Divine Gestalt suggestions

[Eliana Solange]

I'm looking for interesting suggestions of a Divine caster gestalt build.

The party will most likely also have a Swashbuckler/Scout and a Psion/Warblade (or something similar in each case -- they're still deciding on their characters as well).

What would complement that party well? We'll be starting at level 1.

We play 3.5 with the following books available: PHB2, CAr, Cadv, CD, CW (plus the core rule books of course). DM may be amenable to allowing features from other sources upon appeal.

I have a character I built some time ago and barely got to use it, so I may re-use or base a new character on that one, or may go for something completely different. That one was Aasimar/Paladin/Pious Templar//Cleric/Radiant Servant of Pelor/Contemplative (1 or 2 level dip)/Hierophant (DM allowed the notion of a Lawful Good Radiant Servant of Pelor -- new DM is also amenable.)

I have seen a lot of suggestions for Cloistered Cleric paired with a fighter class. DM is open to allowing Cloistered Cleric even though it's from a different book, but is not willing to allow it to be a Gestalt with a fighter class -- the idea being that if the CC favors study and prayer over martial training, it's "cheating" to pair it with a fighting class. For those who do play such characters, how is that "conflict" justified/roleplayed?

[HunterOfJello]

For those who do play such characters, how is that "conflict" justified/roleplayed?

It's gestalt. Those sorts of conflicts always occur.

How does the other player justify playing a psion//warblade instead of a psychic warrior//warblade? If the argument is that a character can't fully devote themselves to a line of study that requires the full exclusion of fighting techniques while also taking a full bab class, then the psion should be forced to be a psychic warrior instead.

[WinWin]

Depends. History is filled with quite a few examples of militant religious orders that fill their time with both prayer/meditation and martial training. Knights Templar and Shaolin Monks both come to mind.

Have you considered pairing Monk or Paladin with Cleric?

[malonkey1]

Depends. History is filled with quite a few examples of militant religious orders that fill their time with both prayer/meditation and martial training. Knights Templar and Shaolin Monks both come to mind.

Have you considered pairing Monk or Paladin Unarmed Swordsage or Crusader with Cleric?

Fixed that for you. :smalltongue:

[Eliana Solange]

Monk and Paladin I have considered -- Unarmed Swordsage and Crusader I have not as we don't officially have access to ToB (and I'm not familiar with either class as I have not played with that book before).

What do you think about Cleric/Druid?

[Jeff the Green]

Monk and Paladin I have considered -- Unarmed Swordsage and Crusader I have not as we don't officially have access to ToB (and I'm not familiar with either class as I have not played with that book before).

What do you think about Cleric/Druid?

It's not bad, but it ends up being somewhat redundant.

I guess the question is what role do you want to fill? Divine classes can handle primary melee, archery, primary caster, skill monkey...

[Gildedragon]

Thin is with cleric-druid you're doubling up on the same ability: spellcasting.

You could go Cloistered Cleric/monk/cleric (during dead casting levels)//fighter/prestige paladin for great saves, full casting (with a few expedited spells) and almost full BAB

[CryptbornAkryea]

Cleric//Druid
Tier1//Tier1
Kinda horrifically powerful, no? I'm still learning the ways of optimization and tiers.

[Ikeren]

Swashbuckler/Scout --- Your primary skill user and primaryish melee.
Psion/Warblade --- Primary arcanist and primary melee.

You want to provide a primary divine, secondary skill user, a secondary arcanist, and a tertiary melee.

Find out if the Swashbuckler/Scout is going to do traps or not. If he does traps, go face and social skills. If he goes social skills/scouting, go traps. (You'll need trapfinding).

One side should be primary divine: Cloistered Cleric, Favoured Soul, Druid, Archivist or Cleric.
One side should mix skills, arcane, and melee: Factotum, Rogue/Suel Aranomech, Bard, Duskblade (though it's a little short, pairs best with Cloistered Cleric).

Cleric3/with prestige classes (Church Inquisitor2/Radiant Servant10/Contemplative 2/Divine Orcale 2/Prestige Paladin 1) // Duskblade 20 is a fine build and will help fit into your party nicely. You'll be slightly short on skills and slightly heavy on melee power as a party, but if your DM won't let you use cloistered cleric, that's to be expected.

