Prestidigitation, why all the hype?

[Yael]

Like, for a 0 level spell, what can it do (more than what it says on the spell description.)


A prestidigitation can slowly lift 1 pound of material. It can color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round. It can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material. It cannot deal damage or affect the concentration of spellcasters. Prestidigitation can create small objects, but they look crude and artificial. The materials created by a prestidigitation spell are extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components. Finally, a prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects. Any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour.

Lifting 1 pound of material, change color, clean or soil objects in a 1-foot cube, change the temperature of a nonliving material, create small objects (but not able to use them), which only persists for one hour, why is this so overpowered (I've read tons of people calling it OP for a 0-level spell.)

Plz someone explainerino?

[Prince Raven]

It's a very versatile cantrip that can have lots of creative applications.
http://www.dungeonmastering.com/gaming-life/creative-cantrips-lots-of-clever-uses-for-prestidigitation

[Chronos]

Remember, "overpowered for a first-level spell" isn't actually all that powerful.

[Agincourt]

In the 3.0 book Tome and Blood, Wizards of the Coast expanded the things you can do with Prestidigitation. They also put it online (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707) so it is available to anyone. All those many applications make it overpowered for a 0-level spell.

[Renen]

Troll post maybe?
Because if cantrips had a tier system, Prestidigitation would be tier 0.

[Piggy Knowles]

Every list of cool things to do with Prestidigitation that I've seen seems to ignore this line:


Finally, a prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects.

For example, people talk about using it for disguises, but that pretty clearly duplicates disguise self - at best, you'd get a minor circumstance bonus

That said, the Tome and Blood uses do make it pretty insane for a cantrip.

[Peelee]

Like, for a 0 level spell, what can it do (more than what it says on the spell description.)



Lifting 1 pound of material, change color, clean or soil objects in a 1-foot cube, change the temperature of a nonliving material, create small objects (but not able to use them), which only persists for one hour, why is this so overpowered (I've read tons of people calling it OP for a 0-level spell.)

Plz someone explainerino?

"cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components" does not mean "cannot be used." One of my best applications was fighting a black dragon in an arena. I'd used up most of my best spells, so to burn a few lesser spells, I cast Grease on its head a couple times, then prestidigitated a lit candle on its head. Dragon moved, candle fell, lit the grease.

When you're using first level spells and cantrips on a figgin' dragon, any damage is impressive damage.

[Zombulian]

Warforged dampens himself. Proceeds to swim in lava.

/thread

[hymer]

I cast Grease on [a dragon's] head a couple times, then prestidigitated a lit candle on its head. Dragon moved, candle fell, lit the grease.

Grease targets objects or areas. There's no mention in its description of it burning. Since I see this a lot, is it a PF thing? Oh, and Prestidigitation has a range of 10' which might be worth taking into consideration in this scenario.


Warforged dampens himself. Proceeds to swim in lava.

Prestidigitation cannot duplicate other spells, such as Energy Immunity. It can chill non-living matter weighing up to a pound. Dampen? Is this the PF version?

[Elderand]

Prestidigitation cannot duplicate other spells, such as Energy Immunity. It can chill non-living matter weighing up to a pound. Dampen? Is this the PF version?

Tome and blood:
Prestidigitation allow you to dampen something or someone, giving them fire resistance 2

Per the srd:
An immunity or resistance to fire serves as an immunity to lava or magma.

Ergo, being damp makes you immune to lava.

[Cruiser1]

Grease targets objects or areas. There's no mention in its description of it burning. Oh, and Prestidigitation has a range of 10' which might be worth taking into consideration in this scenario.
Grease from the spell definitely does NOT burn. If you want it to burn, you need to cast the 2nd level upgrade to the spell: Incendiary Slime (CM), which says "This spell functions like grease, but the liquid is also highly flammable."

Note that Incendiary Slime catches fire and does extra fire damage only if "fire damage is dealt" to it first. Prestidigitation can light campfires, but doesn't actually do any fire damage, so (unlike an actual torch or fire damage spell) it isn't enough to light Incendiary Slime on its own.

[Peelee]

Grease targets objects or areas. There's no mention in its description of it burning. Since I see this a lot, is it a PF thing?
3.5. I'd asked my DM if I could do it before I pulled it off, and after a bit of table discussion and book-reading, he allowed it.

