Ravenloft: What to expect and advice

[Rasman]

So, I'm going to get to play in a Ravenloft game using the Pathfinder system as its core. Sadly, I don't know diddly squat about Ravenloft other than the short skimming I've had over the first two chapters of the Ravenloft Core Rulebook. I've been warned about playing strange races because of weirdness factor, so my Thri-kreen is a big 'NO' in terms of what to play. I'm considering a Fighter, Barbarian, or Tetori Monk since I want to stay away from spellcasters for a while, just to give you an idea of what I'm thinking at the moment - I may consider Bard as well. Any advice in regards as to what to try, what to avoid, and what to expect would be greatly appreciated.

[avr]

Nasty eviiiil magic and undead, that's the core of Ravenloft. A tetori monk may well have trouble with incorporeal undead (not uncommon) but will be handy against many BBEGs. You'll probably want something less easily dominated than a fighter. Superstitious barbarians will fit right in.

[Angelalex242]

Note that Paladins and Aura of Good Clerics create 'ripples' in Ravenloft, which means the dark lord who rules the land almost always knows where they are. Even if you're just a lowly 1st level Paladin or 1st level Cleric, the Dark Lord still knows where you are within a mile. (They can say, "There's a Paladin in the town of Il Aluk" or "There's a good cleric in the Forest of Despair" but they can't get any more accurate then that...unless they've got a Holy Weapon, in which case they can narrow it down to a football field. 'Merchant district of Il Aluk, western edge of the forest of despair') Good thing all of them are terribly arrogant SOBs, or they'd simply exterminate these 1st level characters as soon as they popped up on the radar.

[Rasman]

Note that Paladins and Aura of Good Clerics create 'ripples' in Ravenloft, which means the dark lord who rules the land almost always knows where they are. Even if you're just a lowly 1st level Paladin or 1st level Cleric, the Dark Lord still knows where you are. Good thing all of them are terribly arrogant SOBs, or they'd simply exterminate these 1st level characters as soon as they popped up on the radar.

I did read a little about this. It is exactly why I decided against playing a Paladin, though I will probably still play a Lawful Good character.

[Angelalex242]

I like playing them anyway, and even equipping them with a holy sword. A Holy Avenger, if I can find one.

Why? It means, just by standing there, I'm flipping off the Dark Lord of the Land. Just by standing there, I'm salt in his wounds. Just by standing there, I'm a kick in his nuts. Just by STANDING THERE, I inflict justice upon him. It makes me feel gutsy and studly and such.

I stand fearlessly in the face of great evil, and say, "Bring it on!" Which is sort of against the point of a horror setting, where you're supposed to run from the monster and hope he doesn't find you, but hey, it's how I roll.

"I am Lord Strahd Von Zarovich, master of Barovia."
"That's nice. I am Sir Luthien. And I've got just two words for you?"
"Spare me?"
"SMITE EVIL!"

[BWR]

If the DM runs RL anywhere near like it's supposed to be, ignore concentrating on builds. The point of RL isn't like normal D&D to kill things and take their stuff. It's Gothic horror, so atmosphere, getting involved in the events at hand and trying not to fail those Fear/Horror/Madness checks (Will saves are nice). Don't concentrate on building characters and avoid anything weird - the further away from Core you get, the less likely it is that it will fit in RL. Concentrate on creating a personality. The game should be run with an emphasis on personality and their reaction to bad situations, not just having good abilities and tactics. This doesn't mean you will survive if you don't play seriously.

You can probably come from any other setting you are familiar with, like FR or DL, since the Mists steal characters all over the place. It will be a good choice since the DM can introduce the setting to an outsider and you have to find out how things work differently than what you are used to. A thri-kreen is, rightly, right out. It's too alien for RL, as are most non-humans. Even elves, dwarves and halflings are rare and suffer prejudices many places in RL. Anything beyond that is likely to be either banned by the DM or assumed to be a monster by the natives (torches and pitchforks are more common in RL than most other D&D worlds I've seen).

Remember, it's an attempt at Gothic horror. If you need to get into the mood, look at the list of recommended literature for Ravenloft. Classics like Dracula, Frankenstein, Dr. Jeckyll & Mr. Hyde, Lovecraft, Edgar Allen Poe, William Hope Hodgeson, The Phantom of the Opera, J. Sheridan Le Fanu, M.R. James, RE Howard's Solomon Kane and Mythos stories, Henry James' ghost stories, any other classic ghost story. Understanding that, more than anything, will help you create an appropriate character.

[HammeredWharf]

If the DM runs RL anywhere near like it's supposed to be, ignore concentrating on builds. The point of RL isn't like normal D&D to kill things and take their stuff.

