half shadow dragon vs spellstiched necropolitan and gestalt help.

[adriana]

My original goal for this character was to play a half shadow dragon gestalt and use an LA buy off. However becoming a necropolitan that is spellstiched looks awesome. I'm having a hard time deciding. Both can fit my necro cleric "bad ass" look I'm going for. both have advantages but I'm starting to think a spellstiched necropolitan would have more of an advantage. Any thoughts?

[LTwerewolf]

Don't forget all the possible dragon blooded fun. There are a lot of spells out there that work differently if you're dragon blooded or better.

[adriana]

Don't forget all the possible dragon blooded fun. There are a lot of spells out there that work differently if you're dragon blooded or better.

yeah My original idea was cleric 5/RKV 10/ contemplative 5//crusader 5/ dragonfire adept 15 or something along those lines while mixing in some corpse crafting Dmm persist and some Meta dragon breath feats.

I'm just.... torn... LOL If I could be both I would. But alas I must choose in the next day or two.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Necropolitan if you can say you were created by a Dread Necromancer 8+ with all the Corpsecrafter line of feats in the area of a Fell Energy Desecrate with an evil altar present. That will give you the following benefits, in addition to the normal Necropolitan benefits:

+4 Enhancement bonus to Strength and Dexterity
+4 Turn Resistance
+1d6 cold damage on natural weapon attacks
+2 natural armor
+4 initiative
+10 ft. to your base land speed
+10 hit points per level

[LTwerewolf]

Why can't you be both? Human heritage feat gives you humanoid type back, so you can be necropolitan. Prerequisite for human heritage is half human, so if half your half dragon is human, you're set. Necropolitan is an acquired template. By default, the spellstitched template would also have to be acquired (though iirc it doesn't specify) since few things start out as undead.

[shadowseve]

Why can't you be both? Human heritage feat gives you humanoid type back, so you can be necropolitan. Prerequisite for human heritage is half human, so if half your half dragon is human, you're set. Necropolitan is an acquired template. By default, the spellstitched template would also have to be acquired (though iirc it doesn't specify) since few things start out as undead.

that would work.

[adriana]

Necropolitan if you can say you were created by a Dread Necromancer 8+ with all the Corpsecrafter line of feats in the area of a Fell Energy Desecrate with an evil altar present. That will give you the following benefits, in addition to the normal Necropolitan benefits:

+4 Enhancement bonus to Strength and Dexterity
+4 Turn Resistance
+1d6 cold damage on natural weapon attacks
+2 natural armor
+4 initiative
+10 ft. to your base land speed
+10 hit points per level

interestingly enough by the story if I went that route it would be a dread necro that turned me. Like I said if only I could be both.

[adriana]

Why can't you be both? Human heritage feat gives you humanoid type back, so you can be necropolitan. Prerequisite for human heritage is half human, so if half your half dragon is human, you're set. Necropolitan is an acquired template. By default, the spellstitched template would also have to be acquired (though iirc it doesn't specify) since few things start out as undead.


that might be worth looking into. You could always say the dread necromancer spellstiched me I suppose no?

[Ellowryn]

You have 2 choices then: Ask your DM if being a Half-Dragon can count as being half human via the feat, which in all honesty you should cause you know you are HALF-Dragon, OR you could just go Dracolich (Draconomicon). And be a Bad-A$$. A near invincible Bad-A$$.

[adriana]

You have 2 choices then: Ask your DM if being a Half-Dragon can count as being half human via the feat, which in all honesty you should cause you know you are HALF-Dragon, OR you could just go Dracolich (Draconomicon). And be a Bad-A$$. A near invincible Bad-A$$.

That is nasty and I'll def have a talk with my dm about this. I could use some kind of illusion to keep me beautiful LOL.

I'm wondering if I would still get the bonuses by being created by a dread necro.

the only downside is a 7 level buyout on that.

[adriana]

You have 2 choices then: Ask your DM if being a Half-Dragon can count as being half human via the feat, which in all honesty you should cause you know you are HALF-Dragon, OR you could just go Dracolich (Draconomicon). And be a Bad-A$$. A near invincible Bad-A$$.

would she be able to retain her half dragon form or would she not turn into a full dragon?

