highest level persistable spells allowable

[clericgirl]

Assuming Dmm Persist is in play what is the highest level spell you can persist?

I'm looking at both top ten persisted spells (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7543) and persisted spells per class (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7468.0) however the highest these go to is lv 6.

[cosmonuts]

Cleric with DMM (Persist), DMM (Heighten), and 100 nightsticks (roughly how many a level 20 WBL can afford) gets 400 turning attempts, which can be used to persist a spell heightened to level 394.

[holywhippet]

Level 9 obviously, it's just that most of the really good spells you want to persist are lower level. Looking at the SRD most of the level 9 spells look like they can't be persisted since they don't have a suitable duration. You could persist holy/unholy aura as a level 8 spell though.

[Ikeren]

9th Level:
Choose Destiny (DESTINY DOMAIN, 9) Swift, 1 round/level - roll everything twice, choose the better.
Divine Retribution (DLCS, 9) 10 min/level Pick an energy element. Any attack to hit you (area, target, etc) is reflected back, and turned into sacred or profane damage (Red dragon example)
End to Strife (BoED, 9) 80 feet, 1 round/level - anyone that makes an attack takes 20d6 damage (no save), SR Yes. Decide lethal or non-lethal when casting.
Moonfire (SpC, 9) (Moon Domain only) 1 round level - 1d8 damage/2 levels (max 10d8) ref half, undead and shapechangers take 1d8/level (max 20d8). All magical auras glow blue. Shape changed creatures must make a will save or return to original form. True form is shown either way. Negates electricity damage unless opponent makes CL check against 10+your CL.
Visage of the Deity Greater (9, Cdiv, SpC) - Fly twice speed with good manoeuvrability, +1 natural armor, low light vision, resist 10 as above, immunity to disease, +4 versus poison, Dr 10 magic, SR 25, and +2 dex/int, +4 STR, CON, CHA, WIS
If evil: Twice speed average maneuverability, 2 claw and bite attacks (1d4/1d6), darkvision 60, 10 resists, immune poison, DR 10magic, SR 25, +4 STR, DEX, INT, +2 Con, Cha.

Of them, only Choose Destiny is really worth blowing a 9th evel slot.

[Esgath]

The guy who made those lists disappeared from the boards and thus never finished his work, but you can persist at least up to level 9th spells just fine.
Are you having trouble selecting level 7 spells?

[clericgirl]

The guy who made those lists disappeared from the boards and thus never finished his work, but you can persist at least up to level 9th spells just fine.
Are you having trouble selecting level 7 spells?

I've got twelve spells that I can persist per day as a negativly charged cleric.

This is what I have so far
Divine Power
Negative Energy Aura
Righteous Might
Consumptive Field
Infernal Transformation
Greater Visage of the Deity
Unholy Aura,
Divine Retaliation

I thought about persisting anti-magic field since I've taken Extraordinary Spell Aim.

I'm just trying to think of other great spells, or better spells than what I've got.

[cosmonuts]

Holy Star (SpC?) is a terrific spell.

[The Grue]

Cleric with DMM (Persist), DMM (Heighten), and 100 nightsticks (roughly how many a level 20 WBL can afford) gets 400 turning attempts, which can be used to persist a spell heightened to level 394.

I don't think either metamagic feats or spell levels work that way.

[cosmonuts]

I don't think either metamagic feats or spell levels work that way.

Please be more verbose.

[The Grue]

Please be more verbose.

Well, a spell level greater than 9 is an Epic spell. Putting aside whether there's such a thing as a spell level greater than 10(Epic spells are said to be considered 10th level for all effects where spell level is relevant), a 349th level spell would certainly be considered an Epic spell.


Metamagic feats and other epic feats that manipulate normal spells cannot be used with epic spells.

Furthermore,


A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to a maximum of 9th level).

Is that sufficiently verbose?

[kardar233]

Well, a spell level greater than 9 is an Epic spell. Putting aside whether there's such a thing as a spell level greater than 10(Epic spells are said to be considered 10th level for all effects where spell level is relevant), a 349th level spell would certainly be considered an Epic spell.

The term "Epic Spell" specifically refers to the special spells constructed from seeds and cast from the epic spell slots bestowed by the Epic Spellcasting feat. Spells with an effective level greater than 9 are usually only accessed in Epic levels, but are not properly Epic spells.

[The Grue]

The term "Epic Spell" specifically refers to the special spells constructed from seeds and cast from the epic spell slots bestowed by the Epic Spellcasting feat. Spells with an effective level greater than 9 are usually only accessed in Epic levels, but are not properly Epic spells.

Fair enough.

My other point stands.

[cosmonuts]

Well, a spell level greater than 9 is an Epic spell. Putting aside whether there's such a thing as a spell level greater than 10(Epic spells are said to be considered 10th level for all effects where spell level is relevant), a 349th level spell would certainly be considered an Epic spell.

Incorrect. An epic spell is a different thing than a 349th level spell. And there are spell levels greater than 10, from improved spell capacity [epic].


Is that sufficiently verbose?

Yes, unfortunately I forgot this clause.

So: we'll have to find a workaround.

Make a dragonwrought kobold cleric 20 with VoP and dark chaos feat shuffle all your feats into improved spell capacity, leaving a few for extend, persist, and DMM persist. This should give access to 23rd level spells, which you can then persist with DMM persist.

Not as big as 394, but we need more feats for that.

