Sooooooo... Here come the Drows!

[skypse]

Hey giants! It's been long enough but I'm back with more questions for you! xD

I will be starting a campaign the coming month and our DM gave us an early warning that it will be a long and difficult one. He asked us to be prepared and to create our characters. I always (and I mean ALWAYS since Baldur's Gate times) wanted to play a genuine Dark Elf. In D&D terms this means drow. I am not looking for something cheesy so I am not talking about noble drows or anything. Just a regular, purple skinned, red eyed, good old-fashioned hateful drow.

I created my character, all good an fine. Drow, Wizard lvl 5, Necromancy vs Abjuration&Divination, Crafted Robe of Bones (he allows us to have a crafted item) and the normal starting gold of 10500. So I send him my character. So far all good and nice.

Next day, he replies to me that my character is unplayable because there is no reasoning for a Drow adventurer. Drows are not the adventurous type of race, they don't want to go to the surface for any freaking reason (unless if it is to level a dwarven/elven castle) so my character could not live in the world and my RP would be unplayable. I told him that I won't be the kind of Drow that wants to rule the world and dominate everthing blah blah blah, and that I just love this race and since I was really young and played BG I always loved the concept of the Drow Necro.

After lots of verbal fights, he concluded that if I can give him a proper reason according to the pathfinder books that a single Drow would leave his hometown and go to the surface to start adventuring, he would let me do it. Until then, the closer I can get is the half-elf with the half-drow paragon feat.

Pathfinder has really many books for me and my limited time to read, so I can't really find anything. If any of you here have read any books related to drows and can give me a logical reason why this would happen, I would really appreciate it. Thank you in advance!!

[kenjigoku]

Easy. Tank your CHA and point out that your Drow is a bit of an odd duck. You hate being subservient to women (and for good measure you find them icky). You left your homeland with a huge distaste for matriarchal societies. As for why you didn't stay in the Underdark (or whatever they are calling it). You hate the lesser Underdark dwelling beings and enjoy the finer things in life. You made your way to the surface. As a book-worm home-schooled nerd, you failed to learn the basics of survival and quickly learned that without coin you could not eat. So you decide to employ your skills as a book-worm. Sadly with no ranks in profession you were not making a living wage, and your dark skin made you quite the outcast even on the surface. You soon learn that quick and easy coin comes to the man in bathrobes that can destroy other creatures for a living. Since you hate all lesser beings (but realize that sometimes they can have their uses) you join an adventuring party.

EDIT: I realize that this is not a quote to any particular book, but it works for a wizard. Also on d20pfsrd.com they point out what makes a drow adventurer.

So alternatively, you work for a drow slaving cartel. With your knack for necromancy you are able to make the most out of slaves. You work them dry and then when they croak you return them to work as corpses. Everything was fine and dandy until your cartel leader decided to try and backstab a female head of house. Your cartel was hunted down and killed, with you the only survivor. You decide that staying in the Underdark will lead to your own demise so you make your way upward to find more slaves. Realizing that it is harder to move an army of undead on the surface you accept that you may need to put your talents to use with a band of misfits. Joining an adventuring party, you await the moment that one of your allies dies so you can make him "more efficient".

EDIT EDIT: Typoz

[FabulousFizban]

personally I hate Drow, but I'll help you out. There is an alternate racial trait in the ARG that gives you all the background you need. Surface Infiltrator:Some drow dwell close to the surface lands, either because they serve drow causes or they were exiled.

Why not be a drow spy? Or an exiled male escaping the wrath of a matriarch? I like the spy option. A little prestidigitation can change the color of your skin & make you seem like a regular elf. Gather information on the pathetic surface dwellers, report to the matriarchs that your hated dwarven and elvish enemies have become weak and petty. The surface world is ripe for invasion! but good intel is key to a successful campaign... you can travel with the surfaces "heroes" to gather a measure of the potential resistance.

[Spore]

Exiled sounds great. You may have invoked the anger of someone in power. And rather than constantly conspiring to survive you could just leave. Another backstory is blatantly stolen from Viconia. Your house was crushed and since you are a noble - and thusly being able to accuse the enemy house of attacking you - an important target that could mean the deaths of hundreds.

