'Gain Sneak Attack' feat?

[Ditto]

Does anyone know of a feat that grants the sneak attack ability? I'm thinking about going Shadowbane Inquisitor, but I'm not sure I want to take a level in Rogue.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

There's only such a feat if you're playing with generic classes (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedNewClasses.html). In all other cases, feats should refrain from granting unique class features. Though there are some exceptions.

You could take a look at Ninja (from Complete Adventurer), since Sudden Strike counts as Sneak Attack for the purpose of meeting most prerequisites.

There's also a Fighter Variant (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#simple-fighter) from Unearthed Arcana that grants sneak attack in place of bonus feats.

[TheOOB]

Well the generic classes varient has a feat that gives you a sneak attack, but those feats are generally not for use by non generic classed characters.

Perhaps your DM will allow it though.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm

EDIT: Ack Simu-Post

[Hyfigh]

If you have access to Tome of Battle you can eventually take the feat allowing you to take Assassin's Stance. It grants you +2d6 SA which will either allow you to SA or stack with existing SA dice.

[TheOOB]

If you have access to Tome of Battle you can eventually take the feat allowing you to take Assassin's Stance. It grants you +2d6 SA which will either allow you to SA or stack with existing SA dice.

Yes, but since you don't have the acual sneak attack ability you can't meat the prereqs for the class the OP wanted.

[Hyfigh]

Yes, but since you don't have the acual sneak attack ability you can't meat the prereqs for the class the OP wanted.

Not allowing a character to take a prestige class because he doesn't have a certain requirement "as a class feature" is really nit-picky. Explain to me, if you will, how the sneak attack damage from the stance is any different than the sneak attack from the rogues class feature.

[Yakk]

One always works, one works if and only if you are in a stance?

Many PrCs are designed so that you have to give up BaB, spell progression, or other advancements in order to enter them.

[Fax Celestis]

One always works, one works if and only if you are in a stance?

Many PrCs are designed so that you have to give up BaB, spell progression, or other advancements in order to enter them.

Except you can be in a stance 24/7, wiht no repercussions.

[TheOOB]

As a DM, i'd personally allow it, I'm just saying that the letter of the rules may not allow it.

I seem to remember somewhere WotC saying you could qualify for feats via temporary ability enhancements (you just lost the feat if you lose the enhancement), and you could run PrCs the same way.

EDIT: In D&D, being the rules intensive game it is, there is usually a fairly large difference between having a, and having something similar to a. For instance unarmed strikes are attacks made with your natural body, but they are not natural attacks.

Similarly, just because you can make sneak attacks, doesn't mean you have the sneak attack ability. It's a fine line but most DMs will blur it if it makes things easier for them or their players.

[Hyfigh]

Hrmm... So let me get this straight. SA from the rogue is different because you have to meet a certain set of requirements (flanking, flat-footed, ect) to use the ability where-as the SA from the stance requires you to meet a certain set of requirements to use it (be in the stance {Fax just pointed you that being in the stance is not an issue}, flanking, flat-footed, ect). Call me stupid, but I don't see it...

[SpiderBrigade]

yes. I think the official ruling is that you would lose the benefits of the PrC if you dropped into a different stance, but they would come back if you went back to Assassin's Stance. This is similar to needing a certain ability score for a feat, and qualifying with a stat-boosting item. Which works.

[TheOOB]

However, it should be noted that you'd only lose any spellcasting and special abilitys from the class should you lose the prerequisites. BAB increases, Save increases, skills points, hit points, and proficiencies stay.

[Fax Celestis]

However, it should be noted that you'd only lose any spellcasting and special abilitys from the class should you lose the prerequisites. BAB increases, Save increases, skills points, hit points, and proficiencies stay.

Even that's questionable, considering the DMG says you "have to meet the prerequisites in order to take the first level." It doesn't say anything about losing class abilties or not being able to advance should you later lose the class features in question.

[TheOOB]

Even that's questionable, considering the DMG says you "have to meet the prerequisites in order to take the first level." It doesn't say anything about losing class abilties or not being able to advance should you later lose the class features in question.

