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Szatany
2007-02-19, 05:36 PM
This is a class for everyone that believes that fighter class plainly sucks.

Fighter
http://landfantasy3.free.fr/Firchow/Ravens.jpg
Picture by Steve Firchow

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Fighters have the following game statistics.

Abilities: Same as in Player's Handbook.

Alignment: Any.

Hit Points per Level: 1d10 + Con modifier.
Hit points are maximized at 1st character level.

Skill Points per Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Skill points are multiplied by 4 at 1st character level.

Class Skills: The fighter’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Perform (weapon drill) (Cha); Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex).

Base Fort Ref Will
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special .
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Bonus feat
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Art of battle, veteran
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Bonus feat
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Art of battle
5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Bonus feat, shift tactics
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Art of battle
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Bonus feat
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Art of battle
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 Bonus feat
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Art of battle
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 Bonus feat
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Warcraft
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 Bonus feat
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Warcraft
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Bonus feat
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Warcraft
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 Bonus feat
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Warcraft
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 Bonus feat
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Warcraft
CLASS FEATURES
All of the following are class features of the fighter.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields). Same as in Player's Handbook.

Bonus Feats: At 1st level, and every 2 levels thereafter (3rd, 5th, 7th, and so on) a fighter gets a bonus feat. A fighter can only take a feat, if in this feat’s description it says that it’s a bonus fighter feat.

Art of Battle: At 2nd level, and every 2 levels thereafter up to level 10, a fighter learns combat trick that can only be performed by experienced warriors. Every art of battle expands possible uses of veteran ability (see below).
Astonishing Maneuver (Ex): By spending one use of veteran ability as a swift action, a fighter can use any exotic weapon as if it was a different exotic weapon he is proficient with, for one round.
Bodyguard (Ex): By spending one use of veteran ability as a swift action, if you are within 5 ft. of any ally who takes damage from an attack, you can take all the damage and all associated effects instead.
Cavalier (Ex): By spending one use of veteran ability as a swift action, when the fighter or his mount takes any damage while he is its rider, the fighter can redirect any number of that damage to the other one.
Comforting Cuirass (Ex): When fighter is throwing a Will save, he can spend one use of veteran ability to gain bonus on that save equal to half his armor's bonus to AC (including enhancement bonus, if any).
Death Blow (Ex): If a fighter scores a critical threat on an attack roll, he can spend one use of veteran ability as a swift action. If he does, the attack is autmatically a critical hit.
Fencer (Ex): By spending one use of veteran ability as a swift action, a fighter can use Perform (weapon drill) skill instead of Bluff (to mislead an opponent in melee combat), instead of Sleigh of Hand (to draw a hidden weapon), or instead of Intimidate (to demoralize opponent).
Foil Enemy (Ex): By spending one use of veteran ability, a fighter can interrupt enemy's action. To foil, he must hit with a melee touch attack or ranged touch attack within first range increment. Using foil is an immediate action. A Fighter may not wait until an action is partially completed before deciding to attempt to foil it, but must instead make an attempt as it is declared.
Note that this means that a Fighter may not foil a Full Attack (because it is not declared until after it has already begun), nor may he foil a move or charge action that began out of range.
Foiled action is wasted, and any spell slots, limited ability uses, or the like used to power it are expended. (Original idea by K (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9776630&postcount=4))
Instinctive Maneuver (Ex): By spending one use of veteran ability as a swift action, a fighter can gain benefits of a fighter feat he doesn't know for one round. The fighter must meets feat's prerequisites.
Marksman (Ex): By spending one use of veteran ability as a swift action, a fighter can use his Dexterity modifier instead of Strength modifier on damage rolls with ranged weapons for one round.
Nullify Advantage (Ex): By spending one use of veteran ability as a swift or immediate action, you make an opponent within your reach ignore all circumstance bonuses and bonuses granted by feats to AC, attacks, and damage rolls until the beginning of your next turn.
Shield Guardian (Ex): By spending one use of veteran ability as a swift action, if you are within 5 ft. of any ally, you grant him shield bonus to AC equal to one you possess, until the beginning of your next turn. This bonus stacks with any shield bonus the ally might have.
Soldier of Fortune (Ex): While in combat and within 10 ft. from any enemy, a fighter can spend one use of veteran ability to re-roll a failed saving throw made to resist an effect or ability of any foe.
Supreme Positioning (Ex): By spending one use of veteran ability as a free action, a fighter can ignore all penalties caused by armor (arcane spell failure, armor check penalty, speed reduction, etc.) for 1 round.
Swift Strike (Ex): By spending one use of veteran ability as a swift action, a fighter can take an attack action as a move action instead of standard action.
Tactician (Ex): By spending one use of veteran ability as a immediate action, a fighter can grant one extra attack of opportunity to an ally within 30 feet or move a willing ally by 5 ft in any direction. If he moves one ally, that movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. For this ability to work, a fighter must be able to speak and an ally must be able to understand him.
Veteran (Ex): A 2nd level fighter can re-roll a failed attack roll as a swift action. He can use this ability a number of times per day equal to half his fighter level + his Intelligence modifier.

