Least awful gestalt for Vow of Poverty?

[deuxhero]

I know the general agreement is that Druid is the least bad vow of poverty user (well short of non-PC allies who would normally take from the PC's wealth, but...) but what's the "best" in gestalt? Is it Druid//something? I'm thinking Druid//some incarnum class due to the bind/magic item slot conflict thing, but I'm not sure.

[Flickerdart]

Either an Incarnum class or Binder would do pretty well as the other half. Psions also make tolerable Vow of Poverty characters.

[eggynack]

Druid//incarnate or totemist does sound sweet with VoP. You get double incentives not to use items, along with the whole active/passive thing. I prefer druids to psions for VoP use, incidentally. Druids just get the best exalted feats.

[Alex12]

Druid/Psion would probably be best. Heck, you don't even have to take Natural Spell! After all, psionic powers don't care about somatic, verbal, or material components, and when you run out of PP for being a laser-spewing telepathic bear, you return to your base form and pound them with Druidic magic.

[Rubik]

Druid 20 // psion 5/ghostbreaker 5/illithid slayer 10 would be a great combo, and the anti-undead/anti-aberration mechanics go well with the druid's love of nature. Since both druid and psion are SAD classes (only needing Wis and Int, respectively), it doesn't put a strain on your need for ability scores. Druids can use more exalted feats than just about anyone, leaving most of the feats for the psion side's use (which they need, because it's a very feat-intensive class). Wild shape takes care of movement modes, summonses, battlefield control, and physical ability scores. Psion can take care of self-buffs, direct offense, utility, and other things.

Druid 20 // monk 2 (or more, with lots of ACFs)/totemist 2/incarnate W/ToB classes X, Y, and Z can be a scary martial combo, VoP or not.

[eggynack]

Druid/Psion would probably be best. Heck, you don't even have to take Natural Spell! After all, psionic powers don't care about somatic, verbal, or material components, and when you run out of PP for being a laser-spewing telepathic bear, you return to your base form and pound them with Druidic magic.
That doesn't sound like the best plan. There's not much ability score synergy, and both sides are very much active.

[Flickerdart]

Action economy tends not to be a very big deal for psions, starting with as-intended powers like Schism and Fission and moving into nastier cheese like Linked Synchronicity.

[Rubik]

That doesn't sound like the best plan. There's not much ability score synergy, and both sides are very much active.As I mentioned, they only need one ability score each, and druid takes care of all the physical stats.

Compare that to a fighter, who needs high scores in Str, Dex, Con, and could really use Int (13+), Wis (Will save), and Cha (Intimidate use).

And psionics is great for buffing before and during combat (use swift actions with Linked Power, and you can MurderFightKill in melee) and outside of combat, as well. Psionics is DEFINITELY killer when it comes to improved action economy. Remember, kids. Nobody gets more actions than a psion. (Except planar shepherds, but that's a given.)

[Grod_The_Giant]

Druid//Psion may be the strongest, especially at higher levels, if only because magic beats everything in 3.5. But in an actual game, I might go for something like Monk 1/11, then fill up the rest with Warshaper and Master of Many Forms in some arrangement. Wis to AC is great as a shapeshifted VoP character, and then you can pick up both meldshaper and wildshape goodies.

You might also consider Druid//PsiWar-- better Wis synergy, and the PsyWar powers would be great for augmenting your animalistic beatsticking, letting you save Druid spells for debuffs and utility.

[Emperor Tippy]

Factotum//Psion with a couple small dips on the Factotum side.

[eggynack]

As I mentioned, they only need one ability score each, and druid takes care of all the physical stats.

Compare that to a fighter, who needs high scores in Str, Dex, Con, and could really use Int (13+), Wis (Will save), and Cha (Intimidate use).
Well, you do still need constitution, and charisma is nice because it lets you pick up words of creation, along with some degree of diplomancy/wild empathy. It's not quite MAD territory, but it kinda gets you out of the druid's, or even totemist//druid's, ultra-SAD nature.