[Crustypeanut]

Alright, so being a huge Golarion lore junky, I'm going to try and help you show your GM the what-for, even though I hate elves and hate the Drow.

Drow -are- often on the surface, just never seen. Being the evil bastards they are, they're often up there in disguise seeking out ways to bring about the downfall of the Elves. Kind of cliched, if I say so myself, but there you have it!

Now, you're a Drow Necromancer, which I assume means you're not the nicest guy around. As a Drow Necromancer who is 'adventuring', you probably want to lay low and not reveal your race, thus the need for magical disguises. Things like the Hat of Disguise or spells will allow you to blend in with the 'lesser races', while adventuring. Perhaps you're just wandering around, not actively seeking the death of your surface kin - instead, perhaps you're simply learning more about the surface world so you can relay the information to your superiors back in the Darklands.

However, theres another route. It is said in one adventure path (Won't spoil which ones), that Drow in Golarion can spontaneously arise from regular elves. Yep. Some elves are so pissed off, have so much hatred in them that their hair spontaneously goes white and their skin black. Happened to a major NPC in this campaign, who spent so much time fighting her enemy (The Drow), that her hatred grew so much and being pissed off at her own superiors caused her to effectively become what she hated the most. Then she joined them.

So, your GM is wrong in that Drow don't go to the surface - definitely wrong. Its just that almost no one knows about their presence. The Elves have been fairly good at keeping the lid on the pot, as it would be. Except that they failed in Varisia, and so word is spreading about the so called 'dark elves'.

They can blame the half-elf Koriah Azmeren for that, for she published a book on her studies into the Darklands, including the Drow.

So, go with that!

[JHShadon]

Something I've wanted to do for a while is make a Drow that went to the surface because he wanted to go to an exotic place for his vacation.

[ZeroSpace9000]

Another option, and one that I used briefly used before the character just got straight up shelved.

In short your male drow (yes, gender mattered) has realized that the best he can hope for in drow society is to lick someone else's boots for his life, and then be made into a doormat in Lloth's domain for all eternity. In exchange for undying loyalty and subservience, he gets treated like unworthy filth. Why settle for that, when you can, with a little skill, luck, and craftiness, carve out your own little slice turf?

Granted, with my proposed drow character, he was a Binder (Tome of Magic), and was looking into other beings that had been excised by the church of Lloth to follow. The basic idea can still work, and can also open the possibility of a non-evil alignment as well.

[Arbane]

"Are you joking? I love it here on the surface. Granted, the sun is painful. But here, when people want me dead, they usually try to stab me in the front!"

[Renen]

Or you can always take one of those "raised by" traits and say he (somehow) was raised by human parents, and thus doesnt give a single **** about underdark.

[firebrandtoluc]

PCs are the definition of the exception to the rule. If a player wants to be something unique in all the multiverse, the uniqueness of it should not be a factor in its playability at all. If the campaign story deliberately centers around characters that are supposed to be champions of the common people or something, then it would make sense to ban weird stuff. Otherwise, this objection always makes me facepalm. A Drow has all the same reasons available to them to be immersed in a foreign culture as anyone in any world ever has. Including real life reasons actual human beings have had.

[137beth]

The adopted trait (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/social-traits/adopted) seems like an easy answer.
He was brought along on a surface-raiding party and lost as an infant.

[Rogue Shadows]

A good reason?

"My character is a free-thinking individual, not a stereotype. I shouldn't have to justify a drow adventuring on the surface any more than a human character would have to justify adventuring in the Underdark."

Alternatively...

"So..." I said, looking the dark elf up and down. "You're a drow."

He rolled his eyes beneath his hood as we walked down the road. "You're one of the observant ones, I see."

I decided to let that pass. "Just wondering...what brings you up here? Your skin is black as tar but you still burn on a clear day, and you need to wear that hood all the time. You yourself said you lost all your neat magic items since they crumbled to dust in sunlight." He winced at that one, but I continued. "And you were a pretty big guy down there, weren't you? So why come up here?"

The drow stopped walking, as did I. He seemed to be considering, looking around a few moments as though checking to see if anyone was nearby. Finally, he leaned in close to me. "Two words," he whispered conspiratorially. "Tavern. Wenches."

I needed a moment to process that. "What?"