[Gildedragon]

Hmmm. Int based divine is a good way to go

Archivist // factotum with 1 feat for Academic Priest (if possible) can be a skills powerhouse
Or Cloistered Cleric // factotum
trade kn domain for kn devotion

[eggynack]

Cleric//Druid
Tier1//Tier1
Kinda horrifically powerful, no? I'm still learning the ways of optimization and tiers.
It's reasonable, though it's a bit of an active/active combination, which means that you end up with more things to do than you have time to do them. The best way to do it might be declaring cleric as a sort of passive side, using DMM to run a variety of long term buffs. I don't know if that's especially synergistic with what a druid does naturally though, and there's a reasonably high amount of ability crossover between the two classes. It'd be a strong character, because either class on its own is utter insanity, but apart from some ability score stuff, there's not all that much synergy between the two sides.

[Eliana Solange]

Swashbuckler/Scout --- Your primary skill user and primaryish melee.
Psion/Warblade --- Primary arcanist and primary melee.

You want to provide a primary divine, secondary skill user, a secondary arcanist, and a tertiary melee.

The Swashbuckler/Scout is going to be a ranged fighter, so I think I do need to be decent in melee.



Find out if the Swashbuckler/Scout is going to do traps or not. If he does traps, go face and social skills. If he goes social skills/scouting, go traps. (You'll need trapfinding).


Yes, the scout is handling trapfinding and disable device. What do you mean by "face"?



One side should be primary divine: Cloistered Cleric, Favoured Soul, Druid, Archivist or Cleric.
One side should mix skills, arcane, and melee: Factotum, Rogue/Suel Aranomech, Bard, Duskblade (though it's a little short, pairs best with Cloistered Cleric).

Cleric3/with prestige classes (Church Inquisitor2/Radiant Servant10/Contemplative 2/Divine Orcale 2/Prestige Paladin 1) // Duskblade 20 is a fine build and will help fit into your party nicely. You'll be slightly short on skills and slightly heavy on melee power as a party, but if your DM won't let you use cloistered cleric, that's to be expected.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I am going to try to talk the DM out of the Cloistered Cleric initial ruling. I think the comparison to other classes that eschew combat being paired with combat classes makes a good argument. We'll see if he agrees ;-)

In general, if folks are suggesting classes not in the books we are starting from, if you could let me know which book that would save me some searching. Thanks!

[Eliana Solange]

Cleric3/with prestige classes (Church Inquisitor2/Radiant Servant10/Contemplative 2/Divine Orcale 2/Prestige Paladin 1) // Duskblade 20 is a fine build and will help fit into your party nicely.

The problem with this build appears to be MAD. The Cleric side needs Wis/Cha and Duskblade needs Int/Str/Con

I think I want to leave the Arcane(ish) stuff to the Psion and focus more on Clerical/Melee characteristics.

[Gildedragon]

Face is the social character: the diplomat, the bluffer, the guy that explains to the king/high priest/dean/general why the vizier is dead/the holy relic is missing limbs/the library burnt down/the very important trade pass collapsed in such a way it ends well for the party

Face is the one that is in charge of getting you room upgrades at the inn, the guy in charge of fixing things up.

You know, that guy. The schmoozer, the socializer, the charmer. Generally a bard but can be other things

Now you say you need to be melee

Cloistered Cleric 6//Fighter 5/Paladin of Freedom1

Better than fighter would be Crusader but we make do

or:

toss Divine Bard in (or Prestige Divine Bard)

Sprinkle some melee (Marshal? Standard Paladin of Freedom) throughout to boost your BAB:

Cloistered Cleric 6/Marshal1/C Cleric 1/Marshal 3/C Cleric 1/Marshal 5/C Cleric1/Marshal 2//Marshal 5/Prestige Divine Bard 15

[Jeff the Green]

toss Divine Bard in (or Prestige Divine Bard)

Sprinkle some melee (Marshal? Standard Paladin of Freedom) throughout to boost your BAB:

Cloistered Cleric 6/Marshal1/C Cleric 1/Marshal 3/C Cleric 1/Marshal 5/C Cleric1/Marshal 2//Marshal 5/Prestige Divine Bard 15

That's not a bad idea, actually. Here's what I'd do: Cleric 5/Prestige Divine Bard 3/Prestige Paladin of Tyranny 3/Contemplative 1/Prestige Divine Bard +8 (11)//Fighter 2/Marshal 3/Cleric +1 (6)/Hexblade 1/Cleric +1 (7)/Hexblade +1 (2)/Cleric +1 (8)/Hexblade +1 (3)/Warlock 4/Cleric +1 (9)/Hierophant 4.