And psionics is great for buffing before and during combat (use swift actions with Linked Power, and you can MurderFightKill in melee) and outside of combat, as well. Psionics is DEFINITELY killer when it comes to improved action economy. Remember, kids. Nobody gets more actions than a psion. (Except planar shepherds, but that's a given.)

True enough, I suppose, especially if you're also running aberration wild shape (though I suppose that could pull away from the psion's feat love advantage you cited).

[Malroth]

VOP factotum? How does that work?

[eggynack]

VOP factotum? How does that work?
How doesn't that work?

[atemu1234]

I'm a stickler for the classics. Psion-Druid would have to be a favorite. If only there was a wisdom-based psionic caster...

[Emperor Tippy]

VOP factotum? How does that work?

Factotums don't really need items. Especially not in gestalt when they are being used as the more passive half.

Frankly even in a non gestalt game, Factotum can VoP pretty well. Their native casting ability without the need for spell components lets them make up for a lot that items would cover on something like a Monk, their AC bonus is good (especially with a Monk dip plus Kung Fu Genius for double Int to AC), they can push out the damage, etc.

All in all, Factotum 1/ Decisive Strike Martial Monk 1/ Factotum 18 with Vow of Poverty can do the classic movie style kung fu ascetic monk type character better than most anything else.

Especially if it's a Grey Elf with FMI to solve the HP issues, and especially especially if you can get someone to Chaos Shuffle you or the DM to allow Font of Inspiration to be gained as a VoP bonus feat.

Throw in the Ritual of Shadow Walking and Balance on the Sky (if you can figure out a way to get an 8th level Shadowhand Stance) along with Bind Vestige, Improved and Naberius to heal the con damage and you have a surprisingly fun and powerful character.

Now dump a full Psion onto all of that.

[Rubik]

VoP factotums also can't use tools, touch traps, open doors (or locks), walk on carpeting, etc, which rids them of a lot of functionality.

[Emperor Tippy]

VoP factotums also can't use tools, touch traps, open doors (or locks), walk on carpeting, etc, which rids them of a lot of functionality.

That's why you ignore the truly stupid parts of VoP (like no touching door handles or walking on carpets).

Although even then, Factotums do have native access to Mage Hand and flight so they are better served than most other classes under the strictest reading of VoP.

[Grod_The_Giant]

VoP factotums also can't use tools, touch traps, open doors (or locks), walk on carpeting, etc, which rids them of a lot of functionality.
What the ****? Where does the feat even hint at that?

@atemu1234-- Psychic Warrior, Ardent, Psionic Fist, War Mind, and possibly a few more PrCs from CPsi that I don't know. Oh, and Divine Mind, but that's not something you ever want to consider.

[Baroknik]

I'm a stickler for the classics. Psion-Druid would have to be a favorite. If only there was a wisdom-based psionic caster...

Unsure if sarcastic or needs to see the Ardent and be happy...

[Rubik]

What the ****? Where does the feat even hint at that?According to Vow of Poverty:


To fulfill your vow, you must not own or use any material possessions, with the following exceptionsThose items are not on the list.

[Lanaya]

What the ****? Where does the feat even hint at that?

You can't use any material possessions. A door is material, and is owned by someone, therefore it is a material possession and someone with VoP can't use it by any means. I don't think anyone actually plays it that way, but it is RAW.

[Rubik]

You can't use any material possessions. A door is material, and is owned by someone, therefore it is a material possession and someone with VoP can't use it by any means. I don't think anyone actually plays it that way, but it is RAW.Technically, you can't even look at a statue or a painting without losing your vow.

[eggynack]

Technically, you can't even look at a statue or a painting without losing your vow.
You probably can't look at any material object by that justification. What is art, after all? Is a chair not art, or a house, or the sword your party fighter swings around? Do you not derive utility just by looking upon these creations? It might be necessary to pick up some long term blindsight, I think.

[Baroknik]

Not true, there is specific allowance for others to let you use their possession (or at least to use one on you). Therefore you should be able to USE someone else's door, just not possess one yourself.

