Computer League of Legends LIX: Ice Cream, Stamps, and Lorn [Archive]

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Ivellius

2014-06-02, 10:09 AM

League of Legends LIX: Ice Cream, Stamps, and Lorn

Welcome! You can sign up for League of Legends here (http://signup.leagueoflegends.com/en/signup/). It's a free MOBA based on Defense of the Ancients.

If it sounds like we're speaking a foreign language in here, the glossary of LoL terms (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/League_of_Legends_terminology) can help you with that.

We maintain lists of players, sorted by server. If you are not on these lists and would like to be, please post in the thread with the following information in bold: Server (if you don't know it, it's likely the region you're in, but it's worth checking anyway), your Forum Name, and your Summoner Name. It's also a good idea to go ahead and send me a PM with such information to ensure I see it.

If no reply's been made about adding you after a day or two, first check the lists to see if you've been added. If not, feel free to post again or PM me. Any incorrectly formatted posts may be overlooked.

BR Server Huehuehuehuehuehue
Forum Name | Game Name
Draken | Draken Frosthand
Slayn82 | Slayn82

NA Server
Forum Name | Game Name
0tt3r | 0tt3r
9mm | cwcriner
Adumbration | Benefice
aethernox | joyless
Alemil | Alemil
Alter | AlterForm
Anarion | Anarion55
Anonomuss | OpticalSage
Antonok | Antonok
Arbitrarity | Arbitrarity
ArcanistSupreme | Arcanist Supreme
Archangel Yuki | Yocham
Artanis | LegacyCWAL
assassin89 | nineballcirno
Astrella | Sirroelivan
Astrro | Astrro
AtwasAwamps | AtwasAwamps
Aurenthal | Estor
Averis Vol | AverisVol
Baron Corm | Baron Corm
Baxter | Thefettered
BinaryMage | BinaryMage
Bliss Authority | Companion N00b
Blueiji | Blueiji
BobVosh | BobVosh -or- VoshBob
Bookboy | Keledrath
Brother Oni | MarineHK4861
Caffeine | excesscaffeine
Caradryan | Ying Quliang
CarpeGuitarrem | CarpeGuitarrem
Castleraven | Castleraven
cdstephens | cdstephens
Chess435 | Chess435
Copacetic | Azbu
Creed | Moarzed
CrnvorousMeece | CarnivorousMeece
Croverus | Croverus
Cute_Riolu | Cute Riolu
Dallas-Dakota | MustacheMan
Dante & Vergil | Raphiezar
Darius Macab | Hawkfrost000
Darth Mario | Darth Mario
Daverin | Daverin
Demotivated | Demotivated
Dentrag2 | Callinectes
dgnslyr | GANKERLagann
Dichotomy | Kaellin
Dire Ferret | Guvna Kit Kit
Djinn in Tonic | The Djinn
Dogmantra | Dogmantra
Don Julio Anejo | Don Julio Anejo
douglas | DouglasM
Doxkid | Doxkid
Dragonus45 | Dragonus45
Drager0 | Drager0
Dragor | Supernaturalist
Draken | Draken Frosthand
DrakeRaids | DrakeRaids057
Dralnu | TomerIsHot
Drizztfan24 | Drizztfan24
dukexx | JacksonHicks
Duos | DapperGuy
Dusk Eclipse | DuskShadow
efdf | efdf
EifieFlare | EifieFlare
Elagune | Chopstyx
Eldariel | Elealar
EndlessWrath | Andurin
Epicfaillol | Ether Master
Errandir | Ramses III
EternalMelon | EternalMelon
faith | Ferrovax101
FantomFang | FantomFang
Farix | Jiin in Tin
Faulty | FaultyClockwork
Fawkes | Count Fawkes
FeverFox | Alcopop
Firedaemon33 | Firedaemon33
fjolnir | fjolnir
Flagpole | Flagpole
Flarowon | Kruin Avabruc
Flechair | Master Zealot
FleshrakerAbuse | Archdruid21
Folytopo | Folytopo
Forrestfire | Forrestfire15
Frankelshtein | McFinkelstein
Fredaintdead | Fredthefighter
Freudianship | LeiteaSalk
Gallus | Anechois
Geigan | Geigan
Giant Panda | Le Shirrif
gimliggamer | Wizard Warlock
Gizladlo | Gizladlo
glemis | glemis
Godskook | Bethor Kookalian
Gourtox | Gourtox
Gruffard | Gruffard
Grytorm
HalfTangible | HalfTangible
hamiltond465 | Duodecimus
Hanuman | HanumanXoO
Happy Gravity | Deimosaur
Hatevah | Hatevah
heronbpv|Sérpico
Holocron Coder | Holocron
Hullabaloo | Sosrey
Incomp | Incomp
InyutheBeatIs | Believe Inyu
Istari | IstariK
Ivellius | Ivellius
Jamin | CapZich
JKTrickster | ZenTrickster
Joran | Jorana
KaizoMK | KaizoMK
Kara Kuro | RaptorKitty
Kciemir | Ghostface Ki11ah
Kettle | Kettle747
king.com | kingcom
Kinslayer | HaunterReqiuem
Kirbot | Kirbot
kmchii | kmchii
knightMARE|Sir Wiffleston
Kopaka | Portent
Kotarus | Adrameleck
Kwazey | Kwazey
Lansky | Blurbie
Laudandus | Laudandus
LegoShrimp | LegoShrimp
LightWraith | TheLightWraith
Lil Shiro | Mizz Mitchell
litewarior | litewarior
Lonely Tylenol | If I Had a Hifi
Lord_Gareth | Prince of Knives
Lord Generic | Lord Generic
LordShotGun | LordShotGun
LostEnder | LostEnder
Low-Key | TheFuzziestBear
Lunix Vandal|Lunix Vandal
lvl 1 sharnian | StarryEagle
Lyxie | Lyxie
Mabn | Gafslicher
Maeglin_Dubh | Tycho Velius
Makensha | Jarbis
MammonAzrael | MammonAzrael
Manticoran | Manticoran
Maryring | Skilvrel
MasatoHyuga | MasatoHyuga
Master_Rahl22 | Goltoth
master256 | QWERTYSTOP
Math_Mage | Mathmage
Mathematicae | Mathematicae
Mattarias, King. | Mattarias
Malmagor Andrigal | Madmal
Maxios | Maxios20
McCerberus | MCerberus
McDougal | McDouggal
Meatshield#236 | Meatshield236
Merellis | Merellis
Mike_the_Mystic | Kraemer
Milskidasith | Milskidasith
Mindfreak586 | Mindfreak586
Mirrinus | Parallaxal
Miscast_Mage | MiscastMage
Moklok | KokoBWare
Mr. Mud | Proposal
mrcarter11 | Mrcarter11
mrzomby | mrzomby
Mtg_player_zach | MtgPlayerZach
Mushroom Ninja | Mushroom Ninja
Mutant Bunny | WhollySpart
Nadevoc | Xenik
Nanoblack | IwearSILLYhats
Nargan | Naryuk
Necroticplague | Yamidamian
Neoseanster | Neoseanster
NeoVid | NeoVid
Nerocite | Nerocite
neXianXavia | neXianXavia
NoobForHire | Taishar Malkier
NotAEvilToaster | NeonPie
oblivion6 | warcrown10
Octopus Jack | Thalric
Olinser | Olinser
One Tin Soldier | beelzebubcbgptch
Otomodachi | Cyfarfod
Outsideheaven | Outsideheaven
Perkinz|Perkinz
PersonMan | Nsev
Pie Guy | Qwazes
pilvento | Kandrass
PhantomFox | PhantomFox7
PhoeKun | PhoeKun
Pocal | Pocalem
Poison Fish | Baron Von Flib
Postmodernist | Postmodernist
Protecar | Godreig
Protecar | Atk
Psychotic | SquirrelFish
Qaera | Qaera
ragingrage | ragingrage
Raistlin1040 | Sanevale
Rama | Nargus
Raroy | setokaibasmt
RationalGoblin | AtillathePun
Raven444 | Iskandarl
Reinboom| Riot Reinboom
Raveypoos | Rhaviewoos
recklessabaddon | recklessabaddon
revolver kobold | A Magic Kobold
Reynard | Duke Reynington
Ryomasa | Ryomasa
Sallera | Sallera
Saveducks | ElGrandisimo
Serpentine | Lady Serpentine
Shades of Gray | PierreAbelard
shadowwalker64 | shadowwalker65
Shadowleaf | Shadowdancing
Shadow Lord | ShadowLordgiantitp
Shadowy | DJPON3Vinyl
Samshiir | Samshiir
ShortOne | LittlePoppy
SidCoolios | Irazel
Silverraptor | Silverraptor
Siosilvar | Siosilvar
Sircarp | Sircarp
SirSigfried | LibertarianSDR
Slash_712 | Catfud
??????? | sofawall
sonofzeal | sonofzeal
St. Viers | St.Viers
Starfols | Starfols
Starswords | Starswords
SuperPanda | Lokilar
TalonDemonKing | TalonDemonKing
TechnOkami | TechnOkami
Temotei | Temotei221
Terazul | Allegretto
term1nally s1ck | silverdevilboy
tesla_pasta | generictownsman
TheAmishPirate | TheAmishPirate
Thanatos 51-50 | Thanatos Erebus
The_Ditto | Ditto11
The_Fiery_Tower | TFT Supports
TheGlowingRogue | I Glow In Dark
Themage | SirPelletheGreat
Thethan | Thethan
The Hellbug | hellbug22
The Rabbler | Paco H Jones
The Shadowmind | The Shadowmind
The Valiant Turtle | Valiant Turtle
Thrantar | Thrantar
Thrawn183 | Thrawnyboy
throtecutter | throtecutter
toasty | toastymow
Thomas Cadrew | DecadentPheonix
Tono | Tono Chou
Treayn | Treayn
tribble | Smallbluedot
Tychris1 | Tychris1
u-gotNOgame | UGNG -or- Sirius Amory
userpay | userpay
Vauron | Vauron
Volatar | The Volatar
Vwulf DeMarcus | NinjaXeq
wandiya | wandiya
Wolf_Haley | Jon Talbain
Winterwind | DreamingHeart
Winthur | Seyruun
WyvernLord | WyvernThornKing
woodzyowl | Woodzyowl
XaioTie | Tiefernan
Zabbarot | Zabbarot
Zeful | Zeful
ZeltArruin | ZeltArruin
Zemro | Shivic
ZeroNumerous | ZeroNumerous
Zeteni | Zeteni
Zinc | El Jaun Zinco
zmasterofjersey | GhosTazer
zolga | TheZolga

EU Server--West
Forum Name | Game Name
Acromos | Crannoch
Adumbration | Adumbration
Anonomuss | Anonomuss
Azimov | Sidhe de Athame
Brother Oni | MarineHK4861
Cheers | Sam vds
Cyborg Mage | Cyborg Mage98
Eldariel | Elealar
Even Human | SlyGuyMcFly
Gauntlet | Isva
GreenSerpent | Darius or Draven
HalfDragonCube | giantmudkip
fishjam | fishjam
Krazzman | Viskerin
Maryring | Skilvrel
Maxymiuk | Maxymiuk
Mc. Lovin | B1GB1RDB4G3L
Miscast_Mage | MiscastMage
monkeyboyinc | monkeyboyinc
Morph Bark | Morpheus Bob
Nargan | Naryuk
Outsideheaven | Outsideheaven
PersonMan | Scarge
Reb46 | Reb46
Reynard | Duke Reyn
Runhidesurvive | Jmack10
Saph | StarSaph
Socratov | Mbutu
shadowwalker64 | shadowwalker64
Talesin | Fridgecake
term1nally s1ck | Silverdevilboy
That'd_be_me | AntiLocke
TheGeckoKing | Alpharis Omega
Volatar | VolatarUK
Winterwind | DreamingHeart
Ziren | Zirenoid
zolga | MasterZolga

EU Server--Nordic & East
Forum Name | Game Name
Dada | Scrattlebeard
darksolitaire | Darksolitaire
Posca | LDRC
Rockbird | Rockbird
Werekat | Werekat

EU Server--Unspecified
Forum Name | Game Name
Abakus | Terpfen
Alemil | Alemil
Ayra | Ayramatao
Darwin | DarwinBeGood
Endoperez | Endoperez
Heliomance | Sidhe de Grian
Kurrel | GrinningOni
littlebottom | Littlebottom
lord_khaine | Lord_khaine
Narazil | Narazil
Narkis | Narkis
Penthar | Malderon
Raviepoos | Skittles Unicorn
Shadowleaf | AncientPharma
Voidhawk | Sidhe ne Awk
Zefir | Einerwie
Zombywoof | Zombywoof

LA North Server
Forum Name | Game Name
Dusk Eclipse | DuskSoul
UrashimaJamez | UrashimaJamez

SEA Server
Forum Name | Game Name
abadguy | Smite Thy Enemy

Oceanic Server
Forum Name | Game Name
Red Rubber Band | HeWhoIsJohn

Turkey (TR) Server
Forum Name | Game Name
Eloel | [unknown]

MUMBLE
Download here! (http://mumble.sourceforge.net/)
Our main means of communication is a Mumble server, playing host to a variety of games, including LoL. We're quite a tight knit community, get to know us! Hanging about is a good way to find a game, and if you don't fancy playing something there's always a good chance of a friendly chat. Contact Djinn_in_Tonic via PM if you have a question or want to donate money to keep the server running.
Address: fish.mumbleboxes.com
Port: 36003

Admins: Djinn_in_Tonic (Djinn); Darth Mario; ShortOne (LittlePoppy, Raven); Dogmantra; Nano (Nanoceraptor).

STREAMS
Some of us run streams. You can watch them here.
Legoshrimp (http://www.twitch.tv/legoshrimp)
McDouggal (http://www.twitch.tv/McDouggal)
Silverraptor (http://www.livestream.com/silverrapter?t=527242)
The Fiery Tower (http://www.twitch.tv/the_fiery_tower)

GUIDES & CHAMPION OVERVIEWS
Sometimes people write guides and post them in this thread. Other times pro players write guides that people then post in this thread. They often end up here.
Champion Introductions:
Thanks to Eldariel, Playgrounders in Thread XLV (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277003) wrote blurbs to introduce players to their favorite champions. Yay.
Ahri (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14981225&postcount=520) by SlyGuyMcFly
Alistar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15079170&postcount=297) by Joran
Amumu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14991206&postcount=727) by Ivellius
Anivia (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14971268&postcount=332) by Eldariel
Annie (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14972307&postcount=366) by endoperez
Caitlyn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14973242&postcount=375) by McDougal
Cho'Gath (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14973137&postcount=374) by Happy Gravity
Janna (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14976717&postcount=424) by Winthur
Fizz (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14971765&postcount=345) by PersonMan
Hecarim (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14973331&postcount=377) by Arbitrarity
Irelia (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14980231&postcount=502) by aethernox
Kennen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14973033&postcount=372) by Anarion
LeBlanc (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15049895&postcount=15) by Miscast_Mage
Lulu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14975266&postcount=413) by Kris on a Stick
Nasus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14971542&postcount=340) by TheShrike
Nocturne (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15057985&postcount=97) by Darius Macab
Olaf (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14972935&postcount=371) by dgnslyr
Rengar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14974241&postcount=387) by ChaosOS
Singed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14976931&postcount=427) by QWERTSTOP
Skarner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14984458&postcount=591) by TechnOkami
Sona (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14971676&postcount=344) by Forrestfire
Tristana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14975078&postcount=409) by Math_Mage
Vi (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14976557&postcount=423) by Pherinos
Zyra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14982344&postcount=541) by The Fiery Tower

General Guides:
A General Guide to Support (http://tpesports.net/index.php?site=articles&action=show&articlesID=32), by Math Mage
Guide to General Common Jungler Set-Ups (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12409551&postcount=575), by Mtg_player_zach
Small Guide to Jungle Counterpicking (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12379254&postcount=98), by Winthur
General Guide to AD Carries (http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=9234)
Seizing the fourth digit: Playing your way out of Elo Hell. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=341821) by Math_Mage
Faulty and Raistlin's Quick Build Database: Notes and Stuff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10942497&postcount=1004) by Faulty and Raistlin
Turning Skill Into Elo: Solo Queue Mindset And Methodology (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1220673) by MathMage
How to be a Good Team Leader (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1374492) by Darth Mario

