Inquisitor and dual pistols. :/

[CyberWyld]

Was hoping to get some help with this build. I've seen some different things online but most of it is all over the place.

I know dual pistols is a pain in the butt, before we even get started. :) I keep seeing all these crazy ways to bypass it. I'm not sure if it would be better to go straight inquisitor and take blackpowder inquisition as my domain, or dip into gunslinger.

I'm not sure if gun twirling http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/grit-feats/gun-twirling-grit will help me bypass the reloading issues.

I've read where pistols are treated as 1H weapons and other instances where they house rule them as light weapons. To me that's unbalanced due to them getting the benefit of touch AC.

Finally would adding the guided weapon enhancement http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapons-non-core/weapon-property---guided let me pretty much go full inquisitor, black powder domain, TWF line and still be fine on damage? Without having to really put anything into dex for dmg.

I'm basically just asking how this build would look, and for advice on making it. Thanks in advance!

[Slipperychicken]

The guided property is obviously supposed to be melee-only (even without the editor's note there), and I'd be leery about letting someone use it on a ranged weapon. If it clears your GM, it would be rather bizarre and unnecessary buff for ranged weapons, and very convenient for your inquisitor.

Regardless of how you go about building a dedicated ranged character, you will want to somehow cram in the following feats:

Point blank shot (prereq for rapid shot)
Precise Shot
Deadly Aim (this might be optional given your 3/4 BAB if you can find better sources of bonus damage)
Rapid Shot (since you're already getting an extra attack from TWF, you might be able to hold off on this one for a time)


Additionally, you will want to ensure that you can reload as a free action with your pistols. This is typically achieved by combining Rapid Reload (pistols) with alchemical cartridges.



I'm not sure if gun twirling http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/grit-feats/gun-twirling-grit will help me bypass the reloading issues.

That will help, in conjunction with Quick Draw.


As you can see, gunplay with early firearms is highly feat-intensive. One way to mitigate this is to dip Pistolero for a level, since it gives a number of important things, notably: The quick clear deed, Rapid Reload(Pistols), pistol proficiency, gunsmithing, and a free starter gun. A class which gives you bonus feats can also be very helpful in making this work.

[CyberWyld]

The guided property is obviously supposed to be melee-only (even without the editor's note there), and I'd be leery about letting someone use it on a ranged weapon. If it clears your GM, it would be rather bizarre and unnecessary buff for ranged weapons, and very convenient for your inquisitor.

Well hell I didn't even see that there. Thanks SC!

So a Gunslinger (Pistolero) 1/Inquisitor X is probably going to be my best bet then I'm thinking now.

[CyberWyld]

Oh I forgot to mention. Someone had said they allowed http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/crossbow-mastery-combat to work with pistols as a house rule. It's pretty feat heavy to qualify and it says it does work for ALL crossbows, not just light xbows. Do you see any issues with that being allowed?

[Slipperychicken]

Also, a two questions:

What race are you planning on? I'm thinking human for the bonus feat.
What level are you starting at?


Oh I forgot to mention. Someone had said they allowed http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/crossbow-mastery-combat to work with pistols as a house rule. It's pretty feat heavy to qualify and it says it does work for ALL crossbows, not just light xbows. Do you see any issues with that being allowed?

It still requires Rapid Reload, so you're really choosing between taking the feat (costs one feat, gets you free reloads without increasing misfire chance) and using paper cartridges instead (costs roughly 1.2 gold to craft per shot, increases misfire chance by 1, and and gets you free reloads).

[CyberWyld]

Also, a two questions:

What race are you planning on? I'm thinking human for the bonus feat.
What level are you starting at?



It still requires Rapid Reload, so you're really choosing between taking the feat (costs one feat, gets you free reloads without increasing misfire chance) and using paper cartridges instead (costs roughly 1.2 gold to craft per shot, increases misfire chance by 1, and and gets you free reloads).

Lvl 5 and had planned to be human or Aasmir.

