psionic mages- legal or not?

[zyggythorn]

So in the main home campaign I play in, each player got a huge awesomesauce bonus. An ability stacking with our cl, not ecl, just character level.
In our party of 6 there is a freedom pally/celestial beacon (so he can get the half celestial template) who get redonkulous bonuses to physical-everythings, a rogue/wizard/wild mage with innate wild magic (as in, on par with the Doctor), a full druid who... Actually I don't know what he got... A druid/ranger who is on the path to literal godhood (divine ranks begin at lv 20), a sorcerer who just lost access to spontaneous spell casting as a sorc- but equally badass racial tech, and little old me- a Half-Orc barbarian/ranger/illithid slayer/aerial avenger- who happens to be a psionic gestalt. Something about being to vessel of a mad god.
My question is- are psionics and mages allowed to overlap? If so, what penalties do I incur?

To clarify any questions real quick- I am a twf ranger, and with full manifester levels. The aerial avenger thing? I was a not-quite-tengu for a good long time.
I was thinking wizard, seeing as (1) I have more than enough Int to support it (20- see mad god), (2) wizards must study magic- and so this is a legitimate RP choice, and (3) the Mad God was housed in my right arm, which has since been replaced with a magitech water arm- meaning I have something well within reach to act as my spell book.

(Yes, I will follow up with abjurant champion- my BAB is 10 at the moment.)

[Feint's End]

Why should there be a RAW problem? This is purely up to your dm and roleplaying.

[Gildedragon]

what dya mean by "overlap"
Be in the same setting? I don't see why not
Ditto multiclassing between them. There are no rules against this and there are examples of them interacting with each other (see: Spell to Power Erudite)

As to psi-magic transparency: generally they are treated as more or less identical (detect magic detects psi, dispell dispells, AMF is also an APF, dead magic zones have no psi...) but it is uyp to the DM how transparent they are.

With me the transparency is total: Psicraft = Spellcraft; UMD = UPD; magic item wise (and featwise) Dorjes = Wands; Crowns = Staves; Powerstones = Scrolls, feats that affect one affect the other. and powers are just a different spell-list.

[zyggythorn]

Why should there be a RAW problem? This is purely up to your dm and roleplaying.

The issue at hand is that I recall a rule stating the mages were not allowed to gain psionics, whereas psionics could gain caster levels, albeit with HP damage per spell lv cast.
More than that, this is my first campaign with this particular DM, and he has stated that he has already had power creep issues in game. (Mind you, he was staring at the pally at that time, but still)

[Red Fel]

Assuming you're playing 3.5 (because I can't help you on PF matters), I see no issues.

By means of comparison, Wizard 20 // Psion 20 is a perfectly legitimate build in terms of gestalt. As a rule, if nothing on your non-psionic side is advancing psionics, and you're not using two PrCs at the same level, I can't see any reason the build would be non rules-legal.

Admittedly, like most gestalts and other optional rules, there is an element of "ask your DM," but I can see no reason for them to be mutually exclusive. I've never heard of the rule you're describing - it would be like saying that casters can't use both arcane and divine, or spellcasting and incarnum, or spellcasting and martial maneuvers. Consider, for example, the existence of the Cerebremancer PrC (XPH), which advances both arcane casting and manifesting, or the Sanctified Mind (LoM), which advances divine casting and manifesting.

Now, let's be clear what that all means. That means you have a spellcasting list and spellcasting feats and caster level, and that is independent of your powers list and psionic feats and manifester level. Things that advance CL will generally not advance ML, and vice-versa. Even if you're playing with the transparency rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#psionicsMagicTransparenc y), the two aren't exclusive.

All that said, it may be legal, but it's not necessarily practical. That's not your question, however.

Rock on.

[Gildedragon]

The issue at hand is that I recall a rule stating the mages were not allowed to gain psionics, whereas psionics could gain caster levels, albeit with HP damage per spell lv cast.
More than that, this is my first campaign with this particular DM, and he has stated that he has already had power creep issues in game. (Mind you, he was staring at the pally at that time, but still)

A) Never heard or seen that rule. Might be an older editions thing, setting specific thing, homebrew thing, or I just didn't read the rules as thorougly. I am betting it is option #3: homebrew

B) Powercreep issues with the sort of abilities he's giving away. Well ascatic nepomycroft.

[zyggythorn]

Technically, it was item creep.

Which is fine because he just pulled a new world, new body thing. No equipment remains....

off to make my naked armor now! (Yay mage armor and mage shield spells)

[Rubik]

The O.P. may want to check out both cerebremancer (from the XPH) and the mind mage (from Dragon Magazine #313). The first might not be so useful to you, but the latter might be, depending on if your DM allows it for your gestaltiness. It has abilities which are uber-useful for any psionic/arcane theurge independent of CL/ML advancement.


Things that advance CL will generally not advance ML, and vice-versa. Even if you're playing with the transparency rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#psionicsMagicTransparenc y), the two aren't exclusive.Assuming any level of transparency, items (orange ioun stones) and spells/powers (Greater/Consumptive Field) will boost both CL and ML simultaneously. I'm sure there are other effects that will, too, though nothing else specifically comes to mind at the moment. Other things don't, such as Practiced Spellcaster/Practiced Manifester, but that's because feats generally (but not always) aren't subject to transparency. (See the Spell-Like Ability feats for an example of transparent feats.)

[zyggythorn]

Its a homebrew gestalt- my ML is equal to character level, so at the moment I'm lv 12 (3bbn/2rng/3slay(illithid)/3airave/1wiz), and as you can see from the levels, I qualify for abjurant champion. Which (at lv 5) makes my CL equal to my BAB.
Hopefully he will accept transparency on feats as well. Don't see why he wouldn't though!