Specific Champion Guides:
Be warned. These guides are, by and large, outdated. Much of the information referenced in these guides has been made obsolete as a result of League's natural patch cycle and changes from Season to Season. If you're looking for information on a champion, you'll have better luck at SoloMid.net (http://solomid.net/guides.php?champ=&sort=2&display=4&x=98&y=9) or LolPro.com (http://LoLPro.com). Alternatively, ask the thread!
Riven 101 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12579737&postcount=204), by Arbitrarity
Highly Artistic Blitzcrank guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12380155&postcount=115), by Dogmantra
Laser Bear Udyr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9657101&postcount=39), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Rammus: Can't touch this (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=258919), by Math_Mage
Twitch (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board
[URL="http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10267058&postcount=1448), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Jungle Akali (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10498621&postcount=1358) by Djinn
How to play everyone's favourite Lightning Squirrel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10518034&postcount=154) by Dogmantra
Lee Sin (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=636475) by Dralnu
Super Serious Rumble Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11052926&postcount=904) by Dogmantra
OH SNAP Morgana Can Jungle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11295698&postcount=1238) by Dogmantra
Anivia Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11514141&postcount=845) by Eldariel
Tristana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11938481&postcount=1029) by MathMage
CLASSY VIDEOS FOR CLASSY PEOPLE*
Watching these videos makes you a classier person. Fact.
Jungle Janna! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC6wm9iaNmM)
How to Win Every Game in League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrsTE1vpoXM)
Panic at the Nexus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WlCbaLI3I)
Sunfire Cape Sunday (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgjfX6crjrg)
Season One Trailer with Commentary (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/news/season-one-trailer-commentary)
D-Town (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wHp4VJ47v0)
Insanity Mix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGKN1Adzckk&feature=related)
(Truly, Truly) Outrageous (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC7S05vI-BU&feature=related)
I'm just a noob (Ryze Ryze Ryze again) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpr1T-pgaZY&feature=related)
e.o.n Shen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHs_cGUPQ3M&feature=related)
Vendrim-Ionia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry3E2UQMe3k&hd=1)
Pwn ur FACE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf9VSDt0EN4)
Your -Epic- Dreamhack comes true! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKCs1CyBFLg)
Ezreal Custom Skin Spotlight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn-HoAPlg-c)
I Just Got Ganked (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpNVN33fj4Y&feature=channel_video_title)
Keep Feeding (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaR0frKc4a0)
Champion Rap Battles -- Brolaf vs. Gentleman Cho'Gath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ-r300BVFI)
Combinasion BOOM! League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwzsXR4sM_Y)
All in the Cards (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9d3342IXSs)
No One Ganks Like Garen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD4uiTQsRJg)
Rammus Taunts Everyone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-8Q4PM4PXM)

COMICS AND PICS
It's like your eyes are getting a massage.LoL Comic (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=48169) by Elagune
Learn Your Alphabet (http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6264/g28376.png) by Dogmantra and Pierreabelard (with a mention in Summoner Showcase #36 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy7JWV-HA28&feature=feedu)!)
Chibi Champions (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=763895) by pika7
Gender Swaps (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=606416) by ShowMeYourMoves
Champion Flowchart Guides (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=608154) by Renekton Bot
Patch Day Comic (http://i.imgur.com/kHtwk.jpg) by DaemianFF

TRAVEL BACK IN TIME: PREVIOUS THREADS
Proof we're not all experiencing collective hallucinations.
League of Legends LVIII: URFworld (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17244032&postcount=1)
League of Legends LVII: A Song of Loss and Ire - A Feast for Cho (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?331764-League-of-Legends-LVII-A-Song-of-Loss-and-Ire-A-Feast-for-Cho)
League of Legends lVI: ME BRO! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325851)
League of Legends LV: A Song of Loss and Ire - A Storm of Wards (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319175)
League of Legends: We will LIV, they will die (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312431)
League of Legends LIII: A Song of Loss and Ire - A Clash of Pings (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307325)
League of Legends LII: Sin of the Blind Monk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302528)
League of Legends LI: A Song of Loss and Ire - A Game of Throws (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298396)
League of Legends L: Lucian's Lost Love's Luxurious Lantern Lodge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293376)
League of Legends XLIX: Why are there snowballs in a jungle? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289027)
League of Legends XLVIII: A Broken Spine is Just a Twist of Fate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15339231#post15339231)
League of Legends XLVII: Legend of Poro - Retcons on Ice (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282669)
League of Legends XLVI: Everybody now comes from Freljord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279408)
League of Legends XLV: They ruined the King AND his blade! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277003)
League of Legends XLIV: *SQUAWK* Who's there? *SQUAWK* League of Legends XLIV who? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273412)
League of Legends XLIII: Now with 100% more Leagues. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270068)
League of Legends XLII: I Hope The New Champ Is Vi-able (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266201)
League of Legends XLI: Fish Are Friends, Not Food (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263722)
League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'till Morello Gets Gold (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261213)
League of Legends XXXIX: Harrowing in the Playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14079780#post14079780)
League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13921041)
League of Legends XXXVII: Thread Name Delayed for Further Testing on PBE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253343)
League of Legends XXXVI: Thread Now Invisible When You're Not Looking (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250948)
League of Legends XXXV: Jayce, the Defender of Soon™ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248760)
League of Legends XXXIV: No Exceptions (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246004)
League of Legends XXXIII: Game of Mundo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13142848#post13142848)
League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237600)
League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF And Janna! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234631)
League of Legends XXX: Must be Summoner Level 18 to View (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231927)
League of Legends XXIX: Are Nerfs Vayne In This Grave Situation? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229460)
League of Legends XXVIII: Ahri-Vederci, Dodge. Hello, Viktory. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12466887)
League of Legends XXVII: Your Sister's Hotter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225730)
League of Legends XXVI: We've officially jumped the shark (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223894)
League of Legends XXV: Who is your Summoner, and what does he do? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221849)
League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219436)
League of Legends XXIII: gunbladeface.jpg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217744)
League of Legends XXII: Teamwork OP, Nerf Nao (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215725)
League of Legends XXI: For The Love Of God Amumu, Stop Crying! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213794)
League of Legends XX: Riot's in the Playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211977)
League of Legends XIX: 15 million players, and nary a Morgana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210332)
League of Legends: XVIII: ┻━┻ ︵（╯°□°）╯ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207908)
League of Legends XVII: Gondor Has No Tank, Gondor Needs No Tank (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205488)
League of Legends XVI: Alas, Poor Game Balance, I Knew Him, Morello (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203298)
League of Legends XV: Robots Are Better Than Trees (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201024)
League of Legends XIV: We're So Broken That We're OP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198948)
League of Legends XIII: Our Skill is Hard to Deny (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196765)
League of Legends XII: It's Worth It Because I Said So In The Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194886)
League of Legends XI: It's Hard to Post Like This in Heels (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192695)
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League of Legends IX: New Thread Available! Only 6300 IP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188076)
League of Legends VIII: Gali-Os: They're idolicious! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185516)
League of Legends 7: Truly, Truly Outrageous! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182486)
League of Legends 6: Jannaaaaaaaaaa! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178334)
League of Legends 5: Tall Grass Used Garen! DEMACIAAA! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173805)
League of Legends 4:CAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAW (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169616)
League of Legends 3: You only need to click once (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164008s)
League of Legends Goes Where It Pleases 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158135)
League Of Legends: We post where we please. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139094)

Reinboom

2014-06-02, 10:46 AM

You still have "LVIII: URFworld" at the top of your post.

Antonok

2014-06-02, 10:51 AM

Post for the check mark.

Also, I hate ranked -_-

Anarion

2014-06-02, 11:08 AM

You still have "LVIII: URFworld" at the top of your post.

Let's just leave it, see how long it lasts.

Also, general question for the thread. I generally play AD carries that are pretty safe or at least mobile: Cait and Trist are probably my two best. I've recently been trying to learn Twitch and getting my butt kicked. I understand in theory that if I can farm well and get to a point where I'm strong, I have the ability to sneak around and ambush people, but I feel like I'm not understanding how to do his aggression right. As best I understand my own problems, they are

1. I don't know how to do good trades in lane. I feel like if I stealth up for a good opener, I'm vulnerable to all the enemy ADC skills and everything the support can throw at me. But if I save my stealth to get out, my trades are just weaker than most other ADs due to short range and less burst.
2. I feel like I'm doing something wrong in my midgame positioning. I've watched several pro games where somebody with just a BoRK stealthed on top of someone and then opened up with everything for a kill. I try to do the same thing and end up doing maybe 2/3 of someone's hp before they get away, which often results in me getting killed a bit later because I've used all my stuff but didn't get the kill that would allow the team to push for an advantage.

Basically, I have an understanding that the champ rewards aggressive plays, but I'm doing something wrong in making them and I'm not sure what.

Qwertystop

2014-06-02, 11:34 AM

Though nobody voted for this title, I like it.

Olinser

2014-06-02, 11:38 AM

Post for the check mark.

Also, I hate ranked -_-

I ran into what I call the 'Law of Declared Smurfs' last night.

That is, if anybody (at ANY rank or level) in pre-game chat declares themselves to be a smurf, it is 100% guaranteed that they will suck.

Coupled nicely with the guy that I let support because he said he 'mained support', and at the end of the game looked him up, and he has a 31% win rate on Thresh.

I'm not even kidding - 31% win rate on Thresh. How is that even possible?

Ashen Lilies

2014-06-02, 11:49 AM

Let's just leave it, see how long it lasts.

Also, general question for the thread. I generally play AD carries that are pretty safe or at least mobile: Cait and Trist are probably my two best. I've recently been trying to learn Twitch and getting my butt kicked. I understand in theory that if I can farm well and get to a point where I'm strong, I have the ability to sneak around and ambush people, but I feel like I'm not understanding how to do his aggression right. As best I understand my own problems, they are

1. I don't know how to do good trades in lane. I feel like if I stealth up for a good opener, I'm vulnerable to all the enemy ADC skills and everything the support can throw at me. But if I save my stealth to get out, my trades are just weaker than most other ADs due to short range and less burst.
2. I feel like I'm doing something wrong in my midgame positioning. I've watched several pro games where somebody with just a BoRK stealthed on top of someone and then opened up with everything for a kill. I try to do the same thing and end up doing maybe 2/3 of someone's hp before they get away, which often results in me getting killed a bit later because I've used all my stuff but didn't get the kill that would allow the team to push for an advantage.

Basically, I have an understanding that the champ rewards aggressive plays, but I'm doing something wrong in making them and I'm not sure what.

I'm only a mediocre Twitch player, but he's one of my favored ADCs along with Sivir, so here's the advice I can give.

1. Generally I initiate small trades in lane with only a Venom Cask into Autos into an Expunge when they retreat out of auto-range. You can either initiate this on your own if you feel like you have sufficiently good positioning, or if your support lands something like a Death Sentence or Howling Gale or Aqua Prison in lane. Stealth is something I generally save for a planned all-in, like an approaching jungler gank or Sona Ult or Thresh/Leona/Ali jumping directly into their face (after previously indicating they wish to do so).

2. I don't know how good your micro is, but something like this might just fall down to better execution. If the enemy is trying to run away then you really need to be able to have good orbwalking to consistently put yourself ahead of their escape while still outputting damage. Standing still and relying just on sheer burst is going to lose you the kill unless you're /really/ far ahead. I also generally don't use Twitch Ult for solo-ambushes unless I desperately need the range to close out the kill. I feel like Rat-a-tat-tat is always worth holding on to just for the teamfight power it gives you.

@^: Thresh can stomp soloqueue off of Death Sentence alone, but a lot of his more intricate play (especially involving the lantern) that makes him so powerful requires communication or very good instincts on the part of the Thresh and his teammates. Especially with the nerfs to his damage and tankiness, Thresh is significantly less effective in soloqueue than teamplay, doubly so if you can't Death Sentences.

He's one of those champions who's "OP" because he sees a lot of pro play and because we've all been against that Thresh who landed every hook and solo-carried his game, but he has a much higher skill floor than Leona or Braum and a bunch of use cases that aren't immediately obvious to those in lower brackets.

Antonok

2014-06-02, 12:01 PM

I ran into what I call the 'Law of Declared Smurfs' last night.

That is, if anybody (at ANY rank or level) in pre-game chat declares themselves to be a smurf, it is 100% guaranteed that they will suck.

Coupled nicely with the guy that I let support because he said he 'mained support', and at the end of the game looked him up, and he has a 31% win rate on Thresh.

I'm not even kidding - 31% win rate on Thresh. How is that even possible?

My problem is I had a string of losses in my placements and got put in bronze 3. Had a string of wins that got me to 90lp, then another string of 5 losses that saw me demoted to bronze 4. Just finished getting BACK to bronze 3.

I really wish people would stop trying to baron with all 5 of the enemy team up and all mia.

Dusk Eclipse

2014-06-02, 12:19 PM

I feel your paint Antonok, it seems everytime I'm about to get my promos out of bronze 1 I then get into a loosing streak that prevents me from climbing out of bronze.

Togath

2014-06-02, 02:14 PM

Though nobody voted for this title, I like it.

There were three votes for it, unless I misread?:smallconfused:

Ivellius

2014-06-02, 02:18 PM

There were three votes for it, unless I misread?:smallconfused:

I suspect the comment is aimed at my reordering of the title? The original suggestion was "Ice Cream, Lorn, and Stamps," which works alphabetically but seems to bury the punchline.

It's kind of like how the original "Loss and Ire" title votes were for "A Song of Ire and Flame" instead.

But yeah, everyone hates ranked. It's why I put off my provisional matches as long as possible.

Qwertystop

2014-06-02, 02:32 PM

Togath

2014-06-02, 02:33 PM

I suspect the comment is aimed at my reordering of the title? The original suggestion was "Ice Cream, Lorn, and Stamps," which works alphabetically but seems to bury the punchline.

It's kind of like how the original "Loss and Ire" title votes were for "A Song of Ire and Flame" instead.

But yeah, everyone hates ranked. It's why I put off my provisional matches as long as possible.

Ah, I'd missed that.
Also, on the subject of ranked; are the summoner icon/skin/etc. rewards rewarded for every season of ranked?
I've been trying to decide if I should try it yet(I do, admittedly, need a few runes, one red, yellow, and three quintessences[I have one empty slot, but my current two are tier 1 ones], but I can't imagine that they would make too much of an impact):smallsmile:

Godskook

2014-06-02, 02:37 PM

1. I don't know how to do good trades in lane. I feel like if I stealth up for a good opener, I'm vulnerable to all the enemy ADC skills and everything the support can throw at me.

If you're vulnerable to everything from both the ADC and support, you're either positioning flatout wrong or not waiting on your support to initiate the level of aggression you're trying to do. The first is solved by stop doing that; the second, by learning when your support wants to do that level of aggression and following his lead better.

But if I save my stealth to get out, my trades are just weaker than most other ADs due to short range and less burst.

The good twitches I've seen tended to avoid trades, and go for all-ins at strategic moments, where Twitch's burst is actually higher than most ADCs, due to how Expunge works with his kit(and that all his burst is tied up in that one skill).

2. I feel like I'm doing something wrong in my midgame positioning. I've watched several pro games where somebody with just a BoRK stealthed on top of someone and then opened up with everything for a kill. I try to do the same thing and end up doing maybe 2/3 of someone's hp before they get away, which often results in me getting killed a bit later because I've used all my stuff but didn't get the kill that would allow the team to push for an advantage.

#assassinproblems

The challenge with watching LCS-level play is that you gotta realize, not only do they "know their burst", but they also farm better than you. Completing BoRK 2 minutes earlier opens up kill opportunities that I'm just not capable of taking because I'd be sitting on Cutlass+2dagger.

Basically, I have an understanding that the champ rewards aggressive plays, but I'm doing something wrong in making them and I'm not sure what.

He actually doesn't reward generally aggressive play like...Caitlyn would. He rewards *TIMED* aggression very well, though. As in, its less about how frequently you trade and more about the fact that they're probably dead or backing every time you do find a good trade opportunity.

Olinser

2014-06-02, 02:51 PM

If you're vulnerable to everything from both the ADC and support, you're either positioning flatout wrong or not waiting on your support to initiate the level of aggression you're trying to do. The first is solved by stop doing that; the second, by learning when your support wants to do that level of aggression and following his lead better.

The good twitches I've seen tended to avoid trades, and go for all-ins at strategic moments, where Twitch's burst is actually higher than most ADCs, due to how Expunge works with his kit(and that all his burst is tied up in that one skill).

#assassinproblems

The challenge with watching LCS-level play is that you gotta realize, not only do they "know their burst", but they also farm better than you. Completing BoRK 2 minutes earlier opens up kill opportunities that I'm just not capable of taking because I'd be sitting on Cutlass+2dagger.

He actually doesn't reward generally aggressive play like...Caitlyn would. He rewards *TIMED* aggression very well, though. As in, its less about how frequently you trade and more about the fact that they're probably dead or backing every time you do find a good trade opportunity.

Also the fact that Twitch relies rather heavily on having his team peel for him - which may be more or less likely depending on your ELO bracket.

Twitch is EXTREMELY vulnerable to bruisers with a gap closer - his team has to be smart and quick enough to keep them off him.

Forum Explorer

2014-06-02, 02:58 PM

I ran into what I call the 'Law of Declared Smurfs' last night.

That is, if anybody (at ANY rank or level) in pre-game chat declares themselves to be a smurf, it is 100% guaranteed that they will suck.

Coupled nicely with the guy that I let support because he said he 'mained support', and at the end of the game looked him up, and he has a 31% win rate on Thresh.

I'm not even kidding - 31% win rate on Thresh. How is that even possible?

No kidding. There is nothing more frustrating then hearing someone say, 'I main blank and can't do any other role'. I mean I suck at ADC, but I can still play it. Even win games if my team doesn't need me to carry. And that's only one single role.

I feel your paint Antonok, it seems everytime I'm about to get my promos out of bronze 1 I then get into a loosing streak that prevents me from climbing out of bronze.

I finally, finally made it to Silver 5. It's really a matter of luck if you'll get a team that is actually decent or not.

Lix Lorn

2014-06-02, 03:25 PM

Hey guys what going on in-
:smalleek:
:smallredface:
http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w586/LixieLorn/Avatars/SolarDesk_zpsea71528b.png
(muffled)
I am honoured.

NineThePuma

2014-06-02, 03:40 PM

Though nobody voted for this title, I like it.