Eh, not entirely true. Raveloft does focus on atmosphere and character interactions more than the average settings, but the 3.5 version of its CS explicitly states the setting is meant for both that and traditional dungeon delving.

I'd keep various undead in mind and will saves high. That's about it as far as melee characters go. As usual, ask your DM if this is going to be a highly social campaign or not and determine your abilities accordingly.

[weckar]

The most important thing to know about Ravenloft is that the experience is strongly colored by whatever dread realm you end up in. Playing in Lamordia, I find, is particularly interesting as a sorcerer (or even a bard). Barovia and Darkon, while more welcoming to those characters, are potentially also more dangerous. And that's just when you stick to the core...

[BWR]

Eh, not entirely true. Raveloft does focus on atmosphere and character interactions more than the average settings, but the 3.5 version of its CS explicitly states the setting is meant for both that and traditional dungeon delving.

That explains why I prefer the 2e version to the d20 version.

[Coidzor]

Everyone and everything you encounter is EVIL and out to stab you in the back, especially the villagers/victims. Up until you realize this, then they're not. At least, if you're going by the popular misconception of Ravenloft as basically being Schrodinger's Monster + Murphy's Law.

[weckar]

Ravenloft really goes by the weird contradiction that because everything is evil, nothing is. Alignment matters almost nothing. Paladins can't even properly detect Evil. Even animals are 'evil'.

[Coidzor]

Ravenloft really goes by the weird contradiction that because everything is evil, nothing is. Alignment matters almost nothing. Paladins can't even properly detect Evil. Even animals are 'evil'.

Perhaps I should have said villains/antagonists, yes. :smalltongue:

[Blackhawk748]

Expect all Vampire, Werewolves, Liches, Demons/Devils, and even Golems (yes Golems) to be many times more frightening than you are used to. They all get salient abilities that make them just plain scarier. On the flip side, this setting is freakin sweet for roleplaying, i was gonna make a Vistani Sorcerer and run around being a gypsy with "the sight". So my own people would have hated me as well as everyone else.

Also if you ever need help go find a fortune teller, make sure she is a Vistani, pay for the expensive fortune, she'll then use her Tarokka deck, you question will then be answered (sorta)

[duboisjf]

Since monk is mentionned, could be a good campaign to try the monk Spirit master archetype from Undead Slayer (2014).
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/spirit-master-monk-archetype?tmpl=%2Fsystem%2Fapp%2Ftemplates%2Fprint %2F

Bonus against necromancy spells and effects, a way to affect incorporeal, protection against negative level, burst of positive energy when you destroy an undead.

Sounds fun.

[Blackhawk748]

Since monk is mentionned, could be a good campaign to try the monk Spirit master archetype from Undead Slayer (2014).
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/spirit-master-monk-archetype?tmpl=%2Fsystem%2Fapp%2Ftemplates%2Fprint %2F

Bonus against necromancy spells and effects, a way to affect incorporeal, protection against negative level, burst of positive energy when you destroy an undead.

Sounds fun.

I havent even looked at this an im gonna recommend it, anyway to mess up those friggin ghosts and wraiths that are gonna be everywhere would be wonderful.

[weckar]

Everyone does realize that the undead and werewolves are mostly just a Borovia problem, right? Not something that affects ALL of Ravenloft?

[Angelalex242]

Not so. Undead are EVERYWHERE. Particularly in Darkon. It's ruled by a Lich, and in Necropolis, it's a city of undead only, ruled by Death.

Seriously, if you throw a rock in Ravenloft, it'll bounce off an undead or go sailing through the incorporeal spirit of one.

[weckar]

Hmm, I'd have to re-check my sourcebooks, but I'm quite sure that in MOST dread realms they'd be no more common than on your average material plane, and on others much less so. But, in those cases, it'll be golems instead.

[BWR]

On the whole I'd say undead are more common. Certain realms definitely have more than others, and there may be realms almost devoid of undead (Dementlieu and Richemulot strike me as fairly low on undead, for instance), but places like Darkon, Barovia, Gundarak, Sithicus, etc. have a lot, even ignoring their lords. Not enough that you are guarenteed to meet them in random encounters, but enough that an experienced adventurer from another place would comment that they are more common in the Mists than back home.
At least that's my impression.

[RedMage125]

I wouldn't say thri-kreen are "out", but you would be one of the only ones in there. Dark Sun characters do get sucked into Ravenloft, on of the Domains of Dread is Kalid-Ma, which came from Dark Sun, one of the Sorcerer Kings' apotheosis rituals went south...