Oh, and Prestidigitation has a range of 10' which might be worth taking into consideration in this scenario.
There may have been some dragon-riding going on at the time. Range and spell resistance (or lack thereof, which was why I tried stupidly low-level spells in the first place) were adhered to.
Grease from the spell definitely does NOT burn. If you want it to burn, you need to cast the 2nd level upgrade to the spell: Incendiary Slime (CM), which says "This spell functions like grease, but the liquid is also highly flammable."

Note that Incendiary Slime catches fire and does extra fire damage only if "fire damage is dealt" to it first. Prestidigitation can light campfires, but doesn't actually do any fire damage, so (unlike an actual torch or fire damage spell) it isn't enough to light Incendiary Slime on its own.
Correct. If you're using Complete Mage. This was my first ever campaign (though not my first ever session), and we were sticking to Core. As such, I made my debate, and my DM allowed it. I see nothing wrong with that.

[Gemini476]

I like the uses outlined in Tome and Blood.

Fun With Prestidigitation
The prestidigitation spell gives you the ability to perform minor magical effects for 1 hour. You can slowly lift 1 pound of material. You can color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round. You can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material. You can create small objects, but they look crude and artificial, and they are fragile. Any actual change to an object (beyond moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour.
So, what’s the use of prestidigitation? Actually, it’s one of the handiest cantrips around.

Change:You transform one object of Fine size or smaller into another object of roughly the same size. The object can weigh no more than 8 ounces.
The change must be within the same kingdom (animal, vegetable, or mineral). For example, you could change a piece of paper into scrap of linen, and then change that into a rose. Likewise, you could change a coin into a ring. You could not, however, turn a strip of leather into a piece of paper.

Chill:You reduce the temperature of an object by about 40° F, but never below freezing (32° F). After an hour the object’s temperature returns to normal.

Clean:You remove dirt, dust, and stains from floors, walls, dishes, windows, and the like, leaving these surfaces or objects spotless. You can clean an object with a volume of 1 cubic foot, or 1 square foot of the surface of a larger object, each round. The effect does not remove any foreign object of Fine size or larger. Dirt you remove is permanently gone, but objects you clean can get dirty again just like anything else.

Color:You bring color to an object. You can restore faded hues or give it a new color. If you add color, it must be from the visible spectrum (red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, or violet). You cannot change an object’s pattern, such as adding or removing stripes or polka dots, but you can change the color in a pattern so that, for example, a blue garment with white stripes becomes green with yellow stripes.

Dampen:You leave an object damp to the touch for 1 hour. Damp objects have fire resistance 2 while the effect lasts.

Dirty:You soil, spot, and sully walls, floors, dishes, garments, or the like, leaving them dusty, filthy, or stained. You can dirty an object with a volume of 1 cubic foot, or 1 square foot of the surface of a larger object, each round. Dirt you add remains after the effect ends, but objects you soil can be cleaned again just like anything else.

Dry:You remove dampness and excess moisture from an object. Moisture you remove does not return after the effect ends, but the object can become wet again just like anything else.

Firefinger:You cause a jet of flame up to ½ foot long to shoot forth from your finger. The flame is hot and ignites combustible materials. Lighting a torch with this effect is a standard action (rather than a full-round action), but lighting any other fire with it takes at least a standard action (DM’s discretion).

Flavor:You give a substance a better, worse, or different flavor. You could, for example, make porridge taste like lobster bisque. You do not change the substance’s quality or wholesomeness. Spoiled food remains spoiled, a poisoned drink is still deadly, and inedible material provides no nourishment—you can make a twig taste like steak, but it remains a twig.

Gather:You neatly collect numerous objects. The objects you gather can be no larger than Fine size, no two items can be more than 10 feet apart, and their total weight cannot exceed 1 pound. You can place the gathered objects into a container you touch, or you can form a stack or pile that you touch.
You can gather selectively; for instance, you can pick up just the coins from an area.

Polish:You bring luster to a wood, metal, stone, leather, glass, or ceramic object. The object must be clean to start with. It remains shiny after the effect ends but can become dull again like anything else.

Sketch:You create a two-dimensional visual figment of whatever you desire. You can leave the image hanging in the air, in which case it is immobile, or place it on a mobile object, such as a shield. The image can be no more than 1-foot square, and it lasts a maximum of 1 hour.

