how come no one want to play the priest/cleric

[duburu]

i dont know why. but all my dnd game is alway with a group of fighter ranger and mage and there was never once a healer. i get it that no one want to be the walking health kit but....you can make it work somehow. how do you make a kickass cleric? because i want to be one

[Immabozo]

You can certainly make one and play it if that is what you want to do, but it is considered to be sub par and in-combat healing, with the exception of the spell "heal" is considered a waste of an action.

Although, ironically, there is a manuver in TOB for the Crusader , I think it is (which is a tank) that is considered the only other good heal, that I have heard of anyway.

[busterswd]

You're going to get a LOT of help from this forum as to how to play a cleric effectively. In a nutshell, though, part of the design philosophy behind clerics (and druids) is that people dislike playing healers, so Wizards made them really, really strong. The best way to play a cleric is generally to not get in the mindset that you're a walking box of bandaids; don't refuse to heal your party members when they need it, but there is a lot to be said for using your spells to buff your party to end combat faster, as opposed to using healing during combat and drawing it out.

[Rubik]

A magic Cure stick and a magical toilet paper roll for status effect mitigation can do just as well as a cleric. So tell the party to pitch in to get their healing on and start focusing on cleric buffs (preferably Persisted via Divine Metamagic).

[Zombulian]

You're going to get a LOT of help from this forum as to how to play a cleric effectively. In a nutshell, though, part of the design philosophy behind clerics (and druids) is that people dislike playing healers, so Wizards made them really, really strong. The best way to play a cleric is generally to not get in the mindset that you're a walking box of bandaids; don't refuse to heal your party members when they need it, but there is a lot to be said for using your spells to buff your party to end combat faster, as opposed to using healing during combat and drawing it out.

The man(?) speaks truth. While having access to healing spells, Clerics are the kings of buffing and can sometimes even do well with battlefield control. A well buffed Cleric can easily become a better fighter than the Fighter.
Just look up Divine Power and Righteous Might.

[Pex]

I play the Cleric a lot. Oracle in Pathfinder. What people who don't need to understand is that the Cleric can and should be doing things other than healing. It depends on build but a cleric can be a warrior, a "wizard", a "bard" or combination thereof. He can hack away against the enemy, destroy them with spells, or buff the party to awesomeness.

Healing is important. While it's not the only thing the cleric should be doing it is important he does some. That is where the trouble lies because some people just really don't appreciate how important that is. There's no "glory" in it. In one of my group's Pathfinder games I play an Oracle of Life. This is a healing cleric on steroids. I do a lot of buffing and the occasional attack spell, but healing is a major focus of the character. He is effective enough to heal during combat. Another player had kept track. During combat I've effectively doubled or tripled everyone's hit points. That is a big deal. Because I specialized so heavily on defense in combat tactics via healing, everyone else in the party can afford to be more aggressive on offense. The DM had to compensate because we were making mincemeat of the bad guys. He overcompensated to the point where he had to fudge in obviousness to avoid a TPK. We talked to him about that, but that's besides the point. Everyone in the party knows and appreciates how effective my character is in the party without attacking with a morningstar or casting Bestow Curse.

Contrast to another campaign where I'm playing an Oracle of Dark Tapestry. That character I'm purposely building as a warrior. He still has and uses his magic power with his luck Revelations as a Dual Cursed and spells, but his main strategy is to self buff with Revelations and spells then hack away. He does well enough on the front lines with the Barbarian and Fighter. Everyone has to be more cautious because we don't have the healing power. This is not a bad thing. It's just a noticeable difference that has us appreciate the effect my Oracle of Life has in the other campaign. Still, for this game I'm playing a "cleric" who is an effective warrior, getting lots of "glory" with kills of bad guys. I also have the luxury of versatility. Every few combats one comes up I know I have to go to spellcaster mode be a support cleric, not a warrior. Buff party members, attacks spells, the occasional emergency healing. Indeed, just last Sunday for our last combat of the day I did that. We fought some demons, and I buffed party members with Protection From Evil. The +2 to saving throws made all the difference.

