The Wizard Invades (Redux)

[qwertyu63]

This thread is in response to the thread So a 20th-level wizard wants to invade the US... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?350353-So-a-20th-level-wizard-wants-to-invade-the-US). It seems that thread solidly came to the conclusion that the wizard would curbstomp us. So, I've put together a new situation that levels the field a bit. I'd love to see what the mind of the playground can come up with.

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The Wizard Invades (Redux):
Alright, this is the situation: a 20th level wizard teleports to Earth today with a goal of taking over the world. However, his crossing alerts a god from his world who grants some people magical powers to give us a fighting chance. Using this aditional power, can we stop him? The rules of the challenge are as follows:

1: A single 20th level wizard teleports to Earth on the 2nd of June, 2014 at 12:00 pm.
2: The wizard can only bring the following things with him.
----His familiar.
----His spellbook.
----Items (both magical and non-magical) with a total value not to exceed 760,000 gold pieces. Any spells scribed in his spell book beyond the free 2 per level are counted aginst this total as if he had scribed them from scrolls.
3: When teleporting over, all active magical effects on the wizard are dispeled (e.g. all contingencies are removed, all buffs end, etc).
4: This wizard seeks to take over the world.
5: This wizard has taken no non-wizard levels (i.e. he has 20 levels in Wizard).
6: The wizard is of an LA +0 race.
7: The wizard is forbidden to have [Item Creation] feats excluding Scribe Scroll.
8: The wizard can not teleport back to his world.
9: At the exact moment the wizard teleports to Earth, a god of magic and learning from his world notices the existance of Earth. This god grants some people magic powers, as follows:
----All librarians have all of their levels replaced with wizard levels. They get a free spellbook with the free spells a wizard of their level would have.
----All teachers have all of their levels replaced with cleric levels (these clerics are clerics of the cause of learning). They get a free holy symbol.
10: All people granted magic powers are also granted knowledge of how to use these magic powers.
11: In addition to giving magical ability to people, the god also improves our weapons. One in every 300 guns is enchanted to have a +1 enhancement bonus. Use the damage values of D20 Modern for the damage from a gun.
12: When the wizard arrives, no one on Earth is higher than 6th level.
13: In terms of planes, Earth has only the material plane, ethereal plane, astral plane and plane of shadow. Creatures native to other planes can still be summoned, but they do not actually exist; instead, the "summoning" spell puts form to imagination.
14: For all intents and purposes (including piercing DR or damaging Shadows), nukes are magical.
15: With the exception of the god of magic and learning granting magical powers, no god or goddess will intervene in these events. Furthermore, the god of magic and learning will not intervene beyond the stated granting of magic power.

[Raven777]

I am the Wizard. I do not get noticed and set myself up to Charm Person and Dominate my way up most world governments and large companies. I craft simulacrums, raise undeads, deploy Ice Assassins, all what's necessary to put my pawns in positions of power. I set my pawns to deploy as much efforts as possible to "regulate" and curtain the spread of magic. I never want another 20th level Wizard to arise. I never overtly declare that I am in charge of anything.

[Gildedragon]

couple questions:
How do you define "librarian levels" or "teacher levels"? Is it associated with the grade they teach? (TA's count as 13th... Tenured Profs as 20th?)

an enchanter (ban evoke and necro) has probably the best options for dominating the world.

[ryu]

So the people of the world have no idea that the wizard is afoot, have access to no more than third level spells, and to top it all off no other divine intervention or supernatural things to speak of? Also the four most important planes still exist and summoning spells are generally effective?

Tell me do buffs and magical effects still get dispelled automatically when transferring between earth's various planes? Also do all spells not mentioned in the assumed scenario work exactly as normal? Are crafting feats only disallowed on the trip in, and is there any consequence for acquiring them after the arrival point?

[qwertyu63]

I am the Wizard. I do not get noticed and set myself up to Charm Person and Dominate my way up most world governments and large companies. I craft simulacrums, raise undeads, deploy Ice Assassins, all what's necessary to put my pawns in positions of power. I set my pawns to deploy as much efforts as possible to "regulate" and curtain the spread of magic. I never want another 20th level Wizard to arise. I never overtly declare that I am in charge of anything.

