is way way weak.

[oriong]

Part of the issue there is that if you give full spellcasting progression then the 'Spell Rage' Ability becomes even less useful (now it's only giving you back caster levels for those barbarian or fighter levels you took).

It might be a better idea to give the class full BAB.

[PinkysBrain]

IMO BAB is overrated, I'd prefer the spellcasting ... besides, with the capstone ability you already get full BAB 1/day.

[Hyfigh]

If he ends up taking 5 levels of Abjurant Champion his caster level matches his BAB...

[Zincorium]

If he ends up taking 5 levels of Abjurant Champion his caster level matches his BAB...

Yeah but effective caster level is generally not nearly as good as actual spellcasting levels. You don't get new and higher level spells, all that improves are the parameters of the spells you already have. And while abjurant champion is indeed an awesome class, it still can't save the rage mage as it is now.

[Hyfigh]

Yeah but effective caster level is generally not nearly as good as actual spellcasting levels. You don't get new and higher level spells, all that improves are the parameters of the spells you already have. And while abjurant champion is indeed an awesome class, it still can't save the rage mage as it is now.

Which brings me back to my square one comment... Why you would want to have rage and spell rage at the same time is beyond me.