alignment question and it's interaction with spells

[adriana]

OK so here is a really dumb question.


I'm a lawful neutral cleric, since I raise the undead I seem to always forget about the "other" not so evil side of my alignment.

This post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17568173&postcount=15)
talked about taking holy transformation to get greater teleport at will. I assumed since a good majority of the spells I cast were of the "evil" description I would always take spells like infernal transformation over holy. Sooo.... My question is with the LN alignment how far can I push the opposing alignments?

For example could I persist holy transformation to get the bonuses and still desecrate the area in order to animate some undead? Where do the boundaries lie? Can I take both BOED and BOVD spells since I'm neither good nor evil? I never really thought about being LN in that way.

[adriana]

Seems RAW legal. As a GM, I'd feel a bit weird about it though.

Well that was my issue as well. The weirdness of it. Even though my character doesn't believe that raising the dead is inherently evil, she is just fascinated with the afterlife. But I guess I never considered having holy wings with two adult zombie dragons and a shadow following me. You know? Holy transformation just seems a bit better than infernal transformation.

[hamishspence]

It should be noted that flavor text has a tendency to support excessive [evil] spells being prone to change one's alignment, but not "excessive" use of [good] spells.

Still - it's up to the player. There's even Neutral outsiders who wield both [good] and [evil] magic - the Concordant Killers, from one of the later MMs.

[squarecircle]

You could take spells from BoVD and BoED as long as they had no [Exalted] or [Vile] tags.

So you want to cast the spell that makes an enemy hurt a little? Go ahead, you're LN! As long as you see it as efficient or just, you're fine. You won't be making any other people give birth to demons though.

[adriana]

It should be noted that flavor text has a tendency to support excessive [evil] spells being prone to change one's alignment, but not "excessive" use of [good] spells.

Still - it's up to the player. There's even Neutral outsiders who wield both [good] and [evil] magic - the Concordant Killers, from one of the later MMs.


I've not taken anything from BOVD. The only really evil spells I've got are animate dead, desecrate(for the undead obviously) command undead from the necromancer domain and I thought about taking the mother cyst line(that's a little more evil though). I mean I'm not eating babies or blowing up orphans or things like that. I'm pretty well smack in the middle of the road.

[adriana]

You could take spells from BoVD and BoED as long as they had no [Exalted] or [Vile] tags.

So you want to cast the spell that makes an enemy hurt a little? Go ahead, you're LN! As long as you see it as efficient or just, you're fine. You won't be making any other people give birth to demons though.

Yeah I hadn't planned on taking exalted or sanctified spells, nor vile.

I was more curious about say lesser holy or holy transformation along with something like consumption field or desecration. that also has me thinking could I persist both holy and infernal? O-bviously the bonus to ability stats wouldn't stack but would you get the poison attack as well as the abilities from the hound archon? Sort of a half angel/half demon thing?

[With a box]

I actually think that the problem is another part: Will your god grant to prepare them?
I don't think a good god give evil spells to you, or evil god won't grant it if you request 'protection from evil' from him

[adriana]

Does your GM have a stance on whether mindless undead are just automatons with no moral consequence or are actually inherently evil?

I note that the transformation spell actually makes you a good outsider - you literally become made of the essence of Goodness. That really ought to have an effect on alignment, at least temporarily. Since you effectively become good, you can't cast or maintain evil spells. But if your GM maintains that skeletons and zombies are not evil, then it's doable.


That was my main question that I should have actually came out and said. since the spell says evil that's what I was curious about. In this world undead aren't inherently evil. They are just mindless undead.

[adriana]

I actually think that the problem is another part: Will your god grant to prepare them?
I don't think a good god give evil spells to you, or evil god won't grant it if you request 'protection from evil' from him

Technically I serve an ideal and not a specific deity as there are non in this world, however; if there were this would def be the question to ask.

[shadowseve]

I would say that while you are transformed, you are Good (in game terms at least), and can neither cast nor maintain Evil spells. Maintaining control of mindless undead is apparently not evil in this setting, so would be allowable.

I would agree with this. Though for simplicities sake it's prob better to go with infernal. If you go this route you would probably not be allowed to cast consumption field nor the ability to desecrate the ground while in holy transformation.

[Chronos]

Holy Transformation doesn't let you teleport. It gives you the archon subtype, but it does not give you archon traits.

[Esgath]

It sure gives you the archon traits. That's what they are for. They are part of the definition of being an archon.