[BWR]

I wouldn't say thri-kreen are "out", but you would be one of the only ones in there. Dark Sun characters do get sucked into Ravenloft, on of the Domains of Dread is Kalid-Ma, which came from Dark Sun, one of the Sorcerer Kings' apotheosis rituals went south...

Kalidnay. And I don't think there are any thri-kreen there. It's been a while since I read about the place.

[Angelalex242]

Considering the rules of Ravenloft, you wouldn't want to be thri kreen...or anything else that inhuman. Most people will assume, in ravenloft, you ended up like that through being hideously evil and cursed by the Dark Powers for it, so they'll get out their pitchforks and hunt ya down.

In a world where elves and dwarves get the hairy eyeball, you definitely don't want to be that inhuman.

And you sure as HELL don't want to be a Tiefling. Being one with the Dark Side is a bad idea. As Tieflings get stronger, they, like their demonic or diabolic ancestors, slowly become self contained sinkholes of evil.

Aasimar, on the hand, causes a ripple like Paladins and Good clerics do. If the Aasimar IS a Paladin or Good Cleric, the ripple gets stronger, as if they had a holy sword. If they have a holy sword too, now you're just DARING the Lord of the Land to pick a fight with you.

[Coidzor]

Considering the rules of Ravenloft, you wouldn't want to be thri kreen...or anything else that inhuman. Most people will assume, in ravenloft, you ended up like that through being hideously evil and cursed by the Dark Powers for it, so they'll get out their pitchforks and hunt ya down.

In a world where elves and dwarves get the hairy eyeball, you definitely don't want to be that inhuman.

And you sure as HELL don't want to be a Tiefling. Being one with the Dark Side is a bad idea. As Tieflings get stronger, they, like their demonic or diabolic ancestors, slowly become self contained sinkholes of evil.

Aasimar, on the hand, causes a ripple like Paladins and Good clerics do. If the Aasimar IS a Paladin or Good Cleric, the ripple gets stronger, as if they had a holy sword. If they have a holy sword too, now you're just DARING the Lord of the Land to pick a fight with you.

The Dark Powers turn PCs into bug people now?

[Angelalex242]

The Dark Powers can turn you into anything they darn well please if they find it suitable punishment for your evil actions. Not that I'm entirely sure what evil you'd have to commit to end up a bug person, but I'm certain more creative souls then I could think of something.

[Rasman]

Since monk is mentionned, could be a good campaign to try the monk Spirit master archetype from Undead Slayer (2014).
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/spirit-master-monk-archetype?tmpl=%2Fsystem%2Fapp%2Ftemplates%2Fprint %2F

Bonus against necromancy spells and effects, a way to affect incorporeal, protection against negative level, burst of positive energy when you destroy an undead.

Sounds fun.

I...don't hate this...I don't hate this a lot, actually...I'll keep thinking on this one...


Considering the rules of Ravenloft, you wouldn't want to be thri kreen...or anything else that inhuman. Most people will assume, in ravenloft, you ended up like that through being hideously evil and cursed by the Dark Powers for it, so they'll get out their pitchforks and hunt ya down.

In a world where elves and dwarves get the hairy eyeball, you definitely don't want to be that inhuman.

And you sure as HELL don't want to be a Tiefling. Being one with the Dark Side is a bad idea. As Tieflings get stronger, they, like their demonic or diabolic ancestors, slowly become self contained sinkholes of evil.

Aasimar, on the hand, causes a ripple like Paladins and Good clerics do. If the Aasimar IS a Paladin or Good Cleric, the ripple gets stronger, as if they had a holy sword. If they have a holy sword too, now you're just DARING the Lord of the Land to pick a fight with you.

I've heard a lot about how weirdness factor can really screw you if you play an odd race and it was described almost EXACTLY like this.

I do think that I may avoid anything that gives me a ripple. I was targeted enough because of who my character was in my last campaign that it became slightly annoying.

[Angelalex242]

I'll warn you, then, that if ANYONE in the party has a Ripple, the Dark Lord of the Land knows where the whole adventuring party is. To fly under the radar requires not just that YOU be ripple free, but that the whole party be ripple free. That is, if you've got a cleric, he'd better be neutral, or he'll be a beacon saying 'we're over here, Strahd. Come get us if you think you're vamp enough for it!'

On the other hand, if there's a good cleric and a paladin in the party already, you're already cued up for a climactic battle with evil anyway, and you can't make it much worse.

