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Zeta Kai
2007-02-19, 10:14 PM
Has anyone come up with any decent rules for training animals? I don't like the Handle Animal skill's training rule in the PBH, & I think I have a plan to fix it. I just wanted to know if anyone knows of something well done that's already out there, so I don't reinvent the wheel any further.

Zeta Kai
2007-02-20, 05:52 AM
Really? Nothing? I guess I'll just have to finish cooking it up myself. I'll post my results after a little more polish. Maybe later today.

Zeta Kai
2007-02-20, 11:33 AM
Alright, I don't know my tables yet, but here goes:

Training an Animal
Training an animal to perform tricks, stunts, or other complex actions on command is a long, involved process, requiring that the trainer form a bond with the animal. Bonding with an animal involves making a series of successful Handle Animal checks. A wild animal nearly always starts out as Wild, whereas a newborn baby starts as Feral (in the presence of people), & a pet starts as Tame.
For every ten (10) successful Handle Animal checks (DC15 - the creature’s Int + the number of tricks it already knows), the animal progresses up one step toward Soul Mate. Only one Handle Animal check can be made per day. If a Handle Animal check fails by 5 or less, than no progress is made that day, but no penalty to further bonding is taken. However, if the check fails by 6 or more, than all previous successes are negated, the animal regresses to the previous step, & the bonding must begin again.
An animal can be trained to perform one trick on a successful Handle Animal check (DC18 - the creature’s Int). Once the trick has been taught to the animal, it can be performed with a successful Trick roll. Roll the indicated die; if the roll is equal to or greater than the skill value (see below), than the animal will perform the trick. The better trained the animal, the better the dice one can roll.
A trainer with the Animal Empathy class feature, 5 ranks in Diplomacy or 5 ranks in Intimidate can add a +2 synergy bonus to their Handle Animal checks. These bonuses do not stack with each other.

Status of Animal: Wild
Maximum # of Tricks: 1
Dice of Trick Roll: 1d2
Example: wild animal unaccustomed to people; chaotic animal companions

Status of Animal: Feral
Maximum # of Tricks: 2
Dice of Trick Roll: 1d4
Example: wild animal accustomed to people; newborn babies; lawful animal companions; chaotic familiars

Status of Animal: Tame
Maximum # of Tricks: 4
Dice of Trick Roll: 1d6
Example: house pets; lawful familiars; chaotic mounts

Status of Animal: Trained
Maximum # of Tricks: 6
Dice of Trick Roll: 1d8
Example: trained house pets; lawful mounts

Status of Animal: Well Trained
Maximum # of Tricks: 8
Dice of Trick Roll: 1d10
Example: trained guard dogs

Status of Animal: Bonded
Maximum # of Tricks: 12
Dice of Trick Roll: 1d12
Example: Cringer (of He-Man); Hedwig (of Harry Potter)

Status of Animal: Soul Mate
Maximum # of Tricks: 16
Dice of Trick Roll: 1d20
Example: life-long deep emotional bond; near-psychic link

Tricks that an animal can learn (& their respective skill value):
• 2 Attack (natural)
• 2 Down
• 2 Stay
• 3 Defend
• 3 Perform (speak)
• 3 Come
• 4 Heel
• 4 Protect
• 4 Guard
• 5 Perform (sit up)
• 5 Jump
• 5 Seek
• 6 Fetch
• 6 Perform (play dead)
• 6 Swim
• 7 Dive
• 7 Perform (roll over)
• 7 Track
• 8 Attack (unnatural)

Example #1: A trainer with 3 ranks in Handle Animal, Kela, has bonded with a shocker lizard, Sparky (Int 2), to the point where Sparky is Tame. Kela then bonds with Sparky over the next 7 days, succeeding by rolling more than 10 each time. On the eighth day, Kela rolls a 9. She fails, but no progress is lost toward reaching Trained. On the ninth day, however, Kela rolls a 2. Even with Kela’s 3 ranks in Handle Animal, that roll counts as a 5, which is more than 6 below what was required for a successful check, then all progress at bonding is lost, Sparky regresses back to Tame, & the bonding to reach Trained must start over.