Sounds like a plan. Time to start counter planning.


couple questions:
How do you define "librarian levels" or "teacher levels"? Is it associated with the grade they teach? (TA's count as 13th... Tenured Profs as 20th?)

Something like that, but bear in mind rule 12. It would be more like TA's count as level 2-3, Tenured Profs as level 6.


So the people of the world have no idea that the wizard is afoot, have access to no more than third level spells, and to top it all off no other divine intervention or supernatural things to speak of? Also the four most important planes still exist and summoning spells are generally effective?

Yep. I thought about alerting people too, and I'll add that later if need be.


Tell me do buffs and magical effects still get dispelled automatically when transferring between earth's various planes? Also do all spells not mentioned in the assumed scenario work exactly as normal? Are crafting feats only disallowed on the trip in, and is there any consequence for acquiring them after the arrival point?

No, the dispel only occurs the once (the idea is to stop the wizard from getting a bunch of spells cast on him before coming). All spells not mentioned work normally. No crafting feats allowed for the wizard at all. ever.

[Emperor Tippy]

Step 1: Shapechange into a Zodar.
Step 2: Wish up a couple of Blessed Books containing all Wizard spells.
Step 3: Wish up 3 scroll's of Arcane Genesis.
Step 4: Planeshift to the Ethereal Plane and teleport out to interstellar space.
Step 5: Use the scroll's of Arcane Genesis to create a plane where all spells are enhanced with all metamagic, one that is a dead magic zone, and one that is a fast time zone.

Then you just start rebuilding your forces and defenses. Within a day or so you should be all the way back up and running.

Oh yes, Wish up scrolls of Hide Life and Kissed By The Ages plus a Simulacrum to use the KBtA spell. You are now totally and absolutely immortal as Hide Life without a material component makes you immune to death via everything except Old Age and Kissed By the Ages stops that little problem.

The next step is to cover the world in fine sized ice assassin constructs that have Permanent Emanation Selective (you) Planar Bubbles keyed to a dead magic plane. Shortly you will be the only one able to use magic on the entire planet.

[ryu]

Sounds like a plan. Time to start counter planning.



Something like that, but bear in mind rule 12. It would be more like TA's count as level 2-3, Tenured Profs as level 6.



Yep. I thought about alerting people too, and I'll add that later if need be.



No, the dispel only occurs the once (the idea is to stop the wizard from getting a bunch of spells cast on him before coming). All spells not mentioned work normally. No crafting feats allowed for the wizard at all. ever.

Well that last one prevents straight-up craft contingent spelling the states into oblivion. However planeshifting to the local astral and casting genesis to create a fast time demiplane gives access to all the preparations one could ask for in a fight like this. Are there any limits on ice assassins? If not we should be able to create an incredibly large number of them in the demiplane, Have half of them begin casting apocalypse from the sky, have the other other half greater teleport their partners to specific locations all around the states on the round casting finishes such that it it can be completely coated in several layers of apocalypse at the same time.

More direct than is strictly necessary, but what can I say? I have a flare for dramatic scale attacks.

[ahenobarbi]

Sooo teachers and librarians get drunk on their newly granted power and wizard take over the world (because folks with spellcasting granted are not aware of wizards presence, goal or even if they were can't really do anything to stop it).

Also why librarians?


Because “He's like Super Librarian, y'know? Everyone forgets, Willow, that knowledge is the ultimate weapon.”?

[Crake]

Step 1: Shapechange into a Zodar.
Step 2: Wish up a couple of Blessed Books containing all Wizard spells.
Step 3: Wish up 3 scroll's of Arcane Genesis.
Step 4: Planeshift to the Ethereal Plane and teleport out to interstellar space.
Step 5: Use the scroll's of Arcane Genesis to create a plane where all spells are enhanced with all metamagic, one that is a dead magic zone, and one that is a fast time zone.

Then you just start rebuilding your forces and defenses. Within a day or so you should be all the way back up and running.

Oh yes, Wish up scrolls of Hide Life and Kissed By The Ages plus a Simulacrum to use the KBtA spell. You are now totally and absolutely immortal as Hide Life without a material component makes you immune to death via everything except Old Age and Kissed By the Ages stops that little problem.

