Wu jenjenny

[Val666]

Hello guys, does anyone knows about some good wu jen builds? I know there are some with Jade Phoenix Mage and stuff.
Got a girl friend who wants to play a Wu Jen (her name is Jenny) so....enlight me :B

[TSED]

Just about any standard wizard guide should work. The spell lists are a little different, and you probably want to PrC out at some point soon (but, unlike the wizard, not TOO soon!). If you know what to look for in a spell you'll be fine.

Also, Wu Jen make great gishes if you're higher level due to a number of Wu Jen specific spells. At lower and medium levels, which (in my experience) most play revolves around, they are not AS good at gishing it up.

[Khedrac]

Also take a look at this: The Wu Jen Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?246975)

[Val666]

Just about any standard wizard guide should work. The spell lists are a little different, and you probably want to PrC out at some point soon (but, unlike the wizard, not TOO soon!). If you know what to look for in a spell you'll be fine.

Also, Wu Jen make great gishes if you're higher level due to a number of Wu Jen specific spells. At lower and medium levels, which (in my experience) most play revolves around, they are not AS good at gishing it up.

Thanks for that advice. I also thought about playing one as a battlefield control at early levels, then gishing it up.


Also take a look at this: The Wu Jen Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?246975)

I've already took a look at it but couldnt find any really useful....

[Aharon]

They get Spirit Binding instead of Planar Binding, which gives access to several very good monsters. It's pretty high-op, though (I haven't played in any IRL group yet that allowed Planar Binding or similar shenanigans).

[ben-zayb]

She can be a master of the unseen hand, full attacking with 21 weapons using CL for BAB, as a standard action.

[Vaz]

ne of their unique tricks is Body Outside Body. This normally is of limited use, due to its short duration and lack of spellcasting. However if you can Gish, through Jade Phoenix or use Psionics (through Cerebremancer theurge say) or SLA's (Archmage) it becomes quite fun.

[WhamBamSam]

She can be a master of the unseen hand, full attacking with 21 weapons using CL for BAB, as a standard action.Master of the Unseen Hand doesn't advance casting and is therefore Bad For Casters.

Wu Jen have a T1 spell list, but it's on the low end of T1, and could use some spell adders. Arcane Disciple is a good one if you can afford the Wis requirement. Wyrm Wizard 2 costs you a caster level, but gives you any spell off of any list, which might be worth it.

Jade Phoenix Mage Wu Jen builds are indeed a lot of fun, though you're going to lose some caster levels. You'll either be able to get 9th level maneuvers or 9th level spells, but not both. The big 9th level spells Wu Jen/JPM trick is to use Transcend Mortality, then blow yourself up with Emerald Immolation before the negative effects kick in. A Wu Jen that gets 9th level maneuvers instead will be weaker, but there are some fun things they can do as well. For one thing, Body Outside Body clones can use maneuvers, so War Master's Charge gets pretty fun. If you can get your hands on Tornado Throw, then that plus a Polymorph into a Mercury Dragon equals pain, and Polymorph (Mercury Dragon)+Body Outside Body+Tornado Throw x5 is even better. If you can find a way to know Greater Celerity or Lesser Celerity, you can pump the Tornado Throw check even higher for one of your clones by using War Master's Charge or Order Forged From Chaos during the clone's turn to give it extra movement.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe Body Outside Body clones can use SLAs even though they can't cast spells. So if you go Archmage, or have SLAs some other way, you can give your duplicates more things to do. Even if SLAs don't work, Supernatural Transformation is a thing (though that depends what exactly counts as an innate spell-like ability). Body Outside Body as a (Su) or (Sp) ability should mean infinite clones.

It may seem like I'm fixated on one spell, but it is one of the few really unique ones that Wu Jen have (Giant Size is also a pretty great buff). Other than that, as others have said, they're a somewhat less powerful (though still probably T1), but flavorful and interesting Wizard reskin.