Interestingly enough, title honoring Lix won 5 to 4 since Math_Mage changed his vote.

And, really, I wonder what Olinser has against Ice Cream and possibly Love.

Joran

2014-06-02, 04:18 PM

Interestingly enough, title honoring Lix won 5 to 4 since Math_Mage changed his vote.

And, really, I wonder what Olinser has against Ice Cream and possibly Love.

If I was around, I would have voted for it. It took a couple read-throughs to understand it, but I like it.

P.S. The epic downfall of Nukeduck and Mithy are the stuff of Shakespearean tragedies. It's really quite astonishing how many different ways they can fail. On the flip side, maybe we'll see Alex Ich mid again.

PersonMan

2014-06-02, 04:30 PM

But yeah, everyone hates ranked. It's why I put off my provisional matches as long as possible.

Well, it's not like you have to do them. Just be like me and don't play Ranked for ages until you suddenly start because something makes you want to.

Lord_Gareth

2014-06-02, 04:31 PM

Gimmie my check mark.

Also: AP Kog, how bad an idea is this?

Togath

2014-06-02, 04:35 PM

Gimmie my check mark.

Also: AP Kog, how bad an idea is this?

At least in season 3, it was one of his common builds, if I remember correctly.

mrcarter11

2014-06-02, 04:49 PM

Well, it's not like you have to do them. Just be like me and don't play Ranked for ages until you suddenly start because something makes you want to.

Kinda where I'm at as well.

Gimmie my check mark.

Also: AP Kog, how bad an idea is this?

AP Kog can work fine. It's actually pretty fun to since you just murder things from high range.

Math_Mage

2014-06-02, 04:51 PM

Gimmie my check mark.

Also: AP Kog, how bad an idea is this?
On a scale of 1 to 10, it's about a 2.
...:smallwink:

Godskook

2014-06-02, 04:52 PM

Also: AP Kog, how bad an idea is this?

Its not great, although probably better now that Q has longer range on it. Doesn't lane well and doesn't transition into a thing that's just not currently favored late-game. As an AP DPS, he's basically a longer-ranged Kayle with almost none of her utility.

Granted, he's *REALLY* fun with Athene's and some CDR and some decent hard-hitting Rs, but I don't think its reasonable to get that up and running on him.

Eldariel

2014-06-02, 04:58 PM

Its not great, although probably better now that Q has longer range on it. Doesn't lane well and doesn't transition into a thing that's just not currently favored late-game. As an AP DPS, he's basically a longer-ranged Kayle with almost none of her utility.

Granted, he's *REALLY* fun with Athene's and some CDR and some decent hard-hitting Rs, but I don't think its reasonable to get that up and running on him.

Froggen keeps stomping solo queue with him so in that sense he's viable. Probably not quite there competitively but fine on solo queue level provided you know how to play the poke game (e.g. know Nidalee).

Ivellius

2014-06-02, 05:04 PM

Interestingly enough, title honoring Lix won 5 to 4 since Math_Mage changed his vote.

I didn't post about it in the previous thread, but I counted myself as voting for it as well. I liked the wordplay.

Well, it's not like you have to do them. Just be like me and don't play Ranked for ages until you suddenly start because something makes you want to.

This is what I did, actually--didn't play Ranked until last season just because none of my in-person friends played. When they hit 30 and started doing Ranked so did I.

Joran

2014-06-02, 05:09 PM

Well, it's not like you have to do them. Just be like me and don't play Ranked for ages until you suddenly start because something makes you want to.

And that something is when they announce what the rewards are... Then I get into Silver with my placement games then lack the time or determination to play more.

Siosilvar

2014-06-02, 05:11 PM

Gimmie my check mark.

Also: AP Kog, how bad an idea is this?

I have a friend who got to Plat playing only AP Kog with Clarity/Flash and 0 CDR. I'm sure you can see how to improve on his build.

Cogwheel

2014-06-02, 05:13 PM

I have a friend who got to Plat playing only AP Kog with Clarity/Flash and 0 CDR. I'm sure you can see how to improve on his build.

Do this but with Garen?

PersonMan

2014-06-02, 05:26 PM

Also: AP Kog, how bad an idea is this?

Unless things have changed, AP Kog is in many ways Mana'Maw. You build up a Tear, get Archangel's/Deathcap/Voidstaff, maybe Rod of Ages, I dunno, then press R late game. You sometimes use your other abilities - your Q actually exists late game now, and your W can be useful for when you're waiting for your R's mana cost to drop below one million, but for the most part you are Living Artillery.

Kinda where I'm at as well.

Well, I got my motivation to start last June-ish, and now play Ranked almost exclusively (on EUW that is).

mrcarter11

2014-06-02, 05:29 PM

Well, I got my motivation to start last June-ish, and now play Ranked almost exclusively (on EUW that is).

Yeah I figure at some point something will inspire me to play ranked, but until then, I'm good with not having that extra hassle.

Eldariel

2014-06-02, 05:33 PM

AP Kog really wants Rylai's. Allows forcing chain hits with ult, among other things. Q slow is really strong too now.

Cogwheel

2014-06-02, 05:35 PM

but for the most part you are Living Artillery

I thought the term was Orbital Bombarfment.

Renegade Paladin

2014-06-02, 06:19 PM

I thought the term was Orbital Bombarfment.

That was bad and you should feel bad. :smalltongue:

Ashen Lilies

2014-06-02, 07:13 PM

Tear/Athenes(sweet, sweet cdr)/Rylai's/Liandry's/Void is probably a pretty solid AP kog build.

Olinser

2014-06-02, 07:34 PM

Unless things have changed, AP Kog is in many ways Mana'Maw. You build up a Tear, get Archangel's/Deathcap/Voidstaff, maybe Rod of Ages, I dunno, then press R late game. You sometimes use your other abilities - your Q actually exists late game now, and your W can be useful for when you're waiting for your R's mana cost to drop below one million, but for the most part you are Living Artillery.

Well, I got my motivation to start last June-ish, and now play Ranked almost exclusively (on EUW that is).

I go through cycles. I'll play games, then run into some dregs of the human race that make me stop for a while. Then I'll begin anew.

Anarion

2014-06-02, 07:52 PM

Twitch advice much appreciated. I'll take it as a sign that I need to just work on his timing and mechanics.

Don Julio Anejo

2014-06-02, 08:46 PM

Antonok

2014-06-02, 08:52 PM

I'm curious if Twitch is worth learning. My current champion pool for ADC is Caitlyn/Ezreal/Tristana, I can do OK on Ashe and Lucian and currently learning MF. As you can tell, I prefer long-ranged ADC's that can trade and/or poke well.

Twitch with ult has longer range then cait and ez, and can absolutely tear thru a team due to its piercing effect. Come out of stealth with a W and a 2.00/2,50 AS and its GG.

My problem with him is GETTING to that stage.

Don Julio Anejo

2014-06-02, 09:05 PM

Twitch with ult has longer range then cait and ez, and can absolutely tear thru a team due to its piercing effect. Come out of stealth with a W and a 2.00/2,50 AS and its GG.

My problem with him is GETTING to that stage.
Well, I can usually get there with Ashe, and that's saying a lot. I'm more worried about getting 2v1 dived by like a Zed and Shyvanna while my team happily chases a Lee Sin through the jungle. You know, the typical solo queue experience.

Lord_Gareth

2014-06-02, 11:40 PM

So, just purchased Tristana on a whim and played her.

My god, SO CUTE!

Forrestfire

2014-06-02, 11:45 PM

Purchased... Tristana... :smalleek::smallconfused:

Coulda sworn I made you get the free champions already.

Legoshrimp

2014-06-02, 11:47 PM

Well, I can usually get there with Ashe, and that's saying a lot. I'm more worried about getting 2v1 dived by like a Zed and Shyvanna while my team happily chases a Lee Sin through the jungle. You know, the typical solo queue experience.

if that is your worry the champion you play doesn't really matter.

Also twitch is strong now, but is probably going to be nerfed soon, so you might not want to try learning him.

Lord_Gareth

2014-06-02, 11:59 PM

Purchased... Tristana... :smalleek::smallconfused:

Coulda sworn I made you get the free champions already.

She was not free. She cost quite a bit of IP for me, actually.

Forrestfire

2014-06-03, 12:07 AM

She is free. (https://www.facebook.com/leagueoflegends/app_208195102528120)

I could have sworn I told you way back. I guess I didn't, or we forgot. Oh well.

Looks like they removed the link to that promotion from the client, weird.

At least she's only 1350.

Olinser

2014-06-03, 12:12 AM

if that is your worry the champion you play doesn't really matter.

Also twitch is strong now, but is probably going to be nerfed soon, so you might not want to try learning him.

Riot has already said Twitch and Lucian are both on the chopping block. Both of them have been just barely below 100% pick/ban for the entire first 2 weeks of LCS across both NA and EU (both picked/banned in I believe 47 of 48 games).

Besides the fact that whenever any champion approaches that level they always take a nerf, Riot has flat out stated they're looking at them for changes.

Given nothing has changed yet on the PBE, probably not 4.9, but I'd look for them to be nerfed in 4.10 probably.

Ashen Lilies

2014-06-03, 12:25 AM

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x280/kriskatarn/LoL%20Screencaps/CordonBleuIntensifies_zps2a6be3e8.png

I didn't even have to use my ult for it. Tibbers + four instant autos (with Hydra) on four people will do that. Thanks Kook for the teddy bear! :smallbiggrin:

Antonok

2014-06-03, 01:02 AM

Besides the fact that whenever any champion approaches that level they always take a nerf, Riot has flat out stated they're looking at them for changes.

*glares accusingly at renekton*

NineThePuma

2014-06-03, 02:37 AM

Yael

2014-06-03, 02:40 AM

Yeah, Renekton's in a good spot? Just "buffed" him?
Better nerf Thresh :C

Godskook

2014-06-03, 02:59 AM

Renekton is unhealthy. They acknowledge this. Nerfing renekton into the ground would mean that SOMEONE ELSE would become the measuring stick by which viability is measured.

I would prefer it to not be Jayce.

Technically, they like Renekton's overall game health, just not that he's limiting top lane as much as he is.

And everyone would prefer it to not be Jayce.

Krazzman

2014-06-03, 04:36 AM

Since I am far from playing ranked or even normal games... what is that about jayce and renekton?

NineThePuma

2014-06-03, 05:35 AM

Teemo (and now Ryze, but Teemo is more classical) is the epitome of ranged top laners: good trading, and most melee bruisers hate him. He's irritating to chase, near impossible to zone, and no matter how behind he is he can have a significant impact on the game.

Renekton is the epitome of bruiser top laners; he's big, he's mean, he will ruin your day with incredibly strong trading, sustain, and safety (especially if he can get the second dash).

Jayce is the worst aspects of Teemo and Renekton combined on crack, in terms of top lane health. On release he had strong, near unanswerable poke and wave clear, with a ridiculous amount of punishment and disengage. His gameplay pattern was such that it gutted the champion pool down to "Jayce and Irelia" though there were probably a few more, most of my memory of that period can be summed up with "I'm not going to go top. I would rather duo mid than deal with THAT." Jayce has all the poking and long range harassment of Teemo, with the unanswerable trading of Renekton (melee leap-onto and knock away) that makes him a pain in the ass to fight, even today after a significant number of nerfs. The ONLY reason he's not still incredibly dominant is that the meta has shifted enough to make a lack of tank in toplane unviable due to the prevalence of assassin mids and especially jungles.

Nerfing Renekton and shifting the top lane gameplay such that the "Renekton Bar" (Ie, the bar judging viability of a top lane champion based on whether or not they can survive laning against a renekton) becomes invalid would cause the league community to find a DIFFERENT champion to look toward as the new renekton, and while there's a distinct possibility that person could be literally anyone else, the fact that Jayce is even a possibility makes me love Renekton. It has nothing to do with the gator himself, and everything to do with the fact that if he were to be dethroned, the possibility of Jayce taking his place exists.

Talesin

2014-06-03, 05:38 AM

Since I am far from playing ranked or even normal games... what is that about jayce and renekton?

Renekton is currently a very strong top laner who is very safe in lane, due to his double dash E and the heal from his Q. He doesn't really have a counter so he's a good first pick for a team.

Riot have basically stated that he's the yard stick that is keeping the top lane meta in check but if they nerf him then someone else will take his place, such as Jayce. I whole heartedly agree that i'd rather be playing against Renekton than Jayce as being destroyed while i'm under my turret is beyond frustrating. I'd rather have the chance of picking up a kill if I can outplay a diving Renekton than being poked down and then dove by Jayce.

Olinser

2014-06-03, 07:59 AM

*glares accusingly at renekton*

Renekton is nowhere even approaching 100% pick/ban.

NA he's been pick/banned in 11 out of 24 (45.8% pick/ban).

EU he's slightly more popular, pick/ban 14 out of 24 (58.3%).

Overall 25 out of 48, 52.1% pick/ban. Decently popular but nowhere near 'must nerf' territory. Multiple champions have higher pick/bans.

Legoshrimp

2014-06-03, 09:06 AM

Renekton is nowhere even approaching 100% pick/ban.

NA he's been pick/banned in 11 out of 24 (45.8% pick/ban).

EU he's slightly more popular, pick/ban 14 out of 24 (58.3%).

Overall 25 out of 48, 52.1% pick/ban. Decently popular but nowhere near 'must nerf' territory. Multiple champions have higher pick/bans.

And we all know pick/ban is power, if someone hasn't been picked a lot they are terrible.

Olinser

2014-06-03, 09:23 AM

And we all know pick/ban is power, if someone hasn't been picked a lot they are terrible.

My original statement was that whenever any champion approaches 100% pick/ban he is nerfed by riot. I made no statement about other reasons champions may or may not be nerfed.

Somebody brought up Renekton.

Renekton does not have anywhere approaching 100% pick/ban.

Therefore, Renekton has no relevance to my statement.

Dusk Eclipse

2014-06-03, 09:28 AM

Renekton despite not being a 100 % pick/ban champion has had a really important impact in the meta. Personally I think than the current meta of late-game top laners evolved from the need to deal with Renekton who normally falls pretty hard in the late game (as long as you don't feed him).

Cero Oscura

2014-06-03, 09:48 AM

Antonok

2014-06-03, 09:55 AM

Legoshrimp

2014-06-03, 10:08 AM

Overall 25 out of 48, 52.1% pick/ban. Decently popular but nowhere near 'must nerf' territory. Multiple champions have higher pick/bans.

My original statement was that whenever any champion approaches 100% pick/ban he is nerfed by riot. I made no statement about other reasons champions may or may not be nerfed.

Somebody brought up Renekton.

Renekton does not have anywhere approaching 100% pick/ban.

Therefore, Renekton has no relevance to my statement.

This doesn't really have much relevance to my point of you making a statement that champions with high pick/ban must be nerfed.

Also where are you getting pick info from? I have been looking but leaguepedia isn't updated. And I am not going to go through the list by hand.

Olinser

2014-06-03, 10:53 AM

I primarily play top lane, so I definitely agree that while Renekton is annoyingly easy to play, he is not near as frustrating as Jayce was during his height. But then, top has often felt like a rotating door of broken. If it's not Renekton, it's Mundo, or Riven, or Kennen, or Ryze, or.....

Did other lanes go through these kinds of problems? Was there ever a midlane champion who fit this pattern (easy to play and be effective with, yet you were still happy they were strong because at least it meant you wouldn't have to fight __________)?

It feels like top is just a terrible place to be 90% of the time. This is especially highlighted in recent LCS games where top laners are relegated to duo jungling instead of, you know, LANING.

LCS Duo jungling is a product of lane swapping, rather than top lane itself.

Put simply, in a lane swap scenario, the top laner finds himself in a 2v1 (and an extremely poor 2v1 since he'll usually be melee against 2 ranged or 1 ranged/1 melee CC).

In a 2v1 with a half competent support and ADC, the top laner cannot do anything but probably be totally zone from experience, maybe pick up 1 or 2 CS with a long range spell, and sit under the turret until the wave finally reaches it.

Timed with the large minion wave, the jungler would show up at level 3 while the top laner is most likely still level 1. 3 level 2-3's diving a level 1 almost always resulted in a kill and then a dead turret.

In the spring split a lot of teams, rather than having the top laner get dived and fall way behind, would just group both top and jungle with their ADC and support and both teams would fast push with a 4v0.

Now, the fast push strategy has fallen by the wayside, but a 1v2/3 is still not a good place to be.

So instead of sitting at the turret doing nothing before getting dived, the top laners dual jungled to get some level of experience before going to lane.

Olinser

2014-06-03, 11:33 AM

This doesn't really have much relevance to my point of you making a statement that champions with high pick/ban must be nerfed.

Also where are you getting pick info from? I have been looking but leaguepedia isn't updated. And I am not going to go through the list by hand.

I did go through the list by hand. I like numbers.

And its a fact that has been proven time and again - every single champion in the LCS that has been over 90% for any sustained period of time has taken a nerf (whether that nerf was sufficient is up for debate - they're screwed with Kassadin how many times now and he's still 80%+ ban rate?).

The ones off the top of my head - for a while in 2013 it was Ahri, she got her skills 'adjusted'. Last year at Worlds it was Zed and Corki both at 95%+, both nerfed in short order. At the start of the spring split it was Shyvana and Annie, midway through it was Lulu - all took a nerf. Now it's Twitch/Lucian.