Shift Tactics (Ex): Beginning at 5th level, as his combat skill grows, a fighter can adapt his tactical abilities to the changing challenges he encounters. Whenever he gains a fighter level (including level 5), he can exchange any [fighter] feat he has with another such feat. He must meet all prerequisites of the new feat. He cannot lose a feat that is the prerequisite for any other feats or abilities he has.

Warcraft: At 12th level, and every 2 levels thereafter (14th, 16th, 18th, and 20th), a fighter gains a special ability of his choice from among the following options. He can opt to take a bonus fighter feat or art of battle ability instead.
Adapt to Opponent (Ex): A fighter knows how to adapt to opponent’s combat techniques and thus gain advantage over the course of battle. For each two rounds a fighter is engaged in combat with an opponent, or observes that opponent fighting, he gains cumulative +1 circumstance bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and AC against that opponent until the end of encounter. This bonus cannot exceed +1 per 5 fighter levels.
Armored Mobility (Ex): A fighter treats heavy armor he wears as medium and medium armor as light for purposes of determining his speed and running capabilities. This does not stack with abilities of mithral armor or any other similar effects.
Articulation (Ex): A fighter ignores 2 points of armor check penalty and increases maximum Dex bonus of any armor he wears by +2. This ability does not stack with bonuses granted by mithral armor.
Battlefield Superiority (Ex): A fighter suffers a cumulative -3 penalty on all iterative attacks, instead of the usual -5. For example, a character with BAB +19 and this ability performs full attack with +19/+16/+13/+10 bonuses, not +19/+14/+9/+4.
Counter-Tactics: Archers (Ex): A fighter knows how to defend himself from projectiles and thrown weapons. He gains a +3 dodge bonus to AC against all ranged attacks.
Counter-Tactics: Brutes (Ex): A fighter knows how to fight melee opponents who rely on brute force. He gains +5 bonus against attempts to bull-rush, trip, or overrun him.
Counter-Tactics: Flyers (Ex): A fighter knows how to fight flying creatures. He gains a +5 dodge bonus to AC against flying opponents, and +3 dodge bonus to AC against opponents attacking from higher ground or horseback.
Counter-Tactics: Fencers (Ex): A fighter knows how to fight melee opponents who use various skillful tactics. He gains +5 bonus against attempts to disarm, feint, or sunder him or items in his possession.
Counter-Tactics: Giants (Ex): A fighter underwent similar training to the dwarven anti-giant training. He gains +2 dodge bonus to AC against opponents who are one size category larger than the fighter. This bonus increases by +2 for each difference in size category. For example, a large fighter gains +6 dodge bonus to AC against all colossal creatures. Despite being of different types, this AC bonus does not stack with dwarven bonus against giants.
Counter-Tactics: Leaders (Ex): A fighter knows how to fight opponents who command their troops. As a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, a fighter makes Intimidate check to demoralize opponents (see Intimidate skill, page 76). Every opponent within 30 feet with Intelligence score of 3 or more that becomes demoralized, loses all morale bonuses to abilities, attack and damage rolls, and skills (this includes bonuses from spells and spell-like effects), for a number of rounds equal to 3 + fighter's Charisma modifier.
Counter-Tactics: Mages (Ex): A fighter knows how to fight spellcasters. He gains +5 dodge bonus to AC against spells and spell-like effects. In addition, he can use Constitution modifier in place of Wisdom modifier when making Will saves against spells and spell-like abilities.