[Ellowryn]

Form? Technically a half dragon is a dragon, so i don't know what you are asking.

[LTwerewolf]

You have 2 choices then: Ask your DM if being a Half-Dragon can count as being half human via the feat, which in all honesty you should cause you know you are HALF-Dragon, OR you could just go Dracolich (Draconomicon). And be a Bad-A$$. A near invincible Bad-A$$.

Half-dragon is a template that you add onto a base race. As long as your base race is human, it works unequivocally.

[adriana]

Half-dragon is a template that you add onto a base race. As long as your base race is human, it works unequivocally.

would you not need the human feat you mentioned above for necroopolitin since half dragon changes you to dragon?

the dracolitch has me drooling a bit. I'm just not sure if it worth the LA 7 for it.

[Ellowryn]

Just remember with gestalt you are supposed to have an active and a passive side. This is because even if you are a 20 Wizard/Cleric you still only have 1 swift, move, and standard action (without shenanigans). So if you have your cleric side be whats important i.e active the its fine to load up the other passive side with RHD, LA, and Classes to compliment your active side without detracting from it. Also, for the sake of a better starting build, what level are you starting?

[adriana]

Just remember with gestalt you are supposed to have an active and a passive side. This is because even if you are a 20 Wizard/Cleric you still only have 1 swift, move, and standard action (without shenanigans). So if you have your cleric side be whats important i.e active the its fine to load up the other passive side with RHD, LA, and Classes to compliment your active side without detracting from it. Also, for the sake of a better starting build, what level are you starting?

lv 7. I group with shadowseve and we were wiped by a moronic dm who wiped us at lv 7 with 2 lv 20 npcs. We're starting at lv 7 with a new dm. He's more experienced and is wanting to let us gestalt. He's wanting our concept tomorrow so he can finish planning and prepare individual story lines for each of us.

[adriana]

I may just take the la+7 on the gestalt side. though that does significantly weaken the dragonfire adept so I may need to choose another class on the gestalt side. Dragonfire adept added a lot of flavor to my build but i dunno if it's worth only having 13 lvs of it.

[Ellowryn]

Ah, your part of THAT group.

Yeah with 7 LA at that point you will probably want to look at PrCs or dips to try and strengthen your cleric side.

[adriana]

Ah, your part of THAT group.

Yeah with 7 LA at that point you will probably want to look at PrCs or dips to try and strengthen your cleric side.

what do you mean by part of THAT group? My cleric side has 18 out of 20 casting so it's not that bad. I'm not sure how I could strengthen it with out ditching RKV. what did you have in mind?

[shadowseve]

Ah, your part of THAT group.

Yeah with 7 LA at that point you will probably want to look at PrCs or dips to try and strengthen your cleric side.



??? so.... like Adriana said what is meant by that?

[LTwerewolf]

would you not need the human feat you mentioned above for necroopolitin since half dragon changes you to dragon?

the dracolitch has me drooling a bit. I'm just not sure if it worth the LA 7 for it.

Yes, you still need that feat, my explanation there was that you qualify for the feat if your second half was human.

[adriana]

Yes, you still need that feat, my explanation there was that you qualify for the feat if your second half was human.

That's what I thought.

I think I'll go with half dragon and necropolitan over the dracolich. I have two flaws.. I can burn one for that feat.
I just don't think my dm would allow the dracolitch and the LA+ 7 is harsh. It's easier to make up the LA 3 and the one level lost from necropolitan. I think I can convince him to allow spellstiching and the dread necromancer boosts mentioned above.

This way i can still keep the dragonfire adept on the other side.

thanks for that tip.

[LTwerewolf]

That's what I thought.

I think I'll go with half dragon and necropolitan over the dracolich. I have two flaws.. I can burn one for that feat.
I just don't think my dm would allow the dracolitch and the LA+ 7 is harsh. It's easier to make up the LA 3 and the one level lost from necropolitan. I think I can convince him to allow spellstiching and the dread necromancer boosts mentioned above.