Stitch:You magically sew seams in textiles or leather. You can create new stitching or repair old work. Unlike the mending cantrip, you cannot heal rips, holes, or tears (though you can patch or sew them together). If you have thread on hand, the stitches you make remain after the effect ends, but they are no stronger or weaker than normal stitching. You also can sew without thread, but then the seams last only an hour.

Tie:You magically tie a firm knot (as though taking 10 with the Use Rope skill) in a thread, string, cord, rope, or cable up to 10 feet long. You can knot together two such objects if they’re within 1 foot of each other.

Warm:You increase the temperature of an object by about 40° F, but never above 140° F. After an hour the object’s temperature returns to normal

They call it Least Wish for a reason. It's ridiculously versatile for the level you get it, and even if you can only get it as a first-level spell (hello, Hexblade!) it's worth considering.

[squiggit]

Grease targets objects or areas. There's no mention in its description of it burning. Since I see this a lot, is it a PF thing?It's an AD&D thing. Guess people forgot they removed that clause in 3e


Dampen? Is this the PF version?
Tome of blood, linked a few posts up.

[Millennium]

Prestidigitation's power as a spell is more as a DM-manipulator than as something one would use in combat. It's not powerful by the standard rules, but even within its constraints, its possible effects are so broad that creative applications of it can set up situations where power by the standard rules no longer even matters.

The grease-candle example from this thread is an example. Let's say I were the DM, and I didn't know off the top of my head that grease doesn't burn (which I didn't, until I read this thread). If a player tried pulling this on me I wouldn't bother to look up the rule, because the idea is Just That Awesome. Damage or other effects would still be mine to determine, of course, and I probably wouldn't allow it to outright kill the dragon, but its day just got totally ruined. And if I did eventually go through the rules and found that grease didn't burn, I'd still be happy to allow the effect that once -"random fluctuations" or something like that- because it was awesome.

[Honest Tiefling]

Also, I think it has something to do with flair. Nothing says wizard quite like the guy who decides that bathing in the pond with all of the leeches isn't for him, or the one who decides that this peasant fare needs a bit more flavor and why bother with spices? Dang things are nearly always been kept for too long or spoiled. Or even being able to slog through the sewers and emerge smelling of roses, literally.

[Peelee]

Also, I think it has something to do with flair. Nothing says wizard quite like the guy who decides that bathing in the pond with all of the leeches isn't for him, or the one who decides that this peasant fare needs a bit more flavor and why bother with spices? Dang things are nearly always been kept for too long or spoiled. Or even being able to slog through the sewers and emerge smelling of roses, literally.

That too. There's also a lot of just random fun to be had, like dampening the crotch of the guard who sassed you a minute ago.

[Alex12]

In Frostburn, there's a rule that if an undead is below -20 degrees for at least 24 hours straight, it freezes and gets slower (but tougher). Since undead flesh counts as non-living matter, a necromancer can Prestidigitate his undead warm enough to keep them from freezing.

[DeltaEmil]

In Frostburn, there's a rule that if an undead is below -20 degrees for at least 24 hours straight, it freezes and gets slower (but tougher). Since undead flesh counts as non-living matter, a necromancer can Prestidigitate his undead warm enough to keep them from freezing.If you are referring to this:

Warm:You increase the temperature of an object by about 40° F, but never above 140° F. After an hour the object’s temperature returns to normal Then this doesn't work, because an undead creature is a creature, not an object, despite being non-living.

[Alex12]

If you are referring to this:
Then this doesn't work, because an undead creature is a creature, not an object, despite being non-living.

"[Prestidigitation] can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material." Doesn't matter that it's animate, or part of a larger thing. It gets defrosted, one pound at a time.

[hymer]

It gets defrosted, one pound at a time.

It's questionable whether you can even do that. The DM may decide that since the whole thing weighs more than a pound, you can't target it. Even if you can, even a 100 lb ogre skeleton (e.g.) would take 100 castings (a potential problem in 3.5) and take 10 minutes. And it only lasts an hour. A zombie wyvern would take over three hours (2000 castings) to heat in this fashion, long before which the early castings will have ceased to work.

[Flickerdart]

You don't need to hit the whole creature, due to the way heat transfer works. As long as the surface is kept warm, the rest of the thing will be, too.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Tome and blood:
Prestidigitation allow you to dampen something or someone, giving them fire resistance 2

Per the srd:
An immunity or resistance to fire serves as an immunity to lava or magma.

Ergo, being damp makes you immune to lava.

