Couldn't Thor

[bravelove]

Just use lightning to disrupt the casting?

[veti]

Just use lightning to disrupt the casting?

The Domain Agreement requires Thor to "allow followers of other gods limited and well-defined access" to the weather.

That would come under the heading of "not allowing" the above.

[ORione]

Probably not, because that would save the good guys a lot of trouble (http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq7).

[factotum]

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the other agreements between the Gods is that they can't directly affect each other's clerics--in which case, the only way to stop HPoH casting would be to destroy the Mechane entirely, and that would result in a lot of innocent deaths.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Just use lightning to disrupt the casting?

I think that would be breaking the Domain Accord, since he is still preventing the High Priest of Hel from casting that spell.

I also think that what factotum says would make sense and that such an agreement would help to avoid war among the gods. Who knows, maybe that will be our next theological lesson from the strip. :smalltongue:

[2xMachina]

Thor could just Call Lightning on a clear day to prove his displeasure.

Doesn't need to hit jack.

Durkula can cast whatever he wants. No spell can prevent lightning strikes from Call Lightning (except anti-magic field)

[Keltest]

I think that would be breaking the Domain Accord, since he is still preventing the High Priest of Hel from casting that spell.

I also think that what factotum says would make sense and that such an agreement would help to avoid war among the gods. Who knows, maybe that will be our next theological lesson from the strip. :smalltongue:

Im a bit skeptical of that. If Thor launches every lightning bolt in the north, then he would hit a non-Thor cleric by chance if for no other reason at some point. If he doesn't force the lightning to act contrary to its nature, he could probably get away with it.

[TurtlesAWD]

Probably not, because that would save the good guys a lot of trouble (http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq7).

It's interesting reading an old faq like this because it's often reflective of how the way we talk about and refer to the internet has changed over the past decade, but it is a universal and timeless truth that stories will move at the speed and in the direction that they need to in order to continue being a story.

[Reddish Mage]

Shouldn't this post read "Didn't Thor?" There was already a lightning bolt that bypassed a lightning rod and nearly took out the Mechane's engine. Is that a coincidence?

IF Thor can take aim at other deities priests or their surroundings, the question then becomes? Why not again?

[orrion]

IF Thor can take aim at other deities priests or their surroundings, the question then becomes? Why not again?

Yep, permanent rain storms incoming.

[King of Nowhere]

Well, I guess there are limits to how much thor can intervene. deities on ootsworld seem to have all sort of fine agreement to settle disputes. it's a bit like international law nowadays, I'd say. Or it would be if every sinlge nation had nukes (which in this fantasy setting would mean release of the snarl or creation of a new snarl).

[TurtlesAWD]

Shouldn't this post read "Didn't Thor?" There was already a lightning bolt that bypassed a lightning rod and nearly took out the Mechane's engine. Is that a coincidence?

IF Thor can take aim at other deities priests or their surroundings, the question then becomes? Why not again?

This assumes that Thor's only motive in the storm and throwing that lightning bolt was an attack on the HPoH. More than likely, it's to get the party to actually go to the dwarven lands since they were otherwise going to fly right on past it. That's why the engine was targeted, in my opinion. We also know, due to prophecy, that Durkon will be going home posthumously, meaning either as a vampire or completely dead. Chances are he'll be going as a vampire which means it has to be before the vampire Durkon plot gets resolved.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Im a bit skeptical of that. If Thor launches every lightning bolt in the north, then he would hit a non-Thor cleric by chance if for no other reason at some point. If he doesn't force the lightning to act contrary to its nature, he could probably get away with it.

If Thor isn't really involved in the storm, then it doesn't really count as directly affecting the Cleric. I doubt that he launches every single lightning bolt; most storms are naturally occurring with very few being a result of his wrath

[137beth]

Directly attacking another god's cleric would probably break an agreement. Otherwise all duels between clerics would be decided by whose deity struck faster, not which cleric had better spells.

[Reddish Mage]

This assumes that Thor's only motive in the storm and throwing that lightning bolt was an attack on the HPoH. More than likely, it's to get the party to actually go to the dwarven lands since they were otherwise going to fly right on past it. That's why the engine was targeted, in my opinion. We also know, due to prophecy, that Durkon will be going home posthumously, meaning either as a vampire or completely dead. Chances are he'll be going as a vampire which means it has to be before the vampire Durkon plot gets resolved.

Why would Thor want to force the OOTS to go to the Dwavern lands? We know they are going to go there, and there's very strong evidence that its going to happen now and there entourage is going to include the HPOH. WE KNOW about the prophecy that Durkon will return and be bringing Death and Destruction (Rich has already said the domains of the HPOH are Death and Destruction). However, note that it is a prophecy of ODIN, which Thor may or may not even be aware of and that the prophecy doesn't sound like its a favorable one to the dwarves or even Thor.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

...(Rich has already said the domains of the HPOH are Death and Destruction)...

Once again, where did he say this?

[Killer Angel]

Thor gave a huge clue to the Order, about the current "condition" of Durkula. Compare Durkula's reaction to this storm, to this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0201.html) one, by the real Durkon.

It is a totally different behaviour, and it's not Thor's fault if Roy & c. don't see the obvious.