[RedMage125]

Kalidnay. And I don't think there are any thri-kreen there. It's been a while since I read about the place.
I simply meant in terms of "Ravenloft could connect to Dark Sun"

Considering the rules of Ravenloft, you wouldn't want to be thri kreen...or anything else that inhuman. Most people will assume, in ravenloft, you ended up like that through being hideously evil and cursed by the Dark Powers for it, so they'll get out their pitchforks and hunt ya down.

In a world where elves and dwarves get the hairy eyeball, you definitely don't want to be that inhuman.


This is a good point, though.

I was just pointing out that you COULD. Doesn't mean you SHOULD.

[weckar]

Considering the rules of Ravenloft, you wouldn't want to be thri kreen...or anything else that inhuman. Most people will assume, in ravenloft, you ended up like that through being hideously evil and cursed by the Dark Powers for it, so they'll get out their pitchforks and hunt ya down.

In a world where elves and dwarves get the hairy eyeball, you definitely don't want to be that inhuman.

And you sure as HELL don't want to be a Tiefling. Being one with the Dark Side is a bad idea. As Tieflings get stronger, they, like their demonic or diabolic ancestors, slowly become self contained sinkholes of evil.

Aasimar, on the hand, causes a ripple like Paladins and Good clerics do. If the Aasimar IS a Paladin or Good Cleric, the ripple gets stronger, as if they had a holy sword. If they have a holy sword too, now you're just DARING the Lord of the Land to pick a fight with you.
Most common folk aren't aware of the dark powers or dread realms. Just fyi.

[Angelalex242]

They can still assume the Thri Kreen is a hideous monster there to eat their babies and go after it with a pitchfork anyway. And they will, too. If they're scared of elves (a race humans can even cross breed with...) there's no hope for thri kreen.

[RedMage125]

They can still assume the Thri Kreen is a hideous monster there to eat their babies and go after it with a pitchfork anyway. And they will, too. If they're scared of elves (a race humans can even cross breed with...) there's no hope for thri kreen.

That's not to say that they're wrong, either...

Although thri-kreen generally prefer the taste of a fully mature elf...

[HammeredWharf]

Most common folk aren't aware of the dark powers or dread realms. Just fyi.

Correction to a correction: almost no one knows about the Dark Powers or how Ravenloft works. Even the superhuman scholars outside of Ravenloft know very little. The common people of Ravenloft are quite likely to attack a thri-kreen on sight, however, and nonhumans get penalties to their social skills from their outsider ratings.


I'll warn you, then, that if ANYONE in the party has a Ripple, the Dark Lord of the Land knows where the whole adventuring party is. To fly under the radar requires not just that YOU be ripple free, but that the whole party be ripple free. That is, if you've got a cleric, he'd better be neutral, or he'll be a beacon saying 'we're over here, Strahd. Come get us if you think you're vamp enough for it!'

Paladin is the only class that has the Disruption ability and even then it's not automatic. Good clerics are fine and not that rare in Ravenloft. In fact, since Detect Good doesn't work in Ravenloft, telling if someone is good or evil is quite difficult. Dark Lords are usually complex characters and not stereotypical "kill everyone who's Good" villains, so if played right they are unlikely to go after people who aren't getting in their way.

[Angelalex242]

Not so. It's the Aura of Good class feature that causes a ripple, so Good Clerics, Paladins, and anyone with Exalted Feats causes a ripple. As do Aasimar, Half Celestials, and any true celestial.

[weckar]

Where exactly are you getting your information? I can't find the term 'ripple' in any of my Ravenloft books.

[HammeredWharf]

This is what the 3.0 Ravenloft Campaign Setting says:


Disruption: As a paladin's divine powers grow in strength, they begin to disrupt the very planar fabric of the evil-tainted world around her. Although this disruption is negligible when compared to that caused by a good outsider, darklords can sense the presence of a paladin in their domains as they would sense a festering wound on their own body. With a successful Scry check (DC = 25 - the paladin's level), a darklord can detect the approximate location of a paladin within her domain within a one-mile radius ("in that town" or "in the woods west of this keep"). With an extraordinary success, the darklord narrows the approximate location down to a 100-foot radius. The darklord automatically retries the Scry check once per 24 hours.

Clerics have no such ability. Of course, I may have missed something, but search through the CS found no mention of "ripples" and if the Aura of Good caused such effects, the ability above would be redundant.

[Angelalex242]

That's a 3.0 book. You haven't seen the updates yet.

Though I admit the Parthian Rapier in the 3.0 book makes for a fine Gunblade if you feel like playing Squall Leonheart.

[HammeredWharf]

The Ravenloft Player's Handbook is 3.5 and it contains the same ability, except it replaces the Scrying check with a Sense Motive check. Where are the rules for those "ripples"?