I've heard that Rules Compendium fixed the any Fire Resist = immunity to lava damage editing error. 2 Fire Resist on demand is still potentially useful at low levels. It will allow you to stand in a square with lamp oil (1d3) in relative safety.

[hamishspence]

It says "objects have fire resistance 2"

Not creatures.

Constructs may not count as objects (especially not living constructs).

[ryu]

I've heard that Rules Compendium fixed the any Fire Resist = immunity to lava damage editing error. 2 Fire Resist on demand is still potentially useful at low levels. It will allow you to stand in a square with lamp oil (1d3) in relative safety.

Primary source rules makes the rules compendium not even matter and I find it hilarious.

[hymer]

You don't need to hit the whole creature, due to the way heat transfer works. As long as the surface is kept warm, the rest of the thing will be, too.

So one casting, warming the outermost pound is what you're asking the DM to swallow? :smallbiggrin:

[HunterOfJello]

Sometimes the fun in playing a wizard or sorcerer extends to the fact that you can pull off neat simple magical tricks that other characters simply can't. The entire idea and flavor behind it is the fact that you can full of tasks in six seconds that would take other people several minutes or even up to an hour.

A Ranger, Barbarian, and Wizard sit around a campfire that has yet to be lit. The ranger works on setting the logs on fire and building up the flame to heat up a pot of tea. The barbarian waits impatiently. The wizard casts prestidigitation twice. First to heat up the tea in his mug and second to make it taste like delicious.

It's the little things that can make a class truly flavorful and fulfilling. Prestidigitation does that.

[Alex12]

It's questionable whether you can even do that. The DM may decide that since the whole thing weighs more than a pound, you can't target it. Even if you can, even a 100 lb ogre skeleton (e.g.) would take 100 castings (a potential problem in 3.5) and take 10 minutes. And it only lasts an hour. A zombie wyvern would take over three hours (2000 castings) to heat in this fashion, long before which the early castings will have ceased to work.

Prestidigitation lasts for an hour, and the effect can be changed, so the number of castings you need is much lower.

[hymer]

Prestidigitation lasts for an hour, and the effect can be changed, so the number of castings you need is much lower.

Good point! And this ruling also makes it possible to lift enormous amounts of matter, adding the effect of lifting a pound together again and again - helps with DM grumbling if you're lifting coints or grains of sand. In fact, since there's no indication you need to spend actions doing these things once the spell is cast, you can do all these things simultaneously and instantly as soon as you've spent a standard action on casting the spell. Just as long as things remain within the 10' range and you have LoS.

Edit: Though this may be interpreted as redirecting a spell, costing a move action and implying that the former effect goes away. But the average DM is more likely to rule 0 this than come up with that interpretation I epxect.

[Deophaun]

Grease from the spell definitely does NOT burn.
Not necessarily true. Incendiary slime is "highly flammable," which means grease can just be "flammable," without the adjective, like regular, mundane oil (50% chance of ignition, 1d3 damage over 2 rounds versus incendiary slime's 100% chance of ignition and 4d6 damage). Basically, think of incendiary slime as conjuring gasoline, and grease conjuring bacon drippings. A candle falling into the latter would be far more prone to being extinguished than to cause a fire.

[Prince Raven]

If it adds to the discussion, in Pathfinder only the Mythic version of Grease is flammable.

[Piggy Knowles]

Not necessarily true. Incendiary slime is "highly flammable," which means grease can just be "flammable," without the adjective, like regular, mundane oil (50% chance of ignition, 1d3 damage over 2 rounds versus incendiary slime's 100% chance of ignition and 4d6 damage). Basically, think of incendiary slime as conjuring gasoline, and grease conjuring bacon drippings. A candle falling into the latter would be far more prone to being extinguished than to cause a fire.

That's how I tend to allow grease to work in my games - it can be lit on fire, but it's not a sure thing, and the results aren't really all that dramatic. Also, I rule that it burns away quickly if you successfully set it aflame, so unless you're at really low levels, it's going to cut into the spell's duration. It's a neat trick for the first couple of levels that way, but it's not adding even more power to what is already one of the best level 1 spells. I've seen games where people ruled that any fire getting anywhere near grease resulted in a great flaming inferno, which just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

As an aside, one of the coolest things I've ever seen a player do was when an unarmed barbarian greased himself and set himself on fire before attacking a frost worm, despite a total lack of fire resistance, under the reasoning that it would hurt the frost worm much more than it would hurt him.