Hullabaloo

2014-06-03, 03:36 PM

Cant find it again, but I thought I remember reading something by the devs to the extent that they see lucian and Twitch similar to the Rect bar. That is that their power level relative to the game as a whole is in a good place, and the issue is not that Lucian and Twitch are OP, but that other ranged ADCs need to be brought up to their level to make the choice of an ADC harder.

Cero Oscura

2014-06-03, 03:52 PM

LCS Duo jungling is a product of lane swapping, rather than top lane itself.

Put simply, in a lane swap scenario, the top laner finds himself in a 2v1 (and an extremely poor 2v1 since he'll usually be melee against 2 ranged or 1 ranged/1 melee CC).

In a 2v1 with a half competent support and ADC, the top laner cannot do anything but probably be totally zone from experience, maybe pick up 1 or 2 CS with a long range spell, and sit under the turret until the wave finally reaches it.

Timed with the large minion wave, the jungler would show up at level 3 while the top laner is most likely still level 1. 3 level 2-3's diving a level 1 almost always resulted in a kill and then a dead turret.

In the spring split a lot of teams, rather than having the top laner get dived and fall way behind, would just group both top and jungle with their ADC and support and both teams would fast push with a 4v0.

Now, the fast push strategy has fallen by the wayside, but a 1v2/3 is still not a good place to be.

So instead of sitting at the turret doing nothing before getting dived, the top laners dual jungled to get some level of experience before going to lane.

Interesting. Your statement further reinforces my assertion that it sucks to play top lane these days, and the LCS shows that statement as true for professional players as well. In fact, professional top players have it even worse.

I still pick it whenever I have the chance though. Something about drawing jungler attention and being a general nuisance is attractive to me, I guess.

Renegade Paladin

2014-06-03, 04:54 PM

Team Newline practice is in about two hours.

Dusk Eclipse

2014-06-03, 04:56 PM

Patch 4.9 notes: Let's see if this Kassadin nerfs work-edition (ver. I lost count)! (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-49-notes?ref=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

Qwertystop

2014-06-03, 04:57 PM

Team Newline practice is in about two hours.

Most likely unable to show, though I'm not entirely sure about the timing. Maybe at the end.

PhantomFox

2014-06-03, 05:04 PM

Qwertystop

2014-06-03, 05:10 PM

How do you apply for refunding of a Karthus skin?

efdf

2014-06-03, 05:44 PM

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4572524

McDouggal

2014-06-03, 06:22 PM

Is it just me, or is Gleeb just flat worse than Xpecial?

Joran

2014-06-03, 06:34 PM

Is it just me, or is Gleeb just flat worse than Xpecial?

In the EG/TSM match on day 1, I thought Gleeb was literally the only thing saving WildTurtle from himself. He built a Mikael's, a Face of the Mountain, and a Locket and was on point whenever LeBlanc tried to delete Turtle.

TSM as a whole looks completely lost strategically, so that's bound to reflect poorly on Gleeb. It's going to take sometime for TSM to figure out the shotcalling/strategy with Gleeb, Amazing, and Bjergsen having to divide that task amongst themselves.

Antonok

2014-06-03, 06:51 PM

Dusk Eclipse

2014-06-03, 06:53 PM

Did they gave him an incredible boost and the slowly nerfed him down to the ground? If so I'd say yes.

Joran

2014-06-03, 06:55 PM

Did they gave him an incredible boost and the slowly nerfed him down to the ground? If so I'd say yes.

Really does feel like they nerfed him so hard, he's not going to be seen anymore at the pro level.

Dusk Eclipse

2014-06-03, 06:58 PM

Grytorm

2014-06-03, 07:20 PM

YES they are reworking the Pentakill Mordekaiser Skin! I love the Pentakill skins.

Don Julio Anejo

2014-06-03, 09:44 PM

I personally think that halving the damage reduction from his ultimate would have been enough to keep Kha in line, while keeping him as a good assassin, now I think he will be too squishy to do his job properly.
Agreed. The problem isn't his damage, it's the fact that he can stealth immediately after instagibbing (or failing to) a squishy and simply walk out of the teamfight while facetanking the AD carry's damage if someone is quick enough to drop a pink.

Reduce damage reduction and/or movespeed boost on his evolved ult, and Kha'Zix is just fine, at least in soloqueue.

Lucian and Twitch are fine as far as ADCs go, the problem is the ADC role itself is becoming progressively weaker over the last year. While it's annoying when the ADC is the only role that actually matters, it's just as bad when a 10-2-4 Vayne can get deleted by an assassin or dived and still deleted by a Shyvanna before the team can even react while the tank/assassin simply walks out. Twitch offers enough hypercarry from relative safety with his ult (contrast Vayne that needs to get in your face, or Tristana that's really clunky and really weak against poke or lanes she can't all-in reliably), and Lucian is just insanely strong in lane without becoming useless if he's not fed (contrast with Draven). Hence, they're really strong in the current meta.

Ashen Lilies

2014-06-03, 09:52 PM

Togath

2014-06-03, 10:09 PM

Any advice for what gear and masteries to go for on Thresh?(and please don't just answer "standard" or "number/number/number".. because I haven't a clue what that would be[in the case of "standard" or what that means[in the case of x/y/z]:smallsmile:) I was thinking of trying him since he's free this week.

Joran

2014-06-03, 10:21 PM

So Renekton is pretty much the dumbest thing ever because no one will play him given that he gets out-scaled by basically every other bruiser top ever (Shyvana, Trundle, Dr. Mundo etc.) but you can't pick a non bruiser top because the second you do he'll appear and just take a massive dump all over you.

No wonder carry top laners are dead. /salt

A lot of pros will play Renekton for the early advantage, even against the other bruisers top. Dyrus completely destroyed Nien in a Renekton vs. Trundle matchup in the Sprint Split playoffs. The problem is with the prevalence of laneswaps, the pros can't guarantee that Renekton will be in a 1v1 lane. Why pick an early lane dominance top if he can't assert his dominance early?

As for carry toplaners, Jax is a contested pick and Irelia is seeing play again in the pros. Innox keeps trying to use carry toplaners like Lee Sin and Kha'Zix. Ryze is occasionally used as a counter-pick and I've seen a couple Vlad games as well. The laneswap meta does hurt carry toplaners a lot, just because of the reduced early gold totals and it takes longer for them to ramp up. They can also be dived hard if they try to stick around under-leveled.

Recaiden

2014-06-03, 10:24 PM

So, I just played a game, and I have one question about it...
http://i57.tinypic.com/2hziip2.jpg

How does that even happen?
He had IE, SotD, Ghostblade, Hydra, and LW, but....

thracian

2014-06-03, 10:30 PM

Q - Savagery
DAMAGE: The bonus damage from Savagery and Empowered Savagery can no longer critically strike. The Attack Damage portion still can.

Probably related.

abadguy

2014-06-03, 10:45 PM

oh yay my first voted and passed thread title!

Yeah I don't even touch top lane at all. It's a tough spot to be in. Not only is it an island, but it is usually a very heavy skill match up and one of the first lanes to get ganked. Played too many games where we lost or turned the game around by a fed top laner who rampages through the team fights and snowballs the team to victory.

That being said I think lots of shifts are happening perhaps due to the rise of the Support role. I'm truly gobsmacked still when I see 2-3 people fighting over it in ranked, vis a vis S3 when last pick=SP. Perhaps due to gold income, strong SP heroes like Braum, a relatively "brainless" laning phase.

Meanwhile my favourite AP Mids are seeing a strong viability in lane - Malzahar, Cassio and even Morgana mid. I think people forget how much damage Malz can output with just a Dorans and a Haunting Guise. I'm just leary of the fact that I'm seeing much more Syndras now which is super scary.

Ashen Lilies

2014-06-03, 10:51 PM

I'd just like to be able to play Fiora once in a while without having to be last pick to do it. She actually has a decent chance against Trundle in lane, and is stronger than Shyvana. And then the wild Renekton appears and you hate your life forever.

Joran

2014-06-03, 11:04 PM

mrcarter11

2014-06-03, 11:05 PM

Well the Champion Update posts are entertaining to read. Skarner gets a new passive with a stun attached, have to see how it actually flows in game. Nid remains toxic as hell, while now dealing % Current health with traps and being able to rip apart faces in melee.. Joy. And they've finally gotten around to admitting Soraka is the new Poppy.

Also while I understand the reasoning behind, because I feel far too many people use the system that don't even play the champions, Riot has decided to stop doing the refunds after a champ gets updated.

And while I doubt it was done on purpose, the number of people bitching that Riot did a sale on Mecha Kha Zix before giving out some really heavy nerfs is mildly amusing.

EDIT: Can anyone who actually plays a lot of Nid, give me a ballpark levelwise, when you get Grail, Dcap, etc. I see several builds used, so I can't really list past that, but mostly I see people do Grail into Dcap, so I listed those.

Nadevoc

2014-06-03, 11:10 PM

Guys, the people who were claiming blue side was stronger were right. Purple side was objectively weaker.

BUGFIX Fixed a bug where Flamespitter dealt less damage when on purple team

I'm kinda curious how that happened, since I wouldn't have expected the code to even care which side you were on.

Olinser

2014-06-03, 11:11 PM

So, I just played a game, and I have one question about it...
http://i57.tinypic.com/2hziip2.jpg

How does that even happen?
He had IE, SotD, Ghostblade, Hydra, and LW, but....

Presumably he had an Infinity Edge a Trinity Force, and his Q.

His base AD is 109 at level 18.

His Q adds 150 + 1.2 bonus AD.

Let's say he went with mostly damage and armor pen and went with Bloodthirster, Trinity, Last Whisper, Statikk Shiv, Black Cleaver, Boots

So he's got +215 AD, total AD of 324.

So his total uncrit damage is:

Base + Triforce + Q base + Q bonus

324 + 218 + 150 + 258

So with that his uncrit damage is 950. 950 * 2.5 = 2375.

So add in runes and masteries for extra + damage and yeah, easily possible, especially if he traded in boots for another +AD item. Theoretically you could easily bust 3000.

thracian

2014-06-03, 11:16 PM

: Can anyone who actually plays a lot of Nid, give me a ballpark levelwise, when you get Grail, Dcap, etc. I see several builds used, so I can't really list past that, but mostly I see people do Grail into Dcap, so I listed those.

Isn't the relationship between level and gold tough to accurately estimate? I mean, one of the reasons ADCs and mages seem to actually do damage early game in pro games is largely down to their GPM being significantly higher than an average player, but without a similarly large XP difference (so pre-item HP/resists are lower, while damage is higher).

EDIT: Why not use Empowered Q?

mrcarter11

2014-06-03, 11:26 PM

Isn't the relationship between level and gold tough to accurately estimate? I mean, one of the reasons ADCs and mages seem to actually do damage early game in pro games is largely down to their GPM being significantly higher than an average player, but without a similarly large XP difference (so pre-item HP/resists are lower, while damage is higher).

EDIT: Why not use Empowered Q?

It is. But I figured if I got several answers I could take an average and use the numbers given for different baselines. I mean I've seen math similar to what I want to do, done before and published, so I'm assuming some level of precedence for it exists within the league community.

ex cathedra

2014-06-03, 11:32 PM

PersonMan

2014-06-03, 11:39 PM

So add in runes and masteries for extra + damage and yeah, easily possible, especially if he traded in boots for another +AD item. Theoretically you could easily bust 3000.

Reminds me of the days of Infinity Edge + Sword of the Divine Rengar. Stealth, press 1, jump on enemy carry, burst for over three thousand in an orgy of spam-Q and right clicking...

Ashen Lilies

2014-06-03, 11:50 PM

renekton gets crushed by ryze and is a skill matchup against jax, maybe you're just playing "carry" top laners that suck :^)

I am indeed, because I'm pretty good at them, I find them interesting to play, and I don't have the patience to constantly jump to flavor of the month champions when I can just master the ones I find fun. (I also have 2/3rds of my ranked games played on Shyvana, so you can't accuse me of intentionally going after underused champions so I can bitch about how weak they are).

Dragonus45

2014-06-04, 12:52 AM

I think I remember Riot saying that they don't like lane swapping as it effectively removes the laning phase entirely. We've seen some of their attempts to make it less desirable, but it hasn't worked out so well. What do you think might work?

Am I the only person who actually likes the dynamic of a game where the teams just skip the laning phase.

Togath

2014-06-04, 12:56 AM

Am I the only person who actually likes the dynamic of a game where the teams just skip the laning phase.

I like skipping it as well, adds more depth, in my opinion.
edit: Also are Shaco and Shyvana still decent junglers? Both have looked like fun champions to try, but I don't really have an image of what champions tend to jungle these days(Yi was generally considered one of the strongest when I left, but I haven't heard much about him or seen him in game since I came back, as an example).

Ashen Lilies

2014-06-04, 01:30 AM

Shaco is pretty solid for solo queue. His ganking is really strong, though it requires a little forethought with trap placement, as is his counterjungling, and after getting double buffs you should pretty much be running around the map killing everything. Lategame transitioning as Shaco can be a little awkward, since he'll start needing to play a lot less aggressively than he did early game. He's a strong duelist, and a splitpush king since he can take towers quickly with his clone, duel with his clone, ward up approaches with boxes and escape with his Q. He has a reputation for being a terrible teamfighter which is only partially deserved. He's a really strong peeler with his slow and fear box, and he does pretty well dancing around the outside of a fight and hitting their flanks, but it's true he prefers to be splitpushing instead of fighting unless he's massively ahead. My favored core build is (SotEL/Flare)/Hydra/Shiv, since you can clear waves pretty much instantly for splitpushing, and if you can get the drop on their back line (Q over a wall during a jungle fight) and clone yourself in the midst of their squishies, you can wreak absolute devastation since both you and your clone will be proccing Hydra cleave and Shiv across their carries.

Shyvana is a pretty good jungler, though she's currently favored for top lane (and is my main top laner). She clears really quickly, though she has sustain issues early, and can counterjungle like a boss with her clear speed and solid dueling. Her ganking is pretty weak since she lacks cc, but her counterganking is really strong because of her tons of damage. Generally though you want to avoid lanes unless a really solid gank/countergank opportunity comes up and instead focus on power farming the jungle, getting your items faster than everyone else and then beasting out into the mid game. You usually want to go either SotAG or Flare into full tank.

Joran

2014-06-04, 01:50 AM

renekton gets crushed by ryze and is a skill matchup against jax, maybe you're just playing "carry" top laners that suck :^)

I also saw Team 8 CaliforniaTrollz's Vladimir completely crush ackerman's Renekton twice (ackerman was well-known for his excellent Renekton in China). ackerman then broke out a top lane Jarvan and stomped Vladimir.

I like skipping it as well, adds more depth, in my opinion.

Depends. The previous 4 man push two towers down meta was really boring. The first 8 minutes or so was just dead time. This 2v1 slow push/deny meta is definitely more entertaining since it allows the support and jungler and top laner to gank lanes.

However, standard lanes allows individual skill to shine, which is also a good thing. It's hard to compare lanes if they never face head to head.

Ideally, it should be a mix of 50/50.

abadguy

2014-06-04, 04:12 AM

Am I the only person who actually likes the dynamic of a game where the teams just skip the laning phase.

I think the teams that play it smart and adjust early game according to their opponents do better. For e.g CLG vs TSM played to "standard" lanes, I suspect due to the fact that CLG knew they were better laners than TSM so they 'forced' a standard lane set up.

Togath

2014-06-04, 04:32 AM

I think the teams that play it smart and adjust early game according to their opponents do better. For e.g CLG vs TSM played to "standard" lanes, I suspect due to the fact that CLG knew they were better laners than TSM so they 'forced' a standard lane set up.

Perhaps I misundesrstood what laning phase meant?
I'd thought it meant the part where you try to last hit minions, instead of trying to kill the opponent/turrets?
And that skipping it meant trying to kill your opponent if you got a chance from the start, or having the jungler do ganks starting around level 2, instead of near end game.

edit: also, what do Tsm and Clg mean?

Eldariel

2014-06-04, 05:04 AM

Perhaps I misundesrstood what laning phase meant?
I'd thought it meant the part where you try to last hit minions, instead of trying to kill the opponent/turrets?
And that skipping it meant trying to kill your opponent if you got a chance from the start, or having the jungler do ganks starting around level 2, instead of near end game.

No, you always try to kill your opponent. Laning phase simply means the time in the game where people consider the gains of staying on all 3 lanes superior to grouping up for Dragons/Tower pushes/Barons, that is early game where the first priority is getting a lot of experience and the first key items on everybody. You'll still try to kill people but less often using the full team and more often with the individual 1v1/2v2 outplay with a jungler gank.

Traditionally people laned on all 3 lanes for the first 6-10 levels, sometimes longer, in the traditionalish 1-1-2 + jungler lane setup but nowadays due to a variety of circumstances, it's common to only have people on two lanes and grouping happens fairly early. That's not to say that people have always laned in the traditional way in the past either; again there're competitive games with 4-man groups from level 1 for quick push that have lead to success.

edit: also, what do Tsm and Clg mean?

They're the names of two of the longest-running top American teams, Team Solo Mid and Counter Logic Gaming. CLG was the first, TSM came shortly thereafter; both date back to 2010. They've been on-and-off on the top of the American scene and back in the day highly regarded internationally too. Nowadays their international success has waned but they're still competitive on North American level though TSM is struggling with the new line-up. It might just be NA will again be on the cusp of reaching a level where we can expect some international success of them too.

abadguy

2014-06-04, 06:07 AM

efdf

2014-06-04, 07:22 AM

Presumably he had an Infinity Edge a Trinity Force, and his Q.