I think I got all the levels synced up. You'll have full cleric casting, two minor auras, Charisma to saves (twice vs. spells) and Mettle, three invocations, the ability to take 10 on a UMD, bardic music, a debuffing aura, and four Hierophant abilities.

The thing about bard is that without ToB it eats your standard actions to sing, and as a cleric you have much better things to do with them. So it's really not worth taking all fifteen levels. In fact, you could replace all but the first level with another casting PrC; I just couldn't think of any off the top of my head from the allowed books. The real reason you want it is to add bard spells to your list.

Regarding feats: You must have Devoted Performer and Mounted Combat for this build to work. Fighter levels will get you Mounted Combat, and probably Power Attack as well. If you can take cloistered cleric, trading out the Knowledge domain for Knowledge devotion is a good choice. Divine Metamagic will be a good idea, either Quicken or Persistent. (I lean toward Quicken because it's less likely to bring down DM wrath). Likewise Metamagic Song if your DM's okay with it working for divine spells. Divine Might is another option, and if you can swing it Snowflake Wardance. (Don't bother taking both Divine Might and Divine Metamagic or both Snowflake Wardance and Metamagic Song.) If you can get your DM to approve it and be sure it will work with Prestige Paladin, take Battle Blessing.

[Gildedragon]

Paladin of tyranny kills your bardness. You want slaughter or freedom

There are items (various) that let your song linger after you're done. Singing blade or something of the like in the MIC is the one that comes to mind

[Eliana Solange]

The thing about bard is that without ToB it eats your standard actions to sing

No one in our group has ever played a Bard -- all we ever do is make fun of them. ;-) So sell me on the Bard. And what would be the feature (feat?) in ToB that would prevent the Bardic singing from sucking up the standard actions?

What do you do about the arcane spell failure chance for the Warlock? I assume I'm not sticking with light armor. I'm going to need to be able to tank.

[Gildedragon]

No idea what feat it is, but "Lingering Song" from CV lets your songs last for a while post performance.

Benefits of Bards: Good skillpoints, good spells for buffing and for socializing, the prestige bard casts some spells lower than would normally be available and still gets to 9ths

[Jeff the Green]

Paladin of tyranny kills your bardness. You want slaughter or freedom

That's what Devoted Performer is for.


No one in our group has ever played a Bard -- all we ever do is make fun of them. ;-) So sell me on the Bard. And what would be the feature (feat?) in ToB that would prevent the Bardic singing from sucking up the standard actions?

Bards can be absolute badasses. They have excellent buff spells, a good chassis, and some wonderful feats to boost your combat abilities.

ToB has Song of the White Raven. As long as you're in a White Raven stance, you can activate bardic music as a swift action, and your Crusader/Warblade levels stack with Bard to determine your Inspire Courage bonus.


What do you do about the arcane spell failure chance for the Warlock? I assume I'm not sticking with light armor. I'm going to need to be able to tank.

You take 24-hour buffs, probably Beguiling Influence, Spiderwalk, and See the Unseen.

[Gildedragon]

That's what Devoted Performer is for.


Uh... but paladin of tyranny doesn't get smile evil... :P I know it ain't much of a stretch to refluff it though

[aleucard]

There are a few options for Divine Gestalts, though I'm hardly the best person to ask.

First off the top of my head; Cloistered Cleric// Battle Blessing Paladin. You're still beefy enough to trade hits in melee, you have all the Casting (and more specifically, buffs) you could possibly want, you have double the Turning for whatever DMM shenanigans you wish to employ, and you have perfect opportunity to go full-tilt Knight in Shining Armor if you wish. Cleric casting for long-term buffs/utility and Paladin for immediate utility and short-term buffs. Look into ACF's if you want to focus on something a bit more.