[Eldariel]

Honestly, Cleric can be basically anything from a semi-arcane caster to a buffer to a warrior god to a summoner to...well, whatever. It can even be multiples of those things at the same time. It's just a matter of picking the right spells, and building towards whatever you want to be. More sources than the Core 3 books increase the options you have available, of course, but even with just those three, a Cleric can cover a large number of roles admirably. It's not as blatantly insane a class as Druid but it's got comparable power.

[Red Fel]

There is a term you will find in these forums, "CoDzilla." This is in reference to the fact that Clerics and Druids, based on their native abilities, have the capacity to occupy basically any role in the party. Caster. Buffer. Melee. Face. Even the mighty Wizard, revered in these forums as a pinnacle of power, has to alter itself with spells to do what a Cleric's melee chassis (or a Druid's Wild Shape) can do.

Welcome to the Cleric. Repeat the Cleric Mantra with me.


I am not a healbot.

I am a class with many talents.

I can cast spells that deflate the Wizard's ego.

I can melee better than the Fighter.

I can use buffs that make the Monk relevant.

I will not be reduced to a walking band-aid.

Now, as to "how do I cleric," that depends entirely on what you want to do. You want to kick butt and take Truenames? There are many ways, my son, many ways. Ask away; you have come to the right forum.

[Angelalex242]

Of all the miracles a Cleric can do, surely there is none greater then making monks relevant. Only one with the power of the gods could ever hope to do such a thing.

(It's slightly amazing Monks aren't tier 6. They must be at the very bottom of Tier 5, I suppose.)

[HunterOfJello]

(It's slightly amazing Monks aren't tier 6. They must be at the very bottom of Tier 5, I suppose.)

Ah, but you misunderstand good sir! The monk is not so bad as you think. It is merely deceptive in its virtues. What many fail to comprehend is that the monk is a great addition to any party that is not looking for someone who will be useful at combat. Why, the monk makes a great scout, diplomat, and all around avoider of death.

The monk can avoid the worst of magical traps and spells dodging their ranged touch attacks, evading their fireballs, and withstanding their enchantments. Who needs a rogue when they have their own monk trap springer around? This is all not to mention the fact that if the group should run afoul of possible poisons or diseases, your monk friend shall be the first to step forward and take that burden upon himself. Finally, if worst comes to worst (as it most assuredly will for you someday), you can always opt to jump onto your faithful monk's back as they run away as fast as he can from the dangerous monsters that plague you. What else is such a speedy fellow to put on his back when he wears no armor and weapons?

The intelligent monk is one who can do all of these things and more! If you are wise then you shall add one to your adventuring party as soon as possible.

[atomicwaffle]

don't think of a cleric as a healbot (that would be the druid). Think of a cleric as the person with MORE MOTIVATION THAN ANYONE ELSE. You have a literal direct connection to your god that gives you powers. Your options are varied? Do you wish to spread the influence of your god? Do you wish to rid the world of evil? Perhaps you want to find a deeper meaning to existence. Maybe you just want to heal the world (or, if you're evil, put it out of its misery). Maybe you're motivated to convert your party members to your god by showing them his/her strength. "Yeah, you're back from the brink of death...all Kord. Isn't he baller?" You are learned. You have knowledge of religion, and the planes, and arcana.

[HunterOfJello]

(Apologies for double post, but this one actually addresses the thread topic itself.)

People avoid the cleric class because while the abilities they possess look helpful, they don't look as particularly helpful to the player playing the character. Without a very wide range of knowledge on builds, items, spells from splatbooks, and more the cleric will easily seem quite bland.

The cleric isn't actually a bland class at all and has a very wide range of possibilities available to it if you choose your path wisely. I am currently building a lvl 13 cleric who can wild shape as a level 10 druid, summon nature's ally spontaneous, and has a pseudo-animal companion. His build is based around being wild shaped all the time and having items and persistent spells on him that allow him to make the most of it.

What does all of this complexity to the build mean? I can play a funky fake druid while also having perfect level 13 cleric spellcasting.

If I didn't have the knowledge of all the things required to set this thing up, then the cleric could easily seem bland because vanilla clerics generally are. You have to put in the extra effort to spice them up and then stick their amazing spell list and spells per day on top of the rest.

[Dr.Gara]

don't think of a cleric as a healbot (that would be the druid).