Example #2: Kela has trained Sparky to be Well Trained, & has taught him 5 tricks. They are walking through the woods, & Sparky hears something ahead, & begins to run off. Kela orders him to Heel, a trick value of 4. Kela rolls a d10, & gets a 6. Sparky heels, & they cautiously investigate. They come upon a waiting ghoul, who begins to attack. Kela commands Sparky to Attack (unnatural), a trick value of 8. Kela again rolls a d10, & gets a 7. Sparky does not attack the undead creature.

Design Notes: These rules were designed in such a way as to provide a structured set of skill checks to train & teach animals. The rules as written in the PHB (under the Handle Animal skill) are loosely defined & vague, making simple & proper very difficult to adjudicate. Training an animal, in my mind, should use the Handle Animal skill, but the rules for doing so are both overly complex & under-developed.
The bonding process, as described above, is designed to slowly create a link between the character & the creature, forcing the player to be involved in the rolls, & thereby (hopefully) involve the player in the role-playing of the procedure. Animals, & both wild & domestic, start out difficult to train, becoming easier as the creature bonds to the trainer & the trainer gains ranks in the Handle Animal skill. Like the rewritten Diplomacy rules by Rich Burlew (of which I am a fan), these training rules are geared towards those who have spent the maximum number of ranks in the Handle Animal skill, which I believe maintains balance as well as rewards players who invest heavily in the skill.
The rules prevent players from making only one or two rolls, & then saying “Okay, two months later, my hawk can now play dead, fetch, & will attack zombie on command.” They may also lessen the tendency of players to ignore their familiars, mounts, & pets until their skills are needed (Vaarsuvius, I’m looking at you).
The limitation of only 1 Handle Animal check per day is deliberate. This slows down the bonding to a daily crawl, reflecting the glacial progress one can reasonable expect when dealing with animals (I speak from experience). Although the progress is faster than the RAW, they are still slow enough that instant training isn’t feasible.

So, what do you guys think? PEACH.

Maerok
2007-02-20, 11:41 AM
It looks pretty good, and I like it. It's more active than the original rules and would seem to take less time (or seem like it takes less time) because there are different stages. It shows a nice progression and seems pretty complete with a large list of tricks and even some examples. Though if there are any abstract situations where something might be called into question, you should make a few examples of those cases. (Opposed Handle Animal checks, etc.)

Glooble Glistencrist
2007-02-20, 02:17 PM
For the most part this looks really good, loads bettetr than the original system. As a DM I've seen that system abused, so I know what you mean. Just one nitpick - Animal Empathy is a class feature in 3.5, not a skill. You can't have ranks in it.
How does this apply to familiars, Mounts and Animal Companions? Do they start out as Soul Mates? Is it based on class level? Just wondering.

cferejohn
2007-02-20, 04:14 PM
Pretty cool. That's an awful lot of rolling though, which means one of the following scenarios:

*You are training the animal during "down time", in which case, you are just sitting there rolling 50+ times with the DM. Just seems a little, I don't know, dull.

*You are training the animal as you are adventuring, which means you need to keep careful records of all the rolls you have made, remember what your notes mean the next time you play (which with some of my groups can be several weeks or even months).

If you want to spend this kind of time on animal training though, I think this is a good system. I like the different levels of bonding. I might find a way to get up the tree with fewer rolls though.

Zeta Kai
2007-02-20, 10:48 PM
For the most part this looks really good, loads bettetr than the original system. As a DM I've seen that system abused, so I know what you mean. Just one nitpick - Animal Empathy is a class feature in 3.5, not a skill. You can't have ranks in it.
How does this apply to familiars, Mounts and Animal Companions? Do they start out as Soul Mates? Is it based on class level? Just wondering.