[Rubik]

You probably can't look at any material object by that justification. What is art, after all? Is a chair not art, or a house, or the sword your party fighter swings around? Do you not derive utility just by looking upon these creations? It might be necessary to pick up some long term blindsight, I think.My psions always take Touchsight as a power known. Of course, they also don't take VoP, so...


Not true, there is specific allowance for others to let you use their possession (or at least to use one on you). Therefore you should be able to USE someone else's door, just not possess one yourself.Others can use items on your behalf, which means you can look at a painting using their eyes, and you can unlock and open a door using their hands.

Otherwise, no.

[eggynack]

Not true, there is specific allowance for others to let you use their possession (or at least to use one on you). Therefore you should be able to USE someone else's door, just not possess one yourself.
Sure. Now you just need to ask permission of the owner every time you open a door, or walk on a carpet, or view a house. That won't get annoying at all.


My psions always take Touchsight as a power known. Of course, they also don't take VoP, so...

That would also work, though you'd probably need to up the duration in some manner, lest you end up wandering blind during long city excursions.

[ryu]

Not true, there is specific allowance for others to let you use their possession (or at least to use one on you). Therefore you should be able to USE someone else's door, just not possess one yourself.

Bolded for emphasis.

Just remember that what you SHOULD be able to do, and what you CAN do are very different things. Not to mention both of those are different from what the designers intended you to be able to do.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'm partial to Soulbow on a VoP character, though it only takes three levels worth of dips to spam mind arrows. So probably Factotum 3/ Soulknife 2/ Soulbow 1/ Factotum+dips 14// Psion+PrCs 20

[Flickerdart]

Unsure if sarcastic or needs to see the Ardent and be happy...
Psychic Warrior might actually work out better for Druids - their power repertoire might be smaller, but it's oriented towards the claw/claw/bite situation someone in Wildshape will find themselves in pretty frequently.

[Coidzor]

Assuming Theurg-ish PrCs for things that aren't casting/casting or casting/manifesting, then something like Totemist 2, 4, or 6/Psychic Warrior 4(or Ardent)/Soul Manifester 10/Slayer(?) X//Druid 10/Planar Shepherd 10 seems like it would touch your bases.

Otherwise... Totemist 2/Factotum 8/War Mind 10//Druid 10/Planar Shepherd 10?

[Kuulvheysoon]

You can't use any material possessions. A door is material, and is owned by someone, therefore it is a material possession and someone with VoP can't use it by any means. I don't think anyone actually plays it that way, but it is RAW.

Wait, your adventurers actually open doors? Mine tend to literally kick doors down.

[Rubik]

That would also work, though you'd probably need to up the duration in some manner, lest you end up wandering blind during long city excursions.I'd suggest the 3.5 crystal master PrC, but you can't exactly take it with VoP due to the requisite expensive crystals to be implanted.

Perhaps take VoP after you've finished out the PrC?

[eggynack]

I'd suggest the 3.5 crystal master PrC, but you can't exactly take it with VoP due to the requisite expensive crystals to be implanted.

Perhaps take VoP after you've finished out the PrC?
That does seem nifty, though the range isn't the best if you're going blind otherwise. My first thought was doing it druid-style, starting off at level seven with desmodu hunting bat blindsense, which probably isn't enough to make this workable, and then transitioning into aberration wild shape fueled dolgaunt form (ECS, 281) at level nine, for 360 foot blindsight, which probably is enough to make this workable. There's also grell form (LoM, 107), which knocks it down to 60 foot blindsight, but adds on immunity to all illusions, and a significantly better chassis.

[Rubik]

That does seem nifty, though the range isn't the best if you're going blind otherwise. My first thought was doing it druid-style, starting off at level seven with desmodu hunting bat blindsense, which probably isn't enough to make this workable, and then transitioning into aberration wild shape fueled dolgaunt form (ECS, 281) at level nine, for 360 foot blindsight, which probably is enough to make this workable. There's also grell form (LoM, 107), which knocks it down to 60 foot blindsight, but adds on immunity to all illusions, and a significantly better chassis.Something tells me that having a druid focusing on aberrations is a bit less than logically sound, given that aberrations are, by definition, completely unnatural.

