help finding a rule

[geekintheground]

so im helping my friend with a build and i suggest he gets a MW weapon. and he says to me "eh, id rather save up to get a +1" to which i say "in order to get +1 on a weapon it has to be masterwork". but he didnt believe me, so i went looking and i cant seem to find it spelled out in the RAW, just that "all magic weapons are masterwork" which could mean the act of enhancing them MAKES them masterwork...

so my question is: is there an actual line or something that says "in order to get enhanced, a weapon must first be masterwork"? if so, where?

[eggynack]

Sure. DMG, page 285, last sentence. "Only a masterwork weapon can become a magic weapon." There's also a citation for the market price of magic weapons including masterwork costs on page 222, in footnote 1 under all of the weapon tables.

[Gildedragon]

Combo of things

1st
All magic weapons are also masterwork weapons, but their masterwork bonus on attack rolls does not stack with their enhancement bonus on attack rolls.

2nd
You can’t add the masterwork quality to a weapon after it is created; it must be crafted as a masterwork weapon

As such you must first get a masterwork-made item before you can get a magic item

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat, PHB:
"The weapon, armor, or shield to be enhanced must be a masterwork item that you provide."

Also in the DMG, the base item price listed for a given magical weapon or armor/shield is the price of a masterwork version. If he wants to get a +1 Longsword, he's going to pay 2,315 gp, because it's a +1 (2,000), masterwork (300), longsword (15).

[geekintheground]

sweet, thanks guys!

[Pinkie Pyro]

Just curious, how many of you out there actually enforce this? it always seemed pointless to me, as the +1 enhancement bonus subsumes the masterwork benefits of a weapon anyway.

I also tend to ignore the "must have an enhancement bonus of +1 before anything else" rule too...

[Gildedragon]

Just curious, how many of you out there actually enforce this? it always seemed pointless to me, as the +1 enhancement bonus subsumes the masterwork benefits of a weapon anyway.

I also tend to ignore the "must have an enhancement bonus of +1 before anything else" rule too...

The former: Always

The latter: More now that when I started DMing, still not universally... or not unchanged. First +1 comes at a +1k cost to a special ability,

[Andezzar]

I also tend to ignore the "must have an enhancement bonus of +1 before anything else" rule too...1 CON damage each attack for 8k GP seems too cheap for me. Don't forget even with the +1 before anything else, you can always do +1 and +9 worth of special abilities and cast GMW on the weapon as needed, ending with a de facto +14 weapon.

[Pinkie Pyro]

1 CON damage each attack for 8k GP seems too cheap for me. Don't forget even with the +1 before anything else, you can always do +1 and +9 worth of special abilities and cast GMW on the weapon as needed, ending with a de facto +14 weapon.

exactly, weapon enhancements are basically pointless because of GMW.

and remember, some things may actually need rebalancing.

for instance, manyfang. X4 damage all the time, +3 bonus.
seriously, what?

[eggynack]

Just curious, how many of you out there actually enforce this? it always seemed pointless to me, as the +1 enhancement bonus subsumes the masterwork benefits of a weapon anyway.

I also tend to ignore the "must have an enhancement bonus of +1 before anything else" rule too...
I tend away from rule changes unless I have a compelling interest in the rules being different. I'm pretty apathetic about this weapon pricing issue, so I'd likely just blindly enforce it.

[The Grue]

I'm about to start playing an E6 game where the "must have +1 before anything else" rule is not enforced.

I can't see it making that much of a difference, just means we're more likely to see weapons with special abilities sooner.