This way i can still keep the dragonfire adept on the other side.

thanks for that tip.

What is it about dragonfire adept that you're wanting? A lot of the class is about using your actions, and the standard rule of thumb is that in gestalt you want one side active and one side passive. With cleric and dragonfire adept, you're getting 2 pretty active classes.

[adriana]

What is it about dragonfire adept that you're wanting? A lot of the class is about using your actions, and the standard rule of thumb is that in gestalt you want one side active and one side passive. With cleric and dragonfire adept, you're getting 2 pretty active classes.

someone suggested it to me and it seemed to fit the concept. If you have any suggestions I'm all ears.

[LTwerewolf]

someone suggested it to me and it seemed to fit the concept. If you have any suggestions I'm all ears.

Would need more on the concept really to pick a good fit for you. If the dragonfire adept part is just because you want it to feel more dragon-y then I'd say sorcerer would actually be better. You already have the melee and power from half dragon and cleric, so you're just missing the arcane side of it. Ironically you'll end up better at both than a dragon equal to your level.

Also keep in mind the fun part of human heritage necropolitans: you're not undead type. This is both good and bad. Undead only spells won't work on you, and since positive energy damage to undead is done on a spell by spell basis, while negative energy heals undead as a blanket statement in the type (keep in mind, human heritage states "In either case, you retain any other subtypes you had (such as orc or extraplanar), and you retain any traits common to all creatures of your original type (such as darkvision).) means that you heal from both positive and negative energy.

Traits you still keep:


No Constitution score.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.
Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.
Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.


Emphasis mine.

[adriana]

Would need more on the concept really to pick a good fit for you. If the dragonfire adept part is just because you want it to feel more dragon-y then I'd say sorcerer would actually be better. You already have the melee and power from half dragon and cleric, so you're just missing the arcane side of it. Ironically you'll end up better at both than a dragon equal to your level.

Also keep in mind the fun part of human heritage necropolitans: you're not undead type. This is both good and bad. Undead only spells won't work on you, and since positive energy damage to undead is done on a spell by spell basis, while negative energy heals undead as a blanket statement in the type (keep in mind, human heritage states "In either case, you retain any other subtypes you had (such as orc or extraplanar), and you retain any traits common to all creatures of your original type (such as darkvision).) means that you heal from both positive and negative energy.

Traits you still keep:


No Constitution score.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.
Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.
Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.


Emphasis mine.

my origninal concept was a bad ass necro cleric who happened to be either a half shadow dragon or necropolitan. She is highly devoted to her cause and very religious hence the cleric and crusader. I need her to hang tough in melee(again hence the cleric RKV and crusader.) I couln't come up with a theme for the gestalt side so someone suggested the dragonfire adept and so I adapted it since I didn't have anything better.

My original plan was cleric 5/RKV 10/contemplative 5// crusader 5 something. I just couldn't figure out the something part so someone said dragonfire adept.

[Zanos]

Necropolitan if you can say you were created by a Dread Necromancer 8+ with all the Corpsecrafter line of feats in the area of a Fell Energy Desecrate with an evil altar present. That will give you the following benefits, in addition to the normal Necropolitan benefits:

+4 Enhancement bonus to Strength and Dexterity
+4 Turn Resistance
+1d6 cold damage on natural weapon attacks
+2 natural armor
+4 initiative
+10 ft. to your base land speed
+10 hit points per level
The corpsecrafter line all only apply to undead created with necromancy spells, so you can't apply them to a necropolitan.

More on topic, I find dragonblooded sorcerers to be a lot of fun, depending on what you want to do. A lot of the spells that give perks for being dragonblooded are very good.

[adriana]

I'm guessing I could take 2 more levels of contmplative on the gestalt side to make up for the two levels I'd miss on the rkv side as well. that way I could get 20 lv cleric casting.

edit
nvm I can't do that due to prestige on both sides issue.

[Ellowryn]

??? so.... like Adriana said what is meant by that?

