Best way to get Greater Invisibility as a Rogue

[13ones]

Afternoon Gents and Ladies.

Got a question for you. I'm looking at Rogues and I'm trying to figure out the best way to get a consistent Greater Invisibility without the need to tug on my Wizard/Sorcerer/Summoner robes and ask if I can have it after they finish casting haste or whatever.

The simple solution is to take a ninja and be done with it. But since the game I'm being invited to has a GM who is...shall we say, trap and magic trap happy it'd be in my best interest to have trapfiniding and trapsense.

My thought on this was to basically pump up my UMD and in the first round either use a Summoner scroll or wand of Greater Invisiblity (since it's 3rd level as opposed to the Wizard/Sorcerer 4th level) and then just go from there.

I know I could generally get sneak attacks off by flanking with my buddies anyways but I'd rather have the option just in case I don't have any buddies to flank with.

[NightbringerGGZ]

You can pick up the Ki Pool talent followed by Vanishing Trick and Invisible Blade, but you'll have a very limited Ki Pool compared to a Ninja. Alternatively, you can go Ninja and use traits and talents to pick up the most important aspects of Trapfinding and Trap Sense. The Trap Finder trait gives you a +1 bonus to Disable Device and lets you disarm magical traps. Pick up the Trap Spotter talent and you get a perception check whenever you move close to a trap you haven't seen.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Swordsage gets access to the Cloak of Deception maneuver. It also adds a ton of other stuff that makes it good as a dip for a rogue.
Monk 2 gets access to the Invisible Fist ACF (EoE). 1 round of Greater Invisibility as an immediate action with a 3 round recharge time but no limit on daily uses.

If all you want is Sneak Attack, making opponents flat-footed (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12405) is also an option.

[MightyPirate]

Rogues can't get invisible blade actually, that's a master trick and not a ninja trick. It would be a very reasonable house rule if they meet the level requirement.

You could also be a summoner or synthesist. The skilled evolution on Perception and Disable device is a force to be reckoned with.

I might ditch invisibility entirely for some fog cutting lenses and either a source of obscuring mist or the smokebomb ninja trick if you go with a ninja and the trap finding trait. It kind of depends on how often you'll find yourself without flanking but the lenses give some serious utility all on their own and by the time you could get invisible blade they're pretty affordable. Also there's loads of enemies that can see invisible foes, seeing through fog is a somewhat less common ability.

[13ones]

Sadly traits are banned for this game as the gm likes to say "Everyone always picks the same traits" Which for casters and certain other classes is pretty much always true. Which is a shame because if I could pick traits I'd just grab a ninja anyways and fluff it as a rogue with ninja training.

The idea of fogcutting lenses is a pretty neat idea. Would using a smoke stick be just as effective, or would it be better to grab a Ki pool and the smoke-bomb? Cause if I'm picking up a ki-pool I may as well just go with a ninja, since the rogue doesn't get the option to spend a ki-point for an extra attack.

[137beth]

Archeologist Bard can just cast greater invisibility, and gets Trap Sense as an archetype feature. That could be your best bet.

[FabulousFizban]

if you only want the invisibility for sneak attack, just buy mistmail and be done with it. Yes it is once a day. However, while the effect is the same as obscuring mist, mistmail - unlike say... a ring of invisibility - does not state that the armor ability functions as the spell. It just has the same effect. This means that the duration is unlimited, unlike the aformentioned ring. So, as long as nothing dissipates the armor, the effect will last all day.

Mistmail by the way grants concealment, and as long as you have concealment you can make stealth checks and sneak attack (since the opponent is denied their dex against you), no flanking required.

A wand could make a good backup in case the armor does get wind walled or something. Better yet (by which I mean cheaper yet) buy a scroll and give it to the wizard, and ask for his help if you need it.

[MightyPirate]

Smoke stick'll do the job and if traits are off the table I'd stay away from ninja or even picking up ninja tricks with your rogue talents. It's not worth it.

Mistmail is cool but I don't know that you retain the ac bonus when it's transformed. You obviously can't wear other armor and that hurts on one so squishy. If it doesn't count as worn when transformed then you just pick up extra fog-cutting lenses for the monk and laugh.

Smokesticks and scrolls of obscuring mist are cheap and effective, useful together too. Try to set up a death zone before combat whenever possible, enemies should be more likely to ignore the mist if they don't realize it's part of your tactics. That and losing an action on setting up sneak attack is likely something you won't live through often.

[13ones]

I've never really don't a Rogue type character before so I'm trying to figure it all out. As far as marshal goes I've done Barbarians and Rangers and both of those don't really require the sort of positioning that Rogues do.

So far the idea seems to be smokesticks and smoke bombs, scrolls of mist, and other items until I can afford or find a wand of greater invisibility. Or totally cop out and roll a Ninja.

[Psyren]

Just be a ninja - even if you can't get the trait, Trapfinding is not necessary in PF. All the smokestick stuff will still work (or you can even just use your smoke bombs trick) until you get Invisible Blade later.

You can also be an Ifrit (which is a good ninja race anyway) and pick up the Firesight feat.

[MightyPirate]

I gotta second Ifrit, even if you don't go ninja the wildfire heart alternate trait is still stellar for a rogue. Firesight won't penetrate mist but that's what smokesticks are for (on their own or as a component.) It frees up your eye slot for Eyes of the Eagle too which you'll probably need if you take that wisdom hit.

Sad to say but trap finding and trap sense probably aren't enough of a bump most of the time. The good news is the last AP I ran we found our ninja successful at trapping duty and locked door picking more often than not. If you have trouble with it you might get a familiar and hit it with the Evolved Familiar feat. Plus 8 to a skill is nothing to sneeze at and it stacks with pretty much everything.

[Spore]

You could consider blinding your enemy or casting (Deeper) Darkness als Drow/Tiefling with the appropriate feats.

[13ones]

Actually Tiefling was an idea, simply because of the Blinding Sneak Attack feat they can take. I'll need to see if my gm would allow it however.

[Serafina]

Take a single level in one of the following to gain the ability to disarm magical traps (traits would be easier, but since they aren't allowed some multiclassing is required), then just take Ninja levels.

Sandman Bard (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/sandman): Charisma-based arcane spellcasting. Fits a charismatic ninja quite well.
Cryptbreaker Alchemist: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo---alchemist-archetypes/crypt-breaker) Limited spellcasting, but the draught is useful for a sneaky character.
Combine Vivisectionist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo---alchemist-archetypes/vivisectionist) with Trap Breaker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo---alchemist-archetypes/trap-breaker-alchemist-archetype) Alchemist and it'll stack with your Ninja levels for sneak attack.
Trapper Ranger: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/trapper) Trap Finding and tracking. You can combine this with any ranger archetype you want. Guide (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/guide)would be great if you play an Assassin
Seeker Oracle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/archetypes/paizo---oracle-archetypes/seeker) woudl burden you with an Oracles Curs, but also give you a revelation which can be quite useful (such as those that allow you to roll twice for initiative).
Seeker Sorcerer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo---sorcerer-archetypes/seeker) doesn't have that drawback, though you'd be somewhat hindered when using the spells since they are arcane. You can gain a familiar either via bloodline or tattooed sorcerer.