Another possible combo would be Cloistered Cleric//Warlock. This is for if you wish to be the party DPS as well as buff-monkey. DMM Persist is not as necessary for several applications, so you're in a better position to focus on a different one if you don't have better uses for your Turn Attempts. Your ability to assist others isn't going to be as good as other options, though, so keep that in mind.

If you want to go for flavor, a Paladin//Rogue or comparably sneaky class would be an interesting choice. Could let you become one with your inner Batman. Would probably work best if you were to find an ACF that trades the Paladin's armor for something a bit more mobile, but few expect the party beefcake to be able to shiv a b@#$%, which does wonders for stealth ops. You're probably going to be Party Face in this one. Gray Guard or similar is HIGHLY recommended if you worry about your Paladin aspect being put at risk when you employ your Rogue aspect.

That's about it from me, I'm sadly not that well-versed on Divine classes.

[WinWin]

Cleric//Druid has some synergy in that both classes use wisdom. The real issue is that you're limited to one set of actions per round, so superfluous abilities are not going to provide any meaningful increase in power; 8 3rd level spells instead of 4, is meaningless if you're only ever going to need 2 or 3 during the course of an adventure.

Barbarian//Druid Has some thematic synergy and can probably tank fairly well. Cast spells, turn into bear, get angry, is a decent mid-level approach to combat. Cast spells, turn into air elemental, get angry, is a decent high level approach to combat. Spontaneous castings of Summon Nature's Ally help you fill the 'tanking' role. Physical attributes are not something you need to worry about (with the exception of Constitution), as you can rely on Wild Shape to provide decent base attributes in most cases.

Depending on the theme you are going for, you can provide similar combat support for your party as a Cloistered Cleric, via Animate Dead and Summon Monster. This will require a more focused design than Druid, simply because playing Druid is playing D&D with the difficulty turned down.

Cloistered Cleric//Rogue can summon from the shadows in order to provide guaranteed flanks in combat. It might be a decent lead in to Assassin or Master of Shrouds. You could probably attempt something similar with Warlock instead of Rogue, aiming for 'The Dead Walk' and 'Utterdark Blast' invocations in order to play up the whole Shadowy Necromancer thing.

I'm afraid I can't provide more assistance without some more detailed information about what type of character you want to play. I find building around a theme is easier. YMMV.

[Reshy]

Cleric and Druid together make one of the most frightening creatures ever: Cadzilla.

Plus, you can get Planar Shepard and still get your casting progression applied to both, everyone wins.

[eggynack]

Cleric and Druid together make one of the most frightening creatures ever: Cadzilla.
As has been mentioned, this combination creates a very powerful character, but it is not one significantly more powerful than cleric or druid is on its own. It's definitely more powerful, and persisting buffs onto wild shape forms is nifty, but there's a whole lot of crossover there, in all senses of the word.


Plus, you can get Planar Shepard and still get your casting progression applied to both, everyone wins.
I'm not really sure what you mean here. There is not any apparent combo between cleric on one side of a gestalt, and druid/planar shepherd on the other, aside from the obvious access to extra turns to use your mass of spells.

[Jeff the Green]

you have double the Turning for whatever DMM shenanigans you wish to employ

No, you don't. If you have two classes progressing the same feature, you get the better one, not both.

[eggynack]

No, you don't. If you have two classes progressing the same feature, you get the better one, not both.
Can't you swap one of the turn undeads for a turn something else that works with DMM, such that you get what is effectively double turning?

[WinWin]

There are ACF's in Drow of the Underdark and Races of the Dragon that allow Vermin and Dragons to be rebuked instead of undead, but they are not in the listed sourcebooks.

[Jeff the Green]

There are ACF's in Drow of the Underdark and Races of the Dragon that allow Vermin and Dragons to be rebuked instead of undead, but they are not in the listed sourcebooks.

Exactly. And given how powerful DMM can be without multiple pools, I wouldn't bet on the DM making an exception.

I suppose you might be able to be a cleric of a Lawful Neutral god that always grants Turn Undead, like Kelemvor, though.

[Eliana Solange]

What do you do about the arcane spell failure chance for the Warlock?
You take 24-hour buffs, probably Beguiling Influence, Spiderwalk, and See the Unseen.

