Optimize a sorceror/favored soul

[Shadowscale]

I had this idea for a half-elven mystic theurge using both the spontaneous tier two charisma casrers, I know mystic theurge and half elves for that matter are non-ooptimal, but I was wondering if there were any resources that such character choices have any options.

Help with what classes levels to take from 1-20, feats, flaws, and anything along the like would be greatly appreciated. (Early entry accepted, as well as any half-elven only abilities/feats if they exist.)

Thank you to all in advance.

[Juntao112]

FS3/Sorc2/MT10, using Versitile Spellcaster and Heighten Spell to qualify

[Khedrac]

It is also worth noting that the general take on the FS/Sorc MT without early-entry cheese is "don't do it, it's worse than it looks".

I am not sure how much early entry will even help, and once you hit MT 10 you are again stuffed unless you want to go necromancer (the only other dual progression class you are likely to qualify for).

Sorry if this is not helpful, but having played a Favored Soul they are remarkably weak even without comparing them to clerics!

What makes sorcerer work in conventional MT builds (e.g. Arcane Hierophant) is that on one side you keep the full flexibility of a prepared caster while on the Sorceror side you load up on the spells you cast (nearly) every encounter.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Favored Soul 1/ Bloodline 1/ Sorcerer 1/ Mystic Theurge 10, with Sanctum Spell. That's an ECL 12 character that spent an extra 1,000 xp on the bloodline level, and you have a caster level of 12 with both classes. If you use Bamboo Spirit Folk instead of Half-Elf and pick up Knowledge Devotion to get Kn: Nature as a class skill, you can finish with Arcane Hierophant and have 19th level spellcasting in each class at a caster level of 20th at ECL 20.

[Rebel7284]

I have given this combination some thought in the past.

As pointed out, without early entry, this is horrendous. Just look at Sorcerer 4/Favored Soul 4/Mystic Theurge 1 *shudder*

Luckily, Versatile Spellcaster says nothing about ARCANE spells and thus you can use it with heighten spell to qualify for early entry on both sides.

However, you also need Knowledge Devotion, or some other way to get knowledge religion on your class list, in order to qualify for mystic theurge after 3 levels.

So without flaws, this means you need the extra feat, so you are probably human.

Built looks something like Sorcerer 2/Favored Soul 1/Mystic Theurge 10 which is a fine build if you know the game will be over by level 13.

What happens if you want to play to 20 though? Well, one approach is to go into an arcane PrC and keep the 11 level progression of favored soul for utility. However, if you want more spells, this can be a little complicated if your DM is unwilling to extend Mystic Theurge.

A rules-shaky solution can be to use Legacy Champion to extend Mystic Theurge casting. However, It loses another level at progression at 7th.

So S2/FS1/MT10/LC6/S1 would get casting as Sorcerer 18 and Favored Soul 16.

There are two classes that I know of that progress both arcane and divine casting fully:
Arcane Hierophant and Fochlucan Lyrist. The Fochlucan Lyrist has crazy requirements that we can't hope to satisfy without using fast progression classes and mindraping druids and such, so let's focus on Arcane Hierophant.

We can eventually satisfy all the prerequisites via Mystic Theurge except this one:
Special: Trackless step class feature.

Some ways to obtain that:
Wildrunner 1 Dip
Bamboo Spirit Folk Race
Holt Warden 3

Wildrunner requires a feat and heavy skill tax, and, in addition, we needed the extra feat to qualify in time without flaws. Doable with flaws for a nice Sorcerer 18/Favored Soul 17 or Favored Soul 18/Sorcerer 17 build.

Spirit Folk has wording issues because it's a racial ability, not a class ability. Also same issue with needing flaws. However, unlike wildrunner, this can get Sorcerer 19/Favored Soul 18 for some double 9s.

Holt Warden: I love this class, however, it takes a huge hit to sorcerer casting. Leads to S1/FS2/MT4/HW 3/AH10 for Favored Soul 18/Sorcerer 15

The use of bloodlines, mentioned above can improve some of these builds. The way they work is vague enough for me that I prefer to avoid them.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I forgot about Kn: Religion...

You can be a Forestlord Half-Elf from Dragon Magic, get the Dragonblood Sorcerer 1 substitution level at 1st level, and take the Draconic Knowledge feat also in Dragon Magic to get all knowledge skills as class skills. You'll need to use flaws to obtain the necessary early entry feats, either Sanctum Spell or Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell, to qualify for Mystic Theurge with only one level in each of those two classes.