The next step is to cover the world in fine sized ice assassin constructs that have Permanent Emanation Selective (you) Planar Bubbles keyed to a dead magic plane. Shortly you will be the only one able to use magic on the entire planet.

Shouldn't tippy be like... banned from these sorts of threads? It's like a pro playing chess against a baby.

[qwertyu63]

Also why librarians?

No real reason, just the group most related to books. It was either that or authors.


Shouldn't tippy be like... banned from these sorts of threads? It's like a pro playing chess against a baby.

Yeah. Also, Genesis really should be banned here as well (or at the very least setting planar traits should be banned maybe allowed as I ban it on sight]).

[Segev]

I would actually suggest that, rather than try to change the rules of our world to the point that it really isn't our world so much as "D&D on an Earth-like modern world," you might do better writing up your hypothetical wizard. Heck, maybe those saying the wizard wins should write up the wizard at whatever level they think he needs to be to "win," then outline his tactics. THen everybody else can try to decide how the modern world, with what the real world has available to it, might respond.

[Chronos]

So, this is just like the original scenario, except you've somehow gotten rid of all of Earth's mid-teens-level characters, and replaced them with a bunch of low-level wizards and clerics? We're even more screwed than we were before.

[qwertyu63]

...you've somehow gotten rid of all of Earth's mid-teens-level characters...

As far as I'm concerned, we don't have any mid-teens-level characters. This article (http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/587/roleplaying-games/dd-calibrating-your-expectations-2) is the main source of my ideas on that front.

[Chronos]

Everyone always cites that article, but the very arguments in that article prove conclusively that folks above level 6 are quite common. Like, he shows that a character who's so good at Knowledge that he can learn something nobody has ever known before would be level 6... But that's not Einstein, that's most of the college professors you've ever had. "Has learned something that nobody has ever known before" is the very definition of a PhD degree.

Meanwhile, the actual D&D rules tell us things like that you need to be sixth level before you can start attracting followers, or that someone considered legendary is probably about 11th level.

[Shining Wrath]

Point the first: the minute several millions of people get Wizard and Cleric levels, spells, and the knowledge to use them, several dozen governments start getting reports of weird things happening, and it does not take long to learn the world has changed.

Point the second: someone has to grant those clerics their spells. What's their power source?

Point the third: If the wizard has even a few minutes to prepare, as noted by Tippy, then he has demiplanes and essentially infinite time to prepare.

Here's my revision of your challenge:

Keep your restrictions on wizard wealth and so on, but the wizard's arrival is foretold by the God of Magic and Knowledge. Not everyone believes the prophets to whom (S)he reveals this knowledge. Some extra-paranoid people in the Pentagon do believe, though, since it is their job to be ready for ANYTHING, as do some of the people who are normally made fun of for their unstylish tin-foil hats.

So if a wizard as described arrives at a known time and place, what's the minimum forces that must be arrayed to stop him to have a chance? Oh, and the believers in the Pentagon can't deploy nukes, but they can deploy, e.g., an AC 130 Spectre.

Can an unbuffed level 20 wizard handle a chain gun?


Everyone always cites that article, but the very arguments in that article prove conclusively that folks above level 6 are quite common. Like, he shows that a character who's so good at Knowledge that he can learn something nobody has ever known before would be level 6... But that's not Einstein, that's most of the college professors you've ever had. "Has learned something that nobody has ever known before" is the very definition of a PhD degree.

Meanwhile, the actual D&D rules tell us things like that you need to be sixth level before you can start attracting followers, or that someone considered legendary is probably about 11th level.

Given that there are tens of thousands of college professors, a Gaussian distribution whose lower tail is "Has learned something that nobody has ever known before" and whose upper tail is "Stephan Hawking / Albert Einstein / Shining Wrath" (modesty forbids) probably spans several levels, and similar things are likely to happen in terms of martial professions.

I'd say a MMA legend might be a 10th level monk. A seasoned Navy SEAL might be 10th level fighter, and his weapons in D&D terms are going to be Masterwork at a minimum.