[TurtlesAWD]

Why would Thor want to force the OOTS to go to the Dwavern lands? We know they are going to go there, and there's very strong evidence that its going to happen now and there entourage is going to include the HPOH. WE KNOW about the prophecy that Durkon will return and be bringing Death and Destruction (Rich has already said the domains of the HPOH are Death and Destruction). However, note that it is a prophecy of ODIN, which Thor may or may not even be aware of and that the prophecy doesn't sound like its a favorable one to the dwarves or even Thor.

Prior to the Mechane being damaged and as of strip 937, we know that the order was planning to bypass the dwarven lands, because their destination is much further north. As for why Thor would want them to go there, he could be hoping there's a greater chance the HPoH will be exposed in the dwarven lands than at the north pole. He may think that if the HPoH gets to the gate before being exposed, it may be too late to do anything about it, which could only be problematic for anyone who doesn't want to see one evil god or another gain control over them. He could also be acting as an instrument of fate to make sure that the various prophecies about Durkon come to pass.

Although gods are powerful, in mythology they are still beholden to fate. Cronos knew he was fated to be overthrown by one of his children, and so he would eat them all after they were born, but this did not stop Zeus from doing exactly what was foretold. Likewise for the nordic gods, Ragnarok is an eventual battle which they cannot stop, because it's fated to occur. These are examples from mythology rather than fiction so they don't necessarily need to apply to Thor in this comic, but the pantheons of Order of the Stick are based on real world mythology so I think we can pick up indications for how they work metaphysically from there, unless directly contradicted by something in comic.

[factotum]

Rich has already said the domains of the HPOH are Death and Destruction

While I agree that the Order were already on their way to Dwarven lands and thus had no prospect of going past it (especially since it's only half an hour since they passed into Thor's airspace, so they're thus a very long away from getting there), Rich has never said that. It's one of the most commonly accepted fan theories, but it certainly doesn't have Word of God backing it up.

[Kareasint]

Once again, where did he say this?

On the Origins of PCs (Book 0). This is why Durkon was exiled from the Dwarven Kingdom.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

On the Origins of PCs (Book 0). This is why Durkon was exiled from the Dwarven Kingdom.

They definitely did not say that his domains were Death and Destruction. They said that he would bring death and destruction.

[ChristianSt]

On the Origins of PCs (Book 0). This is why Durkon was exiled from the Dwarven Kingdom.


No - the prophecy for that Durkon got exiled from the Dwarven lands was "When next he returns home, he will bring death and destruction for us all."
This doesn't - in any way - specify that he has those two domains (especially since they aren't capitalized). Yes, one common theory, since Durkon died, was that this could be his domains, but this is pure speculation (though since it is a pretty reasonable speculation, and not some epileptic tree wild mass guessing thing as happens here quite often, the word speculation seems rather harsh here).


In short: Stop playing telephone game.

[factotum]

They definitely did not say that his domains were Death and Destruction. They said that he would bring death and destruction.

...which people on the forums keep trying to twist into "well, that obviously means he'll have Death and Destruction domains" rather than "a lot of dwarves and their property are going to get totalled soon". I have no idea why they're doing that, but there it is.

[Keltest]

...which people on the forums keep trying to twist into "well, that obviously means he'll have Death and Destruction domains" rather than "a lot of dwarves and their property are going to get totalled soon". I have no idea why they're doing that, but there it is.

Because they don't want a bunch of dwarves and their property to get totaled. That would almost require that the bad guy wins this book, and nobody wants that.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

...which people on the forums keep trying to twist into "well, that obviously means he'll have Death and Destruction domains" rather than "a lot of dwarves and their property are going to get totalled soon". I have no idea why they're doing that, but there it is.

I'm aware of this. What I am trying to figure is why people are claiming that Word of Giant defends their conclusions.

[Keltest]

I'm aware of this. What I am trying to figure is why people are claiming that Word of Giant defends their conclusions.

Id imagine its a sort of self perpetuating myth. People hear the Giant said it, but don't see the actual quote. They assume that he really did say it, and pass the message along.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Id imagine its a sort of self perpetuating myth. People hear the Giant said it, but don't see the actual quote. They assume that he really did say it, and pass the message along.
Sort of like an internet Telephone game, I guess.

[Keltest]

Sort of like an internet Telephone game, I guess.

Exactly. Only instead of the message changing, the context is lost.

[evileeyore]

I'm aware of this. What I am trying to figure is why people are claiming that Word of Giant defends their conclusions.
Because they are dumb.

[CaDzilla]

...which people on the forums keep trying to twist into "well, that obviously means he'll have Death and Destruction domains" rather than "a lot of dwarves and their property are going to get totalled soon". I have no idea why they're doing that, but there it is.

Could be both, or whatever the gods' need as tenuous proof for their prophecies working.

[Kish]

I really hoped, for a little while, that it would turn out to be that benign--even while I never thought it was terribly likely. But really, that ship sailed and sank with the revelation that the mind driving Durkon's body currently is malevolent; there's no reason to keep championing it.

[Reddish Mage]

Id imagine its a sort of self perpetuating myth. People hear the Giant said it, but don't see the actual quote. They assume that he really did say it, and pass the message along.

I could have swore I saved an actual quote but it must have been regarding Malack, since the geekery thread has his domains pegged not Durkula's and references a quote.

[Kish]

Rich never said what Malack's domains are either.

In the quote the Class and Level Geekery thread references, he calls Malack a "cleric of Death and Destruction." This is nothing more and nothing less than what Malack established when he said Nergal was the God of Death and Destruction. It is equally true for a cleric of Nergal who chooses the domains Death and Destruction, and for one who chooses the domains Law and Evil.