"Tavern wenches!" he repeated, eyebrows waggling. "Well, more broadly, your egalitarian society and the fact that I can be treated like an equal up here - for my gender, that is. Down below? Glass ceilings everywhere. And, uh...well, your females aren't so bad if you have a taste for white meat. Which it turns out, I do, having spent the past three hundred eighty years with nothing but dark, if you know what I mean. Also? It's safer up here."

I shook my head. "It can't be that bad - "

"I have, literally, seen my best friends be manipulated by their girlfriends into lying down onto an altar so that their hearts can be torn out by a summoned demon. Said girlfriends don't even wait for the poor buggers to die before batting their eyelashes at the next package they lay their eyes on."

I couldn't help but blink a few times at that. "That's rough, buddy."

"You have no idea."

[FidgetySquirrel]

I had the same problem when I tried to make a drow in 3.5. The approach that I took was that my drow PC had been subjected to an abnormal amount of abuse, even for a low-class male. Instead of being broken down for this, he escaped his predicament and tried to make it on his own outside of drow society, but with no one to help him, it was too difficult evading drow patrols and all of the big nasties in the underdark, so he went to the surface.

Obviously, things didn't go much better up there, since everyone hates dark elves, so he decided to become an adventurer. Some groups will accept just about anyone since they get a lot more exposure to things like, well, non-evil drow. He then started on a quest to prove to surfacers that drow can be decent people, and hopefully trigger a change that might lead to peace between surfacers and drow.

To make the character a bit more believable for my DM, he still struggled when dealing with high elves and had a tendency to start yelling/swearing in undercommon when he was frustrated, and was just a little arrogant.

The DM put a threw a lot of rp'ing challenges my way, though. I had to deal with people inherently not trusting me and merchants either charging me ludicrous prices for goods or outright refusing to sell to me at all, not to mention the reactions I would get from elf NPCs, but it was worth it.

[torrasque666]

I have a similar question: How to justify a Drow Noble on the surface?

[FidgetySquirrel]

I have a similar question: How to justify a Drow Noble on the surface?

CE drow noble "I grow weary of stabbing my political rivals in the back, so I'll go to the surface and stab some hippie high elves in their tree-hugging faces!"

[Thoa]

I´m currenly DM of a Drow Campaign. We have houseruled, that they can adapt to the Sun over time.

My 3 Players started in the Underdark as slaves. Two (1 male, 1 female) were Nobles before and one was born into it. But one successful slave Riot and the tree of them (and some 100 more, which were slowly killed by the dangers of the underdark on their way to the survace) and i have tree Drow on the survace ready to adventure.
The current goal is for them to become noble in the kingdom they came up.

So, there are plenty of reasons to be there. Mainly they just dont like it down there. ;)

[MirthTheBard]

A good reason?

"My character is a free-thinking individual, not a stereotype. I shouldn't have to justify a drow adventuring on the surface any more than a human character would have to justify adventuring in the Underdark."



This right here. Unless the party as a whole is in agreement that the campaign setting is focused on specific races or some theme like being super good, then the GM shouldn't be so harsh with allowing you to pick a race of your choosing. The game is supposed to be about roleplaying what you want to have fun, not following rigid guidelines so that one person(the GM in this matter) gets their way(again, unless everyone's in agreement).

[skypse]

Wow thanks guys! that's all huge help and I will try one or two of them. However I believe the most chances are with the books so...



Alright, so being a huge Golarion lore junky, I'm going to try and help you show your GM the what-for, even though I hate elves and hate the Drow.

Drow -are- often on the surface, just never seen. Being the evil bastards they are, they're often up there in disguise seeking out ways to bring about the downfall of the Elves. Kind of cliched, if I say so myself, but there you have it!

Now, you're a Drow Necromancer, which I assume means you're not the nicest guy around. As a Drow Necromancer who is 'adventuring', you probably want to lay low and not reveal your race, thus the need for magical disguises. Things like the Hat of Disguise or spells will allow you to blend in with the 'lesser races', while adventuring. Perhaps you're just wandering around, not actively seeking the death of your surface kin - instead, perhaps you're simply learning more about the surface world so you can relay the information to your superiors back in the Darklands.

