Warblade planning?

[charlesk]

The book makes it seem like I am free to just pick from any of the 5 different disciplines. But because the higher-level ones require you to have lower-level ones already, that's not really true, is it? Should I be concentrating in only, say, 2 disciplines, and choosing only from among them?

I'm just trying to decide what to do at level 1. Long term, Diamond Mind is likely to be my "go-to" discipline but I'm not too hot on the choices I can take there at level 1. Yet if I get stuff in say, Stone Dragon, that will make it harder for me to get higher-level Diamond Mind goodies, yes?

Thanks. :)

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Keep in mind that some maneuvers don't have the same prerequisites. The mountain hammer line in stone dragon, for instance, can be picked up on a whim.

Moment of Perfect Mind is one of the best 1st level maneuvers in the book, so I'd pick that up. In general the warblade gives you enough maneuvers known to have one to two primary schools and 2 splashes. If I focus on, say, Iron Heart and White Raven, I'll still have enough for Moment of Perfect Mind, [descriptor] Mountain Hammer, and maybe even Sudden Leap.

[Ikeren]

http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1146801

CTRL + F = Maneuvers Organized by # of Pre-Reqs, Alphabetized, School, & Level


It'll help you plan a progression immensly. Decide which maneuvers you want at each level, check if it works, tweak here or there.

[charlesk]

Thanks much!

This is going to be a Psion gestalt (I'm eating a +1 LA right now on that side) so Diamond Mind is going to be fun.

I know a lot of folks like White Raven. It doesn't seem that exciting to me yet but seems like the sort of thing that you'd see the value of it more once it is in action.

While I "have you on the line", any suggestions on skills? I have a ton of them at first level (again, Psion gestalt) and have already maxed Balance, Concentration, Intimidate and Jump. Not sure if any of the other class skills are worth taking, or if I should spend my remaining 16 points on cross-class stuff to support either the warblade or psion sides.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Are you averse to/disallowed from multiclassing within the gestalt?

If you're going kineticist, ask your DM about how Control Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlBody.htm) works. If it works well (i.e. various bonuses do indeed apply), you can use it on yourself, then manifest Solicit Psicrystal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/solicitPsicrystal.htm) so your psicrystal can maintain concentration on Control Body. This way you can melee while you manifest. INT also replaces DEX for AC and STR for attack and damage. Consider throwing in other INT-to-X stuff from this thread (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4369.0) (I'd link to the original GitP thread but the tables died in the change-over).

If you're going Egoist, Metamorphosis is wonderful. Focus on maneuvers that work well with forms that you're going to take.

White Raven's utility is proportional to the number of melee characters in your group. If it's just you, pick up enough for White Raven Tactics and get out. If everyone's going melee, definitely pick up the charging stance and a lot of the "allies get to do X" stuff.

[Adverb]

The three must-have maneuvers are White Raven Tactics, Iron Heart Surge, and Moment of Perfect Mind. Mountain Hammer's good, finding room to get the prereqs for later versions of it is tough as a Warblade.

[charlesk]

Thanks!

(Moment of Perfect Mind a bit less essential with a Psion on the other side.)

[Amphetryon]

Thanks!

(Moment of Perfect Mind a bit less essential with a Psion on the other side.)

The benefit of replacing a good Save with a good Concentration check, is that Concentration checks don't auto-fail on a Natural 1, while Saves do.

[charlesk]

Good point. And my Conc is +8 at level 1.

Can anyone help me with what to do with my skills? I'm gestalting and taking the LA on the psion side, but still have 32 skill points. I put 4 in each of Balance, Concentration and Jump, but that leaves me 20 and I'm not sure what is best to do with them. I don't know if Intimidate or Martial Lore are worth it, or should I go cross-class for some things that will benefit the Psion side?

[Jeff the Green]

LA on the psion side? :smallconfused: you're better off putting it on Warblade because it'll still get 1/2 IL.

Anyway, have you considered Knowledge Devotion? If so, get a point in each of the creature Knowledges and take the Collector of Stories skill trick if your DM says it applies. Even if not, I'd put some into various Knowledges, particularly ones not covered by other party members.

Absolutely get Psicraft, as it'll let you manifest from power stones (i.e. use the power contained at your ML and DC and without using it up). UPD would be nice too, but it won't be a class skill for Psion either. A rank in Autohypnosis is de riguer for most classes with spare points.

Are you planning on getting a psicrystal? It's not a bad idea for +3 Concentration or +2 initiative, and with a Warblade's HD and all the buffs you can share with it it's potentially a decent combatant,

[charlesk]

The LA didn't make sense either way but the tie-breaker was starting with 8 more HP at level 1. I've been told I will be able to buy it off at some point.

I may try to convince my DM to let me take psion skills at full (not cross-class) at level 1.

Thanks.

[Red Fel]

Good point. And my Conc is +8 at level 1.

Can anyone help me with what to do with my skills? I'm gestalting and taking the LA on the psion side, but still have 32 skill points. I put 4 in each of Balance, Concentration and Jump, but that leaves me 20 and I'm not sure what is best to do with them. I don't know if Intimidate or Martial Lore are worth it, or should I go cross-class for some things that will benefit the Psion side?

Intimidate is generally a "focus or forget it" skill - either you have a very specific goal with Intimidate, and intend to focus points on it, or it's just not worth it. For example, if you want to pull tricks like Never Outnumbered, and have a way of quickly and effectively stacking demoralization, Intimidate can be great non-magical battlefield control. But if not, skip it. Martial Lore is an absolute "forget it" - it's just worthless. "Roll Martial Lore. Okay, that sword-to-the-face you just received? It was Elder Mountain Hammer." Really helpful.