Sorry, there was a thread here about a week ago, http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?350901-TPW-got-a-new-DM-now-Needing-help-with-Nymph-druid-Gestalt-concept, that i remember cause of the sheer ridiculousness of the situation you were in.

And yes, cleric and RNV are very melee oriented and powerful and make good use of what you want. The problem is as has been pointed out is you can't do everything at once. You can attack, cast a spell, or use your breath weapon in a round, without serious bending/ignoring/side-stepping the rules which you probably don't want to do.

Go with the Half-Dragon Necropolitan via the human heritage feat and for your 6th feat take Dragon Breath from Races of the Dragon, which will allow you to use your breath weapon every 1d4 rounds. This frees up your other side to take more crusader and then you can use your feats to improve/modify your natural breath weapon.

[adriana]

Sorry, there was a thread here about a week ago, http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?350901-TPW-got-a-new-DM-now-Needing-help-with-Nymph-druid-Gestalt-concept, that i remember cause of the sheer ridiculousness of the situation you were in.

And yes, cleric and RNV are very melee oriented and powerful and make good use of what you want. The problem is as has been pointed out is you can't do everything at once. You can attack, cast a spell, or use your breath weapon in a round, without serious bending/ignoring/side-stepping the rules which you probably don't want to do.

Go with the Half-Dragon Necropolitan via the human heritage feat and for your 6th feat take Dragon Breath from Races of the Dragon, which will allow you to use your breath weapon every 1d4 rounds. This frees up your other side to take more crusader and then you can use your feats to improve/modify your natural breath weapon.

So your saying on the gestalt side

crusader 5/ something 10/ crusader 5. I like that. But what to use in the middle? I had planned on taking dragon breath and some meta dragon breathe feats.

[Ellowryn]

Well, cleric or contemplative 2 to get 20th level cleric casting is important. Crusader is a good filler, there is nothing with getting more of it.

[LTwerewolf]

my origninal concept was a bad ass necro cleric who happened to be either a half shadow dragon or necropolitan. She is highly devoted to her cause and very religious hence the cleric and crusader. I need her to hang tough in melee(again hence the cleric RKV and crusader.) I couln't come up with a theme for the gestalt side so someone suggested the dragonfire adept and so I adapted it since I didn't have anything better.

My original plan was cleric 5/RKV 10/contemplative 5// crusader 5 something. I just couldn't figure out the something part so someone said dragonfire adept.

You can try some warlock on for size. Use the eldritch claws feat and gain damage based on the eldritch blast. This can be your weapon for maneuvers. A lenient DM would also let that little extra damage from your claw attacks (from being a half-dragon) add on there too. Technically the feat says unarmed strike damage, not natural weapon damage, but that's an incredibly minor handwave when you're talking about 1 damage. Other than that, you can keep the rest of the invocations known to passive 24 hour buffs.

You can try on some hexblade as well. Full BAB, so the few that you lose from the other side aren't really a big deal. You can also cast your spells in armor, get cha to saves vs spells, and with a reasonable cha for turn/rebuke, you can also curse. Mettle which is the will/fort version of evasion, a familiar (improved obviously better) that also has a high BaB and good chunk of hp that can be a flanking buddy.

You can still go sorcerer and instead of wearing heavy armor, use spells to protect yourself. You know the giantitp saying: the best armor is spells. You go further into the "hey I'm a dragon" feel, while getting another chunk of power on top of it. Lot of dragonblood bonuses to spells out there if you want to take advantage of it. If you're really shooting for armor, you can take battle sorcerer which casts in light armor. You can take the battle caster feat on top of that and cast without failure in mithral full plate. Because hey why not?

Psion pretty much copies a good chunk of what I had to say for sorcerer minus the dragonblooded bonuses. No feat required for full plate casting and built in silent and still spell.

There's bard, which has some of the capabilities of the sorcerer (and almost identical if you decide to go sublime chord) but also gives you the one thing you're not already good at: skills. Pump out even a mild amount of effort on inspire courage and go for dragonfire inspiration. You may even get your dm to allow you to use a different energy type since you're a different parentage. It's not directly in the rules, but it's not a huge leap. They have an energy drain breath weapon, so you can request negative energy damage on the inspiration.