Hmm, thats a good point. I was thinking about how paladins (and similar classes) go when they lose their prerequisites, but I guess general PrCs don't say anything about losing abilities, you just couldn't gain more levels.

[Rigeld2]

And some classes, like the Ur-Priest, turn themselves into black holes of infinite qualifying/disqualifying just by taking the first level if you somehow read it as "must always qualify".

[TheOOB]

Ur-Priests don't defy their own prerequisites. They must give up all other divine spellcasting ability.

[Fax Celestis]

Ur-Priests don't defy their own prerequisites. They must give up all other divine spellcasting ability.

Dragon Disciples, on the other hand, do. "Must be non-dragon" coupled with "gain half-dragon template".

[SpiderBrigade]

Ur-priest might be okay, but Dragon Disciple is not. One of the prereqs is "any non-dragon." So you hit that level where you gain the dragon type, and...D&D crashes to desktop.

Edit: also, ninjas. They simu me.

[Hyfigh]

Or Vow of Poverty. It specifically states you cannot use any magical items but then eventually makes any weapon you hold a magic item of +1 or better, depending on your level.

I love that one.

[TheOOB]

Or Vow of Poverty. It specifically states you cannot use any magical items but then eventually makes any weapon you hold a magic item of +1 or better, depending on your level.

I love that one.

Acually, thats another example of the fine line i mentioned. Just because you treat the item as a magic item, doesn't mean it is a magic item.

[Rigeld2]

Ur-Priests don't defy their own prerequisites. They must give up all other divine spellcasting ability.
Wrong.

The character must have no ability to cast divine spells. If such spellcasting ability was previously possessed (as with an ex-cleric), that ability is forever forsaken.
So you gain the first level of Ur-Priest, which grants divine spells. Since you have the ability to cast divine spells, you no longer qualify for the class, or the ability is forever forsaken.

[Ryuuk]

Regardless of weather Assassin's Stance works or not, it would still use up a good amount of resources. To qualify for Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance), you need to know a martial maneuver through either a level in a ToB class or taking the Martial Study feat. In addition to that, it's a 3rd level maneuver, meaning you need to be at least level 5 in a ToB class or Level 10 in any other class. The earliest you could get it would be Level 12, assuming you aren't a ToB class and you took Martial Study prior to that.

[cupkeyk]

As far as I can tell, Ur-Priest and PRC's are not retroactive with effects. It only matters that you have these abilities when gaining the first level as the definition states. After which you can then continue with the PRC even if you no longer met the prerquisite. The issue arises with retraining rules but otherwise it's fine. My example would be a 11 fallen paladin taking one level of Ur-Priest after which takes one level of Blackguard, gaining 9 additional levels of blackguard from nine of his fallen paladin levels and all the attributed spellcasting abilities from blackguard. He can still progress as Ur-Priest after.

Fluffwise, say for example he was previously a Paladin of Kelemvor but is tempted to fall by an Ur-Priest of Myrkul(who is technically dead but would rationally have a small patch of worshippers working to put him back into power). He learns to be an Ur-Priest before taking his blackguard of Myrkul Levels. Afterwhich, he is entirely a Ur-Priest of Myrkul (Fallen Paladin2, Blackguard10, Ur-PriestX).

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Fluffwise, say for example he was previously a Paladin of Kelemvor but is tempted to fall by an Ur-Priest of Myrkul(who is technically dead but would rationally have a small patch of worshippers working to put him back into power). He learns to be an Ur-Priest before taking his blackguard of Myrkul Levels. Afterwhich, he is entirely a Ur-Priest of Myrkul (Fallen Paladin2, Blackguard10, Ur-PriestX).
Um...

Ur-Priests don't worship gods. Living or Dead. They despise gods and steal their divine power to gain spells.

[Jack Mann]

Depending on your build, a dip into swordsage might not be too bad. If you take it at level nine, you'll be able to take assassin's stance as your first stance. As well, you can get a handful of useful maneuvers to further boost your combat effectiveness.

Of course, this depends on what sort of character you've got running, and how well your build synergizes with the swordsage's abilities.