His base AD is 109 at level 18.

His Q adds 150 + 1.2 bonus AD.

Let's say he went with mostly damage and armor pen and went with Bloodthirster, Trinity, Last Whisper, Statikk Shiv, Black Cleaver, Boots

So he's got +215 AD, total AD of 324.

So his total uncrit damage is:

Base + Triforce + Q base + Q bonus

324 + 218 + 150 + 258

So with that his uncrit damage is 950. 950 * 2.5 = 2375.

So add in runes and masteries for extra + damage and yeah, easily possible, especially if he traded in boots for another +AD item. Theoretically you could easily bust 3000.
did triforce bonus damage crit on rengar's q?

you left the assumption of infinity edges 2.5 crit in while saying he had the (extremely weird) build bt tri lw shiv bc. also, recaiden provided rengar's actual build.

Olinser

2014-06-04, 09:37 AM

did triforce bonus damage crit on rengar's q?

you left the assumption of infinity edges 2.5 crit in while saying he had the (extremely weird) build bt tri lw shiv bc. also, recaiden provided rengar's actual build.

Obviously I didn't see white text - probably because it's dumb to put it in posts in the first place.

I did make an error with the IE though.

The actual build is really kind of irrelevant - he asked how it was possible, I demonstrated how it is possible, obviously you can swap AD equipment in and out and still come out with similar or higher results.

With full damage items, full damage runes/masteries, and not even trying that hard you can bust 3000 damage on a Rengar Q crit (one of the reasons the upcoming patch is removing the crit from his Q bonus). Theoretically you can break 4k if you can pull off things like a fully stacked Occult, a support with a Zeke's, Janna buff, etc.

efdf

2014-06-04, 02:10 PM

Olinser

2014-06-04, 02:23 PM

you demonstrated that a triforce shiv rengar has a base crit of 2.4k with a non-empowered Q

if i remember correctly pretty much every IEdge Rengar will break 3k (with empowered) as a by the numbers maximum unless he has a SotD and breaking 4k doesn't actually need teammate help or even a 20 stack SotO just a sacrifice of armor pen for higher AD values

all pre-patch of course

also,

Yes... which is exactly what I said I was doing. He asked how he could crit that high. I pulled a build out of thin air and showed him (and I didn't even include runes/masteries, which would push it higher).

Last time I checked people were claiming that yes, Q was allowing it to crit (could be wrong of course and I don't play Rengar personally so I rely on secondhand information).

Manticoran

2014-06-04, 02:33 PM

The damage from sheen cannot crit. :)

Cogwheel

2014-06-04, 02:44 PM

The damage from sheen cannot crit. :)

Only if you really believe with all your heart.

Godskook

2014-06-04, 02:51 PM

I pulled a build out of thin air and showed him

IE crit multiplier without IE, having triforce sheen proc crit.

What you did wasn't "showed him" it was "bad information, 100%". Using bad information to get the right answer doesn't in any way justify using the bad information; a broken clock may still be right twice a day but I'm not going to use it to check the time.

Renegade Paladin

2014-06-04, 04:56 PM

Team Newline practice is in two hours. Onward to Silver!

Don Julio Anejo

2014-06-04, 05:04 PM

This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoGa2Kd0HcU) should be a thing, nao!

Renegade Paladin

2014-06-04, 05:10 PM

This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoGa2Kd0HcU) should be a thing, nao!
Oh, so much yes. :smallbiggrin:

Reinboom

2014-06-04, 05:24 PM

Qwertystop

2014-06-04, 05:28 PM

thracian

2014-06-04, 07:00 PM

Eldariel

2014-06-04, 07:01 PM

I think it's possible to push it for about a 5 min finish but it'll have to wait for tomorrow as I need to sleep right now and I can't assemble 5 at this hour anyways.

Olinser

2014-06-04, 07:34 PM

IE crit multiplier without IE, having triforce sheen proc crit.

What you did wasn't "showed him" it was "bad information, 100%". Using bad information to get the right answer doesn't in any way justify using the bad information; a broken clock may still be right twice a day but I'm not going to use it to check the time.

Hardly. The calculations are still accurate to get you in the area he was questioning. I already said I made a mistae with the IE - but that actually RAISES the amount, since swap it in for any other item and the damage will actually go up because it has higher AD anyway.

And as I also already said, I was going off my friend the Rengar player saying that Q was allowing Triforce to crit. He's also saying Riot is trying to cover by just removing the crit from Q entirely. Could be wrong, obviously, and I don't care enough to check because I don't play Rengar.

The point demonstrated is still, "Yes, he can crit that hard, and that isn't even that ridiculous given his theoretical max."

Olinser

2014-06-04, 07:37 PM

Anyway, has anybody else had weird things happen trying to download this patch?

I was patching a few minutes ago and it went to finished, then suddenly went to step 2/2 and said it had another 450 MB left.

Then it reset the launcher and now has suddenly reset back to 800 MB left.

mrcarter11

2014-06-04, 08:07 PM

Previews for the World Cup skins are up on S@20.

Draven is also getting a new one, Primetime Draven.
Cow, Tree, Lucian, TF, and Gregas meanwhile are getting World Cup skins.
Not sure what happened between like last year and this year, but I feel like they've really stepped up on putting new skins out and they mostly look good. I've got some complaints about price and which champs are getting them, but overall, it feels like a big improvement to me.

Dragonus45

2014-06-04, 09:13 PM

Togath

2014-06-04, 09:36 PM

If you still need people I would be down for that.

As would I:smallsmile:

Antonok

2014-06-04, 10:19 PM

New Graggy skin: Graggy gone wild (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-umeMHUNvQBc/U4_b5AQ4BAI/AAAAAAAAQ8U/nnHBzh8QUq4/s1600/graggg.jpg)

Put Miley Cyrus to shame.

Also Nidalee is getting some changes (http://community.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/rr5Noh3H-nidalee-gameplay-update-feedbackbugs-thread) on the PBE.

Dusk Eclipse

2014-06-04, 10:23 PM

It is actually called Suerfan Gragas, it along Red Card TF, Goalkeeper Maokai, Sweeper Alistair and Striker Lucian are the World Cup skins, there is also a Primetime Draven Skin which looks hilarious and awesome at the same time.

Antonok

2014-06-04, 10:24 PM

thracian

2014-06-04, 11:14 PM

6:49 co-op vs ai with J4, Trist, Jinx, Cait, Sona. Just grabbed 4 dudes and tried it. We wasted a minion wave or two at the end going for kills instead of towers, so 5:30-6:00 is not unreasonable.

TechnOkami

2014-06-05, 12:46 AM

So this (http://i.imgur.com/m1uMngq.jpg) happened.

abadguy

2014-06-05, 01:02 AM

Sigh, June is a terrible month for LoL in my region. It's the school holidays and the servers are awash with raging kids and sub-100 normal wins provisional players. O the humanity.

The only good thing to come out of this is there are usually lots of in-game promos, like triple IP/XP day, Daily Task rewards (from which you can win Ward and Champ skins or IP boosts) and other events to win skins and stuff.

Don Julio Anejo

2014-06-05, 02:47 AM

Sigh, June is a terrible month for LoL in my region. It's the school holidays and the servers are awash with raging kids and sub-100 normal wins provisional players. O the humanity.

The only good thing to come out of this is there are usually lots of in-game promos, like triple IP/XP day, Daily Task rewards (from which you can win Ward and Champ skins or IP boosts) and other events to win skins and stuff.
This is why I pretty much only play ranked at night. Like 11 PM or later.

Togath

2014-06-05, 03:58 AM

Sigh, June is a terrible month for LoL in my region. It's the school holidays and the servers are awash with raging kids and sub-100 normal wins provisional players. O the humanity.

Reminds me of an AI match I had earlier.. Went in to quickly grab my daily win. Decided to go ADC.
The group was; Annie, Heimerdinger, Karthus, Shyvana, and Jinx(me).
Needless to say I'd assumed it was going to be a pretty standard group.
Then Shyvana failed to connect to the game(at all).. And then I found out Annie was going toplane, leaving me to (try to) solo bottom on one of the most glassy adcs*:smalltongue:.

We did end up winning, eventually... But it did take a while(and thankfully the Karthus and Heimer were good/decent).

abadguy

2014-06-05, 04:37 AM

This is why I pretty much only play ranked at night. Like 11 PM or later.

Nah uh. No school means stay up all night playing LoL. The best times to play are actually 12-2pm or 6-8pm. Meal times!

Ashen Lilies

2014-06-05, 05:07 AM

Anyone else encounter a weird interaction J4's flag where if the enemy J4 places his flag on his allied minions you can't right click them?

Don Julio Anejo

2014-06-05, 05:18 AM

Nah uh. No school means stay up all night playing LoL. The best times to play are actually 12-2pm or 6-8pm. Meal times!
"Sorry guys, gtg dinner my mom is yelling."

Winthur

2014-06-05, 06:16 AM

"Sorry guys, gtg dinner my mom is beating me up with table."
fixed
winthur had a hard life ;-;

Take a good look at the picture of him from behind.
asstonok

Hullabaloo

2014-06-05, 08:52 AM

ADC item change plans

http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/live-gameplay/LNKJydKU-410-411-systems-team-forecast

Note: As this is a forecast, this won't have many specifics in it. I'll have my usual style of post with the specifics of item changes on Friday when we try to coordinate a PBE push.

Attack Damage - B.F. Sword normalization

Items Affected:

We're going to be normalizing everything that builds out of B.F. Sword to have 80 Attack Damage with minimal price increases to compensate - as well as shifting B.F. Sword to have 50 Attack Damage at the 1600 Gold price point, instead of 45 Attack Damage at the 1550 Gold price point.

On the whole, we like what this does to the overall decision making when purchasing a B.F. Sword - you know it will eventually morph into an 80 Attack Damage item - the only question being what sorts of side utility you want out of the whole deal.

There's a slight caveat here in that this puts an unfortunate damper on Bloodthirster - whose presence is too dominant and skews the power between Ratio driven carries and more traditional basic attack oriented carries.

Essentially, BT goes down in power - everything else goes up in power - including the midgame where you build up to BT.

Attack Speed Itemization - Dagger Retuning

Items Affected:

Attack Speed isn't a particularly attractive statistic to overcommit to at the moment given the natural Attack Speed growth of carries. We're making some slight buffs to Dagger to help mitigate some of the mid-game power issues that carries are facing at the moment where Attack Speed only feels good at the final completed item rather than during the build-up, where it matters.

Basically, you usually do get enough Attack Speed by the end of the game with your build. It's just that the entire way to the end item, you don't have nearly enough. You can expect these items to have slightly more attack speed with a minimal price increase.

For example: Berzerker's Greaves giving 5% more Attack Speed and costing 50 more Gold.

Lifesteal

Going to start with a quick item preview as a framing piece:

Doran's Blade

80 Health --> 70 Health
8 Attack Damage --> 7 Attack Damage
3/5 Life on Hit --> 3% Life Steal

For a long time, we were trying to phase out early life steal as a statistic and replacing it with other mechanisms such as life on hit. However, with the rise of non-sustain supports - this avenue no longer makes sense. With non-sustain based supports being the norm rather an exception - Life Steal needs to be easily accessible from a variety of sources in order for the ADC to not be locked into a single early build path - the one that includes Life Steal.

With this in mind, it makes more sense for Life Steal to be more expensive overall but easier to 'stack' from a wider variety of sources rather than have Life Steal be a single specific path.

Hence, we're going to lower the life steal amounts of all items - but introduce it back into Doran's Blade in order for carries to have a wider range of possible % Life Steal values - this allows carries to basically build the 'right' amount of life steal for their carry type, their support and the power of their lane opponents - rather than having one single overpowered choice that tries to cover every situation in which you might need sustain.

On the whole, you can expect there to be less life steal on each of the life steal items but more available % life steal options. What we expect to see is a slightly wider range of potential first order buys - especially since this version of Doran's Blade has more mid game potential.

Bloodthirster

70 Attack Damage --> 80 Attack Damage
12% Life Steal --> 15% Life Steal
Unique Stacking Passive --> Removed
New Passive --> Your life steal effects can overheal you, granting you a shield equal to the excess up to X (based on character level). This shield decays if you haven't dealt or taken damage in 15 seconds

Bloodthirster becomes a problem when its too commonplace as it creates a situation where it basically comes down to who acquires it first. This is both due to the power and build path of the item as well as the stacking mechanic on it. Additionally, it favors Attack Damage ratio-driven carries who traditionally have weaker end-games to begin with. We're retuning Bloodthirster to be a more consistent choice and to give other damage options a more favorable comparison point.

We know that this will leave certain ranged characters that rely on Bloodthirster Stacking in a bit of a bind at the moment - Certain heavy AD Varus and Miss Fortune builds will be in a bit of a pinch without a stackable Attack Damage source. However, given how Bloodthirster both supports these characters and suppresses them by being more favorable to other characters - it's not really contributing to a healthier ecosystem.

Melee will generally come out favorably as they have a very offensive life steal item (Hydra) and a more defensive one (Bloodthirster).

Mikael's Crucible

Lastly, I want to talk about Crucible - this item is too commonplace and negates a lot of decision making in the end game. Crucible does odd things where it devalues long cooldown initiation patterns in exchange for repeated pick patterns.

This heavily suppresses utility centric carries like Ashe or Varus who rely on these patterns to be strategically interesting.

We do like that Crucible is an option in the game but it is currently too broad of a pick and appearing too frequently on a much wider array of supports than intended. Mikael's is just as good as a buy on offensive tanky supports as defensive ones - which skews the balance of power even farther away from initiation based carries as their unique niche both gets countered and replaced by the same character.

We're going to both raise the cost of this item and adjust the statline to favor more Mana intensive supports to shifts Mikael into favoring more mage-centric supports rather than Tank supports. We'll be adding another support item in Mikael's price point in order to grant a wider breadth of items - the details of which will be on the PBE post on Friday.

Ashen Lilies

2014-06-05, 10:39 AM

>.>

Hydra -> BT Fiora build incoming...

Anarion

2014-06-05, 11:06 AM

ADC item change plans

http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/live-gameplay/LNKJydKU-410-411-systems-team-forecast

I think I like that. I liked being able to build a few doran's blades for lane sometimes, and that's really not very good right now.

Also seems like they want to make ADCs a bit more capable of delivering their damage, where right now the windows for doing that are so small that it's really tough, so I approve.

Olinser

2014-06-05, 11:13 AM

ADC item change plans

http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/live-gameplay/LNKJydKU-410-411-systems-team-forecast

They'd better put a hard cap on how big that BT shield can become, that's all I can say.

Otherwise we're going to run into BS like the AD having a massive shield on things like Dragon, Baron, etc.

With resetting jungle camps it would also be totally possible to charge up the BT shield massively on a jungle camp before even going in for a Dragon/Baron attempt.

Ashen Lilies

2014-06-05, 11:39 AM

New Passive --> Your life steal effects can overheal you, granting you a shield equal to the excess up to X (based on character level). This shield decays if you haven't dealt or taken damage in 15 seconds.

Plain text. Regular English. Right there. You're welcome.

:smallsmile:

Olinser

2014-06-05, 11:52 AM

Plain text. Regular English. Right there. You're welcome.

:smallsmile:

That wasn't there earlier.

I still feel like it makes it too strong in lane while making it near pointless in a teamfight that you don't enter with it already charged.

15 seconds is an awfully long time for the shield to last, you basically keep charging it up on the waves.

Olinser

2014-06-05, 12:53 PM

SK versus Millenium

Wow, that was an absolute stomp. I don't know what was going on but it was even for a while and then Millenium just suddenly self-destructed. They picked poor fights and engages, had no map pressure, and just handed the game to SK.

Siosilvar

2014-06-05, 01:05 PM

Anyone else encounter a weird interaction J4's flag where if the enemy J4 places his flag on his allied minions you can't right click them?

I have not, but I've had enemy minions destroy the flag before (3 hits, just like a ward). I believe it sometimes fails to become untargetable, which would cause that issue too.

Ashen Lilies

2014-06-05, 01:54 PM

This is ****ing beautiful. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e_N4WpqH5o)

Dusk Eclipse

2014-06-05, 02:10 PM

I have one single complaint about that.. they replaced my awesome wight with a freaking FROG!?!?!?! :smallmad: Not cool Rito... not cool.

Togath

2014-06-05, 02:14 PM

I have one single complaint about that.. they replaced my awesome wight with a freaking FROG!?!?!?! :smallmad: Not cool Rito... not cool.

Honestly, I found that change weird as well, especially since it was a recent-ish addition.

Dusk Eclipse

2014-06-05, 02:17 PM

I think it is probably to differentiate it from the wraiths, the spawning animations looks cool though.

Lix Lorn

2014-06-05, 02:18 PM

Well they always said the wight was a placeholder...

Dusk Eclipse

2014-06-05, 02:20 PM

Really? Huh I don't remember that.

Olinser

2014-06-05, 02:22 PM

SHC vs Fnatic

DAMN.

That is the longest game I can remember. 63 minutes and SHC had over 100k gold at the end.

SHC just couldn't close the game out and Fnatic just couldn't make anything from the picks they got.