Ooh, yeah. Sorry, I'm still using 3.0 core books. The 3.5 books are still on my wish list.

But you're right, AE is an exclusive class feature now, but one should still be able to use it for a synergy bonus, regardless. Only the rank requirement of AE would have to be eliminated. I'll edit that if possible.

I would say that nothing should start out as a Soul Mate (because, of course, then there's no room for advancement, & DnD is all about advancing characters). I'd say animal companion start out as Wild or Feral, & progress from there. Familiars should start out as Feral or Tame. Lastly, mounts should start out as Tame or Trained. These are merely starting values; they seem like logical places to start the bonding process, & leave room for improvement. Remember, this is as much an animal bonding ruleset as an animal training ruleset. Any relationship begins with the two parties being strangers.

Zeta Kai
2007-02-21, 07:13 PM
Actually, now that I think about it, ANY skill can be modified to work in the same manner as the Animal Training ruleset.

As a character learns to perform a skill with greater proficiency, then they get a larger die to roll (all the way up to d20 or d%). The individual Actions that use a skill (similar to Tricks, as seen above) would have a static value. Roll the indicated die; if the roll is equal to or greater than the Action value (see below), than the character successfully performs the Action.

This may, in fact, be the basis for an entirely new rules system; something rather unlike D&D. More like a White Wolf game, but with variable dice. What do you think?

Zeta Kai
2007-02-21, 09:57 PM
In regards to the frequent rolling, I propose a variant in which only 5 Handle Animal checks are required to reach the next bonding step; however only one Handle Animal check can be made per week (in game, of course). This reduces the rolls by about half for the bonding, & thereby (statistically speaking) reduces the chance to botch a roll.

I feel I should also explicitly state that the bonding is specific to the character making the Handle Animal checks to bond with the animal. Although Kela & Sparky may become Soul Mates, Sparky is still considered a Wild animal (literally) to Kela's friends, family, teammates, etc. Sparky may now know how to attack unnatural creatures, but Kela would be the only who could get him to actually do it.

Ivius
2007-02-21, 10:17 PM
Pretty good. I never saw the training process broken, but this system appears to be more fluid. But I think that the ranks should be changed to reflect how the animal views you, no how tame it is. Perhaps: Indifferent, Acquaintance, Friend, Ally, Companion, Bonded, Soul Mate or something similar. A wolf might defend it's Druid to the death, but it still might not be tame.

Myatar_Panwar
2007-02-21, 11:44 PM
Seems more character friendly and interactive. Me likey.

Zeta Kai
2007-02-22, 12:29 PM
Pretty good. I never saw the training process broken, but this system appears to be more fluid. But I think that the ranks should be changed to reflect how the animal views you, no how tame it is. Perhaps: Indifferent, Acquaintance, Friend, Ally, Companion, Bonded, Soul Mate or something similar. A wolf might defend it's Druid to the death, but it still might not be tame.

You have a good point, but this is specifically for the bonding that takes place during training. An animal that you've bonded with to the point where you've trained them to fetch, perform, guard, seek, dive, swim, & attack walking corpses can hardly be considered Wild anymore. They may only do those tricks for you, & they may still function in the wilderness alone, but regardless of their background, once you've taught an animal to do all that on command (& consistently), then they are Trained/Tame.

Fax Celestis
2007-02-22, 01:35 PM
You might be interested in the Animal Trainer (http://corporation.walagata.com/fax/wiki/index.php/Animal_Trainer) base class I came up with.

Zeta Kai
2007-02-23, 11:26 AM
That's a rather good class, Fax; very well thought out & very well balanced considering its niche. I wonder if it could be reworked to utilize my Animal Training rules?

Fax Celestis
2007-02-23, 11:32 AM
That's a rather good class, Fax; very well thought out & very well balanced considering its niche. I wonder if it could be reworked to utilize my Animal Training rules?

Feel free to go ahead.