Counter-Tactics: Mobs (Ex): A fighter knows well how to defend himself from multiple opponents at the same time. He gains +2 dodge bonus to AC and Damage Reduction 5 against attacks made by all opponents after the first one in any given round.
Counter-Tactics: Opportunists (Ex): A fighter knows how to fight melee opponents who use opportunity to deliver deadly blows. He gains +5 dodge bonus to AC against attacks of opportunity and gains Damage Reduction equal to half his fighter level against precision damage.
Counter-Tactics: Snatchers (Ex): A fighter knows how to fight grasping creatures. He gains +5 dodge bonus against grapple attempts and bite attacks. He also gains Damage Reduction equal to half his fighter level against bite attacks, constriction, and crushing damage when swallowed whole.
Diversity (Ex): Each feat that works with only one weapon the fighter has, now applies not to one weapon, but to a number of weapons equal to 3 + fighter’s Intelligence bonus (if positive).
Mastery of Armors (Ex): A fighter knows how to protect others with his armor. While wearing heavy armor, he can be used as cover by his allies.
Mastery of Feats (Ex): A fighter treats his ability scores as 4 points higher for the purpose of meeting requirements of feats with fighter descriptor.
Mastery of Shields (Ex): A fighter knows how to use shield to the fullest of its usefulness. He adds his shield bonus on all Reflex saves.
Reign of Steel (Ex): Fighter with this ability is trained to use his armor and shield to protect himself from a variety of environmental dangers. He reduces the damage he takes from fire, acid and cold effects by the armor and shield bonuses to AC. Furthermore, he reduces any falling damage by his armor bonus to AC.
Siege Engineering (Ex): A fighter can use Aid Another action on one siege weapon he commands. This grants it a +4 bonus on attack rolls and +4d6 bonus on damage rolls. He can also command at one time a number of siege weapons equal to his level, none two of which can be more than 100 feet away (or 400 feet away, if he has messengers on his disposal). All siege weapons he commands have their firing range increased by 10%.
Skills of War (Ex): A fighter has invested in learning skills that are not about killing others, but still essential on the battlefield. He gains +5 bonus on Craft (armorsmithing, bowmaking and weaponsmithing) checks, on Heal checks to perform first aid, on Bluff checks to perform feint in combat, and on Knowledge skills to determine enemies' abilities and weaknesses.
Supreme Combat Skills (Ex): You have trained your combat skills beyond the levels known to mundane warriors. As a result, you increase bonuses granted by two chosen feats by +2 (bonus types stay unchanged). The available feats are: Dodge, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple, Improved Initiative, Improved Overrun, Improved Sunder, Improved Trip, Mobility, and Trample. This ability can be taken more than once, but each time the fighter much choose 2 feat he didn't yet choose.
Watch Duty (Ex): The fighter needs only half as much sleep as normal person of his race would and gains immunity to sleep effects. In addition, the fighter can see all invisible creatures and objects as blurred, and can hear sounds in area of silence, but with a -10 penalty.
EPIC FIGHTER
Epic fighter is a combat machine, a master of more battle maneuvers than any other character in the game. More than a mere sword-swinger, the epic fighter knows how to best his opponents in any arena.

Fighter
Level Special .
21th Bonus feat
22th Warcraft
23th Bonus feat
24th Warcraft
25th Bonus feat
26th Warcraft
27th Bonus feat
28th Warcraft
29th Bonus feat
30th WarcraftBonus Feat: An epic fighter gains bonus feat at 21st level and every 2 levels thereafter (23rd, 25th, 27th, and so on). Whenever he gains a bonus feat from this ability, he may either take an epic feat, or two non-epic feats. The list of available epic feats is same as in Epic Level Handbook.