No. The term is "Cleric or Druid Zilla," and for a very good reason. Druids are very powerful in their own right, and relegating them to the walking box of bandaids is as big of a mistake as relegating a cleric to the chore.

[iceman10058]

well, the cleric can be a powerful caster, out blasting the wizard and buffing the party to godly levels, all while keeping up with the fighter in melee. this is, however difficult to do without the know how to do it or the right source materials. in the end, people that play them too much, like playing any class too much, get bored with playing the same thing over and over and sadly not many people like playing clerics.

[Angelalex242]

Well, the cleric/druid are right up there with the Wizard in Tier 1, and beyond the poor Tier 2 Sorcerer.

Indeed, the last matchup between wizard and cleric I saw forced the cleric to retreat, but the wizard couldn't kill the cleric either.

And...I dunno if those 'hidden virtues' of the monk are actually enough to get him out of Tier 6. :P

[LTwerewolf]

Well, the cleric/druid are right up there with the Wizard in Tier 1, and beyond the poor Tier 2 Sorcerer.

Indeed, the last matchup between wizard and cleric I saw forced the cleric to retreat, but the wizard couldn't kill the cleric either.

And...I dunno if those 'hidden virtues' of the monk are actually enough to get him out of Tier 6. :P

Last matchup I saw had the druid winning handily, then the cleric coming in second, with the wizard just barely falling short.

[Angelalex242]

Druid comes in third because the other 2 keep chain gating Solars, and the Druid hasn't got anything powerful enough to summon that'll keep up.

[JusticeZero]

There's actually two extremes that both apply.
One, people feel like they're going to be underpowered and stuck bandaging up the party while they do fun stuff. This is from people who don't know how to play a cleric.
Two, when you know how to play a Cleric well, they're too powerful to hang with the rest of the usual party. At a certain point, a halfway decently played Cleric begins to realize that the world is cardboard, and that if they reveal that, that the game is going to fall apart. I know I did once, and the game fell apart as it turned into a string of all but Cosmic scale battles between me and the ambush of the week as the B-listers cowered and tried not to get killed by the scatter. Were there a Druid or a Wizard with us, they could have fought by my side. A few other classes, well built, could have backed us up. None of them are the ones who we had; instead, we had a bunch of Rogues and Fighters and Monks and Barbarians and the like. They hit hard and have lots of hp. Unimportant when everything being thrown around is save or die/suck and the battlefield is changing radically every round. After a couple of sessions of everyone else feeling unimportant while I tried not to die against the GM's attempts to punish me for being an evil powergamer for using some buffs and whatnot, they stopped playing.
I love playing support. But I can't play Cleric anymore. Kind've puts me in a bind if someone says "Core only".

[Coidzor]

For all your needs about understanding (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1520.0)healing (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2710.0)in D&D 3.5. Or at least these two handbooks should cover most of it.

There's a Cleric Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1238.0)which has some good general purpose advice.

Knowledge is Power, and if all someone knows is that clerics are healbitches, well, they're not going to want to play one unless they have a very particular personality. And if it's a position that a group feels they have to force onto someone, well, no one likes drawing the short straw unless they know better.

Or if the DM doesn't understand the game and thinks that they have to nerf everything about the cleric to force it to confirm to their preconceptions about what a proper healbitch looks like... Well, that's also less than pleasant.

[Chronos]

The key is your spontaneous healing class ability. Naively, a lot of people think that this puts the cleric squarely into the healbot box. On the contrary, it frees you. In-combat healing is very rarely worthwhile, and you can almost always fill all of your healing needs with just a cheap wand that you use outside of combat. But in that rare situation where it is worth spending your spell slots on healing... You can do it. Fill up all of your spell slots with spells that you're likely to actually make use of, but if one of those rare situations come up, you can do it, without having to waste any planning whatsoever on making it possible.

While we're at it, you also shouldn't use spell slots for the status-condition-fixing spells. Get those on scrolls: You hope never to need those spells, and usually won't, but in the rare case that you do, you generally need it Right Now. If you want to save some money and have a little downtime, you can make them yourself. You don't even need the Scribe Scroll feat: Just cooperate with the party's wizard, since he gets Scribe Scroll for free.