[Portent]

Regarding "grant Sneak Attack" type feats, the only two I can think of are Bayushi's Technique (Rokugan d20; 3e, but the Dragon magazine issue that updated Rokugan to 3.5e didn't change it at all, so it's all cool) and Bushwhack (Black Company Campaign Setting).

Both of those feats grant Sneak Attack +1d6. I know you could take Bayushi's Technique multiple times, but I don't recall if Bushwhack allowed you to do so.

[Abardam]

Kobold Foe Strike (Races of the Dragon) is kinda like sneak attack, except it only works against, uh, kobold foes. You know, gnomes and such.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Just take a level of Rogue, or this official Fighter variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) if you don't want to lose BAB or hit die size. The class was designed to be built on synergy between two classes, so it'll naturally be hard to work around that.

Really, I think a Paladin/Inquisitor build could benefit from a level of 8+INT skill points, but whatever floats your boat.

And while Swordsage is a fun class, these guys have officially made it sound far too complicated.

[Rigeld2]

Um...

Ur-Priests don't worship gods. Living or Dead. They despise gods and steal their divine power to gain spells.
Adaptation section - they can be a sect trying to bring a dead god back to life.

[Person_Man]

Take 3 levels of Dragon Devotee from Races of the Dragon. You'll lose one point of BAB, but you'll gain +2 Cha, +2 Con, 1d6 Sneak Attack (or a Fighter bonus feat) and 1st level Sorcerer Spells (which you can cast in full armor). It's a great PrC to use for entry into other PrC, like Shadowbane Inquisitor.

Stick with it for 5 level, and you'll gain another level of Sorcerer spellcasting, another +1d6 of Sneak Attack (or another feat), and +2 Str.

[Yakk]

Except you can be in a stance 24/7, wiht no repercussions.

This prevents you from being in another stance, so there are repercussions.

[Abardam]

Take 3 levels of Dragon Devotee from Races of the Dragon. You'll lose one point of BAB, but you'll gain +2 Cha, +2 Con, 1d6 Sneak Attack (or a Fighter bonus feat) and 1st level Sorcerer Spells (which you can cast in full armor). It's a great PrC to use for entry into other PrC, like Shadowbane Inquisitor.
You need Sneak Attack (or Skirmish, or Sudden Strike) first before you can choose to get Sneak Attack (or Skirmish, or Sudden Strike). I think.

[Ditto]

I'd sooner just take the level in Rogue than do three on a completely unrelated tangent... we already have one useless caster in the group. (Monk2/Sor3). No need for another. :smalltongue:

Honestly, I don't even think I like SBI as much as SBStalker... it gives divine casting progression (Prestige paladin granting half-caster and SBI with none, oddly... you'd think they'd throw paladins a bone since the class features aren't terrific as-written) and the fluff is just about as relevant.

I'm doing Cloistered Cleric 2 (Love those skill points! And clerics should start out studying...)
Cleric 3 (Moving up in the world), maybe another level
Prestige Paladin 1-3? (PP makes a lot more sense to me than regular ones)
Rogue 1 dip (Skills!, and SBI prereqs)
SBI (or SBS... in any event, getting grittier)
into Gray Guard ("Wow... the world is pretty rough. Sucks.")

I like the flavor of my forseeable progression (not that it'll happen in my lifetime, given the lifespan of some previous campaigns), but I'm still sorting out what the crunch is world. I was considering RSoP in there (Pelor's a nice guy!), perhaps mingled in with the PP levels, but we're headed to an undead area now and I don't know if it makes sense to pick up an undead smasher later on.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

A bit of a late-coming thought on my part, but when it comes down to it:

By 20th level, you have 20 class levels.

By 20th level, you have 7 feats (not counting bonus feats, which are usually from a restricted list anyway).

Looking at that, which is the more expensive investment?

[Hyfigh]

The title was asking for a way to get SA through a feat... I never said it was efficient.