[ryu]

Something tells me that having a druid focusing on aberrations is a bit less than logically sound, given that aberrations are, by definition, completely unnatural.

Why? For the most part aberrations don't seem to do anything all that unnatural. Is it the fact that some of them are parasites? Nature has those. The tentacles? Oh we have plenty of those in nature. Oh maybe it's the differing number and shape of eyes? Examples of that are literally all over the place in nature. I think the only reason they're named aberration is that they look weird to us.

[Rubik]

Why? For the most part aberrations don't seem to do anything all that unnatural. Is it the fact that some of them are parasites? Nature has those. The tentacles? Oh we have plenty of those in nature. Oh maybe it's the differing number and shape of eyes? Examples of that are literally all over the place in nature. I think the only reason they're named aberration is that they look weird to us.All of the ones I know of aren't created in a "natural" manner. Elans, for instance, are made by converting a human into one. Mind flayers are made by hollowing out the skull of a humanoid creature and inserting a larva which takes its body for its own.

The other aberrations are similar.

[eggynack]

Something tells me that having a druid focusing on aberrations is a bit less than logically sound, given that aberrations are, by definition, completely unnatural.
Eh, it seems fine to me, especially as it's a thing that obviously has book support. It helps some that aberration wild shape is ridiculously powerful. It's a feat that fits in especially well with the often odd necromancer druid, just for flavor reasons, because the necro-half take up completely different character design space from the aberration half. You likely have to tend towards good for the whole thing to work anyway, because animate with the spirit is one of the more interesting thing a druid can do with a dead body.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Why? For the most part aberrations don't seem to do anything all that unnatural. Is it the fact that some of them are parasites? Nature has those. The tentacles? Oh we have plenty of those in nature. Oh maybe it's the differing number and shape of eyes? Examples of that are literally all over the place in nature. I think the only reason they're named aberration is that they look weird to us.

As a rule Aberrations aren't part of nature.

Illithids are from the distant future where most world's suns were in their last phases and performed beyond epic rituals to come to our world. Their plots involve manpulating the environment of the world to be more conductive to them in the short term and manipulating the universe in the long term to ensure their species evolves.

Grell and several others are from the far realm.

[ryu]

All of the ones I know of aren't created in a "natural" manner. Elans, for instance, are made by converting a human into one. Mind flayers are made by hollowing out the skull of a humanoid creature and inserting a larva which takes its body for its own.

The other aberrations are similar.

So... Parasites? Do I need to show you scientific journals on parasites that mind-control ants into climbing the grass and clipping onto it to bait birds into eating them? All so that they can reproduce as normal.

[Rubik]

So... Parasites? Do I need to show you scientific journals on parasites that mind-control ants into climbing the grass and clipping onto it to bait birds into eating them. All so that they can reproduce as normal.Are parasitic animals created in magical rituals? Do they come from Outer Space, or from the Far Realm, or from the future?

[ryu]

Are parasitic animals created in magical rituals? Do they come from Outer Space, or from the Far Realm, or from the future?

And yet you can also transform into creatures not even native to our plane with no issue and no one bats an eye. Is there something specifically more natural about present day earth over any other plane, planet, time period, or honestly just about any other reference point? They all have an ecosystem, are bound by their own physical laws, and can support countless forms of life after all.

[Rubik]

And yet you can also transform into creatures not even native to our plane with no issue and no one bats an eye. Is there something specifically more natural about present day earth over any other plane, planet, time period, or honestly just about any other reference point?Yes. Hence aberrations not being natural.

[ryu]

Yes. Hence aberrations not being natural.

And that would be? That argument implied requested specifics. What on earth do we have that isn't just a bias of being born here?