However, theres another route. It is said in one adventure path (Won't spoil which ones), that Drow in Golarion can spontaneously arise from regular elves. Yep. Some elves are so pissed off, have so much hatred in them that their hair spontaneously goes white and their skin black. Happened to a major NPC in this campaign, who spent so much time fighting her enemy (The Drow), that her hatred grew so much and being pissed off at her own superiors caused her to effectively become what she hated the most. Then she joined them.

So, your GM is wrong in that Drow don't go to the surface - definitely wrong. Its just that almost no one knows about their presence. The Elves have been fairly good at keeping the lid on the pot, as it would be. Except that they failed in Varisia, and so word is spreading about the so called 'dark elves'.

They can blame the half-elf Koriah Azmeren for that, for she published a book on her studies into the Darklands, including the Drow.

So, go with that!

PLEASE tell me that this information exists in a book or something! I can definitely use this with one of the other proposed stories to create my background but the most important thing is to prove that according to the book drows exist on the surface. The problem is that in the ARG it says that drows almost never go up unless it is to settle an old grudge and that's where my DM hangs from. If I can show him that this is not absolute and there are non-3rd party books that prove it, it would be perfect!

[WarKitty]

A good reason?

"My character is a free-thinking individual, not a stereotype. I shouldn't have to justify a drow adventuring on the surface any more than a human character would have to justify adventuring in the Underdark."

Alternatively...

"So..." I said, looking the dark elf up and down. "You're a drow."

He rolled his eyes beneath his hood as we walked down the road. "You're one of the observant ones, I see."

I decided to let that pass. "Just wondering...what brings you up here? Your skin is black as tar but you still burn on a clear day, and you need to wear that hood all the time. You yourself said you lost all your neat magic items since they crumbled to dust in sunlight." He winced at that one, but I continued. "And you were a pretty big guy down there, weren't you? So why come up here?"

The drow stopped walking, as did I. He seemed to be considering, looking around a few moments as though checking to see if anyone was nearby. Finally, he leaned in close to me. "Two words," he whispered conspiratorially. "Tavern. Wenches."

I needed a moment to process that. "What?"

"Tavern wenches!" he repeated, eyebrows waggling. "Well, more broadly, your egalitarian society and the fact that I can be treated like an equal up here - for my gender, that is. Down below? Glass ceilings everywhere. And, uh...well, your females aren't so bad if you have a taste for white meat. Which it turns out, I do, having spent the past three hundred eighty years with nothing but dark, if you know what I mean. Also? It's safer up here."

I shook my head. "It can't be that bad - "

"I have, literally, seen my best friends be manipulated by their girlfriends into lying down onto an altar so that their hearts can be torn out by a summoned demon. Said girlfriends don't even wait for the poor buggers to die before batting their eyelashes at the next package they lay their eyes on."

I couldn't help but blink a few times at that. "That's rough, buddy."

"You have no idea."

Even better alternatively?

Forget wenches! Drow expect you to be in a proper role for a man. Trouble is you're entirely uninterested in women and would much rather find some nice young men. You draw too much attention by being immune to their charms and you'd rather find somewhere that you can find a nice boyfriend, or at least some nice willing young men, without worrying about finding a dagger in your back.

[FabulousFizban]

Wow thanks guys! that's all huge help and I will try one or two of them. However I believe the most chances are with the books so...




PLEASE tell me that this information exists in a book or something! I can definitely use this with one of the other proposed stories to create my background but the most important thing is to prove that according to the book drows exist on the surface. The problem is that in the ARG it says that drows almost never go up unless it is to settle an old grudge and that's where my DM hangs from. If I can show him that this is not absolute and there are non-3rd party books that prove it, it would be perfect!

yeah, there is basically a whole city in varisia that the drow took over after the elves left following earthfall. When the elves returned to their ancient city, the were horrified and basically laid siege to the place. They tell the other races that the city is a very traditional place where elves go to live elf lives, and so other races aren't allowed there. The reality is the place is overrun by drow. Can't remember what book the info is in... inner sea guide maybe? you can read up on it online though. the city is Celwynvian.

Also for OPs character: "why are you on the surface?"
"Teleportation mishap."