[ArqArturo]

When I was a kid, whenever I'd feel small or lonely, I'd look up at the stars. Wondered if there was life up there. Turns out I was looking in the wrong direction. When alien life entered our world, it was from deep beneath the Pacific Ocean. A fissure between two tectonic plates. A portal between dimensions. The Breach. I was fifteen when the first Wizard made land in San Francisco.

By the time tanks, jets and missiles took it down, six days and 35 miles later, three cities were destroyed. Tens of thousands of lives were lost. We mourned our dead, memorialized the attack, and moved on. And then, only six months later, the second attack hit Manila.

The acid factor of the Wizard blood creates a toxic phenomenon known as Wizard Blue.

Then the third one hit Cabo. And then the fourth. And then we learned this was not gonna stop. This was just the beginning. We needed a new weapon. The world came together, pooling it's resources and throwing aside old rivalries for the sake of the greater good. To fight monsters, we created monsters of our own. The Druid program was born.

[Gemini476]

A question: how high can we expect the ability scores to be on Earth? Will >50% of those new Wizards and Clerics be unable to cast their spells?

Also, none of this really stops a Wizard from running around and playing the political game rather than simply killing everyone via shadows. (Although he can still kill most people via shadows and then set himself up as a protector from the Shadow Menace. Or possibly the Magical Menace, since how many of those teachers/librarians are going to use their powers for good?)

When you say "Use the damage values of D20 Modern for the damage from a gun." does that include how massive damage is redefined to being "greater than your constitution score"?
Because otherwise they're still pretty weak. Also, Heavy Fortification means that getting AC 31 should make most attacks miss you (and the ones that hit only deal 2d12-ish damage max). And miss chance turns that 5% into something smaller, of course. Being incorporeal will also make you immune to 99.7% of weapons.

Are nukes transdimensional or will they only affect the Material? If they affect the Ethereal, what exactly does the light and sound do? Are nukes as in d20 Modern? (If they are, are they as in d20 Future or as in d20 Apocalypse?)

Are Earth's transitive planes lifeless or do they have inhabitants?


By the way, is there any particular reason why you are declaring that Earth has transitive planes or functional magic? I'd personally have it use the Without the Plane of Shadow/Ethereal/Astral variants in Manual of the Planes and maybe have it have Dead Magic, but that's just my opinion.

[The Grue]

This thread is in response to the thread So a 20th-level wizard wants to invade the US... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?350353-So-a-20th-level-wizard-wants-to-invade-the-US). It seems that thread solidly came to the conclusion that the wizard would curbstomp us.

Actually if I recall, the conclusion the thread came to was that the OP's question lacked sufficient conditions, rules and assumptions for a meaningful answer to be reached.

I see this thread has endeavoured to avoid that hurdle. :smallsmile:

[Shining Wrath]

A question: how high can we expect the ability scores to be on Earth? Will >50% of those new Wizards and Clerics be unable to cast their spells?

Also, none of this really stops a Wizard from running around and playing the political game rather than simply killing everyone via shadows. (Although he can still kill most people via shadows and then set himself up as a protector from the Shadow Menace. Or possibly the Magical Menace, since how many of those teachers/librarians are going to use their powers for good?)

When you say "Use the damage values of D20 Modern for the damage from a gun." does that include how massive damage is redefined to being "greater than your constitution score"?
Because otherwise they're still pretty weak. Also, Heavy Fortification means that getting AC 31 should make most attacks miss you (and the ones that hit only deal 2d12-ish damage max). And miss chance turns that 5% into something smaller, of course. Being incorporeal will also make you immune to 99.7% of weapons.

Are nukes transdimensional or will they only affect the Material? If they affect the Ethereal, what exactly does the light and sound do? Are nukes as in d20 Modern? (If they are, are they as in d20 Future or as in d20 Apocalypse?)

Are Earth's transitive planes lifeless or do they have inhabitants?


By the way, is there any particular reason why you are declaring that Earth has transitive planes or functional magic? I'd personally have it use the Without the Plane of Shadow/Ethereal/Astral variants in Manual of the Planes and maybe have it have Dead Magic, but that's just my opinion.

My assumption is that given a few minutes time after arrival to cast, a 20th level Wizard has divined a safe place, teleported there, and then started going Full Tippy on us. He's got demiplanes, he's got minions, he's got 273 layers of contingency spells.