Frankly, I think you've got your key skills there. Balance is good in general (people underestimate the power of Grease), particularly when you realize that Balance is actually a key skill for two disciplines, Iron Heart and Stone Dragon, and that Warblades get both. Concentration is obviously mandatory for a caster, and doubly useful when Diamond Mind is involved. And Jump is good for certain Tiger Claw maneuvers. Frankly, despite Diplomacy being White Raven's key skill, the discipline never actually involves Diplomacy checks, so just dump that.

If in doubt, grab some generally-useful skills, like Climb, Use Rope, or the like. Alternatively, if you have a feat open, consider taking Knowledge Devotion (fitting for a smart-fighter-type gestalted with a freaking psychic) and dump some points into your Knowledge checks. That'll give you some healthy boosts in terms of damage.

[Jeff the Green]

The LA didn't make sense either way but the tie-breaker was starting with 8 more HP at level 1. I've been told I will be able to buy it off at some point.

I may try to convince my DM to let me take psion skills at full (not cross-class) at level 1.

Thanks.

One nice thing about LA buy off in gestalt is that you can do it a level early. Since at class level 3 you have ECL 3 instead of ECL 4, you can buy off immediately and save 1000 XP. Basically you should go from Warblade 3//LA 1/Psion 2 to Warblade 3//Psion 3 at the cost of 2000 XP.

If you don't succeed in letting you buy them at full, try to convince him to let you increase them to full once you buy the LA off. Since you're effectively changing your first level from Warblade to Warblade//Psion, your 1st level would have both classes' skills.

Edit:


Intimidate is generally a "focus or forget it" skill

While generally true, ToB offers a new use for it. As long as you can beat your average intelligent opponent and a DC 15 check, you can give some decent debuffs to an enemy at the beginning of battle for free.

[Red Fel]

While generally true, ToB offers a new use for it. As long as you can beat your average intelligent opponent and a DC 15 check, you can give some decent debuffs to an enemy at the beginning of battle for free.

That is true. The Duel of Wills mechanic is useful. But consider it. If the enemy submits, he takes a penalty to initiative and to rolls against you in the first round. Pretty good. If he ignores, you can make a DC 15 Intimidate check to gain +1 to attacks against him for one round. Also good. But if he challenges, you'd better hope your Intimidate is better than his, or else you'll be taking penalties.

And that's the wager. If none of your enemies accept the challenge, you get a basically free buff or debuff. DC 15 is easy to beat. Since the average roll on 1d20 is 10.5, putting 4-5 ranks in Intimidate ensures you'll be hitting that target as often as not. But if your enemies accept the challenge, it's not the sort of thing you want to drop one or two points in as an afterthought - it becomes a focus, something in which you're willing to dump more substantial points to receive a substantial benefit.

Note also that if you do want to use the Duel of Wills mechanic - and frankly, I don't think it's terribly worth it - you can take Unnerving Calm and use Concentration instead of Intimidate.

[Jeff the Green]

That is true. The Duel of Wills mechanic is useful. But consider it. If the enemy submits, he takes a penalty to initiative and to rolls against you in the first round. Pretty good. If he ignores, you can make a DC 15 Intimidate check to gain +1 to attacks against him for one round. Also good. But if he challenges, you'd better hope your Intimidate is better than his, or else you'll be taking penalties.

And that's the wager. If none of your enemies accept the challenge, you get a basically free buff or debuff. DC 15 is easy to beat. Since the average roll on 1d20 is 10.5, putting 4-5 ranks in Intimidate ensures you'll be hitting that target as often as not. But if your enemies accept the challenge, it's not the sort of thing you want to drop one or two points in as an afterthought - it becomes a focus, something in which you're willing to dump more substantial points to receive a substantial benefit.

Note also that if you do want to use the Duel of Wills mechanic - and frankly, I don't think it's terribly worth it - you can take Unnerving Calm and use Concentration instead of Intimidate.

I wouldn't really consider putting max ranks in a skill "focusing" on it, especially for an Int-based character with a 4-skill point class. Focusing would be using feats, items, and class features to improve it.

And in any case, you should choose your targets carefully. Intimidate the ones that are going to have a penalty (e.g. smaller than you) or are unlikely to have ranks (e.g. the skinny guy in the back wearing robes).

[charlesk]

Thanks for the advice.

I think I'm going to request to use the Complete Psionic progression rules. It's RAW so he shouldn't object, and just basically defers many of the half-giant benefits to second level so I can be a proper gestalt at level 1. That will let me properly put points into both warblade and psion skills.

[Adverb]

LA on the psion side? :smallconfused: you're better off putting it on Warblade because it'll still get 1/2 IL.

This is not true. Class levels, yes. Racial HD, yes. LA... maybe, if you then count the psion levels, but that's cheesy even for gestalt.

[Jeff the Green]

This is not true. Class levels, yes. Racial HD, yes. LA... maybe, if you then count the psion levels, but that's cheesy even for gestalt.

It's pretty straightforward. For any given initiator class you gain 0.5 IL per non-initiator class level. You progress things like casting (e.g. IL) at the faster rate. Thus if you're a Psion 2//LA 1/Warblade 1 you get 1 IL from the Psion//Warblade level and 1/2 for the Psion//LA level.

It's not at all cheesy, just giving you what you'd get with a normal multiclass; your initiator level can't go higher than your HD. (Well, technically you can, but the same trick can be used in a regular Warblade build.)