Warcraft: An epic fighter gains extra special ability at 22nd level and every 2 levels thereafter (24th, 26th, 28th, and so on).

Bears With Lasers
2007-02-19, 05:56 PM
I'm generally a fan of your ultimate classes, but I don't know that this does the right things for the Fighter. It's an improvement on the regular Fighter, for sure, but I don't think that it addresses the real issues the Fighter has: namely, a lack of battlefield mobility, being very easy to disable, and so on.

I've made my own Fighter fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30692) and would be interested in your take on it.


Stuff I like about this variant:
-Counter-tactics: Mages and Snatchers
-Watch Duty
-Soldier of Fortune
-Foil Enemy.

These address specific problems the fighter has, in a meaningful way.

Thantos
2007-02-19, 08:24 PM
Is this and the Wizard fix the same ones you had on the Wizard's boards?

I like it and all of the ones on the Wizard boards. And I have used them in a game and the only complaint I had was almost too many choices. It took a while to make NPC with these class. But besides that I though the ones on the Wizard's Board were great.

Bel_Bel
2007-02-19, 08:26 PM
This seems to be overpowered. You took the fighter and made it better. More skill points, more abilities, without taking anything away.

Bears With Lasers
2007-02-19, 08:28 PM
This seems to be overpowered. You took the fighter and made it better. More skill points, more abilities, without taking anything away.

Umm... yes. It's the fighter, but better.

You, uh, are aware that the fighter in the PHB is very, very weak past the first few levels, right? It needed improvement.

Ivius
2007-02-19, 08:32 PM
This seems to be overpowered. You took the fighter and made it better. More skill points, more abilities, without taking anything away.

I believe that was his exact intent, he was attempting to put them on par with casters, who run rings around fighters at high levels.

EDIT: Erg, Simul-posted.

Szatany
2007-02-20, 03:08 AM
I'm generally a fan of your ultimate classes, but I don't know that this does the right things for the Fighter. It's an improvement on the regular Fighter, for sure, but I don't think that it addresses the real issues the Fighter has: namely, a lack of battlefield mobility, being very easy to disable, and so on.

If you can spotlight those 2 problems to me, I can devise couterabilities no problem :). In general, some stuff a fighter might deserve might be missing because it went to another class. I have finished my knight class as well and he is much better at being a tank than the fighter for example. Likewise, I gave some amazing movement-based abilities to the skirmisher.


Is this and the Wizard fix the same ones you had on the Wizard's boards?
I like it and all of the ones on the Wizard boards. And I have used them in a game and the only complaint I had was almost too many choices. It took a while to make NPC with these class. But besides that I though the ones on the Wizard's Board were great.

Yes, glad you like them.


This seems to be overpowered. You took the fighter and made it better. More skill points, more abilities, without taking anything away.

True, read 1st line of 1st post ;)


EDIT: I'm thinking about 2 new abilities for the fighter. Need opinions:

Second Wind (Ex): A fighter can spend one use of veteran to instantly regain 1d6 + 1/2 level Hit Points.

Szatany
2007-02-20, 02:55 PM
I'm generally a fan of your ultimate classes, but I don't know that this does the right things for the Fighter. It's an improvement on the regular Fighter, for sure, but I don't think that it addresses the real issues the Fighter has: namely, a lack of battlefield mobility, [...]

I might have something for that problem:

Supreme Positioning (Ex): By spending one use of veteran ability as a free action, a fighter can ignore all penalties caused by armor (arcane spell failure, armor check penalty, speed reduction, etc.) for 1 round.

Armored Mobility (Ex): A fighter treats heavy armor he wears as medium and medium armor as light for purposes of determining his speed and running capabilities. This does not stack with abilities of mithral armors or any other similar effects.

AoiRorentsu
2007-02-20, 03:03 PM
Is a fighter easy to disable due to lack of good will/reflex saves, or is it something else I'm not seeing? I guess grappling could also keep a fighter busy....

Szatany
2007-02-20, 03:11 PM
Is a fighter easy to disable due to lack of good will/reflex saves, or is it something else I'm not seeing? I guess grappling could also keep a fighter busy....Isn't that true for most classes?
Besides, it's not like the fighter has no ways to improve his saves (soldier of fortune).