If you're content with your casting abilities, you can dump in some levels in some of the more mundane, such as whirling frenzy barbarian, a dip in fighter possibly. Even marshal and dragon shaman have their uses when it comes to gestalt. There's something somewhere that I don't recall (hopefully someone else can recall for me) that says something about dragon type and dragon auras scaling even without a ton of levels in the class.

[adriana]

Well, cleric or contemplative 2 to get 20th level cleric casting is important. Crusader is a good filler, there is nothing with getting more of it.

We I could go cleric 2 on the gestalt side and just time it so I take it during the levels where the RKV wouldn't get divine casting.

So that is crusader5/cleric 1/something 4/cleric 1/something 4/crusader 5

[adriana]

You can try some warlock on for size. Use the eldritch claws feat and gain damage based on the eldritch blast. This can be your weapon for maneuvers. A lenient DM would also let that little extra damage from your claw attacks (from being a half-dragon) add on there too. Technically the feat says unarmed strike damage, not natural weapon damage, but that's an incredibly minor handwave when you're talking about 1 damage. Other than that, you can keep the rest of the invocations known to passive 24 hour buffs.

You can try on some hexblade as well. Full BAB, so the few that you lose from the other side aren't really a big deal. You can also cast your spells in armor, get cha to saves vs spells, and with a reasonable cha for turn/rebuke, you can also curse. Mettle which is the will/fort version of evasion, a familiar (improved obviously better) that also has a high BaB and good chunk of hp that can be a flanking buddy.

You can still go sorcerer and instead of wearing heavy armor, use spells to protect yourself. You know the giantitp saying: the best armor is spells. You go further into the "hey I'm a dragon" feel, while getting another chunk of power on top of it. Lot of dragonblood bonuses to spells out there if you want to take advantage of it. If you're really shooting for armor, you can take battle sorcerer which casts in light armor. You can take the battle caster feat on top of that and cast without failure in mithral full plate. Because hey why not?

Psion pretty much copies a good chunk of what I had to say for sorcerer minus the dragonblooded bonuses. No feat required for full plate casting and built in silent and still spell.

There's bard, which has some of the capabilities of the sorcerer (and almost identical if you decide to go sublime chord) but also gives you the one thing you're not already good at: skills. Pump out even a mild amount of effort on inspire courage and go for dragonfire inspiration. You may even get your dm to allow you to use a different energy type since you're a different parentage. It's not directly in the rules, but it's not a huge leap. They have an energy drain breath weapon, so you can request negative energy damage on the inspiration.

If you're content with your casting abilities, you can dump in some levels in some of the more mundane, such as whirling frenzy barbarian, a dip in fighter possibly. Even marshal and dragon shaman have their uses when it comes to gestalt. There's something somewhere that I don't recall (hopefully someone else can recall for me) that says something about dragon type and dragon auras scaling even without a ton of levels in the class.


I'm content in taking two more levels of cleric on the gestalt side to get full 20 cleric casting, plenty of casting for me. More crusader fits her style. I just need 8 levels of something else to fill the "void"

Edit:
I don't know if this'll help but here is the rest of the party.

Wizard 1/mindbender 1/ wizard 8/ incantatrix 10// factotum 20.

druid 5/planar shepherd 10/ druid 5// factotum 10/swordsage 5/warshaper 5

Crusader16/warblade4//cloistered cleric 10/contemplative 10.

[LTwerewolf]

I'm content in taking two more levels of cleric on the gestalt side to get full 20 cleric casting, plenty of casting for me. More crusader fits her style. I just need 8 levels of something else to fill the "void"

Pick up some whirling frenzy barbarian, and a dip in marshal or dragon shaman for some passive group buffs. Makes you better at what you do without you really needing to do anything.