I like my question of "He arrives but we know when and where" better. If you knew a level 20 Wizard was coming through, fully equipped but without his normal layer of protective spells, what's the least that could stop him?

I'm thinking intersecting fields of fire from a few chain guns whose operators have goggles enabling vision in the infrared and ultraviolet spectra might do the trick. It takes exactly ONE hit from a 20mm shell the size of a bratwurst to ruin your entire day, and he'd be taking a few dozen a second.

[Rubik]

A question: how high can we expect the ability scores to be on Earth? Will >50% of those new Wizards and Clerics be unable to cast their spells?That, and none of the "clerics" actually worship the god, so they'd lose their spellcasting entirely.

Wouldn't archivists be better for both teachers AND librarians, assuming we were to keep that really [redacted] idea?

[Gemini476]

That, and none of the "clerics" actually worship the god, so they'd lose their spellcasting entirely.

Wouldn't archivists be better for both teachers AND librarians, assuming we were to keep that really [redacted] idea?

Might as well make musicians bards and priests/rabbi/imams/shamans/ clerics, I guess. And new agey guys into Psions - they've already got the crystals.

I do find it funny how giving only teachers/librarians magic would probably lead to some [I]issues as very few of these dangerous rogue elements are in the police or other such position. What's the chance of the world getting a rash of terrorism and mystical murders once every single teacher out there gets access to things like Acid Splash or Lightning Bolt? How would law enforcement even respond to that?

By the way, are we assuming that reality is roughly like the Standard D&D World As Outlined In The Demographics Tables in regards to level distribution, or what? Will 99% of everyone be a level 1 commoner with >4hp?

[Rubik]

Might as well make musicians bards and priests/rabbi/imams/shamans/ clerics, I guess. And new agey guys into Psions - they've already got the crystals.

I do find it funny how giving only teachers/librarians magic would probably lead to some [I]issues as very few of these dangerous rogue elements are in the police or other such position. What's the chance of the world getting a rash of terrorism and mystical murders once every single teacher out there gets access to things like Acid Splash or Lightning Bolt? How would law enforcement even respond to that?

By the way, are we assuming that reality is roughly like the Standard D&D World As Outlined In The Demographics Tables in regards to level distribution, or what? Will 99% of everyone be a level 1 commoner with >4hp?Just imagine what a RL Severus Snape-type person would do with D&D magic?

I've had teachers I wouldn't trust with the power they DO have, let alone something like this.

[dascarletm]

Just imagine what a RL Severus Snape-type person would do with D&D magic?



be manipulated and sad about the love of his life marrying his childhood bully and eventually dying?

[Rubik]

be manipulated and sad about the love of his life marrying his childhood bully and eventually dying?I don't think so. Not only was Snape entirely Evil (with a capital 'E'), he obviously had no inklings of regret anywhere in his blackened, shriveled little soul. If Snape was anywhere near remorseful, or he cared about Lily at all, he wouldn't have tormented and harassed her entirely innocent son, especially since, given he used Legilimency on Harry frequently, he knew how abused Harry was at home. He also tormented and harassed Neville, whose parents he knew had been driven to insanity via the Cruciatus curse. He also taught the Slytherin students about bigotry and bullying, and encouraged several new generations of Death Eaters, among other horrible actions, strengthening Voldemort's forces considerably, and leading to the fall of Hogwarts and the Ministry.

No. The world would've been better off if Sirius had succeeded in killing Snape back in school, and the bastard deserved every bit of torment he ever got, if only retroactively.

[Erik Vale]

That, and none of the "clerics" actually worship the god, so they'd lose their spellcasting entirely.

No, they keep it because they worship a cause.

Assuming fast time planes are allowed, Mindrape+Time=World Domination, assuming you don't want to Tippy. After that you just... Do what you want I suppose...

How much would a custom item of at will Mindrape cost? *Head Guess* 1800*9*17=275400... Which is a little over a third but also the most expensive, I'll grab one of those, a scrying item, and a greater teleport item, should be done in a couple of days, and the only resource used is money.

[Rubik]

No, they keep it because they worship a cause.But they don't pray to anything.

[One Step Two]

Just imagine what a RL Severus Snape-type person would do with D&D magic?

