This version of Paladin...

[Angelalex242]

So, I'm about to try out 5e for the first time...

Is it me, or is Charisma not as important as it used to be for Paladins?

Also, if I understand this right, max stat for a PC is 20?

The premades seem to focus on strength a lot more then charisma. Is this wise of the premades, or foolish?

[Eten]

It is wise. The paladin does a lot of hitting with weapons. Only about half of the paladin's spells use the paladin's 8+CHA modifier for saving throws. Many of the Paladin class features use the charisma modifier more directly, but it is still weighted in favor of strength. For example, Oath of Devotion Paladin's can temporarily make their weapon sacred, granting a temporary bonus of their charisma modifier to their weapon's hit rolls. Strength always adds its modifiers to a weapon's hit roll, and for the damage roll too.

Max stat for a PC is 20.

[Angelalex242]

Hmmm. Quite a change then.

Should Charisma be the second highest stat, then? (followed, presumably, by Con?)

[da_chicken]

Cha is probably slightly better than Con. I would want a +2 at the absolute minimum in Cha. Beyond that, you want good Fighter stats.

[Angelalex242]

How much stronger does the class get if you manage to get charisma all the way to 20?

What does it do for the class, particularly in this system, that a fighter or barbarian can't do?

[da_chicken]

How much stronger does the class get if you manage to get charisma all the way to 20?

I suppose you could do that, but I don't know if the abilities presented in the playtest documents I have are appealing enough to devote that many stat boosts to. Maybe at high level. If you put a 16 into the ability and your race boosts it to 17, you're still using 1.5 ability boosts of maybe 5 to get it to 20. You're going to have to be an archer or a melee character to actually do damage since you don't really get enough spellcasting to rely on that like a primary caster. You get better spellcasting than 3e, but it's still not your main shtick. So you need Str/Dex and Con, too.


What does it do for the class, particularly in this system, that a fighter or barbarian can't do?

Use some of the Paladin class abilities. Seriously, all of them in the playtest docs were described already above. You'll have different class options in the PHB but your guess is as good as mine what they'll be. I don't see any class abilities that use an ability other than Cha, but I'd say roughly half the class abilities aren't tied to an ability score at all.

[Angelalex242]

Well, there'll always be DMs who let you roll dice. It's even in the test materials.

And only those who roll dice can start with a 17 or 18 in an ability. And even a 19 if they get a racial bonus. That's only one step away from the magic number of 20.

Just sayin', the dice are always out there for higher power games.

[Pex]

Well, there'll always be DMs who let you roll dice. It's even in the test materials.

And only those who roll dice can start with a 17 or 18 in an ability. And even a 19 if they get a racial bonus. That's only one step away from the magic number of 20.

Just sayin', the dice are always out there for higher power games.

5E Point Buy won't allow an 18 at 1st level? If true, add another reason not to like 5E and its version Point Buy. I don't demand an 18 at 1st level; I just loathe being absolutely refused one.

[da_chicken]

5E Point Buy won't allow an 18 at 1st level?

It's not in my playtest docs, no. The table stops at 16.


If true, add another reason not to like 5E and its version Point Buy. I don't demand an 18 at 1st level; I just loathe being absolutely refused one.

Yeah, but it makes a lot of sense. If you're going to flatten the math out that much and limit players to 20, starting out with an 18 doesn't allow much room for growth. That's got to be why racial mods are +1 instead of +2, too. You might argue that they should have instead modified or flattened the ability score tables, but that seems like a lot of work to preserve the ability to write "one eight" on your character sheet at 1st level.

[Angelalex242]

You cannot Point Buy an 18 in 5E. You can only roll an 18. Perhaps that's even a design feature, to make people want to roll dice more.

[Pex]

I will modify my point in saying I wouldn't mind if Point Buy doesn't give you an 18 but with racial modifiers you can have one. Even in Pathfinder, where I sort of like its Point Buy, it is prohibitively expensive to purchase an 18 outright, but buying a 16 is reasonable and let the racial modifier turn it into an 18.

[Angelalex242]

Nah. In Pathfinder, buying an 18 is a great idea for any SAD class, and is having a race that boosts it to 20.

For Tier 1s, casting stat is really all that matters.