Forum Explorer

2014-06-05, 02:37 PM

I have one single complaint about that.. they replaced my awesome wight with a freaking FROG!?!?!?! :smallmad: Not cool Rito... not cool.

Well we already have wraiths. So I like the frog. I just wish the Elder lizard was more of a lizard, instead of a lizard shaped rock.

Hey I wonder if they'll swap out the golems for something else?

Winthur

2014-06-05, 02:45 PM

Hey I wonder if they'll swap out the golems for something else?

They won't, that monster is already set in stone

Hullabaloo

2014-06-05, 02:46 PM

Hopefully this wont hurt the people that play league on low power computers.

Looks like a massive upgrade from the current map though.

Hi Dedow,

We are working really hard on optimizing the map. Our goal is not to up the min-spec and to make it run equivalently (or better) on all machines that run League of Legends currently.

It's already running really well on our test machines.

Lx (+Kevin, our lead engineer on the project)

Hi Lx, i was wondering is the new spawn animation gonna affect the spawn timer? Or you simply can't attack dragon which is gonna fully spawn as usual? Also i love the cartoonist effect of the map with the minimalistic look. Blue golem is simply fantastic :D

That's a great question. If Blue Buff currently spawns at 1:55 on SR, and if our spawn animation is 2 seconds long, then we will spawn Blue Sentinel at 1:53 min, so that you can attack it at 1:55. It's parity with what is on live.

We hope that spawn animations will help better time your initiation while maintaining parity with the gameplay on our current SR. This includes visibility (so, you can't see dragon if you don't have a ward in the dragon pit, even if he's running around on the rim of the pit).

There's a white flash that will tell the players when you can attack a creature, too. As with all things regarding the updated Summoner's Rift we'd love to hear your feedback!

Thanks for the compliments, I'll pass them on to the whole team!
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/27eiz5/update_to_summoners_rift_pre_beta_footage/
Sound update too

I don't think any of the audio guys are currently perusing the thread, but there are definitely big music and sound updates on the map. Not all of the music work is done; for example, we're still missing a few pieces of tech to get all the features in, but we're really excited to see what you guys think once everything goes live.
...
I don't think anyone will kill me if I say that yes, it'll hit PBE this year :P

Further details
http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/features/dev-blog-updating-summoners-rift

Anarion

2014-06-05, 03:04 PM

I really like the dragon pacing around its pit. I wonder if that's a temporary thing for its spawn or if it will hang out up there after being defeated and only come down when its spawn timer has come up?

They won't, that monster is already set in stone

You're the best.

TechnOkami

2014-06-05, 03:19 PM

This is ****ing beautiful. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e_N4WpqH5o)

*drools on screen*

It's so pretty...

Winthur

2014-06-05, 03:40 PM

You're the best.

Anarion's right on the money here.

Forum Explorer

2014-06-05, 04:19 PM

They won't, that monster is already set in stone

I really should have seen that one coming. :smallbiggrin:

Dusk Eclipse

2014-06-05, 05:17 PM

Is Rengar any good in the jungle?

McDouggal

2014-06-05, 05:30 PM

The rage. It is hilarious and real.

http://i.imgur.com/6i7XUXv.png

http://i.imgur.com/rR0YZdU.png

In Lucian's defense, I had somewhere around an 80% connection rate with hooks that game. Also, first PVP Thresh match. So fun:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smal lbiggrin:

Winthur

2014-06-05, 05:34 PM

Is Rengar any good in the jungle?

Sure. You can even play him tanky unless Riot did yet another not-rework in the patch notes, but obviously he's the best as an assassin.
Not top tier but solo queueable.

Recaiden

2014-06-05, 05:49 PM

Is Rengar any good in the jungle?

Yes.

This is ****ing beautiful. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e_N4WpqH5o)

But you know what it's not? Winter Summoner's Rift.

Dusk Eclipse

2014-06-05, 06:24 PM

Sure. You can even play him tanky unless Riot did yet another not-rework in the patch notes, but obviously he's the best as an assassin.
Not top tier but solo queueable.

Then I need to start practising him in the jungle, I'm ashamed to ask, but what should I build on him? I normally play him on the top-lane as a bruiser; rush Hydra, work on Randuin's/Sunfire and then depending on how the games go I go either more tanky or if I get fed (which doesn't happen often ._.) work on a BT/LW.

Dragonus45

2014-06-05, 07:25 PM

So do any of the ranked teams I see around here happen to have any space. I'm looking to find some regular people to practice with.

Renegade Paladin

2014-06-05, 09:24 PM

So do any of the ranked teams I see around here happen to have any space. I'm looking to find some regular people to practice with.

Newline has a spot, but that's Recaiden's call. About where are you ranked?

Dragonus45

2014-06-05, 09:33 PM

I was gold in season 3 for a bit before I dropped down from inactivity. Right now I'm in silver but I'm only playing a few ranked games a week right now so it's not really going anywhere.

Farix

2014-06-05, 10:06 PM

Hopefully this wont hurt the people that play league on low power computers.

Looks like a massive upgrade from the current map though.

From a forum post (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4578254&page=8#post47557683) by RiotForScience (Senior Environmental Artist):

"In many cases the update will run better. Maintaining performance is our highest priority. The approach we have taken to updating the map actually uses 1/8th the polygons of the map on live."

Poor papa wraith, first he gets that nasty divorce with his wife, she keeps the kids and the campfire and hes gotta crash on Big Golem's couch on the other side of the jungle. Now he gets kicked out again since Big Golem got a frog for a new roommate.

Looks awesome and I cant wait to check it out, I'm guessing though that we wont see it on live until the post-Worlds patch at the earliest.

McDouggal

2014-06-05, 11:26 PM

So, this guy (http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/47784075#matches) claims he's Wildturtle.

I find this hard to believe.

EDIT:

So, the 4.10 item changes (http://community.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/621miiU8-planned-410-item-changes-attack-damage-attack-speed-wardens-mail-support-itemization) are listed here (although not on PBE yet), and all I have to say is, this looks broken.

Running down the list:

BF sword increases to 50 AD for 50 more gold? Fine. Nothing overly broken there.
Infinity Edge: HUGE boost in efficiency. The new rush item for most AD's.
Mercurial Scimitar: 20 more AD, and movespeed boost now also given to ranged characters. Still a defensive item though.
Ghostblade is the new AS+Crit item for ADC's. Not to mention it gives % armor pen.
Dagger is slightly more expensive for 3% more AS. Overall, eh.
Zeal is slightly cheaper, more AS. Again, eh.
Greaves are slightly more expensive, give more AS. Again eh.
Doran's Blade gets back the Season 2 passive! 3% lifesteal! NOW BUFF THE <redacted> LIFESTEAL RUNES! Gives less AD and health, same cost.
Cutlass and Scepter both have their lifesteal cut to 8%.
BotRK has LS cut to 10%, nuke cut to 10% max health and 25% movespeed steal, but the proc increases to 8% of current health.
Bloodthirster is 250 gold more expensive. AD base increases to 80, LS base increases to 15%, but there's no more stacking passive. Instead, you can overheal on lifesteal. Basically, looks massively nerfed.
NEW ITEM: Essence Reaver. Gives AD, LS, and CDR, and has a passive that gives you mana when autoattacks hit based on a percentage of your mana pool.
Crucible: Gives CDR and more flat mana regen.
NEW ITEM: Ardent Censer. If you heal or shield an ally (not yourself), they gain a 25% - yes, TWENTY-FIVE - percent boost to attack speed. Gives AP, mana regen, CDR, and movespeed. COMPLETELY BROKEN ON A LOT OF SUPPORTS.
Unholy Grail: Nerfed. Yes, you get more mana back on a kill or assist, but your base regen and MR is lowered, and THAT'S WHAT I BOUGHT IT FOR.
Nomnomnomicon: More flat mana regen. More AP. Same cost.
Warden's mail: down to 10% attack speed slow.
Randuin's: MS slow passive REMOVED. AS slow passive down to 10%.

Basically, this looks like a massive buff to ADC's as a class, although *supposedly* this is supposed to nerf some of the casters and increase the strength of those that rely more heavily on AA's. It'll also (finally) make it so that the full build for all AD's isn't almost exactly the same for each champ.

thracian

2014-06-06, 02:27 AM

The ASpd on heal item looks like it would be fun on Alistar. Who doesn't like whole-team ASpd buffs on a tiny CD when pushing?

EDIT:
It'll also (finally) make it so that the full build for all AD's isn't almost exactly the same for each champ.

Wait, what? Full build isn't going to change, one mid-tier laning item isn't going to be enough to change builds. Build orders might change, but that's about it. All they've done is change the power levels of the best ADC items relative to each other. They're still the best ADC items.

PersonMan

2014-06-06, 02:34 AM

Then I need to start practising him in the jungle, I'm ashamed to ask, but what should I build on him? I normally play him on the top-lane as a bruiser; rush Hydra, work on Randuin's/Sunfire and then depending on how the games go I go either more tanky or if I get fed (which doesn't happen often ._.) work on a BT/LW.

I went for a Feral Flare/BotRK/IE and that seemed to work out.

I can see Spirit of the Lizard Elder/BotRK/Brutalizer/LW working as well. Throw in a Warmog's or Frozen Mallet for some tankiness, deal basically true damage to squishies.

McDouggal

2014-06-06, 03:08 AM

EDIT:

Wait, what? Full build isn't going to change, one mid-tier laning item isn't going to be enough to change builds. Build orders might change, but that's about it. All they've done is change the power levels of the best ADC items relative to each other. They're still the best ADC items.

... The only reason I wasn't buying ghostblade on AD's was becasue of the more limited acive for ranged champions. It give crit chance, AD, and armor penetration, while the active gives MS and AS. What's not to like about this item?

Don Julio Anejo

2014-06-06, 03:36 AM

Still trying to wrap my head around the new changes.

Like:
- New ghostblade
- New lifesteal/mana regen item. Great on Ezreal, Lucian and probably someone like Irelia as well.
- IE + 1-2 dorans is now fairly viable with lifesteal quints. Great news for Ashe.
- Cheaper Zeal with more AS. Zeal very good item, very fast sword.
- Mercurial scimitar AD boost. Makes it more as a _second_ defensive item against dive/CC heavy comps.
- Ardent Censer. Great on Janna, Sona, Lulu.

Dislike:

- BF AD boost to 50. Makes bot lane even more snowbally. Before, if you had a vamp sceptre and a few pots, you had a decent chance to not die to someone with a BFS and nothing else if you could get some poke in. Now BFS does more damage and sceptre heals less. Derp.

- BorK. Makes Vayne and Jax stronger than they have to be, while making other ADCs (Twitch, Tristana) have weaker burst. Still not viable on Caitlyn since she usually won't use the active and prefers crit or flat AD instead of AS/hp shred.

- BT change. Weaker as a late-game item, but if someone gets it during the laning phase, it's gg for the other ADC, since you can keep the shield up from autoattacking minions and trade without taking much damage in return. Kinda contrary to what they wanted to do and stop snowballing. It'd have been better to keep its price the same @3200, but not include the shield at all - would have still been a decent AD/lifesteal item. Now IE + a few dorans is a much better choice unless you can get BT very early.

- Boots price increase. 5% AS is not worth 100 extra gold at the time you usually get boots (more often than not you get them for MS than AS). Indirect buff to Ezreal/Lucian/Corki since they get less AS from Triforce than ADCs that buy shiv/PD.

- Ardent Censer. OP on Alistar.

Hullabaloo

2014-06-06, 08:18 AM

NEW ITEM: Ardent Censer. If you heal or shield an ally (not yourself), they gain a 25% - yes, TWENTY-FIVE - percent boost to attack speed. Gives AP, mana regen, CDR, and movespeed. COMPLETELY BROKEN ON A LOT OF SUPPORTS.

Rocking close to a 70% ranked win with Sona, this makes me sploosh (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC1NqZvY_lA). The AoE shields on Thresh and Lux, and the AoE heal on Ali makes me think this is like feral flair. Make it OP early to get the data on it, then nerf hard.

Edit
Someone's comparison of the polygons on the new SR
http://i.imgur.com/cOhdSTR.jpg

Also

Beginning with patch 4.10, we’re introducing a new restriction for ranked duo queues so players will only be able to duo queue with teammates ranked between one full tier above or below them. (http://community.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/air-client-new-features-feedback/n3dPnAaM-duo-queue-restrictions)

Olinser

2014-06-06, 09:30 AM

Anarion

2014-06-06, 09:55 AM

Alistar?

More like Karma. R - shield = GG MS + AS buff.

Also..... I wonder if it procs off Locket. That would make the combo pretty stupid.

Or... whether it procs off the heal for executing something with Targons.

Locket was implied to be a yes by the red comments further down. Targon's should be a yes under the same logic: it's anything that fills up the green bar or gives you a white bar section.

I like it though, it's an interesting support power to have.

Dusk Eclipse

2014-06-06, 09:57 AM

I seriously doubt that item will get out of the PBE with a 25% AS steroid pretty much on demand, a lower bonus would be much more reasonable, but I don't know how much.

Anarion

2014-06-06, 10:04 AM

I seriously doubt that item will get out of the PBE with a 25% AS steroid pretty much on demand, a lower bonus would be much more reasonable, but I don't know how much.

I know everyone is going Chicken Little on this, but is this really that much better than an aoe shield+MR (locket), a heal+cleanse (Mikaels), or a teamwide aoe speed buff (Talisman)? Buying the AS item means putting gold towards that and not towards one of the other items. Or if you're buying something else and getting the AS later, it won't affect laning phase and will be another item slot dedicated towards a team-wide buff when everyone has built up all their items in the late-game.

ex cathedra

2014-06-06, 10:13 AM

I know everyone is going Chicken Little on this, but is this really that much better than an aoe shield+MR (locket), a heal+cleanse (Mikaels), or a teamwide aoe speed buff (Talisman)? Buying the AS item means putting gold towards that and not towards one of the other items. Or if you're buying something else and getting the AS later, it won't affect laning phase and will be another item slot dedicated towards a team-wide buff when everyone has built up all their items in the late-game.

Correct. The AS buff meaningfully affects pretty much every ADC, virtually no supports, only a few junglers (and then often negligibly), some top laners (and only a few get a particularly large benefit from it), and very few mid laners. The Aegis aura+shield or Shurelya's movespeed buff meaningfully affects everyone on your team, and the Mikael's active has a much more powerful effect on any given single target than the AS buff does, so I legitimately fail to see what's ostensibly overpowered about this item.

Dusk Eclipse

2014-06-06, 10:14 AM

All of those items have an internal cooldown, from what I understood it will proc every time you use a heal or shield and it last for 6 seconds so in theory it is possible for a support to constantly proc the AS steroid for example Sona's Aria of Perseverance is on a 7 sec cooldown, Karma's, Nami's, Lulu's and Soraka's heal/shield are on 10 secs cooldow. Thresh's, Morgana's and Taric's heal/shield are on much higher cooldowns (though thresh is an AoE).

I think it would be a pretty neat adition, but it still needs some fine-tuning before it hits the live server.

ex cathedra

2014-06-06, 10:15 AM

Dusk Eclipse

2014-06-06, 10:18 AM

Not really, I've never delved to deeply in stats value or gold efficiency :smallredface: It is just a gut feeling, but nevermind I'm just a lowly bronze.

Olinser

2014-06-06, 10:38 AM

You guys realize that Zeke's offers a comparable value of stats that affects a comparably small selection of your team mates and no one considers that item to be particularly good, right?

Zeke's also offers absolutely zero stats that are useful to supports other than cooldown reduction, costs 2450, is made from components that are almost totally useless to supports in laning phase (making it a 2nd or 3rd buy at best), and straight AD/Lifesteal is useful on an extremely small portion of non-ADCs, making it a niche end game buy for all AD teams.

AS is useful for considerably a larger section of champions, the item costs you only 1900, builds out of an item that a decent number of supports could actually use in the laning phase, and the item itself could be extremely useful in a 2v2 situation at the end of the laning phase, AND comes with a steroid that would make taking towers significantly faster.

I don't think this item is going to be the end of the world, but it seems to be considerably more powerful mid and end game than any of the other team-boosting items, especially considering it only gets better when used in tandem with other support items.

Anarion

2014-06-06, 11:28 AM

I don't think this item is going to be the end of the world, but it seems to be considerably more powerful mid and end game than any of the other team-boosting items, especially considering it only gets better when used in tandem with other support items.

This is not more powerful than Mikael's or Shurelyas at all. Not even close. An AS buff is good in the specific case in which your ADC and possibly some bruisers are in a position to be constantly attacking, rather than CCed or caught out. If that happens, however, you were already going to win the team fight! Shurelyas and Mikael's fix bad positioning and make good team fights happen in the first place.

Olinser

2014-06-06, 11:34 AM

This is not more powerful than Mikael's or Shurelyas at all. Not even close. An AS buff is good in the specific case in which your ADC and possibly some bruisers are in a position to be constantly attacking, rather than CCed or caught out. If that happens, however, you were already going to win the team fight! Shurelyas and Mikael's fix bad positioning and make good team fights happen in the first place.

You're looking at this the wrong way. This isn't just a teamfight buff. Although if you can trigger it teamwide a 25% AS buff is a big deal in the 5-8 range for everybody.

25% team wide AS is a huge mid game buff to taking turrets, dragon, or Baron. And it appears as though it will be triggered by other buffs like Mikhael's or Locket.