[Ellowryn]

A Barbarian dip is fine if you dont mind losing the ability to cast during its effect and you can squeeze in an Extra Rage feat otherwise the bonuse attack is only 1/day, the aforementioned Marshal or Dragon Shaman dip for some nice auras to bolster your allies and undead minions would not steer you wrong. A bard dip probably wont help unless you plan to take most of your other side as bard due to the slow scaling of Inspire Courage (even with items). Warlock can net you some useful SLA such as all day flight or dimension hop and the ability to take 10 on Use Magic Device if you think it is worth it.

Edit: and partially swordsaged >:(

[adriana]

Pick up some whirling frenzy barbarian, and a dip in marshal or dragon shaman for some passive group buffs. Makes you better at what you do without you really needing to do anything.

I'll look at all three of those.

I also listed my companions and what they're doing.

my gestalt build so far will be

crusader 5/cleric 1/ somthing 4/cleric 1/something 4/ crusader 5. of those builds you selected where should I stick what?

[adriana]

A Barbarian dip is fine if you dont mind losing the ability to cast during its effect and you can squeeze in an Extra Rage feat otherwise the bonuse attack is only 1/day, the aforementioned Marshal or Dragon Shaman dip for some nice auras to bolster your allies and undead minions would not steer you wrong. A bard dip probably wont help unless you plan to take most of your other side as bard due to the slow scaling of Inspire Courage (even with items). Warlock can net you some useful SLA such as all day flight or dimension hop and the ability to take 10 on Use Magic Device if you think it is worth it.

Edit: and partially swordsaged >:(

I would rather not go barbarian. Dragon shaman looks awesome as it def plays into the whole dragon aspect better than the dragonfire adept mentioned by someone else.


Edit 2: lol

I actually may go crusader5/cleric 1/dragon shaman 4/cleric 1/dragon shaman 4/crusader 5

[Ellowryn]

Dont forget about your LA, unless the DM is willing to waive it. So assuming not you will end up (Grouping up to show total amount) Half-Dragon 3/Crusader 10/Cleric 2/ Something 5.

Actually, upon double checking RNV it seems it doesn't progress your Rebuke Undead so you might want to grab a class like Paragnostic Apostle to advance it. Remember your turn unead, command undead, and animate dead are all separate pools so you shouldn't neglect any of them.

[adriana]

Dont forget about your LA, unless the DM is willing to waive it. So assuming not you will end up (Grouping up to show total amount) Half-Dragon 3/Crusader 10/Cleric 2/ Something 5.

Actually, upon double checking RNV it seems it doesn't progress your Rebuke Undead so you might want to grab a class like Paragnostic Apostle to advance it. Remember your turn unead, command undead, and animate dead are all separate pools so you shouldn't neglect any of them.

we're doing an LA buy off. You're absiutly right about the RKV. Ugh.

I would either have to give up levels of RKV for that prc or give up 5 levels of crusader. damn. So would RKV still be worth it?

You would think it would advance your rebuking since it's part of the class mechanics. O.o

[adriana]

Now that you mention it neither does contemplative. So now this messes the whole build up. Damn it. So now the build will be

cleric 5/ RKV 10(may be dropped) Cleric5// crusader5/something 10/ crusader 5. UGH. that leaves me with half of my rebuke casting. You know I may just drop RKV

So it would be Cleric 20// crusader 5/ dragon shaman 10/crusader 10 maybe. I don't want to lose my rebuke nor my full casting.

[Ellowryn]

Not really, your build could end up like this if you want Cleric 5/RNV 10/Cleric 5//Crusader 5/Cleric 10/Crusader 5. 9th level cleric casting, 9th level Maneuvers, with no loss to Rebuke Undead.

As mentioned before Paragnistic Apostle is also an alternative to 5 levels of cleric, giving you such abilities as Mind over Body: Your effective caster level increases by 1 when you cast conjuration (healing) spells or transmutation spells that grant ability bonuses or penalties. (Knowledge [nature or religion] 7 ranks) and See through the Veil: Whenever you cast a necromantic spell that targets undead, the save DC increases by 1. In addition, your effective turning level increases by 2, if you possess the ability to turn or rebuke undead. (Knowledge [religion] 7 ranks).