[Coidzor]

Weird, I thought Good Outsiders got spit back out if Ravenloft made the mistake of trying to eat one of them.

Though I suppose the villagers trying to take ye olde pitchforks and torches to a shining angel when it appears on general principle is an amusing mental image.

[Angelalex242]

I don't think the villagers would take a pitchfork to a celestial. Rather, they'd all beg the creature to do something about the vile tyrant that curses their lands. When the celestial goes to do exactly that, they're sadly outgunned...

Although then one wonders what'd happen if a Solar got trapped in Ravenloft. None of the Darklords could take a Solar on and win. Would the Solar just take the whole Demiplane apart? Who knows...

Well, at least the Darklords with Sense Motive as a class skill sense them most of the time, anyway. Which then bears reminding that only clerics, monks, rogues, bards, and paladins have sense motive as a class skill. Apparently some dark lords are better at keeping track of paladins then others.

[Azraile]

Going super good char would be asome though

your ingored at first..... then there like.... this is becoming tiresome... send some one to make an exsample of him.

then after a few shake downs, and becoming stronger there going to get anoyied and start rainning down some real oposition

just building and building till your forced to go and confrount the local overlord

[Rasman]

That's not to say that they're wrong, either...

Although thri-kreen generally prefer the taste of a fully mature elf...

My thri-kreen actually prefers cat. He considers it a delicacy:biggrin:. The Rakshasa in our group, was a Spelljammer game, could not figure out why he liked her so much and couldn't figure out why she kept waking up covered in salt and other spices. Definitely the best character I've ever played.


Going super good char would be asome though

your ingored at first..... then there like.... this is becoming tiresome... send some one to make an exsample of him.

then after a few shake downs, and becoming stronger there going to get anoyied and start rainning down some real oposition

just building and building till your forced to go and confrount the local overlord

Well, if I play the Monk, he'll be LG. Definitely not a 'heel' type. Pretty much a Paladin without being a Paladin.


But, I digress. I have, sadly, given up on playing the thri-kreen and have narrowed it down to the Dirge Bard or Tetori Monk.

The Dirge Bard makes sense because of the setting and I've always had a thing for high Cha characters, though I'm not sure how much I like how knowledges are affected, but someone needs to know stuff, right? Bards have just always been awesome to me and

The Tetori Monk is mostly me wanting to play a character that grapples. I have ALWAYS loved grappling and when they made an archtype JUST for grappling, I fell in love with it.

It being a 20 point buy also sucks a little...not sure where I should put my points for either of these characters...

[HammeredWharf]

For Dirgesinger, keep in mind that the class doesn't really require any attributes, because most of its abilities are based on your ranks in Perform. The lvl 5 ability is the only one that takes Charisma into account, but the check is pretty easy to make. It works best if there's a necromancer in the group. Inspire Courage is really good on a bunch of skeletons.


Although then one wonders what'd happen if a Solar got trapped in Ravenloft. None of the Darklords could take a Solar on and win. Would the Solar just take the whole Demiplane apart? Who knows...

The Dark Powers only do things that amuse them, so they wouldn't transport a solar there if it could just beat everything. It's the same reason why there are no epic wizards in Ravenloft. Azalin could take a Solar on just fine, though. He's a lvl 20 wizard with a "pet" dragon. The likes of Shrahd would get killed, of course, but many of them resurrect automatically, so they could be amusing for a while.

[Angelalex242]

Eh. Azalin is about even up with a Solar, but he's not sure to win, either.

It's Lich powers+20th level wizard vs. Celestial Might+20th level Cleric.

Wizard is slightly stronger then cleric...but the Celestial Might of the Solar sufficiently overwhelms the considerably lesser power of the Lich. The Solar probably has a slight edge, come to think of it.

The first few rounds of battle is 9th level spells going off against each other, in a more or less balanced way. The Solar just has to survive the battle of 9th level spells before he starts pumping Azalin full of Arrows of Undead Slaying, forcing Azalin to play a vicious game of Russian Roulette with his Fort Save.

...I almost want to roll that fight out now. Solar vs. Azalin, no holds barred.

The Solar's Regen doesn't help Azalin's case, as everything Azalin throws at it will do subdual damage unless it's an [Evil] spell.

[weckar]

The Dark Powers only do things that amuse them, so they wouldn't transport a solar there if it could just beat everything. It's the same reason why there are no epic wizards in Ravenloft. Azalin could take a Solar on just fine, though. He's a lvl 20 wizard with a "pet" dragon. The likes of Shrahd would get killed, of course, but many of them resurrect automatically, so they could be amusing for a while.I think it is unwise to declare what the Dark Powers would or wouldn't do. They've been left mostly undefined for a reason.