Isn't the Eldrich Blast itself also subject to Arcane Spell failure in armor?

[malonkey1]

Isn't the Eldrich Blast itself also subject to Arcane Spell failure in armor?

Yes it is, but Eldritch Blast is a suboptimal choice for blasting, which is a suboptimal role anyway, if you can gestalt with something better.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Maybe something similar to this build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?275093-its-a-villain-sort-of#5), depending on what books you have available. I'd make it a Cloistered Cleric+PrCs 20// Half-Orc Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#halfOrcParagon) 1/ Paladin 19, or if your DM isn't sold on 'fighting classes' with Cloistered Cleric, go Half-Orc Paragon 3/ Paladin 17// Cloistered Cleric 3/ Church Inquisitor 3/ Radiant Servant 5/ Contemplative 9, and say he was predisposed to combat despite being raised among Sharakim (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041203a&page=3).

[sleepyphoenixx]

I like putting a 1 level dip of Shiba Protector on the passive side for a divine gestalt. Add 2 levels of Martial Rogue for Evasion and to get the feat prereqs, 2 levels of Witch Slayer for Mettle, and 2 levels of Heir of Syberis to get Mark of the Stars and Mark of the Dauntless. Wisdom to hit and damage, Mettle, Evasion, Immunity to Stun, Daze, surprise and flat footed and some save boosts work pretty well with a cleric or druid on the active side and don't cost you actions.

That leaves 13 levels to fill up. Trapsmith 1/Swiftblade 9 works pretty well. You don't really care about the arcane spells, all you need is Haste and Swiftblade's passive benefits.
Or drop Shiba Protector and take Wizard 5/Swiftblade 9 to get more arcane spellcasting power instead.

[WinWin]

Someone mentioned Bard previously in this thread. So i'll nominate Fochlucan Lyrist from Complete Adventurer. It could be tricky getting this PrC allowed in a gestalt game, but if you can do it, it's one of the strongest options around for progressing multiple class abilities.

[Eliana Solange]

Dual Progression classes are out.

My rolled attributes are 18,17,16,13,11,11 so we need to take it easy on the MAD ;-)

That basically gives me high strength, constitution and *either* Wisdom or Charisma, with the other of those two getting the 13. Dex and Int are going to have to be the dump stats, I think.

DM has decided Cloistered Cleric is OK with a martial class. ToB is also OK. Reading up on Crusader now. Interesting...

[Gildedragon]

personal fave would be:

18: Casting stat
17: Str
16: Con
13: Int (if not primary casting stat)
11: Dex / Remaining mental stat

Making your Divine a Cha caster gives you more synergy if you opt to take levels crusader for your BAB

[Jeff the Green]

Dual Progression classes are out.

My rolled attributes are 18,17,16,13,11,11 so we need to take it easy on the MAD ;-)

That basically gives me high strength, constitution and *either* Wisdom or Charisma, with the other of those two getting the 13. Dex and Int are going to have to be the dump stats, I think.

DM has decided Cloistered Cleric is OK with a martial class. ToB is also OK. Reading up on Crusader now. Interesting...

Go Wisdom > Constitution > Strength > Charisma > Intelligence = Dexterity. There are lots of ways to boost Strength, but boosting Wisdom with spell effects won't give you bonus spells.

Prestige Paladin and Bard are still good choices, though only for one level for PP.

I might go Cloistered Cleric 6/Prestige Paladin 1/Fist of Raziel +9/Prestige Bard +3/PrC 1//Fighter 1/Crusader 4/Prestige Bard 1/Fist of Raziel 1/Crusader +3/Prestige Bard +2/Crusader +8

Full casting, nearly full BAB, a 9th-level maneuver, Inspire Courage +4 6/day, and have Paladin and Bard spells on your cleric list.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Earth Dwarf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfEarth), Cloistered Cleric 20// Crusader 5/ Binder 1/ Hellreaver 5/ Crusader 9
Str 18, Dex 9, Con 19, Int 11, Wis 18, Cha 11
Heavy armor, Dwarven Waraxe, heavy shield, armor spikes, spiked gauntlet, plus mundane adventuring gear.