[Rubik]

And that would be? That argument implied requested specifics. What on earth do we have that isn't just a bias of being born here?Well, everything on Earth IS an animal or a non-animate plant, because we don't have anything that isn't from Earth. And humans, of course, which are humanoids.

[ryu]

Well, everything on Earth IS an animal or a non-animate plant, because we don't have anything that isn't from Earth. And humans, of course, which are humanoids.

And? Rocks are also natural. So are crystal formations. For pity's sake space as a whole boasts significantly less tampering by intelligent species on average cubic mile by cubic mile. All flora and fauna on the far realm are also perfectly natural as they require no tampering to come about.

Further not all plants and animals are wholly natural. The common dessert banana you know of physically never could have existed and would soon stop existing without direct human interference.

[Coidzor]

And? Rocks are also natural. So are crystal formations. For pity's sake space as a whole boasts significantly less tampering by intelligent species on average cubic mile by cubic mile. All flora and fauna on the far realm are also perfectly natural as they require no tampering to come about.

Further not all plants and animals are wholly natural. The common dessert banana you know of physically never could have existed and would soon stop existing without direct human interference.

Well, pseudonatural (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/pseudonaturalCreature.htm). :smallwink: Can't be natural if they're not part of the universe and their very (impossible) presence in existence is basically a cosmic crime/incarnate wrongness.

There are some aberrations which are the result of tampering(Silthilar, IIRC) and then there are some which are just aliens, more or less, some coming from other planets/deep space, some from alternate prime material planes, and some from other crystal spheres, depending.

Metamorphic rocks may or may not be as natural as sedimentary and igneous rocks, but we treat them the same to not hurt their feelings.


Something tells me that having a druid focusing on aberrations is a bit less than logically sound, given that aberrations are, by definition, completely unnatural.

*shrug* There's an [Aberrant] Feat for That. Lords of Madness may have some thoughts attempting to justify it. I mean, sure, you could argue that it's just sophistry on the part of an Aberration-blooded humanoid Druid in order to rationalize their self-contradiction, but, eh, it works and increases their power to some extent. XD

[ryu]

And if there are multiple universes? We have no way of knowing one way or the other on that issue, but the track record on assuming only one of something exists has just worked so well before.

[eggynack]

Aberration practically means something unnatural by definition. One could argue that anything that exists must be natural, just by merit of its existence, but that just seems like semantics. I mean, the fact that druids are nature based has to mean something, and if "nature" just means "anything that exists", then the fact that druids take their current form is somewhat arbitrary*.

Still, I don't see why I should care too much. Feats let you do things that you wouldn't normally be able to do, and sometimes those things might be outside the flavor of the original class. Is arcane disciple a feat that doesn't fit a wizard, because wizards are supposed to be arcane? It's an argument that doesn't make much sense to me. Sure, you can take only things that perfectly fit what you perceive to be druid flavor, but that just feels so limiting. We argue so often that class is just a metagame construct. Why not do so now?

*Although, come to think of it, that definition does fit druids pretty well, given their propensity to take on multiple roles at the same time, often better than their focused counterparts, and do most of the things that exist to be done in the game.

[Coidzor]

And if there are multiple universes? We have no way of knowing one way or the other on that issue, but the track record on assuming only one of something exists has just worked so well before.

Well, there was one before the Great Wheel. The leShay could tell you how well that worked out, but they likely won't. Most "multiverse theory" places would be more along the lines of Alternate Primes or travel through the Plane of Shadow. Or, Chronomancers preserve us, involve one of the Planes of Time.

Things from Alternate Primes have the same type they would if they originated on the non-alternate Prime in question, except for cases where the point of having the Aberration type is that they originated on this Alternate Prime. A person from Oerth doesn't become an Aberration when they travel to Earth(well, as far as the Type goes anyway), nor does someone from Dragonlance change Type(aside from gaining the Extraplanar subtype) when they go to visit Waterdeep.