[skypse]

I found the book "Drow of Golarion" and I will read it tonight after work. I hope I can find what I'm looking for in there.

On another note, Celwynvian seems to be from a specific campaign setting so I don't think he will be happy with this.

Crustypeanut you are still my best chance if you are right about the hidden drows. Hope you get back in the forums soon :P

Thank you all however for your feedback and suggestions. Everything is welcomed if you have any other ideas :)

[13ones]

The following wall of words is all from the SRD and is honestly a good starting point in terms of Drow and the surface in pathfinder.

Relations: Drow have a strong sense of racial superiority and divide non-drow into two groups: slaves, and those that are not yet slaves. In practice, however, races that may share similar inclinations (such as hobgoblins and orcs) and those who serve willingly may be treated as servitor races and granted a measure of trust and modest rank in drow society. Others, such as dwarves, gnomes, and halflings, are deemed fit only for the lash. Manipulative drow delight in exploiting the weak character of humans. While they claim no kinship with fetchlings, the drow harbor a curiosity toward the shadow race, as both are adaptations of races exposed to extreme and dangerous conditions. Finally, the drow's hatred of elves sets these beings apart from all other races, and the dark elves desire nothing more than to ruin everything about their surface cousins.

Alignment and Religion: Drow place a premium on power and survival, and are unapologetic about any vile choices they might make to ensure their survival. After all, they do not just survive adversity—they conquer it. They have no use for compassion, and are unforgiving of their enemies, both ancient and contemporary. Drow retain the elven traits of strong emotion and passion, but channel it through negative outlets, such as hatred, vengeance, lust for power, and raw carnal sensation. Consequently, most drow are chaotic evil. Demon lords are their chosen patrons, sharing their inclination toward power and destruction.

Adventurers: Conquerors and slavers, drow are driven to expand their territory, and many seek to settle ancient grudges upon elven and dwarven nations in ruinous and dreary sites of contested power on the surface. Male drow favor martial or stealth classes that put them close to their enemies and their homes, as either soldiers or spies. Female drow typically assume classes that lend themselves to leadership, such as bards and especially clerics. Both genders have an innate talent for the arcane arts, and may be wizards or summoners. Drow make natural antipaladins, but males are often discouraged from this path, as the feminine nobility feel discomforted by the idea of strong-willed males with autonomous instincts and a direct relationship with a demon lord.

[skypse]

Well yeah. Here lie my DM's problems:


most drow are chaotic evil


Conquerors and slavers, drow are driven to expand their territory, and many seek to settle ancient grudges upon elven and dwarven nations in ruinous and dreary sites of contested power on the surface.

The main problem as I said earlier is the "frequency". I have to prove him that it is normal for Drows to go up to the surface (or at least find something like Celwynvian where drows actually live there) and it is not the random and very rare situation of a Drow going up and wanted to start an adventure.

[Renen]

Your DM wants too much.

99% of DMs are perfectly fine with the following explanation:
"My character is the 1 in a million drow that decided to leave underdark and become an adventurer."

Like was said adventurers are badass and uniue. Ttue, they can follow normal conventions, but they sure as hell can be the polar opposite of all their race.

[skypse]

TBH I myself don't really like the explanation "just because". I like having a plausible story that goes according to the rules of the world I am inside. If I expand the logic of "1 in a million" I could be the one in a million demigot that happens to be undercover on a secret mission sent from Asmodeus himself and act like I am 5lvl character but I trully am 30 and invincible...

[Crustypeanut]

Wow thanks guys! that's all huge help and I will try one or two of them. However I believe the most chances are with the books so...

PLEASE tell me that this information exists in a book or something! I can definitely use this with one of the other proposed stories to create my background but the most important thing is to prove that according to the book drows exist on the surface. The problem is that in the ARG it says that drows almost never go up unless it is to settle an old grudge and that's where my DM hangs from. If I can show him that this is not absolute and there are non-3rd party books that prove it, it would be perfect!

Check the Second Darkness Adventure Path books - although massive spoilers for that AP abound in there, everything I mentioned was from that AP (I think). That campaign is all Drow. (Hope I didn't spoil that for anyone!)