I've had teachers I wouldn't trust with the power they DO have, let alone something like this.

This. So Much. Besides many of them would want to use their new powers to make a faster profit. Why fight the equivalent of a god when you can carve out a nice little corner for yourself?

[Rubik]

This. So Much. Besides many of them would want to use their new powers to make a faster profit. Why fight the equivalent of a god when you can carve out a nice little corner for yourself?Possibly out of the bodies and souls of other people.

[One Step Two]

Possibly out of the bodies and souls of other people.

Okay, so now I have a plan for our Wizard.
If he doesn't know about what thie God of Magic and Learning has done, Using some divinations, like Contact other plane, he would learn what other spellcasters exist on Earth. Using his half-ranks in diplomacy, and Voice of the Dragon from Spell compendium, combined with some polymorph effects to look like a senator he keeps in a temporal stasis, he submits to the US government a report about the sudden insurgence of mutated humans, able to use new and terrifying powers which could rock the world. More insidiously, it seems they have infected every single school and place of learning, which could ultimately affect the children of the world. (X-men reference is go!)

Edit: He then sits back and lets panic take care of the problem.

[ryu]

Okay, so now I have a plan for our Wizard.
If he doesn't know about what thie God of Magic and Learning has done, Using some divinations, like Contact other plane, he would learn what other spellcasters exist on Earth. Using his half-ranks in diplomacy, and Voice of the Dragon from Spell compendium, combined with some polymorph effects to look like a senator he keeps in a temporal stasis, he submits to the US government a report about the sudden insurgence of mutated humans, able to use new and terrifying powers which could rock the world. More insidiously, it seems they have infected every single school and place of learning, which could ultimately affect the children of the world. (X-men reference is go!)

Edit: He then sits back and lets panic take care of the problem.

Doesn't he also propose a sentinel program composed mostly of shadowsteel golems polymorphed into something less disturbing to keep his public image?

[One Step Two]

Doesn't he also propose a sentinel program composed mostly of shadowsteel golems polymorphed into something less disturbing to keep his public image?

See, now you're catching on.

[ryu]

See, now you're catching on.

Also, just because he's a silly man, he's actively providing all of the background music. All without anyone knowing his involvement.

[ArqArturo]

I think that, in that case, wouldn't psionics be implemented? Also, uberknownst to everyone, there has already been a 20th-level cleric in Existence, probably one that might rival the wizard.

[One Step Two]

I think that, in that case, wouldn't psionics be implemented? Also, uberknownst to everyone, there has already been a 20th-level cleric in Existence, probably one that might rival the wizard.

See, now we've just made a campaign idea. Three 20th level Characters, one Arcane Caster, Divine Caster, and Psionicist with a grudge against eachother. They have a mortal and mundane world as their chess board, how do they play?

[ArqArturo]

See, now we've just made a campaign idea. Three 20th level Characters, one Arcane Caster, Divine Caster, and Psionicist with a grudge against eachother. They have a mortal and mundane world as their chess board, how do they play?

Obviously the Divine Caster has minions, probably four since it's easier to control four powerful cohorts rather than mindless masses of mooks.

[ryu]

See, now we've just made a campaign idea. Three 20th level Characters, one Arcane Caster, Divine Caster, and Psionicist with a grudge against eachother. They have a mortal and mundane world as their chess board, how do they play?

Wait. If the wizard is the senator, the cleric is Apocalypse, and the psion is Prof. X what do we use to represent Magneto?

Also internet if you aren't willing to recognize psion as a word why are you perfectly fine with magneto? Is there a non-proper noun I'm unaware of?

[ArqArturo]

Wait. If the wizard is the senator, the cleric is Apocalypse, and the psion is Prof. X what do we use to represent Magneto?

Silverbrow Human Sorcerer/Argent Savant/Master of the Unseen Hand, maybe?.

[ryu]

Silverbrow Human Sorcerer/Argent Savant/Master of the Unseen Hand, maybe?.

I could see that. Now all that's left is to make believable versions of most of the more iconic mutants. The question remains on how you'd recreate the various teams faithfully while still making them credible opponents for each other. This gets even more complex if we consider the various factions found on other continents or small groups of early antagonists like the brotherhood.