And a 25% buff on your ADC in the middle of a fight is a big deal at pretty much any point in the game whether its 2v2 in lane or an endgame team fight.

Anarion

2014-06-06, 11:48 AM

You're looking at this the wrong way. This isn't just a teamfight buff. Although if you can trigger it teamwide a 25% AS buff is a big deal in the 5-8 range for everybody.

25% team wide AS is a huge mid game buff to taking turrets, dragon, or Baron. And it appears as though it will be triggered by other buffs like Mikhael's or Locket.

And a 25% buff on your ADC in the middle of a fight is a big deal at pretty much any point in the game whether its 2v2 in lane or an endgame team fight.

I hope so, I'm not going to spend nearly 2k gold on an item that does nothing. Especially when I could have bought Shurelyas instead.

Honestly, yes it increases offense instead of move speed or defense. That's cool and it will have many of the advantages that you describe. This does not make it OP, and I maintain that it is in fact worse than many of the existing items. If you buy the AS item and the other support buys a Shurelyas, be ready to lose some team fights when somebody messes up and gets picked.

mrcarter11

2014-06-06, 12:30 PM

The item reads as the following to me. " You spent 2k gold to give me an extra pair of Berserker's Greaves." It's useful for very few supports, very few midlaners, all adc's, half the top laners, and possibly half the junglers. Unless you're playing a team around it, with a support who has AoE procs, like Karma, I doubt it'll be OP. I also doubt you'll see any dramatic improvement in the speed at which you take Baron or Dragon. But it is cool to see a new item made with the two new items they released a little ways back.

Dusk Eclipse

2014-06-06, 02:49 PM

Sweet Promos here I go!

:smallbiggrin:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/Dusk_eclipse/MorganaSupportRanked_zps1032a84b.png
I built FQC, Sightstone, Ionian boots, Michaels and Zhonya's, not sure if that would be optimal.

Siosilvar

2014-06-06, 03:07 PM

BoRK is going to be so much sustained DPS now... it was already hitting harder than BT against most targets, and with more damage on BoRK and less on BT, it's going to be strictly superior. Shield up to 410 at 18 < tons of deeps. Maybe IE is a comparable first buy, but it's still going to be more expensive, isn't it?

The only real downside to BoRK first is that the bonus damage doesn't crit and doesn't help with towers. But with the attack speed buffs, that may or may not even be an issue.

... The only reason I wasn't buying ghostblade on AD's was becasue of the more limited acive for ranged champions. It give crit chance, AD, and armor penetration, while the active gives MS and AS. What's not to like about this item?

The fact that it doesn't give enough of any one stat to be really useful in a full build. Don't get me wrong, it's a great item for super fast games or on bruisers where you only expect to have 1-2 damage items, but an ADC is better off with a big AD item (currently BT), a big AS/Crit item (PD), and a big ArPen item (LW) than exchanging any one of those for a Ghostblade.

It does offer CDR, though, which none of the other items do except for the new mana steal one (and Zephyr, but Zephyr also suffers from not giving enough compared to other items).

Don Julio Anejo

2014-06-06, 08:43 PM

BoRK is going to be so much sustained DPS now... it was already hitting harder than BT against most targets, and with more damage on BoRK and less on BT, it's going to be strictly superior. Shield up to 410 at 18 < tons of deeps. Maybe IE is a comparable first buy, but it's still going to be more expensive, isn't it?

The only real downside to BoRK first is that the bonus damage doesn't crit and doesn't help with towers. But with the attack speed buffs, that may or may not even be an issue.
Bork will be great for champs who can use it. Mainly, Vayne, Jax, Shyvanna, Warwick.. anyone that relies on sustained DPS through autoattacks. Nuke got slightly nerfed, which hurts champs that rely on it to burst/gank/self-peel - Tristana, Zed, Twitch, Ezreal. Overall, it's probably better as a generic ADC item now - enemy has Volibear and Cho'Gath stacking health/armor? Well, it's now a decent item on Caitlyn, though probably not as first buy. I think the biggest difference is that BoRK still costs 3200, while BT is now 3650, making the whole idea of getting BT because it's cheap, gives AD and lifesteal moot.

Interestingly, I can see Graves suddenly become a lot more popular - new BT will synergize really well with his passive, despite the cost increase.

But hey, now I might just be able to play Ashe in ranked and get away with it. She's my favourite ADC but is just so.. squishy against both assassins (Zed) and dive bruisers (Shyvanna) that appear in 90% of games.

Siosilvar

2014-06-06, 09:05 PM

Bork will be great for champs who can use it. -snip-

The thing about that is that every ADC relies heavily on autoattack DPS, even the ones we refer to as casters. And if it's going to stay the same price while its DPS skyrockets above BT's... well, BoRK + Doran's is comparable or better sustain and better damage, so even on ADCs with great AD scaling I'm probably going to be building it first. 8% current health is *huge* and evens out with BT at 690 health while being nearly 500 gold cheaper. EDIT: And giving attack speed.

Current BoRK already compares favorably with current BT in a full build with crit against almost every target, and they're just nerfing BT and buffing BoRK. Even from a defensive standpoint, the BoRK active and new BT passive are fairly similar in usefulness IMO.

*Maybe* some ADCs will be better off with one of the 80 AD items or the Essence Reaver first, but my gut feeling (before doing much math) is that we're going to see the League of BoRK replacing the League of BT. If I'm right, hopefully some time on the PBE reveals the issue.

ex cathedra

2014-06-06, 09:11 PM

New BotRK compares extremely unfavorably in actual lifesteal to BT, though.

Siosilvar

2014-06-06, 09:50 PM

New BotRK compares extremely unfavorably in actual lifesteal to BT, though.

13% of more DPS (BoRK+Doran's) for the same price as 15% (BT) is pretty comparable, I'd think. It's not as much sustain when you're just last-hitting, but I don't think the slight loss of lane sustain is that big a deal compared to how much stronger my back-of-the-envelope is putting it in a fight.

Don Julio Anejo

2014-06-06, 10:56 PM

The thing about that is that every ADC relies heavily on autoattack DPS, even the ones we refer to as casters. And if it's going to stay the same price while its DPS skyrockets above BT's... well, BoRK + Doran's is comparable or better sustain and better damage, so even on ADCs with great AD scaling I'm probably going to be building it first. 8% current health is *huge* and evens out with BT at 690 health while being nearly 500 gold cheaper. EDIT: And giving attack speed.

Current BoRK already compares favorably with current BT in a full build with crit against almost every target, and they're just nerfing BT and buffing BoRK. Even from a defensive standpoint, the BoRK active and new BT passive are fairly similar in usefulness IMO.

*Maybe* some ADCs will be better off with one of the 80 AD items or the Essence Reaver first, but my gut feeling (before doing much math) is that we're going to see the League of BoRK replacing the League of BT. If I'm right, hopefully some time on the PBE reveals the issue.
Someone like Vayne, Tristana or Kog that's pretty much exclusively auto-attack based? Yes, but they already build BoRK anyway. Someone like Graves or Corki? Only in a prolonged fight where he gets to sit back and auto, which don't typically doesn't happen until 15-20 minutes. Otherwise, they heavily rely on using their skills in a quick rotation to do as much damage as possible while sometimes auto-attacking. DPS doesn't matter if you can't burst down a snared squishy fast enough, for example. ADCs like Caitlyn or Lucian might switch to BoRK over BT (or they might just go for IE). Ezreal will build it more often than he does now, new BT is worse for him than the old one even without the price increase. But AD casters will stay AD casters and likely still build BT, especially ones that need to get in someones face to do damage (read: Graves).

ex cathedra

2014-06-06, 10:59 PM

13% of more DPS (BoRK+Doran's) for the same price as 15% (BT) is pretty comparable, I'd think. It's not as much sustain when you're just last-hitting, but I don't think the slight loss of lane sustain is that big a deal compared to how much stronger my back-of-the-envelope is putting it in a fight.

i'm fairly confident that botrk's on-hit damage doesn't proc lifesteal, firstly, and its proc is responsible for a great deal of that DPS.

Siosilvar

2014-06-06, 11:28 PM

i'm fairly confident that botrk's on-hit damage doesn't proc lifesteal, firstly, and its proc is responsible for a great deal of that DPS.

You can lifesteal off of Sheen, so I'm gonna have to ask for actual proof.

Forum Explorer

2014-06-06, 11:28 PM

So do any of the ranked teams I see around here happen to have any space. I'm looking to find some regular people to practice with.

I'm thinking of starting a team actually.

You guys realize that Zeke's offers a comparable value of stats that affects a comparably small selection of your team mates and no one considers that item to be particularly good, right?

Zeke's gives the support nothing though. This item is AP and Cooldown, which goes so well with so many of my supports. I don't think I'd pick it up if I was trying to be a second mid, but for someone like Lux, Janna, or Sona? In a heartbeat.

Dragonus45

2014-06-06, 11:36 PM

I'm thinking of starting a team actually.

Well PM me if when you start it and I'm in.

Litewarior

2014-06-06, 11:36 PM

Forum Explorer

2014-06-06, 11:45 PM

Well PM me if when you start it and I'm in.

Sure, what's your account name? I'll add you.

Dragonus45

2014-06-06, 11:47 PM

Sure, what's your account name? I'll add you.

Same as here.

Don Julio Anejo

2014-06-07, 12:52 AM

I'm thinking of starting a team actually.
I'm kinda interested. PM me in-game, my Summoner name is the same as the forum handle. Let me know what you're looking for/how serious you want the team to be, as I'm looking for something on the more casual side.

Togath

2014-06-07, 01:13 AM

I might be interested.:smallsmile:
I only recently reached level 30, but I am trying to improve at the game, and have wanted to try ranked for a while.
edit: I'm Viperadderon over there.

Forum Explorer

2014-06-07, 01:49 AM

For seriousness, well as long as we play a few ranked games every week and actually try to get better at the game, I'm fine with it.

Math_Mage

2014-06-07, 02:00 AM

I think what's more likely to happen is that people will be going Doran's Doran's Infinity Edge. Can win lanes easily, still have okay sustain, and the poke is much better. I don't think you'll be able to win duels with people who have BotRK unless you get lucky with crits, but that will be a much stronger lane build.
Huh? Back to that? That's, like, years old. (Also, I doubt it. Building a fast first item has huge advantages in mid-game, building a real lifesteal item first has huge advantages in lane. That's not gonna change just with the BT nerf.)

Ashen Lilies

2014-06-07, 02:41 AM

My champion focus at the moment: Fiora, Diana, Akali, Ryze, Vladimir.

Which lane am I playing again? :smallconfused:

TechnOkami

2014-06-07, 02:45 AM

My champion focus at the moment: Fiora, Diana, Akali, Ryze, Vladimir.

Which lane am I playing again? :smallconfused:

Support, methinks.

efdf

2014-06-07, 07:33 AM

You can lifesteal off of Sheen, so I'm gonna have to ask for actual proof.
for actual proof you're going to have to go in-game and test it yourself but i'm 100% certain botrk's on-hit does not benefit from lifesteal.

Litewarior

2014-06-07, 11:03 AM

Huh? Back to that? That's, like, years old. (Also, I doubt it. Building a fast first item has huge advantages in mid-game, building a real lifesteal item first has huge advantages in lane. That's not gonna change just with the BT nerf.)

I know that's an old build, but I'm pretty sure that's what we're going to be seeing. Two Dorans gives 6% lifesteal, and gives you slightly stronger laning power than someone who went doran's vamp scepter. This Doran's problem is that the regen doesn't scale at all, but lifesteal will, so you don't have to go bloodthirster. The Infinity Edge will just make you stronger all around except in sustain, but you have decent enough with the doran's blades.

Anarion

2014-06-07, 11:59 AM

for actual proof you're going to have to go in-game and test it yourself but i'm 100% certain botrk's on-hit does not benefit from lifesteal.

For what it's worth, the wiki does say that the bork passive is counted like wit's end and similar on-hit effects and cannot crit, which supports it not being able to lifesteal.

NineThePuma

2014-06-07, 12:05 PM

I'm pretty sure it can life steal, but there's really no good way of testing this other than having a five warmogs ashe and a regular ashe stand next to each other for me to stab in the face with my botrk.

ex cathedra

2014-06-07, 12:06 PM

I'm pretty sure it can life steal, but there's really no good way of testing this other than having a five wawrmogs volibear and an ashe stand next to each other for me to stab in the face with my botrk.

i played a game of top nidalee yesterday with botrk and my lifesteal against the wight camp stayed relatively constant despite my first attack having >100 bonus damage from botrk and my last hit having virtually zero.

Antonok

2014-06-07, 12:12 PM

I've been testing the Nidalee changes on the PBE lately. Gotta say I'm very pleased with what they're doing to her. They turned her into an AP bruiser and a decently viable jungle (what I've wished for since I first played her). Bit hard to get her Hunted passive off with traps but eh. I just pray to Draven that they keep pounce leaping towards the cursor and R at lvl 1 even if the rest of the changes don't make it thru.

Now if they'd only change her to straight AD/AP I'd be on top of Runeterra.

McDouggal

2014-06-07, 12:18 PM

I've played three more ranked games, and FINALLY got my first win.

http://imgur.com/a/rNjUN

ex cathedra

2014-06-07, 12:32 PM

Antonok

2014-06-07, 12:35 PM

why does she need to be straight ad or ap?

She doesn't, it'd just be nice (bit ocd on champs with mixed scaling). Though they added AP scaling on her takedown so its not near as big of a peeve as it was.

Ashen Lilies

2014-06-07, 12:49 PM

Never play Kayle. Or Evelynn. Or Malphite. Or Tristana. Or Kog'Maw. Or Ezreal. Or Jax. Or Akali. Or... i'm stopping here actually.

Siosilvar

2014-06-07, 12:59 PM

For what it's worth, the wiki does say that the bork passive is counted like wit's end and similar on-hit effects and cannot crit, which supports it not being able to lifesteal.

You can lifesteal off of Sheen proc and Hydra AoE but not crit with them.

i played a game of top nidalee yesterday with botrk and my lifesteal against the wight camp stayed relatively constant despite my first attack having >100 bonus damage from botrk and my last hit having virtually zero.

That's because the proc damage is capped at 60 against monsters and minions and 15% of 60 is 9.

However, I tested it with 65% lifesteal and it appears that you're correct and the passive does *not* benefit from lifesteal. That clears up a lot of my worries about new BoRK, actually, though it brings up the question of why a physical damage passive on an item with lifesteal does not benefit from lifesteal.

I also noticed a bug where taking Dragon's DoT and lifestealing in the same frame reduces the displayed lifesteal number by however much the DoT was (lifestealing for 58 a hit, some frames would be only 43). I can guarantee that this wasn't because I was hitting maximum health, since I made sure I was below half the whole time.

Antonok

2014-06-07, 01:21 PM

Never play Kayle. Or Evelynn. Or Malphite. Or Tristana. Or Kog'Maw. Or Ezreal. Or Jax. Or Akali. Or... i'm stopping here actually.

Don't remind me.... :smallsigh:

NineThePuma

2014-06-07, 01:26 PM

To be fair, the only one of those that doesn't have the capacity to go both ways reasonably is akali. Every other one is valid in some circumstance as their 'off' build.

Eldariel

2014-06-07, 01:35 PM

May I recruit a couple of you guys here to try something a little strange:

5 man team game, finish Beginner bots ASAP.
e.g.
All take long sword, aspd runes, heal, barrier, and teleport (on a select couple).
Warwick, Sona, Jarvan, and high attack damage output champions.

And just push.

I just need a magnitude of "Fast game end" time for this mode.

We did this:
http://i.imgur.com/ml7r0Hu.jpg
Practically speaking that's 4:45 or so, but the game seems to count the time after the nexus explosion before the Win Screen to game length. I think it's still possible to do about 30 secs - 1 minute better; when the bots came to defend at Nexus, we weren't able to kill them efficiently and so we lost some extra time. Oh, and at the start of the game before minion spawn we suicided to the first mid tower for about 1000 damage, just as a tip to any prospective speedrunners. The first tower is pretty tough due to the champion damage reduction.

Jarvan didn't feel optimal due to his low personal contribution; we instead opted for Elise to juggle tower aggro and for the spiderlings + W to wreck towers fast. Yi plus ASpd is nice and Jinx felt obvious with minigun plus missiles for waveclear. We tried Heimer too but his turret cooldown is too long on low levels. Elise spiderlings are nice tho. Yi's waveclear is also something worth noting. Aatrox is another champ that's worth considering, again to juggle tower aggro and such. Like I said, with optimal mechanical play, optimized runepages and masteries & picks you could probably cut another minute. We only got to try two comps and we didn't go very in-depth with optimizing the pages since most of the group lacked access to all runes and we were pressed for time. But there you go, under 5 mins is definitely and quite easily doable, even with huge mechanical mistakes.

EDIT: Oh, and in addition to getting everyone back fast, TP-tanking minions feels really useful so I definitely prefer TP over Barrier.

ex cathedra

2014-06-07, 01:42 PM

You can lifesteal off of Sheen proc and Hydra AoE but not crit with them.
don't cite hydra proc when it explicitly states that it benefits from lifesteal to differentiate itself from another physical damage on-hit proc that doesn't benefit from lifesteal (tiamat's). the fact that you can lifesteal off of hydra is clearly both a feature and an exception. you don't lifesteal from muramana, either.