[Slipperychicken]

I don't normally work with Inquisitors, but I was very happy to see their Bane feature. An extra +2 to hit and +2d6 damage could be very nice on a firearm. That might even let you hold off on Deadly Aim for a bit.


Lvl 5 and had planned to be human or Aasmir.

Fifth level is very good. That means you can afford advanced firearms if you are permitted to buy/craft them. If that's the case, then you can forget about the gunslinger dip. Advanced firearms load as a move action by default, have decent capacity (meaning you might be able to go a few rounds between reloads), and don't explode on the second consecutive misfire. I'd consider picking up a +1 Revolver or two, although that would eat up pretty much your entire WBL.

If we can get revolvers, I'd consider going Human Inquisitor 5 (with blackpowder inquisition of course) and taking Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Point Blank Shot, and Deadly Aim. That lets you do the dual-wield (not TWF!*) pistols thing for a few rounds, then maybe cast a spell during your reloading rounds (you should start reloading somewhere around round 7 if you're doing nothing but rapid-shotting). Between destruction judgement, bane, and deadly aim, your damage output should be pretty solid, even without adding a stat to the damage. Your next feats should be rapid reload, quick draw, and gun twirling so you can reload easier.

*As for dual-wielding, my reading is that you don't get TWF penalties unless you try to get an extra attack. That would let you keep the image you want (just alternate shots between your two guns instead of using the TWF action), without making you jump through hoops for TWF. Consult your GM about this ruling.

[CyberWyld]

Sent ya a PM SC but didn't hear back.

We aren't going to be allowed advanced firearms, just BP weapons. Which is fine, it fits the setting better. I can use paper carts and that should help.

I just found this after some research...thoughts?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/bandolier-beneficial

[Demidos]

Hey there Cyber :smallbiggrin:

The problem with swift actions, in a higher power campaign at least, is that 1) It consumes your swift actions, which can be used for other beneficial effects (Read: Amulet of tears, Anklets of Teleportation), and 2) that it means you can fire only one gun (shot) per round.

[endoperez]

Hey there Cyber :smallbiggrin:

The problem with swift actions, in a higher power campaign at least, is that 1) It consumes your swift actions, which can be used for other beneficial effects (Read: Amulet of tears, Anklets of Teleportation), and 2) that it means you can fire only one gun (shot) per round.

How expensive are the simple guns? Can you have a dozen of them, pre-loaded, and then use Quick Draw to get a loaded one?

[CyberWyld]

For RP purposes with the character using any guns besides these two really isn't an option unfortunately. :(

[grarrrg]

I know dual pistols is a pain in the butt, before we even get started. :) I keep seeing all these crazy ways to bypass it. I'm not sure if it would be better to go straight inquisitor and take blackpowder inquisition as my domain, or dip into gunslinger.

Ways to Two-Weapon with Pistols
First, you will NEED Cartridges and Rapid Reload feat.
Quick Draw + Gun Twirling, free actions to put away weapon, free action reload, free action draw weapon.
Grow an extra Arm (or appendage that can hold an item). Easiest done with 2 levels of Alchemist.
Advanced Firearms, more slows down how often you have to reload than anything.


I've read where pistols are treated as 1H weapons and other instances where they house rule them as light weapons. To me that's unbalanced due to them getting the benefit of touch AC.

Pistols are Ranged Weapons. Therefore they do not technically count as Light/1H/2H at all. They are Ranged.
Two-Weapon Fighting with Pistols will have at least a -4 penalty To-Hit (as neither is a 'Light' weapon).


Without having to really put anything into dex for dmg.

No one gets Dex to Damage except for Gunslingers and one of the Fighter archetypes (which is not available in all campaigns).
If you aren't using 'guns everywhere' rules, then you need 5 levels of Gunslinger minimum for DEX to Damage.


dip Pistolero for a level, since it gives a number of important things, notably: The quick clear deed, Rapid Reload(Pistols)

Pistoleros do not get Rapid Reload as a bonus feat.
Musket Masters get Rapid Reload as a bonus feat at 1st, but then have to wait until level 3 for "Two-handed gun counts as one-handed gun".