Bind Naberius so you get the fast ability healing, so whenever you use Heroic Sacrifice from Hellreaver 5 you go to Con 17, immediately heal back to Con 18, and you never have to adjust your HP or Fort save because of it. You'll never have to use that two rounds in a row, so you'll always be back to Con 19 before using it again. Your level-up points should go into Int, Dex, Cha, then Wis. That won't fully come online until you're 11th level, but that's what the build does, in addition to getting up to 9th level maneuvers and full Cleric spellcasting.

Your domains will depend on whether or not you can take flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) and/or traits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm). I'd get the Quick trait, and two flaws, probably Bravado and either Love of Nature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?258440-The-quot-Best-quot-Flaws#30) or Murky-Eyed. That gives you three feats starting out, so take the Planning domain for Extend Spell, get Persistent Spell and Divine Metamagic: Persistent, along with Extra Granted Maneuver. Trade your Knowledge domain for Knowledge Devotion, and your last domain should probably be something that gets a decent spell list. My personal favorites for this are the Cold and Slime domains, though for this character you may want the Wrath domain, and get the spontaneous domain casting ACF in PH2 for whichever of those you pick. If you can't use flaws or traits, the Travel domain will be almost necessary for (Lesser Rod of Extended) Longstrider in a few levels, among other benefits, still go with one of the above three for your second domain, and get Extra Granted Maneuver. Even if you can take the Quick trait but can't use flaws, the Travel domain is still going to be the go-to in place of Planning. In any case get Knowledge Devotion instead of the Knowledge domain, and at Cleric 3 trade one of your domain powers (not Planning or Travel) for the Divine Restoration ACF in Dungeonscape.

Consider dipping prestige classes on the Cleric side, following the limit of one prestige class per character level. You may want to mix in a few Crusader levels earlier to pick up some choice maneuvers/stances, delaying Hellreaver 5 by just a little bit, and in that case you can put a level of Paragnostic Apostle or Contemplative with it for another domain or a nice class feature. If you dip Contemplative get the Travel domain if you don't already have it. If dipping Paragnostic Apostle take Spatial Awareness if you have DMM: Persistent. The best spells for you to DMM: Persist will be Elation (BoED), Mass Lesser Vigor, and Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, as each will benefit the entire party. Divine Power is good, but not necessary as its BAB effect will be redundant on this character.

[Eliana Solange]

No flaws or traits, but we are allowed prestige classes on both sides of the gestalt at once.

[Eliana Solange]

Making your Divine a Cha caster gives you more synergy if you opt to take levels crusader for your BAB

I'm leaning pretty strongly toward Crusader on one side, which would indeed argue for a charisma caster on the divine side. Which do you recommend? I was looking at Favored Soul (nice saves!!!) but one thing that seems restrictive about the charisma casters is that since they don't get domains (do they?) which (a) restricts entry into some of the Divine prestige classes (Radiant Servant for example) and (b) I'm not sure what it means when they gain a Domain as part of a prestige class -- is that just wasted on them, or can they gain domains as normal clerics do in prestige classes.

[malonkey1]

I'm leaning pretty strongly toward Crusader on one side, which would indeed argue for a charisma caster on the divine side. Which do you recommend? I was looking at Favored Soul (nice saves!!!) but one thing that seems restrictive about the charisma casters is that since they don't get domains (do they?) which (a) restricts entry into some of the Divine prestige classes (Radiant Servant for example) and (b) I'm not sure what it means when they gain a Domain as part of a prestige class -- is that just wasted on them, or can they gain domains as normal clerics do in prestige classes.

a) You are correct, Favored Souls don't get a domain.

b) If you are not a Cleric or other Domain-based class, the domain's spells are just added to your divine class's list. I'm not sure on what happens with domain powers, or if you have multiple divine classes.

[eggynack]

b) If you are not a Cleric or other Domain-based class, the domain's spells are just added to your divine class's list. I'm not sure on what happens with domain powers, or if you have multiple divine classes.
Actually, the rules for this stuff are laid out in complete divine, page 20. For a spontaneous caster, the domain spells in question are merely added to the list of potential spells known, after which point they act like normal spells known, but for non-spontaneous casters, you only get to prepare each domain spell once. As for domain powers, I think you always get them, but the specifics should be listed within the ability that grants the domain. So, contemplative explicitly states that you gain the domain power, as does RSoP. If there exists a domain granting ability that acts in a different manner, I'm not currently aware of it.