[adriana]

Not really, your build could end up like this if you want Cleric 5/RNV 10/Cleric 5//Crusader 5/Cleric 10/Crusader 5. 9th level cleric casting, 9th level Maneuvers, with no loss to Rebuke Undead.

As mentioned before Paragnistic Apostle is also an alternative to 5 levels of cleric, giving you such abilities as Mind over Body: Your effective caster level increases by 1 when you cast conjuration (healing) spells or transmutation spells that grant ability bonuses or penalties. (Knowledge [nature or religion] 7 ranks) and See through the Veil: Whenever you cast a necromantic spell that targets undead, the save DC increases by 1. In addition, your effective turning level increases by 2, if you possess the ability to turn or rebuke undead. (Knowledge [religion] 7 ranks).

would that not be awkward have two divine casting classes going at once? I know they don't stact for caster level purposes but I guess that could work

Maybe cleric 5/ RKV 10/ cleric 5//crusader 5/cleric 5/ Paragnistic Apostle 5/ crusader 5. That might work. though a little awkward with both RKV and cleric going at the same time. But def better than the alternative.

[Ellowryn]

Not much you can do about it, off the top of my head i cant think of any class that advances Turn/Rebuke without advancing at least some caster level. You are just going to have to eat the overlap.

[adriana]

Not much you can do about it, off the top of my head i cant think of any class that advances Turn/Rebuke without advancing at least some caster level. You are just going to have to eat the overlap.

I'm fine with that. I think you just gave me the best build so far that accomplishes my first goal: a kick ass melee necro cleric.

with the human heritage half dragon necropolitan could I still get spellstitched? I'm confused how I would not have the undead type. the human heritage turns my dragon type to human type, then wouldn't the necropolitan turn me into undead?

[LTwerewolf]

we're doing an LA buy off. You're absiutly right about the RKV. Ugh.

I would either have to give up levels of RKV for that prc or give up 5 levels of crusader. damn. So would RKV still be worth it?

You would think it would advance your rebuking since it's part of the class mechanics. O.o

IMO rkv is good for single builds. Gestalt pretty much gives you what it would have anyhow. Just make sure you pick up a class that gives you good BAB when you wouldn't otherwise get it.

[adriana]

IMO rkv is good for single builds. Gestalt pretty much gives you what it would have anyhow. Just make sure you pick up a class that gives you good BAB when you wouldn't otherwise get it.


I'm going to be pulling some DMM shenanigans so I'll have full BAB.

I think I'm set build wise. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the whole necropolitan concept. like I said wouldn't adding the necropolitan last give me undead type? Or does the feat overule both the dragon type and undead type?

[LTwerewolf]

I'm going to be pulling some DMM shenanigans so I'll have full BAB.

I think I'm set build wise. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the whole necropolitan concept. like I said wouldn't adding the necropolitan last give me undead type? Or does the feat overule both the dragon type and undead type?

Feat takes precedence because you have to. If you disregard the feat, you can't be a necropolitan.

[adriana]

Feat takes precedence because you have to. If you disregard the feat, you can't be a necropolitan. That makes sense.

Last question can you still get spellstitched even with human heritage? My guess is no since your subtype is now human and not undead.

[LTwerewolf]

That makes sense.

Last question can you still get spellstitched even with human heritage? My guess is no since your subtype is now human and not undead.

There's an argument that you should still be able to be spellstitched since you retain all the traits. It's a reasonable assumption on a relatively murky rule. Strictly speaking though, it wouldn't work; although strictly speaking spellstitched doesn't have a listed LA on it and thus isn't suited for player use anyhow.

[adriana]

There's an argument that you should still be able to be spellstitched since you retain all the traits. It's a reasonable assumption on a relatively murky rule. Strictly speaking though, it wouldn't work; although strictly speaking spellstitched doesn't have a listed LA on it and thus isn't suited for player use anyhow. that's what I wanted to know. I'll still being it up to the DM and let him rule. Though it'll probably not do it. Thanks guys for this.