[Crake]

I'm surprised nobody's suggested Shapechange yet

[Esgath]

Your spell selection thus far is good, if you need more buffs:
Elation (http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/elation--45/), Freedom of Movement (http://dndtools.eu/spells/players-handbook-v35--6/freedom-of-movement--2322/), Recitation (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/recitation--3861/), Crawling Darkness (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/crawling-darkness--4242/), Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/righteous-wrath-faithful--3793/), Spiritual Guardian (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-champion--57/spiritual-guardian--612/), Holy Star (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/holy-star--4709/), Stormrage (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/stormrage--4250/) to mention a few. With miracle you have access to other spell list, which greatly enhances your persistable spells.
Did you end up with the pleasure domain? One of your 7th level spells is set then :)
Is your cleric neutral or evil? If neutral, you can cast Holy Transformation (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/holy-transformation--4712/) for greater teleport at will (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#archonSubtype).
An AMF with Extraordinary Spell Aim is strong, since you make your enemy mundane in melee. You can still be targeted by spells however, since the area you are in is not subject to the AMF and an AMF doesn't block line of effect. Here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9850.msg161403#msg161403) is a little bit more about the workings of antimagic fields.

[adriana]

Your spell selection thus far is good, if you need more buffs:
Elation (http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/elation--45/), Freedom of Movement (http://dndtools.eu/spells/players-handbook-v35--6/freedom-of-movement--2322/), Recitation (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/recitation--3861/), Crawling Darkness (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/crawling-darkness--4242/), Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/righteous-wrath-faithful--3793/), Spiritual Guardian (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-champion--57/spiritual-guardian--612/), Holy Star (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/holy-star--4709/), Stormrage (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/stormrage--4250/) to mention a few. With miracle you have access to other spell list, which greatly enhances your persistable spells.
Did you end up with the pleasure domain? One of your 7th level spells is set then :)
Is your cleric neutral or evil? If neutral, you can cast Holy Transformation (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/holy-transformation--4712/) for greater teleport at will (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#archonSubtype).
An AMF with Extraordinary Spell Aim is strong, since you make your enemy mundane in melee. You can still be targeted by spells however, since the area you are in is not subject to the AMF and an AMF doesn't block line of effect. Here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9850.msg161403#msg161403) is a little bit more about the workings of antimagic fields.

She may not be but I am. I completely forgot about a LN cleric doing holy transformation. LOL I'm a necro cleric but I guess it would work? that would be awesome as holy > than infernal in my opinion.

[clericgirl]

Your spell selection thus far is good, if you need more buffs:
Elation (http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/elation--45/), Freedom of Movement (http://dndtools.eu/spells/players-handbook-v35--6/freedom-of-movement--2322/), Recitation (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/recitation--3861/), Crawling Darkness (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/crawling-darkness--4242/), Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/righteous-wrath-faithful--3793/), Spiritual Guardian (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-champion--57/spiritual-guardian--612/), Holy Star (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/holy-star--4709/), Stormrage (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/stormrage--4250/) to mention a few. With miracle you have access to other spell list, which greatly enhances your persistable spells.
Did you end up with the pleasure domain? One of your 7th level spells is set then :)
Is your cleric neutral or evil? If neutral, you can cast Holy Transformation (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/holy-transformation--4712/) for greater teleport at will (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#archonSubtype).
An AMF with Extraordinary Spell Aim is strong, since you make your enemy mundane in melee. You can still be targeted by spells however, since the area you are in is not subject to the AMF and an AMF doesn't block line of effect. Here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9850.msg161403#msg161403) is a little bit more about the workings of antimagic fields.

Yeah I'm chaotic evil. I forgot about holy star and I'll take a look at your other spells. thanks.

[Chronos]

Holy Transformation doesn't let you teleport. It gives you the archon subtype, but does not give you archon traits.

Heighten Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#heightenSpell) is capped at 9th level. To get higher, you need Improved Heighten Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedHeightenSpell), an epic feat.

A cleric with 100 nightsticks gets 7+Cha turning attempts, not 400. There's nothing that says that nightsticks stack, so they don't.

[ahenobarbi]

Red wizard can heighten spells up to level 20. Sanctum Spell + Earth Spells can push it to 22. It's possible to cast the spell as a divine spell so you can apply DMM persist to it.

[Esgath]

Holy Transformation doesn't let you teleport. It gives you the archon subtype, but does not give you archon traits.

The archon traits are defining what an archon is. If you get the subtype, you also get the traits.

[Chronos]

No, it just means that you can cast spells that require you to be an archon, and spells that affect archons affect you, and the like.

[Esgath]

If it would work like that, it must state a clause like that. When you use Holy Transformation, you are an outsider with the good and archon subtype. It is not like you are an outsider (only considered when casting and being affected by spells) with the good and archon subtype (only considered when casting and being affected by spells).

For example, Polymorph states that you get the type and subtype of the new form, but you don't gain any Ex special abilities or Su- and Sp-abilities. Here we have the general rule (you are a new type/subtype) modified by the specific clause, that you don't gain Ex/Su/Sp.

So, when you change into a plant type creature like the Treant for example, you get immune to critical hits, but low-light vision is an Ex-ability which you don't get.

Holy Transformation has no restriction whatsoever on its type/subtype change, so there simply isn't one.

[NoACWarrior]

I'm surprised nobody's suggested Shapechange yet

I'm likewise surprised nobody listed Anti Magic Field either.

[Vaz]

Incorrect. An epic spell is a different thing than a 349th level spell. And there are spell levels greater than 10, from improved spell capacity [epic].



Yes, unfortunately I forgot this clause.

So: we'll have to find a workaround.

Make a dragonwrought kobold cleric 20 with VoP apoond dark chaos feat shuffle all your feats into improved spell capacity, leaving a few for extend, persist, and DMM persist. This should give access to 23rd level spells, which you can then persist with DMM persist.

Not as big as 394, but we need more feats for that.

I raise you Pun Pun.