Morty
2007-02-20, 03:21 PM
I like it. I personally don't think that fighter 'sucks', or at least not harder that other melee classes(but then it's problem with melee classes not fighter himself), but it makes fighter even more flexible than before.

Fax Celestis
2007-02-20, 03:25 PM
The "mobility" issue described earlier is still apparent, since the fighter cannot fly to reach a spellcaster or keep up with one who has a phantom steed or the like. Anything he can do, he has to do at point-blank, where the majority of spells a wizard can cast at high level can be cast at a quarter-mile range or more (especially with the Expand Spell metamagic feat).

Szatany
2007-02-20, 03:30 PM
The "mobility" issue described earlier is still apparent, since the fighter cannot fly to reach a spellcaster or keep up with one who has a phantom steed or the like. Anything he can do, he has to do at point-blank, where the majority of spells a wizard can cast at high level can be cast at a quarter-mile range or more (especially with the Expand Spell metamagic feat).
That's what bows are for IIRC.

Fax Celestis
2007-02-20, 03:40 PM
That's what bows are for IIRC.

Can you fix them too, then? Because they suck too.

Szatany
2007-02-20, 03:51 PM
Can you fix them too, then? Because they suck too.
I don't see how bows suck compared to other weapons. What problems with them have you witnessed while playing?

Fax Celestis
2007-02-20, 04:00 PM
Here's the list: You can't sneak attack with them from a reasonable distance, which defeats the purpose of sniping. You can't Power Attack with them and require two high scores to increase their damage and accuracy (Str and Dex; as opposed to melee's one score, Str), and that's assuming you want to shell out the extra cash for a composite weapon. Many enchantments can't be placed on arrows, and the fighter foregoes attacks of opportunity.

Further, requiring the fighter to be able to function effectively in both melee and range means he has to divide his abilities between two feat trees, which oftentimes results in an inability to meet the cap of either of those feat trees. Even if it doesn't, it means he can't spend his feats on anything else that might assist him.

Lastly, since ammunition is expendable (and in fact breaks after use), in the long run archers actually spend more on their weaponry than meleers, despite the fact that ammunition can be created and enchanted separately.

Telonius
2007-02-20, 04:23 PM
Hmm, potential Cheese Alert on the Astonishing Maneuver ability, with a one-level dip in Master of Masks (from Complete Scoundrel) at level 17. The Gladiator mask grants you proficiency with all Exotic weapons as long as you're wearing the mask. The skill requirements would be pretty steep for a fighter (all the requirements are cross-class), but it could be done.

Szatany
2007-02-20, 04:41 PM
Hmm, potential Cheese Alert on the Astonishing Maneuver ability, with a one-level dip in Master of Masks (from Complete Scoundrel) at level 17. The Gladiator mask grants you proficiency with all Exotic weapons as long as you're wearing the mask. The skill requirements would be pretty steep for a fighter (all the requirements are cross-class), but it could be done.
So he has to invest god knows how many skill points to be proficient with all exotic weapons? Seems like a fugly deal to me.

Fax Celestis
2007-02-20, 04:47 PM
So he has to invest god knows how many skill points to be proficient with all exotic weapons? Seems like a fugly deal to me.

Or take a few levels in bard or rogue.

EDIT: Bard 6/Fighter 4/Master of Masks 3/Fighter 7, for instance.

Szatany
2007-02-20, 04:55 PM
Ok, what's the problem because I'm not seeing one.

shaddy_24
2007-02-20, 04:59 PM
Personally, I really like what you've done with this. I'm going to introduce it to my characters (especially the fighter)

Telonius
2007-02-20, 05:08 PM
Even if you're a full Fighter, it's 48 skill points, plus languages. If you have an Int of 12, that's 5 skill points a level (six if you're a human). You'd have the three prereq skills, and your choice of 2 fighter skills each level. Buy three languages, and you've got the requirements.