For all we know all they seem to cause are mere coincidences and whims of universal chance, making their 'existence' no more than a good excuse for bad people.

[HammeredWharf]

Eh. Azalin is about even up with a Solar, but he's not sure to win, either.

It's Lich powers+20th level wizard vs. Celestial Might+20th level Cleric.

Wizard is slightly stronger then cleric...but the Celestial Might of the Solar sufficiently overwhelms the considerably lesser power of the Lich. The Solar probably has a slight edge, come to think of it.

The first few rounds of battle is 9th level spells going off against each other, in a more or less balanced way. The Solar just has to survive the battle of 9th level spells before he starts pumping Azalin full of Arrows of Undead Slaying, forcing Azalin to play a vicious game of Russian Roulette with his Fort Save.

...I almost want to roll that fight out now. Solar vs. Azalin, no holds barred.

The Solar's Regen doesn't help Azalin's case, as everything Azalin throws at it will do subdual damage unless it's an [Evil] spell.

Correction to myself: Azalin is actually lvl 18. He has the home turf advantage, though. He's fluffed to be Batman with practically unlimited XP for crafting. He should have the ideal tools for the job. Also, while he's a lich, he's a bit special in that destroying his phylactery may not kill him, so you could say he's immortal. He's also got a pal in Ebb, who's a pretty nasty CR 17 monster and would definitely prefer having Azalin as her darklord instead of a Solar.

But yes, it would be a tough fight even for him.


I think it is unwise to declare what the Dark Powers would or wouldn't do. They've been left mostly undefined for a reason.

True, but they're more or less the personification of in-game drama. They wouldn't spoil the show. They're too meta to do that.

[Rasman]

Well, thanks to much of what you all have said, I have decided on going with the Dirge Bard.

The only question now is whether he should be human or a dhampir as it appears in Ryan Nalor's Domains of Dread: Pathfinder in the Mists PDF.

Human is straight forward and avoids the weirdness factor, but Dhampir have some rather nice perks for a bard in particular.

Thoughts, particularly from anyone who has played a Dhampir before?

[Coidzor]

The only question now is whether he should be human or a dhampir as it appears in Ryan Nalor's Domains of Dread: Pathfinder in the Mists PDF.

Human is straight forward and avoids the weirdness factor, but Dhampir have some rather nice perks for a bard in particular.

I'm not seeing what perks you refer to, since the bonuses to Dex and Cha are balanced out by taking a penalty to Con. None of the racial traits really scream "Bard" to me, either. :smallconfused: I suppose Detect Undead can come in handy, depending upon how badly it is gimped by being in Ravenloft in the first place. And resistance to the negative effects of energy drain is always nice.

[Rasman]

I'm not seeing what perks you refer to, since the bonuses to Dex and Cha are balanced out by taking a penalty to Con. None of the racial traits really scream "Bard" to me, either. :smallconfused: I suppose Detect Undead can come in handy, depending upon how badly it is gimped by being in Ravenloft in the first place. And resistance to the negative effects of energy drain is always nice.

Well, I suppose that you have to really look at it two ways.

With Human, there is no weirdness factor, +2 to one Stat (Cha) and one Bonus Feat. Always Good overall.

Human 20 Point Buy: STR 12, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 12, WIS 9, CHA 18

With Dhampir, +2 Cha, +2 Dex, -2 Con, Lowlight and Darkvision 60', Light Sensitivity (-1 isn't THAT bad), +2 Bonus on Bluff and Perception (so only +1 in areas of bright sunlight), Negative Energy Affinity (could have a hard time with the party Cleric, but evil things heal me), no negative effects from Level Drain unless it drains enough to kill me, +2 Bonus against Disease and Mind-Affecting Effects (I've heard there are lots of things like that).

Dhampir 20 Point Buy: STR 12, DEX 16, CON 12, INT 12, WIS 9, CHA 18

The question is, does the niceness of Dhampir outweigh what human always gives in this setting and does the +1 HP and Fort Save outweigh the +1 Reflex Save and AC?

[Angelalex242]

You realize that if your Dirgesinger Bard goes to Sourange...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOnqjkJTMaA

You can totally do that. You can even ask for a custom Dirge Bardic Music that gives all mindless undead who can hear your song max ranks in perform(Dance) and skill focus perform:Dance. ;)

As for Dhampir vs. human...well, what Dhampir does is, it allows you to have blood (Sic!) relations to a Dark Lord. The good news is, that means the evil power of whatever realm you're from may be supporting you. Then again, if your Dhampir is related to Strahd, then all Strahd's enemies will target you the minute you step out Barovia.