[Val666]

Jade Phoenix Mage Wu Jen builds are indeed a lot of fun, though you're going to lose some caster levels. You'll either be able to get 9th level maneuvers or 9th level spells, but not both. The big 9th level spells Wu Jen/JPM trick is to use Transcend Mortality, then blow yourself up with Emerald Immolation before the negative effects kick in. A Wu Jen that gets 9th level maneuvers instead will be weaker, but there are some fun things they can do as well. For one thing, Body Outside Body clones can use maneuvers, so War Master's Charge gets pretty fun. If you can get your hands on Tornado Throw, then that plus a Polymorph into a Mercury Dragon equals pain, and Polymorph (Mercury Dragon)+Body Outside Body+Tornado Throw x5 is even better. If you can find a way to know Greater Celerity or Lesser Celerity, you can pump the Tornado Throw check even higher for one of your clones by using War Master's Charge or Order Forged From Chaos during the clone's turn to give it extra movement.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe Body Outside Body clones can use SLAs even though they can't cast spells. So if you go Archmage, or have SLAs some other way, you can give your duplicates more things to do. Even if SLAs don't work, Supernatural Transformation is a thing (though that depends what exactly counts as an innate spell-like ability). Body Outside Body as a (Su) or (Sp) ability should mean infinite clones.

It may seem like I'm fixated on one spell, but it is one of the few really unique ones that Wu Jen have (Giant Size is also a pretty great buff). Other than that, as others have said, they're a somewhat less powerful (though still probably T1), but flavorful and interesting Wizard reskin.

Holy molly, I've heard about the Wu jen/Jade Phoenix Mage/Archmage combo. If you take 2 or more levels of Archmage and manage to rule that clones from Body Outside Body can use the spell-like abilities, the clones will be able to use Trascend Mortality and Body outside Body right? then emerald imolation when their time runs out...that would be so freaking fun!!! I may pick a Longspear and play as the Dota 2 heroe Phantom Lancer (aka Cancer Lancer). Is there any race that have blue skin Dx????

[WhamBamSam]

Holy molly, I've heard about the Wu jen/Jade Phoenix Mage/Archmage combo. If you take 2 or more levels of Archmage and manage to rule that clones from Body Outside Body can use the spell-like abilities, the clones will be able to use Trascend Mortality and Body outside Body right? then emerald imolation when their time runs out...that would be so freaking fun!!! I may pick a Longspear and play as the Dota 2 heroe Phantom Lancer (aka Cancer Lancer). Is there any race that have blue skin Dx????A Body Outside Body SLA won't actually get you to infinite clones now that I think about it, since the clones will lose uses/day of the SLA which will end the recursion. It will create an obscene number though.

If you use your SLA to create the clones, then each one comes into being with one use left for the day. So you get N^2+N duplicates, where N is the number your CL can make (max 4).

If you use a spell slot to create them instead, and still have both daily uses of the SLA saved up, then they each come into being with a 2/day Body Outside Body SLA. So you get your N copies from the casting. Each one creates N more (N^2 more total), and all N copies you made, and all N^2 copies of copies have 1 daily use of Body Outside Body left, for another N(N^2+N)=N^3+N^2 clones. So that's a total of N^3+2N^2+N. This probably extends to some manner of polynomial pattern based on the number of times you take SLA Body Outside Body.

I'm not sure you actually need SLA Transcend Mortality. It seems like the duplicates should carry any buffs (or debuffs) that are on you at the time of casting, apart from those derived from equipment. Though if someone more sure than me could weigh in on the ruling, that'd be great.

[TSED]

Guys, guys. I am assuming that this is a new player. Throwing very complicated battle strategies that require working knowledge of 4+ source books is a baaaad idea, as she will either be confused and not use them or just have someone else tell her what to do (so she's not really playing).

Furthermore, look at the level of Body Outside Body. I highly doubt the game's that high a level. I could be wrong, but... who gets new players to have 7th level spells on prepared arcane casters? Ouuuuch.

[Val666]

Guys, guys. I am assuming that this is a new player. Throwing very complicated battle strategies that require working knowledge of 4+ source books is a baaaad idea, as she will either be confused and not use them or just have someone else tell her what to do (so she's not really playing).

Furthermore, look at the level of Body Outside Body. I highly doubt the game's that high a level. I could be wrong, but... who gets new players to have 7th level spells on prepared arcane casters? Ouuuuch.