Anyway, I'd suggest that you amend it to say that it only grants the ability to Exotic weapons you have proficiency in due to race or feats. Urgrosh counts as an exotic weapon for purposes of this ability for Dwarves, Hooked Hammer counts as an exotic weapon for Gnomes, etc.

EDIT: The problem I'm seeing is that the ability could be a lot more versatile than you're anticipating. A Whip could act like a Shuriken one round, an Urgrosh the next, a Kama the next, and a Spiked Chain the next. You basically get to choose which weapon you're equipped with, any time you want to use a Veteran point. The only limit would be the number of Veteran points you have.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-20, 06:03 PM
Blow a Veteran use to be able to substitue a Fort save for a Ref or Will save?

This shouldn't be too overpowered if you set high prereqs, it has limited uses per day at least, and limit one per round. However, it should give them the survivability that you're looking for.

Szatany
2007-02-21, 03:40 AM
Blow a Veteran use to be able to substitue a Fort save for a Ref or Will save?

This shouldn't be too overpowered if you set high prereqs, it has limited uses per day at least, and limit one per round. However, it should give them the survivability that you're looking for.
Hey, that a good idea but it kinda steps on toes of my barbarian, so perhaps something like this:

Comforting Cuirass (Ex): When fighter is making Will save, he can spend one use of veteran ability to gain bonus on that save equal to half this armor's armor bonus to AC (including enhancement bonus).

(will only because fighters already have good fort and don't really need good reflex.)


Anyway, I'd suggest that you amend it to say that it only grants the ability to Exotic weapons you have proficiency in due to race or feats. Urgrosh counts as an exotic weapon for purposes of this ability for Dwarves, Hooked Hammer counts as an exotic weapon for Gnomes, etc.Probably a good idea.


EDIT: The problem I'm seeing is that the ability could be a lot more versatile than you're anticipating. A Whip could act like a Shuriken one round, an Urgrosh the next, a Kama the next, and a Spiked Chain the next. You basically get to choose which weapon you're equipped with, any time you want to use a Veteran point. The only limit would be the number of Veteran points you have.

And that's a serious limit, look at other abilities to see what better ways there are to spend points (instinctive maneuver and soldier of fortune being prime examples).


Here's the list: You can't sneak attack with them from a reasonable distance, which defeats the purpose of sniping. I'd say this is a fault of SA, not bows (something I corrected in my rogue and ranger).


You can't Power Attack with them and require two high scores to increase their damage and accuracy (Str and Dex; as opposed to melee's one score, Str), and that's assuming you want to shell out the extra cash for a composite weapon. Many enchantments can't be placed on arrows, and the fighter foregoes attacks of opportunity.Yeah, but you kill people from afar.


Further, requiring the fighter to be able to function effectively in both melee and range meansNo one said that, he should be able to shoot, but he shouldn't be able to shoot as well as he fights in melee. He just should be able to hold his own against opponents unreachable with melee. FIghters have to have their achilles' heel too you know.


Lastly, since ammunition is expendable (and in fact breaks after use), in the long run archers actually spend more on their weaponry than meleers, despite the fact that ammunition can be created and enchanted separately.

It's the fault of the system. I can't understand why arrows and bolts are the only things that break by default.

Tor the Fallen
2007-02-21, 04:00 AM
I really like this. I'd like to see your other classes. The names, the abilities, you've really added to the flexibility and durability of the fighter class, without taking away what makes it a fighter. No ki crap or magic stuff, just a guy who's gotten really, really good at what he does.

Watch Duty and Reign of Steel. What great names! Terrific abilities!

Great fix.



Hmm, potential Cheese Alert on the Astonishing Maneuver ability, with a one-level dip in Master of Masks (from Complete Scoundrel) at level 17. The Gladiator mask grants you proficiency with all Exotic weapons as long as you're wearing the mask. The skill requirements would be pretty steep for a fighter (all the requirements are cross-class), but it could be done.

So at level 17, after some dedicated foot work for qualification, he can switch between a bunch of weapons that do... 1 die worth of damage and have reach up to 15 feet.

Need I remind you what casters are doing at this level?