Still, a Dhampir can count on Vampires thinking of you as an ally. The downside is...the allies of good ALSO think vampires are your allies. After all, all your racial feats are there to improve your blood drinking. And that will most likely provoke Powers Checks, which will eventually lead you down the Dark Side of the Force, with all the usual consequences of that in Ravenloft. Then again, you may get all the blood drinking feats as bonus feats should you fail Powers Checks...

As a human, you're more 'under the radar.' Also, you've got an extra feat for the bardic must have 'skill focus: perform.' Also, no predeliction for failing powers checks...

On Solar vs. Azalin:The right tool for the job is an 'Epic and Evil Weapon', which Azalin, no matter how Batman he is, cannot make because he cannot craft epic items. Merely evil weapons are insufficient. And the wizard spell list isn't exactly full of [evil] spells for him to use either.

[HammeredWharf]

Yes, being a dhampir could, depending on your DM, be a very lore-heavy choice. Vampires are very organized in some parts of Ravenloft, so one can't be be a "simple" dhampir. Overall, I think human's abilities are better and would only pick dhampir for the fluff.

On Solar vs. Azalin: It's only DR15. Not exactly hard to blast through at high levels and once you're unconcious, you're practically dead. No, I think the biggest problem Azalin would face would be the angel's versatile repertoire of spells, which Azalin doesn't have because he can't learn new spells. On the other hand, the angel could refuse preparing new spells, because I don't think a good outsider would want spells from the Dark Powers.

Come to think of it, that's a pretty good campaign idea: and angel gets sucked into Ravenloft, gets sucked into a long war with a darklord, is slowly corrupted by the Dark Powers and becomes a darklord, herself.

[Angelalex242]

The Solar can prepare spells just fine. If preparing spells corrupted you in Ravenloft, it would corrupt Good Clerics and Paladins as quickly. Rangers and Druids too, for that matter. Clearly it doesn't, so the Solar is safe regaining spells at need.

The Solar had DR 15/Epic and Evil, and REGENERATION of Epic and Evil or [Evil] spells of 15.

The thing about regeneration is, it makes all damage done to you subdual damage.

Then again, Azalin is surely not going to waste his time on direct damage spells, like any sensible wizard, he's going to be using save or suck/save or die/save or lose, primarily. The Solar's spell resistance doesn't do Azalin any favors either.

Against this, the Solar has Greater Dispel Magic at will for as many counterspells as he sees fit, and can throw his Sword of Dancing +5 to go make Azalin's life miserable while he blocks the spells that could really mess him up. The +2 edge on caster level the Solar has helps on those counterspells, of which he'll need lots. But hey, at will is at will, he's not running out anytime soon.

The permanent True Seeing a Solar has still does lots of good things for him, even in Ravenloft. The lesser globe of invulnerability renders Azalin's low level magic worthless (not that he'd be using those low level slots much, but it's a point to consider.)

This isn't to say Azalin can't win, but I think he's at a disadvantage.

[Coidzor]

Well, I suppose that you have to really look at it two ways.

With Human, there is no weirdness factor, +2 to one Stat (Cha) and one Bonus Feat. Always Good overall.

Human 20 Point Buy: STR 12, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 12, WIS 9, CHA 18

With Dhampir, +2 Cha, +2 Dex, -2 Con, Lowlight and Darkvision 60', Light Sensitivity (-1 isn't THAT bad), +2 Bonus on Bluff and Perception (so only +1 in areas of bright sunlight), Negative Energy Affinity (could have a hard time with the party Cleric, but evil things heal me), no negative effects from Level Drain unless it drains enough to kill me, +2 Bonus against Disease and Mind-Affecting Effects (I've heard there are lots of things like that).

Dhampir 20 Point Buy: STR 12, DEX 16, CON 12, INT 12, WIS 9, CHA 18

The question is, does the niceness of Dhampir outweigh what human always gives in this setting and does the +1 HP and Fort Save outweigh the +1 Reflex Save and AC?

I just don't see how that's particularly nice for a bard in particular. I see the general utility, sure, but not what would make it special to a Bard.

Seems like another factor is whether you'd invest in the disguise necessary to pass.

[Rasman]

Oh, this is making more and more interested in the dhamphir.

Is Barovia the only realm that vampires exist in or are there others that they hold a lot of sway?

EDIT: DRRRR...just found that answer in the PDF :smallbiggrin:


I just don't see how that's particularly nice for a bard in particular. I see the general utility, sure, but not what would make it special to a Bard.

Seems like another factor is whether you'd invest in the disguise necessary to pass.