IIRC, canonically most alternate universes are already accounted for by the Great Wheel/Plane of Shadow+Spelljammer setup. And the ones that don't are completely in the realm of homebrew, so who knows. :smalltongue:

[cheetah]

this is some deep **** for 2:17 in the morning central standard time...:smallconfused::smallconfused:

[ryu]

this is some deep **** for 2:17 in the morning central standard time...:smallconfused::smallconfused:

Yeah well I work in forty-eight hour cycles anyway. The sixteen hour shifts of uninterrupted sleep are the Best Thing.

[cheetah]

Yeah well I work in forty-eight hour cycles anyway. The sixteen hour shifts of uninterrupted sleep are the Best Thing.

:smallbiggrin:

the last time I wanted to do something that was after a 36 hour grueling trek while I was volunteering in Africa to work with cheetahs and leopards.

[ryu]

:smallbiggrin:

the last time I wanted to do something that was after a 36 hour grueling trek while I was volunteering in Africa to work with cheetahs and leopards.

And as likely the only other person in this thread with experience you know. Best Thing.

[cheetah]

And as likely the only other person in this thread with experience you know. Best Thing.

Absolutely mate on both accounts. Working with the cats, and the sleep after :smallbiggrin:

Good times. Best times.

[Necroticplague]

Druid/planar shepherd(plane of shadow)//Invisible Fist monk/totemist.

Only real stat you need is Widsom, so lack of stat-boosting items isn't too bad. Give yourself Wishes to make up for lack of spellcasting services and tomes/manuals. Invisible fist give you short-term invisible (though turning into a shadow creature and staying out of the light is just as good), wisdom to AC, and some useful feats for while your wildshaped, and totemist is veritable grab bag of abilities, including substitutes for masterwork tools.

[chaos_redefined]

I'd probably go Wildshape Ranger 5/Master of Many Forms 10/Warshaper 5 // Psion 10/Anarchic Initiate 10, if it were me. Solves the dual-stat dependency.

[aleucard]

Factotums don't really need items. Especially not in gestalt when they are being used as the more passive half.

Frankly even in a non gestalt game, Factotum can VoP pretty well. Their native casting ability without the need for spell components lets them make up for a lot that items would cover on something like a Monk, their AC bonus is good (especially with a Monk dip plus Kung Fu Genius for double Int to AC), they can push out the damage, etc.

All in all, Factotum 1/ Decisive Strike Martial Monk 1/ Factotum 18 with Vow of Poverty can do the classic movie style kung fu ascetic monk type character better than most anything else.

Especially if it's a Grey Elf with FMI to solve the HP issues, and especially especially if you can get someone to Chaos Shuffle you or the DM to allow Font of Inspiration to be gained as a VoP bonus feat.

Throw in the Ritual of Shadow Walking and Balance on the Sky (if you can figure out a way to get an 8th level Shadowhand Stance) along with Bind Vestige, Improved and Naberius to heal the con damage and you have a surprisingly fun and powerful character.

Now dump a full Psion onto all of that.

I have a contention with something. I bolded it in your quote.

Factotum has this as part of it's method of casting Arcane; You cannot use spells that require an XP cost. You must otherwise provide the necessary material components as normal. That second sentence is the relevant one for this. Unless if I'm missing something, since specific trumps general in the rules, the caveat in the quote trumps the normal SLA ignorance of material components. Am I?

[Chronos]

Personally, I'd go straight druid on one side, with some mixture of totemist, Master of Many Forms, and maybe Warshaper on the other. I'd like to include some Monk, too, but unfortunately druid, monk, and Vow of Poverty is an impossible combination, alignment-wise. Maybe Ninja instead? Or Unarmed Swordsage, assuming that the AC bonus is houseruled to work unarmored?

[Psyren]

That doesn't sound like the best plan. There's not much ability score synergy, and both sides are very much active.

Actually Psions can be both active and passive thanks to all their action economy manipulation. The psion can generate more actions for the spellcasting side to use - Synchronicity, Schism, Temporal Acceleration, Anticipatory Strike, Linked Power etc. etc.

I wouldn't necessarily combine them with druid though - Ardent (DI+MS) or Psywar would work better there.