Fax Celestis
2007-02-21, 11:12 AM
No one said that, he should be able to shoot, but he shouldn't be able to shoot as well as he fights in melee. He just should be able to hold his own against opponents unreachable with melee. FIghters have to have their achilles' heel too you know.

Except, you know, he can't, because any target worth their salt that's out of reach of his melee weapon is going to have a handy Wind Wall and render the fighter utterly utterly useless.

Morty
2007-02-21, 11:31 AM
Except, you know, he can't, because any target worth their salt that's out of reach of his melee weapon is going to have a handy Wind Wall and render the fighter utterly utterly useless.

That's the problem with Wind Wall, which is one of the most broken core spells. It has nothing to do with fighter.
And I don't think that using bow sucks. Sure, you aren't dealing as much damage as in melee, but the fact that you can attack enemy while staying out of danger compensates that.

Szatany
2007-02-22, 07:03 AM
That's the problem with Wind Wall, which is one of the most broken core spells. It has nothing to do with fighter.
And I don't think that using bow sucks. Sure, you aren't dealing as much damage as in melee, but the fact that you can attack enemy while staying out of danger compensates that.
Some problems can be easily fixed without altering classes or equipment, or even spells. Take wind wall and forcecage for example. All you need is:

Arrow in the Wind [Archery]
Prerequisites: Dex 15, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: Your attacks with bows ignore penalties caused by normal weather.
If you have 5 archery feats, whenever you fire a magic bow, or a magic arrow from any bow, your attacks also ignore magical weather, such as one caused by wind wall.
If you have 9 archery feats, whenever you fire a magic bow, or a magic arrow from any bow, your arrows pass through walls of force and prismatic walls (you might be unable to see your target in case of prismatic wall however).

Interpose [Weaponry]
Prereqs: Int 13, Base attack bonus +18.
Benefit: As an immediate action, you may select 1 square that you threaten for every 2 weaponry feats you have. All squares have to be adjacent. For one round, squares affected count as being occupied contiguously for the purpose of effects and spells, and as a difficult terrain for the purpose of enemies' movement.

Morty
2007-02-22, 07:22 AM
Those are very good, but I really think that Forcecage and Wind Wall should be nerfed instead of adding new feats or class features- I guess it's the matter of taste.

Szatany
2007-02-22, 07:31 AM
Those are very good, but I really think that Forcecage and Wind Wall should be nerfed instead of adding new feats or class features- I guess it's the matter of taste.
I'm just making a point that there are many possible ways around the problem, and since many of them don't involve classes, and since I only do classes here, I'm gonna leave those problems to individual DMs.

dj2145
2007-02-22, 08:36 AM
Some problems can be easily fixed without altering classes or equipment, or even spells. Take wind wall and forcecage for example. All you need is:

Arrow in the Wind [Archery]
Prerequisites: Dex 15, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: Your attacks with bows ignore penalties caused by normal weather.
If you have 5 archery feats, whenever you fire a magic bow, or a magic arrow from any bow, your attacks also ignore magical weather, such as one caused by wind wall.
If you have 9 archery feats, whenever you fire a magic bow, or a magic arrow from any bow, your arrows pass through walls of force and prismatic walls (you might be unable to see your target in case of prismatic wall however).

Interpose [Weaponry]
Prereqs: Int 13, Base attack bonus +18.
Benefit: As an immediate action, you may select 1 square that you threaten for every 2 weaponry feats you have. All squares have to be adjacent. For one round, squares affected count as being occupied contiguously for the purpose of effects and spells, and as a difficult terrain for the purpose of enemies' movement.


Ooooh, I likey! There is no better satisfaction than having your opponent tell you you cant do something only to turn around and do it!

Wizard: "Stupid Fighter, I have wind wall, you can't hurt me with that bow!"

Fighter: Draws arrow, aims and launches. Arrow cuts easily through wind wall and impales Wizard.

"Uh, sorry old chap, what was it you were saying?"

Very nice work on the class by the way.

Szatany
2007-02-25, 09:46 AM
Added 2 new art of battle abilities: comforting cuirass and supreme positioning, and 2 new warcraft abilities: armored mobility and articulation.