[Jeff the Green]

a) You are correct, Favored Souls don't get a domain.

There are a few ways to get them. Contemplative is a very good dip for a favored soul. I also brewed this up a while ago:


Alternative Class Features and Substitution Levels
Domain Access
Level: 3rd
Replaces: If you select this class feature, you do not gain Weapon Focus in your deity's weapon or Weapon Specialization at level 12. In addition, you know one fewer spell known from the highest level you can cast. So, for example, you do not learn a new spell at 3rd-level, and at 4th level you learn a new 1st-level spell and two 2nd-level spells.
Benefit: Choose one cleric domain. If you worship a specific deity, the domain you choose must be one to which your deity grants access. You gain the granted power of the chosen domain, using your favored soul level in place of your cleric level. In addition, you can cast one domain spell of each spell level available to you per day from that domain.


b) If you are not a Cleric or other Domain-based class, the domain's spells are just added to your divine class's list. I'm not sure on what happens with domain powers, or if you have multiple divine classes.

I think the rules may be different for one or two PrCs. Holt Warden gives you Plant domain spells, for instance.

[Gildedragon]

I'm leaning pretty strongly toward Crusader on one side, which would indeed argue for a charisma caster on the divine side. Which do you recommend? I was looking at Favored Soul (nice saves!!!) but one thing that seems restrictive about the charisma casters is that since they don't get domains (do they?) which (a) restricts entry into some of the Divine prestige classes (Radiant Servant for example) and (b) I'm not sure what it means when they gain a Domain as part of a prestige class -- is that just wasted on them, or can they gain domains as normal clerics do in prestige classes.

Ask about the Dynamic Priest feat. It does leave the saves keyed of Wis, but if you're mostly buffing, then that ain't much of an issue.

You could go

Cloistered Cleric5/Prestige Paladin of X 2 (you get battle blessing)/something 3/Prestige Paladin of X 1 (3rd)/something 4//Crusader5/RKV10

Divine Grace is better than the Crusader ability, so there's an upgrade there
You are getting a special mount, but that can be traded away for:

Charging Smite (which won't add that much damage)
or
Divine Spirit (which buffs you allies)

Virtually all the paladin abilities can be swapped out (there are A LOT of paladin ACFs) so you can tinker with that PRC a fair bit.

What this turns you into is: a onetime scholarly, now devoted warrior, priest with high magical power and extraordinary martial prowess

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Crusaders don't need Cha, and Cha-based divine classes are trash compared to Wis-based divine classes. The only thing that could possibly be better than Cloistered Cleric 20 for your divine casting is Cloistered Cleric with prestige classes that advance its casting. Again, Crusaders don't need Cha.

[Jeff the Green]

Ask about the Dynamic Priest feat. It does leave the saves keyed of Wis, but if you're mostly buffing, then that ain't much of an issue.

Or be an Illumian and base them off of Strength. (This is generally better for half-casters, but works in this case.)

[Gildedragon]

Or be an Illumian and base them off of Strength. (This is generally better for half-casters, but works in this case.)

This is pretty good and doesn't need Dragonlance stuff (though it means your TU uses fewer than if you were Cha SAD)
Aeshkrau gives you a +2 to all Str checks, and +2 to CL

keying them of Dex and spending a feat for weapon finesse isn't a bad choice either (as there are more universally useful Dex skills, and it is a boost to initiative)

[Jeff the Green]

This is pretty good and doesn't need Dragonlance stuff (though it means your TU uses fewer than if you were Cha SAD)
Aeshkrau gives you a +2 to all Str checks, and +2 to CL

keying them of Dex and spending a feat for weapon finesse isn't a bad choice either (as there are more universally useful Dex skills, and it is a boost to initiative)

Yeah, it's pretty dependant on the class you're playing. Paladins, Divine Crusaders, Dusklades, and Hexblades like Aeshkrau; rangers like Urrkrau; Archivists like Aeshkrau if they're going heavy melee and Urrkrau otherwise.