That's because the proc damage is capped at 60 against monsters and minions and 15% of 60 is 9.
Yeah, which means that you deal max damage from 1200 HP and up against monsters, but it doesn't explain the consistent amount of lifesteal between the HP values of 1200 and 0.

However, I tested it with 65% lifesteal and it appears that you're correct and the passive does *not* benefit from lifesteal. That clears up a lot of my worries about new BoRK, actually, though it brings up the question of why a physical damage passive on an item with lifesteal does not benefit from lifesteal.
because on-hits don't benefit from lifesteal or spellvamp, and while effects that modify your next attack do. the in-game terminology is inconsistent (abilities that apply on-hits also generally apply attack modifiers despite not all attack modifiers sharing the same attributes as actual on-hits) but the mechanics aren't.

Grytorm

2014-06-07, 02:28 PM

I just played a game as Poppy which was fairly fun even if we didn't win and I could have done better. I rushed Trinity into tank items. By the end I had Frozen Heart, Hexdrinker, and Spirit Visage. I did okay and one point I got two enemies away from the teamfight and killed them both after they wasted ulties on me.

NineThePuma

2014-06-07, 02:33 PM

personally, I woulda gone for randuins over hexdrinker; even just a Giant's Belt would have drastically upped your toughness.

Grytorm

2014-06-07, 03:00 PM

Perhaps. That does make sense. Although tankyness wasn't my main problem it was decision making I would guess. I was often killing their squishies on the back line and I would turn around and see my team dead. I definitely could have played better. I picked up Hexdrinker in the middle of getting the Frozen Heart, I had the Glacial Shroud and I wanted some MR to protect myself from their top Amumu and mid Viktor. But I do see that picking up something else would probably be better.

Siosilvar

2014-06-07, 03:15 PM

-snip-

Don't patronize me.

That's all I have to say.

McDouggal

2014-06-07, 05:48 PM

CLG vs. Dignitas

That looked like Dig didn't know how to deal with CLG's rotations. Just. WOW.

Also, that postgame interview. LOL.

Olinser

2014-06-07, 06:50 PM

CLG vs. Dignitas

That looked like Dig didn't know how to deal with CLG's rotations. Just. WOW.

Also, that postgame interview. LOL.

Dig has been getting by on individual talent, their teamwork is most definitely lacking.

CLG had them completely outrotated, but Dig's superior comp eventually won through.

Also, Seraph was completely and totally ineffective the entire game. #FREENIEN

Math_Mage

2014-06-07, 07:11 PM

PersonMan

2014-06-07, 07:16 PM

Regarding BotRK on-hit healing: Seeing as it used to have "and heal you for an equal amount" on the %HP damage, and that got removed, wouldn't the logical thing to think be that it doesn't, seeing as Riot explicitly removed it?

It used to be on-hit magic damage with equal heal, now it's just on-hit physical damage 'cause nerfs.

Eldariel

2014-06-07, 07:48 PM

Dig has been getting by on individual talent, their teamwork is most definitely lacking.

CLG had them completely outrotated, but Dig's superior comp eventually won through.

Also, Seraph was completely and totally ineffective the entire game. #FREENIEN

Seraph was sacrificed, more or less. The first death was apparently Link's fault and since then CLG focused on their winning side instead of their losing side, which incidentally won them the game eventually. Nien would've done no better (and he left of his own volition, and in part due to family issues anyways). That said, I don't think Shyvana was the best pick here. If he got going and toplane had gone differently, he could've been a splitpush terror tho, so I can see the logic behind the pick but it certainly didn't pan out.

Also, Dig's composition wasn't superior. I don't get why the casters kept at that. Dig had a great teamfight team but CLG had far superior poke; that's not a superior comp, that's a different one and CLG's map movement allowed them to force Dig to play their game instead and thus Dig never really got the straight-up teamfight they needed. I had thought the community grew out of the "better AOE = better team comp"-stuff back in Season 1 already. They had different comps and CLG played theirs better. Dig needed to setup a flank and a hard engage but they never managed. Had that been e.g. Gambit instead of Dig, the game would've very likely ended differently. Morgana also played a huge part in making it hard for Dig to actually get the engage they needed; Black Shield is a disgusting ability.

Slayn82

2014-06-07, 08:32 PM

I keep playing Corki mostly, with Poppy and either Alistair or Nunu coming close. I'm still only lvl 20, and far from being really good, but here's my opinion of the impact of the item changes on test im my gameplay - on Brazilian servers.

Looking at the notes of the proposed item changes, i feel confident that i'll keep my plan of going for BT, starting with the long sword +3 pots, rushing for an early Vamp Scepter and trying to reach the BF sword before the other side, the exact moment when i'm more often than not getting a double kill over their bot duo, unless i'm too much behind. Up to this point, things have very much improved, as i get more 5 AD, at the exact moment when the reduced life steal from Vamp Scepter would really hurt. On the other side, my oposition gets 1 less AD, and 10 less HP than before with Doran's blade, and are stimulated to double down. So, the extra cost on finishing the BT is compensated by the extra Doran's Blade from enemy's ADC.

On this plan, i'm commited to using Teleport and Exaust as my spells. On bot laning, the versatility of phosphorous bomb at punishing the enemy duo for staying too close to each other, negating them having the easy escape of hiding in bushes, or just to dismiss an enemy wave and leave the exausted enemy facing the mob alone can't be understimated. If i'm playing with a experienced Soraka as my support, we can sometimes go Soraka's Starcall, Corki's Phosphorous Bomb on both enemies and clearing minions, Exaust on ADC, Soraka's Starcall hitting both enemies, while i FF on their ADC. If their ADC flashes, i Valk right along.

And then Soraka gets a very affordable item that makes her almost a better Nunu support than Nunu at early and mid game. Specially given the changes on the chalices, i see Ardent Censer being very popular. After playing with Alistair (who also will become pretty awesome at teamfights), i've been wondering if starting with 2 Charms + pots would be feasible, as i'm very annoyed at the Shurelia's right now. Well, Ardent Censer is AP, mana, CDR and the equivalent to basic boots on a single balanced package. Awesome.

On BT vs BotRK, i consider the shield passive on BT a good improvement for Corki, as he is naturally very squishy. With 15 seconds, that shield will stay the better part of the time full, so it's more or less a free giant's belt. The loss of damage and the increased price get compensated by the early strenght of BF Sword, and nowadays i'm more often than not getting Zeal or Sheen after the BF Sword to keep pressure and afford boots. As Corki is naturally very bursty with TriForce, the nerf on BotRK means nothing directly to him, but the enemy ADC is dealing on the short intervall less damage overall, and have to endure more in the fight.

I think Jinks gets the same benefits overall.

Godskook

2014-06-07, 11:13 PM

Don't patronize me.

That's all I have to say.

Could you explain how you think he's patronizing you? I've re-read his post 3-4 times, and looked up the definition of the word at least twice, and spent all day at work reviewing this in my head, and I *STILL* don't see anything other than you deflecting your own unwillingness to do even the simplest of research to back up your own position.

Joran

2014-06-07, 11:37 PM

Dig has been getting by on individual talent, their teamwork is most definitely lacking.

CLG had them completely outrotated, but Dig's superior comp eventually won through.

Also, Seraph was completely and totally ineffective the entire game. #FREENIEN

DIG had a couple really nice strategic games against C9 and LMQ. They at least know what they're doing now compared to TSM.

Seraph was sacrificed, more or less. The first death was apparently Link's fault and since then CLG focused on their winning side instead of their losing side, which incidentally won them the game eventually. Nien would've done no better (and he left of his own volition, and in part due to family issues anyways). That said, I don't think Shyvana was the best pick here. If he got going and toplane had gone differently, he could've been a splitpush terror tho, so I can see the logic behind the pick but it certainly didn't pan out.

Also, Dig's composition wasn't superior. I don't get why the casters kept at that. Dig had a great teamfight team but CLG had far superior poke; that's not a superior comp, that's a different one and CLG's map movement allowed them to force Dig to play their game instead and thus Dig never really got the straight-up teamfight they needed. I had thought the community grew out of the "better AOE = better team comp"-stuff back in Season 1 already. They had different comps and CLG played theirs better. Dig needed to setup a flank and a hard engage but they never managed. Had that been e.g. Gambit instead of Dig, the game would've very likely ended differently. Morgana also played a huge part in making it hard for Dig to actually get the engage they needed; Black Shield is a disgusting ability.

I kept thinking DIG was going to eventually catch the team out. There wasn't much in the way of peel outside of Morgana/Shyvana, but then again, Nidalee, Lucian, and Kha'zix all have nice escapes on their own.

Forum Explorer

2014-06-07, 11:57 PM

DIG had a couple really nice strategic games against C9 and LMQ. They at least know what they're doing now compared to TSM.

I kept thinking DIG was going to eventually catch the team out. There wasn't much in the way of peel outside of Morgana/Shyvana, but then again, Nidalee, Lucian, and Kha'zix all have nice escapes on their own.

I think DIG's teamwork has certainly improved from last split to this one.

Same. Right up until they lost, I thought they were going to win. They just couldn't force fights anywhere until their entire base was in shambles.

Anyways, I'm noticing that a lot of Kayle's are going Hurricane. Is it really that good on her, in comparison to Wit's End? Wit's End does provide extra magic damage, magic resist, and magic pen. While Hurricane I believe has more attack speed, and a small boost to Kayle's AoE. I believe they are comparable in price. So why is Hurricane so much more popular, even when going up against teams with some serious magic damage?

mrcarter11

2014-06-08, 12:17 AM

I think DIG's teamwork has certainly improved from last split to this one.

Same. Right up until they lost, I thought they were going to win. They just couldn't force fights anywhere until their entire base was in shambles.

Anyways, I'm noticing that a lot of Kayle's are going Hurricane. Is it really that good on her, in comparison to Wit's End? Wit's End does provide extra magic damage, magic resist, and magic pen. While Hurricane I believe has more attack speed, and a small boost to Kayle's AoE. I believe they are comparable in price. So why is Hurricane so much more popular, even when going up against teams with some serious magic damage?

I actually had faith in CLG to win that.. And I was quite happy when they did. I was sad that the top lane got sacked though.

Anyways, as far as I'm aware, RH is gaining popularity as her second item since, the bolts apply the damage from Nashor's passive, while also stacking Kayle's passive on each of the three targets. So, three people get their resistances shreded, while also usually eating the splash damage. As far as I'm aware, it came into popular use about 4-6 weeks ago in Korea.

Siosilvar

2014-06-08, 02:22 AM

Could you explain how you think he's patronizing you? I've re-read his post 3-4 times, and looked up the definition of the word at least twice, and spent all day at work reviewing this in my head, and I *STILL* don't see anything other than you deflecting your own unwillingness to do even the simplest of research to back up your own position.

I literally test it out myself and get in response three paragraphs confirming exactly what I just noticed. Maybe I've just had a bad day, but I can't see that as anything except patronizing.

Winthur

2014-06-08, 02:36 AM

Could you explain how you think he's patronizing you? I've re-read his post 3-4 times, and looked up the definition of the word at least twice, and spent all day at work reviewing this in my head, and I *STILL* don't see anything other than you deflecting your own unwillingness to do even the simplest of research to back up your own position.

its the lower case letters

I literally test it out myself and get in response three paragraphs confirming exactly what I just noticed.
yeah because you clearly didn't want explanation for why onhits don't go off lifesteal
on behalf of aetherdurex im sorry for providing content and explaining things

Godskook

2014-06-08, 03:58 AM

because on-hits don't benefit from lifesteal or spellvamp, and while effects that modify your next attack do.

According to the wiki:

Tiger Udyr's persistent effect procs lifesteal.

Kayle's E procs spellvamp

Cho's E procs spellvamp(arguably not an on-hit at all, but still)

Jax's ult procs spellvamp

Darius' passive has mixed listings about its ability to proc spellvamp, but I can't test it as I don't own him yet.

Togath

2014-06-08, 04:12 AM

Something I just thought of; what are generally considered the top junglers/toplanes/midlanes? There's a sort of top tier for support(Braum, Thresh, Morgana, and.. Janna I think?) and adc(Lucian, Twitch, Kog'Maw), so I'd imagine there's a similar for other rolls, correct?
I figure it might help me decide which ones to aim for(or practice with) next(especially since I've ended up saving up a large sum of ip again):smallsmile:

Cogwheel

2014-06-08, 04:19 AM

Woah, Kog is popular now? Excellent.

PersonMan

2014-06-08, 04:36 AM

Top top laners? I'd say Renekton, Shyvana and Trundle are there right now, but that's mainly based on LCS popularity.

Mid lane we've got LeBlanc, Orianna...probably some others that I'm less aware of.

Junglers, I have no real idea.

thracian

2014-06-08, 04:40 AM

Top junglers include Lee Sin and Elise, you missed Jax in top lane and Kayle and Ziggs are both popular mid (Kayle also played top and jungle, because lolKayle). Nami is a super strong support atm, and as much as Winthur likes to deny it Janna is not (though she's still eminently playable). Karma is seen mid and support as well, although doesn't appear to be tip-top in either at the moment. Nidalee is of course a powerful pick in mid.

EDIT: Can confirm Udyr Q passive damage does not proc lifesteal. Has the exact same lifesteal per hit in Tiger stance and in Bear stance.

Eldariel

2014-06-08, 04:49 AM

Toplane: Jax, Ryze, Kayle, Shyvana, Irelia, Lulu, Trundle, Renekton

Mid: Ziggs, Kayle, Lulu, Kassadin, Kha'Zix, Yasuo, Karthus, Orianna, Twisted Fate, LeBlanc, Nidalee, Syndra, Anivia [if you believe Froggen, and why wouldn't you]

Jungle: Elise, Lee Sin, Kha'Zix, Evelynn, Pantheon, Jarvan, Vi, Nunu

Off the top of my head. Also, OGN Club Masters Finals (http://www.twitch.tv/ongamenet); SKT T1 vs. Samsung.

thracian

2014-06-08, 05:03 AM

Prediction: Gragas become FotM at some point in the near-ish future in top lane.

Winthur

2014-06-08, 05:08 AM

Nami is a super strong support atm, and as much as Winthur likes to deny it Janna is not.

*shrug* At least she isn't Taric. I don't think I ever denied that she isn't top tier at the moment and I suppose for most purposes Nami fills Janna's role well and does more (unless you really need super full disengage), but Janna can survive the FotM picks pretty well (Thresh/Leo/Morg; kinda bad against Sona and Nami obv) and the teammate saving potential is there. Also Janna is a super strong waifu.

PersonMan

2014-06-08, 05:27 AM

Prediction: Gragas become FotM at some point in the near-ish future in top lane.

Both pre and post rework Gragas had/has significant top lane potential, imo. IIRC it was mentioned here ages ago as well. I can see why it'd get popular once more people start to realize how effective it can be.

Don Julio Anejo

2014-06-08, 05:28 AM

ADC: Twitch, Lucian, Draven and Caitlyn are still considered top picks/FotM. Vayne has fallen out of favour since she can't deal well with most FotM picks and stronger engage supports - she's still played a lot but is no longer god tier that she was in S3. Kog'Maw is played in the LCS but not in yoloqueue since you heavily rely on your team to peel for you. He's actually the least picked ADC if you don't count Urgot. Jinx is super popular but isn't considered god tier since lack of a dash/escape prevents her from solo carrying games as hard as, say, Lucian and she doesn't have Draven's god tier damage.

Support: Thresh, Leona and Morgana are still the undisputed top 3. Nami is catching up in popularity. Karma was considered super strong for a while, but she falls off hard in utility past the laning phase - she mostly offers an AoE speedboost and an OK slow with her Q, no-where near the other 4. Pretty sure this was brought up in the previous thread.

thracian

2014-06-08, 05:49 AM

Don't discount the value of a free Shurelia's in addition to another Shurelia's.

Winthur

2014-06-08, 05:52 AM

Morgana still the undisputed top 3.

Be mindful however that Morgana has a lot of innate risk to her because if you miss any bindings you're pretty useless in the laning phase (well, or at least - not contributing properly; sure a spell shield is useful, but it's only good to stop engages and not at all to provide sustain). You still have a lot of utility and not as catastrophic issues as Blitzcrank (whom you render completely obsolete) but be mindful that on paper she loses to any poke supports.

Of course, the best part about the trio is the fact that they're very good at catching people and that can turn even a bad lane around. Thresh, for one, is, on paper, outpoked by Sona, Nami, Karma or Zyra, but there's the hook and he still has a ton of unique utility.

So ya, Thresh/Leo/Morg, but IMHO Sona and maybe Annie (unless they gutted her too hard) are underrated gems and both simple to play.

Eldariel

2014-06-08, 05:56 AM

Syndra is the best support. Does the Blitz-thing with buffs while having the longest range stun in the game and insane zone control and obscene level 6 kill potential (and great poke before then). Syndra with some ballery controls ridiculous zones. Vel'Koz and Zyra are fun too, of course, but neither of them does the Syndra quite as well.

EDIT: Okay, obviously Ashe ult has longer range than Syndra E balls but whatever. Anivia Q's detonation might be slightly bigger too, or at least the same, and Heimer Ult Grenade does outrange it with bounces.

Winthur

2014-06-08, 05:59 AM

does the Syndra
Do the Syndra!
Swing your balls from side to side,
Come on, it's time to go do the Syndra
Take one creep and then, again,
Let's do the Syndra, altogether, now!