Take a minor bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm) and gain one bloodline level between Sorcerer 1 and Favored Soul 1. Bloodline levels don't increase your character level, so at 1st level once you've gained 1,000 xp you level up and take your bloodline level. You're still counted as a 1st level character, so either you only need an additional 1,000 xp to gain another level, or you already have sufficient xp to level up to 2nd and the bloodline level cost you nothing. That bloodline level allows you to meet the skill rank prerequisite for Mystic Theurge with only two class levels, and it increases your caster level in each class by one.

[Captnq]

How about... don't.

Play a Spellcaster base class from UA and just pick the spells you want. A spellcaster can pick spells from cleric, druid, and sorcerer/wizard spell lists. You choose to be an arcane or divine spellcaster, but other then that, any spell from every list is yours to choose. No cheese, no BS, and you can have cure X wounds right next to magic missile and Wall of thorns. Combine with prestige bard/paladin/ranger and you can cheese your way into a whole bunch of PrCs. Hell, you want to multiclass with another caster? Versatile Spellcaster your spellcaster, add 3 levels of Psionics, and be a cerebremancer. Become a total nightmare of cherry picked powers and spells.

[Rebel7284]

How about... don't.

Play a Spellcaster base class from UA and just pick the spells you want. A spellcaster can pick spells from cleric, druid, and sorcerer/wizard spell lists. You choose to be an arcane or divine spellcaster, but other then that, any spell from every list is yours to choose. No cheese, no BS, and you can have cure X wounds right next to magic missile and Wall of thorns. Combine with prestige bard/paladin/ranger and you can cheese your way into a whole bunch of PrCs. Hell, you want to multiclass with another caster? Versatile Spellcaster your spellcaster, add 3 levels of Psionics, and be a cerebremancer. Become a total nightmare of cherry picked powers and spells.

Losing 3 levels of arcane casting to become a total nightmare? eh? You become a better psion, certainly.

As for generic spellcaster, it has its own issues such as removing all other base and arguably prestige classes from the game. Not to mention much fewer spells known make it more like a weaker sorcerer.

[Urpriest]

Do you want a Cha-based spontaneous spellcaster with both arcane and divine flavor? Or do you specifically want a Sorceror/Favored Soul Theurge? If the latter, what does that get you that the former wouldn't?

[Shadowscale]

I have given this combination some thought in the past.

As pointed out, without early entry, this is horrendous. Just look at Sorcerer 4/Favored Soul 4/Mystic Theurge 1 *shudder*

Luckily, Versatile Spellcaster says nothing about ARCANE spells and thus you can use it with heighten spell to qualify for early entry on both sides.

However, you also need Knowledge Devotion, or some other way to get knowledge religion on your class list, in order to qualify for mystic theurge after 3 levels.

So without flaws, this means you need the extra feat, so you are probably human.

Built looks something like Sorcerer 2/Favored Soul 1/Mystic Theurge 10 which is a fine build if you know the game will be over by level 13.

What happens if you want to play to 20 though? Well, one approach is to go into an arcane PrC and keep the 11 level progression of favored soul for utility. However, if you want more spells, this can be a little complicated if your DM is unwilling to extend Mystic Theurge.

A rules-shaky solution can be to use Legacy Champion to extend Mystic Theurge casting. However, It loses another level at progression at 7th.

So S2/FS1/MT10/LC6/S1 would get casting as Sorcerer 18 and Favored Soul 16.

There are two classes that I know of that progress both arcane and divine casting fully:
Arcane Hierophant and Fochlucan Lyrist. The Fochlucan Lyrist has crazy requirements that we can't hope to satisfy without using fast progression classes and mindraping druids and such, so let's focus on Arcane Hierophant.

We can eventually satisfy all the prerequisites via Mystic Theurge except this one:
Special: Trackless step class feature.

Some ways to obtain that:
Wildrunner 1 Dip
Bamboo Spirit Folk Race
Holt Warden 3

Wildrunner requires a feat and heavy skill tax, and, in addition, we needed the extra feat to qualify in time without flaws. Doable with flaws for a nice Sorcerer 18/Favored Soul 17 or Favored Soul 18/Sorcerer 17 build.

Spirit Folk has wording issues because it's a racial ability, not a class ability. Also same issue with needing flaws. However, unlike wildrunner, this can get Sorcerer 19/Favored Soul 18 for some double 9s.

Holt Warden: I love this class, however, it takes a huge hit to sorcerer casting. Leads to S1/FS2/MT4/HW 3/AH10 for Favored Soul 18/Sorcerer 15

The use of bloodlines, mentioned above can improve some of these builds. The way they work is vague enough for me that I prefer to avoid them.

Using spirit folk to get double 9's really seems to be the way to go.