This one paragraph does help lend evidence contrary to your GM's claim though: (Spoilered due to spoilers)

Thus began a bloody secret war between the elves and
drow. The elves were desperate to keep the secret of their
fallen race from the rest of the world, while the drow
themselves now had a renewed interest in the surface world.
Eventually, the elves were forced to retreat to the surface,
where the light of the sun returned their advantage, for
the drow were blinded by its brilliance and many of their
most powerful weapons and armor swiftly decayed under
its light. Celwynvian became a no-man’s land, an endless
battleground between the elves and drow as each struggled
to control the other, yet each being unable to fully claim
the ruin as their own.

But yes, everything I mentioned did seem campaign specific to Golarion, which you said your GM may not like - but that doesn't mean that the Drow aren't doing these exact same things in other campaign settings. Sure they don't much like the surface world due to their weakness to light, but that doesn't mean they aren't interested in it.

I'm assuming they'd just wear sunglasses.



The elves of Golarion are desperate to keep their secret
shame safe from the other races of Golarion at all costs,
especially the worst secret of all: for once contact with the
drow had been established, their taint seemed to spread
through the elven people like a contagion. At first, the
spontaneous transformation into drow among the elves
was thought to be a drow weapon, yet investigation soon
revealed the awful truth. Something had changed during
Earthfall, and now, under the right conditions, any elf with
enough cruelty and wrath hidden in her soul runs the risk of
spontaneously transforming into a drow. Such spontaneous
transformations thankfully remained rare, yet the elves
were at a loss to predict when they would occur. Certainly,
there were plenty of evil and cruel elves in the world who
remained untransformed. Until the elves discovered a way
to accurately predict the elements that would trigger such
a transformation, they kept watch. Policing drow upon
the surface world fell to a group of hunters founded by the
Winter Council called the Shin’Rakorath (elven for “Lantern
Bearers”), elven rangers and arcanists who dedicated
their lives to tracking down and eliminating drow as
they appeared. To date, the Shin’Rakorath have been quite
successful at handling drow—rumors of the dark-skinned
and evil elves remain just rumors due to their actions, and
most of Golarion’s surface-dwelling races think of the drow
as little more than myths and nightmares.

This is all from the first book of Second Darkness, Shadow in the Sky. Just read the Adventure Background. I hope your GM can see why Drow might end up going to the surface! In the end, they don't like it, but they will do so in order to fight their enemies (The Elves).

Oh and if you read the Shackles book, there are actually a group of Drow there in that island archipelago with close connections to pirate slavers. In a modified campaign I was going to be doing, I was going to include Drow Pirates that sailed only at night.. but alas, the campaign never got off the ground.

[Renen]

TBH I myself don't really like the explanation "just because". I like having a plausible story that goes according to the rules of the world I am inside. If I expand the logic of "1 in a million" I could be the one in a million demigot that happens to be undercover on a secret mission sent from Asmodeus himself and act like I am 5lvl character but I trully am 30 and invincible...

I actually did that once...

[13ones]

You're a necromancer, correct?

Here are a couple of solid back stories.

You are the right hand, arcane adviser to a noblewoman in the underdark. She has tasked you with a quest to find the most powerful spells and collect them for her vast collection of arcane knowledge. You are effectively someone's overpowered underling sent out to collect magic and research notes on the effects of Necromancy on surface dwelling beings.

Want to be less 'evil mook'? I got you covered, homie.

In a recent power struggle the heads of your house were unceremoniously butchered. Being a loyal member of the house since birth you have left the underdark in order to gather power and overworld allies to get the house back, and raise your former Mistress as a powerful undead (such as a vampire) so she can continue her reign and seek vengeance.

Want to be a little less 'bound' to a house?

You are an independent 'contractor' among the Drow with connections between both the surface and underdark. You have been hired by one of the houses to 'fix' a few defectors among their own surface world networks. It's your job to find a handful of NPCs you can create in order to snuff them out, steal the souls, and send the gems back to your employer.

Want to be a little less evil?

Tired of the oppression you faced at the hands of the noblewomen you decided to strike out on your own. Stealing a tome of necromancy from a powerful noblewoman necromancer/vampire you have fled the underdark and never looked back. You are happy to embrace freedom and live in the excess of the surface world, always with a backwards glance and open eye less the vampire noblewoman you stole from comes seeking her property.