From what I've read in a short snippet, there isn't any kind of penalty for a dhampir to try and look human. They can apparently pull human off quite easily.

"A giomorgo or dhampir can disguise himself as a normal human without penalty."

So I don't think that would be terribly difficult.

[Angelalex242]

Vampires hold sway in many realms. Barovia's simply the most famous of them (and frankly, if you're gonna be related to a Dark Lord, you can't beat Strahd for the awesome factor.) But there's others, most of which I can't think off hand because Strahd sort of rules the awesome vampires trope in Ravenloft.

[MrSinister]

Going super good char would be asome though

your ingored at first..... then there like.... this is becoming tiresome... send some one to make an exsample of him.

then after a few shake downs, and becoming stronger there going to get anoyied and start rainning down some real oposition

just building and building till your forced to go and confrount the local overlord

There is actually a PrC from one of the Ravenloft books called the Blessed Paladin. The level 10 capstone ability is called Last Stand, where you sacrifice a point of Wisdom and actually summon the Darklord of a domain to your consecrated battleground. You get bonuses to fight the Darklord there. Depending on the Darklord, this is either cheesy or foolish. But this is one of the most flavorful capstones out there.

There really shouldn't be any epic levels in Ravenloft, so if I committed to being a Super Good Paladin and rode it out to level 20, THIS is how I would want to retire. Summoning Soth for one last battle, and spitting in his face as he murdered me.

[Angelalex242]

I kinda want to google that prestige class now.

At level 10, you pick a Dark Lord, flip the Mortal Kombat theme on your iphone, and go...

"Hey, Strahd...I CHALLENGE YOU TO MORTAL KOMBAT!"

Strahd: Another one? Damnit, I was THIS close to bagging Tatyana too! You'll pay for this...

[Rasman]

OK, so Barovia is the best known for Vampries, but as far as music is concerned, is there a domain that is famous for its arts?

I figure that for this character, his mother was probably a famous or talented musician or actress and, thus, the Vampire became enamored with her.

I ask this because I mostly need help with locations and he would definitely know the language of his mother's homeland.

[HammeredWharf]

Dementlieu and, to a lesser extent, Borca. Borca's was modeled after Italy during the Borgias' rule, while Dementlieu is like Renaissance France. Barovia is best known for Strahd, but I'm not sure how many other vampires reside there. I know Darkon has a large amount feuding of vampire clans in its secret police, the Kargat. However, Darkon is a very practical place.

If you want to know more about each realm, you could check out the Gazetteers. They're a series of books that describe each realm in great detail and provide sample NPCs, etc. They're more for DM usage, but are also good sources if you want to pick a hometown or something similar.

[Rasman]

Dementlieu and, to a lesser extent, Borca. Borca's was modeled after Italy during the Borgias' rule, while Dementlieu is like Renaissance France. Barovia is best known for Strahd, but I'm not sure how many other vampires reside there. I know Darkon has a large amount feuding of vampire clans in its secret police, the Kargat. However, Darkon is a very practical place.

If you want to know more about each realm, you could check out the Gazetteers. They're a series of books that describe each realm in great detail and provide sample NPCs, etc. They're more for DM usage, but are also good sources if you want to pick a hometown or something similar.

Oh my, the suggestion about the Gazetteer was spot on. I found it quickly and the detail is perfect for this character. You, my good sir, I thank you.

[Coidzor]

Oh my, the suggestion about the Gazetteer was spot on. I found it quickly and the detail is perfect for this character. You, my good sir, I thank you.

Woohoo! :smallbiggrin:

[weckar]

Although, if the game doesn't take place in that specific dream realm, justifying your character is from there may be tricky, as many dread realms are permanently closed.

[Rasman]

Although, if the game doesn't take place in that specific dream realm, justifying your character is from there may be tricky, as many dread realms are permanently closed.

I think that, based on what I have read about Ravenloft, that that will not be terribly difficult to pull off. The Mists seem to just do as they please and at the whim of the Dark Powers, so if they wanted me to go where ever the game wants me, then so be it.

Thus far, I have decided that he will be from Dementlieu, but will be traveling in order to find inspiration for the writing of his opera, so that really opens up how he got to where he is.

[HammeredWharf]

Traveling from one realm to another shouldn't be that difficult in Core. Many of the realms are connected to the point of having diplomatic relations, treaties and wars. In fact, Dementlieu is in a treaty with some other realms, because it's near Falkovnia and Falkovnia is scary. So, it mostly depends on the realm you're playing in. If it's one of the realms with permanently closed borders, you can say the Mists took you there or you got a ride from Vistani, who can cross even closed borders. Mingling with Vistani is a bit unusual, but only a bit.