Well...she had been playing for a year and a half already so...
This table is very optimized so give everything you got. This girl loves to buly other characters since everytime we paly she asks me for advice and I ask you guys = win

[WhamBamSam]

Guys, guys. I am assuming that this is a new player. Throwing very complicated battle strategies that require working knowledge of 4+ source books is a baaaad idea, as she will either be confused and not use them or just have someone else tell her what to do (so she's not really playing).

Furthermore, look at the level of Body Outside Body. I highly doubt the game's that high a level. I could be wrong, but... who gets new players to have 7th level spells on prepared arcane casters? Ouuuuch.Well like I said, beyond a few spells, of which Body Outside Body is the most interesting by far, a Wu Jen is really just a less powerful Wizard reskin. If the player skims a Wizard handbook and the Wu Jen handbook, and keeps both of those plus maybe dndtools' list of Wu Jen spells bookmarked for whenever she wants to look for feat choices, new spells to learn, or PrCs to enter, she'll be fine even if she just plays it by ear. But the OP asked for more after being linked the Wu Jen handbook and being given advice that was pretty similar to the above, so I gave him some. Also, by the time she reaches the levels necessary for these high level combos, she'll be better acclimated to the game and will be able to understand them.

If she decides she'd rather have a build planned out to follow and just worry about actually playing the thing, that's fine too.

ToB is pretty intuitive and newbie proof as well, so the fact that the Transcend Mortality combo involves JPM is convenient. If she goes, say Wu Jen 5/Crusader 1/JPM 10/Wu Jen +1/Abjurant Champ 3, she'll be in fine shape the whole way through and only has to worry about managing a (relatively small compared to other full casters) spell list. If she wants to jazz it up a bit, then maybe Wu Jen 5/Crusader or Warblade 1/JPM 8/Spellsword 1/Wu Jen +1/Archmage 1/JPM +2/Archmage +1 is slightly stronger with a few more tricks up its sleeve.

Still, the OP should probably ask her what she envisions the Wu Jen doing. If she wants a gish, we can help her make that happen. If she wants a more caster-y caster, we can help her make that happen.

EDIT: Or as she's apparently something of a powergamer who just happens to be new to the class, we're probably fine.

Also, for the purposes of choosing a race if going for a JPM build, I feel I should ask whether your group enforces multiclass penalties.

[Val666]

Still, the OP should probably ask her what she envisions the Wu Jen doing. If she wants a gish, we can help her make that happen. If she wants a more caster-y caster, we can help her make that happen.

EDIT: Or as she's apparently something of a powergamer who just happens to be new to the class, we're probably fine.

Also, for the purposes of choosing a race if going for a JPM build, I feel I should ask whether your group enforces multiclass penalties.

Yeah, I love this guy. Well she wants tho focus on the gish side since she always plays a caster. As for multiclassing we play without penalties. Everything is allowed (Dragon Magazine and stuff) but she dont want something with more than LA+1.

[Vaz]

Wu Jen can also be EXTREMELY powerful Summoners.

As one of my current characters, I am attempting to go for; (currently Wu Jen 5/Malconvoker 7), and then going into Cosmic Descryer in epic for the additional HD cap.

Wu Jen 5/Malconvoker 9/Thaumaturgist 5/Archmage 1

This is houseruling that Spirit Ally counts towards to Planar Ally for the purposes of Thaumaturgist, and that Malconvoker, Cosmic Descryer and similar Planar Binding boosts apply to Spirit Binding etc.

Infernal Bargainer with Malconvoker gets +4 HD to Spirit Binding, meaning 28HD Spirit Binds. With the Silveraith (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/silveraith.shtml) template making any living creature a viable option for Spirit Binding. Combined with the ability to create your own (through Create Greater Undead, picked up via Arcane Disciple (Death)) I have access to the most powerful things we have already killed. Archmage gives me the ability to bind them as an SLA.

You can then do all sort of shenanigans with them. Create you own private demiplane with the fast time trait, and periodically return their to keep them under your control, and have them age, gaining the Evolved Undead template which enhances their Charisma, and just alround makes them more powerful.

Alternatively, you can go for a Gish with Jade Phoenix Mage, and do the whole *transform into epic level creature, then kill yourself, then autoressurect*.

[Chronos]

How do you create your own private demiplane as a wu jen? They don't get Genesis.

[Vaz]

Scrolls are a thing.