[Rubik]

I'd like to include some Monk, too, but unfortunately druid, monk, and Vow of Poverty is an impossible combination, alignment-wise.Ask your DM for a houserule. Monks should be able to be Neutral, rather than Lawful, given they have Balance as a class skill. :smallamused:

[3drinks]

Monk/Druid would seem the best to me as Druid is Druid (lol) and Monk just is there for supportive stuff to include three good saves.

[atemu1234]

And? Rocks are also natural. So are crystal formations. For pity's sake space as a whole boasts significantly less tampering by intelligent species on average cubic mile by cubic mile. All flora and fauna on the far realm are also perfectly natural as they require no tampering to come about.

Further not all plants and animals are wholly natural. The common dessert banana you know of physically never could have existed and would soon stop existing without direct human interference.

You're missing the point. They may be weird, but they're all "here", as it were. Aberrations are mockeries of nature, beings that exist outside of the natural order and cannot become part of the natural order. Even something like a dessert banana originally "came" from our world. Aberrations are from the "other". They don't belong here and don't really belong anywhere else.

[Psyren]

Something tells me that having a druid focusing on aberrations is a bit less than logically sound, given that aberrations are, by definition, completely unnatural.

Actually, I'd say it's unnatural for all druids to ignore them, just as it would be for all druids to ignore necromancy. Some would naturally gravitate towards such esoteric fields of study.

[atemu1234]

Actually, I'd say it's unnatural for all druids to ignore them, just as it would be for all druids to ignore necromancy. Some would naturally gravitate towards such esoteric fields of study.

Well, they worship nature. Necromancy mocks the natural order of life and death, so it makes a mild amount of sense.

[Psyren]

Well, they worship nature. Necromancy mocks the natural order of life and death, so it makes a mild amount of sense.

Sure, but there are also plenty of necromancy spells on the Druid list. And presumably a Druid who noticed nature being out of balance due to the overproliferation of some form of life would be obliged to kill a bunch of them for instance. in order to protect the ecosystem as a whole.

[Necroticplague]

You're missing the point. They may be weird, but they're all "here", as it were. Aberrations are mockeries of nature, beings that exist outside of the natural order and cannot become part of the natural order. Even something like a dessert banana originally "came" from our world. Aberrations are from the "other". They don't belong here and don't really belong anywhere else.

Where's it say that? All I see relevent under "aberration type" is "An aberration has a bizarre anatomy, strange abilities, an alien mindset, or any combination of the three.". No requirements of being some otherworldy, odd non-entity. Heck, to use an analogy, Elans are made from humans, so why are they aberrations? Using only what's there, the answer is easy: their ability to sustain themselves on sheer psionic power counts as strange, and their anatomy isn't what it used to be. Not to mention within the dnd ecology, many aberrations actually do have a natural place in the world; utyoghs are large, rather dim scavengers (not dissimilar in function to komodo dragons), rust monsters can form the bottom of a food chain (as the lack of sunlight in the underdark means the bottom of the energy pyramid has to be chemosynthetic. Like, say, some animal that eats rocks, or metal...), darktentacles are the (semi)logical extreme of aquatic ambush predators.

[ryu]

Where's it say that? All I see relevent under "aberration type" is "An aberration has a bizarre anatomy, strange abilities, an alien mindset, or any combination of the three.". No requirements of being some otherworldy, odd non-entity. Heck, to use an analogy, Elans are made from humans, so why are they aberrations? Using only what's there, the answer is easy: their ability to sustain themselves on sheer psionic power counts as strange, and their anatomy isn't what it used to be. Not to mention within the dnd ecology, many aberrations actually do have a natural place in the world; utyoghs are large, rather dim scavengers (not dissimilar in function to komodo dragons), rust monsters can form the bottom of a food chain (as the lack of sunlight in the underdark means the bottom of the energy pyramid has to be chemosynthetic. Like, say, some animal that eats rocks, or metal...), darktentacles are the (semi)logical extreme of aquatic ambush predators.

A perfect example of everything I was talking about.