[Person_Man]

I'd sooner just take the level in Rogue than do three on a completely unrelated tangent... we already have one useless caster in the group. (Monk2/Sor3). No need for another. :smalltongue:

Honestly, I don't even think I like SBI as much as SBStalker... it gives divine casting progression (Prestige paladin granting half-caster and SBI with none, oddly... you'd think they'd throw paladins a bone since the class features aren't terrific as-written) and the fluff is just about as relevant.

I'm doing Cloistered Cleric 2 (Love those skill points! And clerics should start out studying...)
Cleric 3 (Moving up in the world), maybe another level
Prestige Paladin 1-3? (PP makes a lot more sense to me than regular ones)
Rogue 1 dip (Skills!, and SBI prereqs)
SBI (or SBS... in any event, getting grittier)
into Gray Guard ("Wow... the world is pretty rough. Sucks.")

I like the flavor of my forseeable progression (not that it'll happen in my lifetime, given the lifespan of some previous campaigns), but I'm still sorting out what the crunch is world. I was considering RSoP in there (Pelor's a nice guy!), perhaps mingled in with the PP levels, but we're headed to an undead area now and I don't know if it makes sense to pick up an undead smasher later on.

If you're looking for a Skillful divine caster, you may wish to look at the Harper prestige classes (PGF), Halfling Whistler (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20061121a), or Dwarvern Chanter (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20061128a) (though you'll have to dip one level in Bard).

A good dip for Paladins who want extra Skills is Marshal (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b), as their Motive whatever ability can add your Cha bonus to a lot of different things, for you and your friends.

Radiant Cheese of Pelor is always strong. Though whatever you build, remember that full caster + non-full caster classes tend to mix poorly.

[Ditto]

S'not bad, and I'm the face AND clearly the only intelligent one in the group... [/modest][/true] Not sure I want to invest a level in it, though. As far as dipping, I'm happy with Rogue.

RSoP *really* isn't that hotshot, IMO. And he's an elf, so Halfling thingie and Dwarven whatnot are out. :smalltongue: ((Why do they keep rearranging the smileys every time I go to click one?!)) Yeah, I know wimping out on caster levels is badnewsbears all around... stupid fluff and crunch conflicting.

[Person_Man]

RSoP *really* isn't that hotshot, IMO.

?

Well, just being a normal Cleric with full caster levels will put you towards the top of most people's base class power rankings (just below Archivist, Artificer, and Druid).

RSoP gets full caster progression and full turn undead progression. So right off the bat, they get everything a normal Cleric gets, and are just as powerful.

Plus their light spells have twice their base radius. And they get Greater Turning a 3+Cha times per day. And they get Divine Health. And they get free Empower on every Healing spell. And the get an extra domain. And they get a positive energy burst against undead. And they get martial weapon proficiency for some reason.

What's the drawback? They get a d6 hit die instead of d8. That's it. You give up maybe 1 or 2 hit points per level, the equivalent of one feat (Improved Toughness).

So, while some sort of Paladin/RSoP might not be so great, a Cleric/RSoP is clearly a very powerful build.



Yeah, I know wimping out on caster levels is badnewsbears all around... stupid fluff and crunch conflicting.Meh, whatever works for you. Just ask yourself what niche(s) you want to fill.

Its hard to fill a Meat Shield niche if you don't have full BAB (or Divine Power) and lots of hit points (or lots of healing and buff spells). It's hard to fill a toolbox or other caster niche if you don't have full caster levels. It's hard to fill a Skill Monkey niche unless you have high Int and a strong Skill list, though you could certainly pick one (like party face) and be decent at it with some levels in Paladin. If you enjoy being mediocre at a lot of things, that's fine. But if you want to be good at any one thing, you usually have to be purposeful about how you build your character.

You can be an avenging holy warrior who sticks to a strict code of conduct that happens to be Cleric 5/RSoP X. You don't need to be a Paladin. You just need to roleplay.

[Ditto]

True enough. I like the paladin crunch, too, though. Especially cuz I'm not sold on advancing far, if at all, on RSoP. The skills I like are mostly knowledges and normal clericky things... and the rogue is too skittish for face-ing. I'm just messing around at this stage. At level five, two angry dwarves and a monk-mage tackling things gets us by okay. That kobold who cast Web, though... hilarious.