Wu Jen vs Emerald Immolation

[Yael]

When using the Transcend Mortality (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-mage--58/transcend-mortality--885/) spell, is there a way to save yourself by using Emerald Immolation (http://dndtools.eu/classes/jade-phoenix-mage/) just right before the effect ends? Like, you are practically dying, and reconstructing there, so maybe Transcend Mortality loses its drawback-cost?

Answerino pls?

[weckar]

You would have to get the timing right, but it seems like it would indeed work. So, basically, once every week, you'd be able to go nova for 3 minutes or so. From a narrative point of view, I could see that.

Honestly, with that combo I'm getting real bad Last Airbender flashbacks.

[Xerlith]

That's actually the very reason Wu Jen JPM is such a nice choice. Just before Transcend Mortality ends, you Immolate. No strings attached, as long as you time it right.


There is a very nasty combo that uses Wu Jen, Jade Phoenix Mage and Archmage.

Basically, you make Transcend Mortality a Spell-like thanks to High Arcana...
Cast Body Outside Body.
And make your clones go Transcend Mortality (they can use Spel-likes just fine). You do it as well.
Say hello to three additional Martial Adept juggernauts. Clones disappear before Transcend Mortality ends, so you take no damage from their deaths.

If you make an additional Spell-Like by High Arcana, you can also make your clones nuke something.

And don't get me started on White Raven Tactics.

[Psyren]

It's one reason. There's also the Wutai flavor synergy of being a far east mage, as well as gish spells like Body Outside Body, Giant Size, Metal Skin and their attack roll stuff that works better on gishes like Decapitating Scarf.

[Chronos]

If you're going to be going wu jen/JPM/archmage anyway, you should also get Body Outside Body as an SLA. That way, after you cast it, all of your copies can cast it, too, and then all of them can cast it again, for an absolutely ludicrous number of copies.

Then one of them uses War Master's Charge.

[Val666]

Wu jen 5/ Crusader 1/Jade Phoenix mage 4/ Spellsword 1/ Jade Phoenix mage +6/ Archmage 4.

Try to find a race with blue skin, pick a longspear as weapon.

Enjoy playing Dota 2 phantom lancer

[MrNobody]

I'm not sure that it could work. There's a line in the spell description that could screw this up.


This effect allows no save and can't be prevented by any means, though you can be resurrected normally afterward.

The effect cannot be prevented: this would be enough to stop the trick. You try to prevent actually dying by using emerald immolation, but since the effect cannot be prevented, you still crumble to dust die.

Not counting this, however, there's a couple more thing: how would you consider benefical spell effects you are carrying? after immolation they remain or they expire (immolation explicitly removes negative effects, nothing said about positives)? And in case they remain, the time between when you are destroyed by the immolation and when you come back count in the duration?
This are the question that you and your DM have to answer before deciding on the trick. If buffs survive the immolation, so does "trascend mortality". If the "duration clock" is stopped when your are immolating, then your trick will give something like this:

You use Trascend mortality -> some round, after you immolate -> time for the duration of your buff freezes -> you come back -> your "buff clock" starts running again -> Trascend mortality expires and you are dead.

On the other hand, if your DM says that when you are destroyed all the buff elapses, you are sure that the trick would work BUT you will lose every other buff AND trascend mortality!

In the end, if buffs survive your destruction but their clock keeps running (although i can't see this option as reasonable, since they are on your body and your body is destroyed) you must have timing and luck to have Trascend mortality end while you are already dead, since you cannot die while dead.

[Segev]

I think the trick is that Emerald Immolation isn't preventing death. It's just causing the death in such a way that you auto-rez afterwards.

So no, the death isn't prevented, you just get up again immediately thereafter.

[Chronos]

That's right, the effect can't be prevented. So you don't. Emerald Immolation doesn't prevent you dying when Transcend Mortality wears off. But you're already dead from the Immolation, so it doesn't matter. Then, after you're dead, Emerald Immolation brings you back.

[Psyren]

On the other hand, if your DM says that when you are destroyed all the buff elapses, you are sure that the trick would work BUT you will lose every other buff AND trascend mortality!

Well the general idea is that you only do this after your biggest combat of the day week when such awesome power is truly necessary. Because TM is going to last at least 17 rounds (minimum CL) then you should have plenty of time to finish up the combat and burn yourself.

And the assumption is that, yes, your buffs fall off when you die (you actually become an object for a while) so TM "ends" while you are already ashes and kills you a second time (which is redundant.)

[Rebel7284]

Emerald Immolation says that you are utterly destroyed. Pretty sure that ends ongoing spells.

[MrNobody]

I think the trick is that Emerald Immolation isn't preventing death. It's just causing the death in such a way that you auto-rez afterwards.

So no, the death isn't prevented, you just get up again immediately thereafter.

But the thing is that Emerald immolation is a second, different death cause. Saying that using it will allow you to resurrect ignoring the first spell effect implicitly sais that you consider that this death overlaps the first one. But the spell, saying that the death it causes cannot be prevented, explictly sais that no, they don't overlap, they cannot overlap.
Nothing can cancell that death effect, not even another death.

[Kazudo]

Nothing can cancell that death effect, not even another death.

I don't know that there are rules for Death 2: Death Harder.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Transcend Mortality has a listed duration, it's even dismissable (sidenote: I've been trying to find a way to get a familiar to dismiss a spell for you or some other fast dismissal ability so you don't have to wait for transcend mortality's duration to come near the end to explode yourself).

That means one of the following must be correct:

1. Spell effects continue to tick along while you're dead.

2. Dying automatically ends any active spell effects on you.

That's it. The two are exhaustive and mutually exclusive.

If 1, then you're already dead when TM ends assuming you timed your explosion right, and TM does nothing to you.

If 2, all spell effects go away the moment you explode, including TM.

...If using TM, I would be extremely fearful of a dispel magic, though. man that would suck...

[Gildedragon]

Spellblades of all the Dispells (standard, greater, reaving)

[weckar]

But the thing is that Emerald immolation is a second, different death cause. Saying that using it will allow you to resurrect ignoring the first spell effect implicitly sais that you consider that this death overlaps the first one. But the spell, saying that the death it causes cannot be prevented, explictly sais that no, they don't overlap, they cannot overlap.
Nothing can cancell that death effect, not even another death.

It shouldn't matter. Emerald Immolation has two effects, happening a number of rounds from each other. The first happens before TM runs out, the other one (requiring that you are dead) happens after.

[Segev]

But the thing is that Emerald immolation is a second, different death cause. Saying that using it will allow you to resurrect ignoring the first spell effect implicitly sais that you consider that this death overlaps the first one. But the spell, saying that the death it causes cannot be prevented, explictly sais that no, they don't overlap, they cannot overlap.
Nothing can cancell that death effect, not even another death.
Nothing is preventing that death effect. In fact, TM specifically says you can be resurrected thereafter.

So you die from EI, and the "death" from TM goes off while you're already dead. Whether it's overlapping or not, you're still dead. Nothing prevented that. TM explicitly DOES NOT prevent you from coming back from the dead. Therefore, EI's second effect - of bringing you back - goes off, and you're alive once more.

There's no contradiction. There's no prevention of TM's effects. Everything happens as the rules require. You just are alive at the end of it, because EI brings you back after killing you.

[Vaz]

Contingent Revivify using the Party Cleric

[Segev]

Contingent Revivify using the Party Cleric

That, too, would work.

[MrNobody]

So you die from EI, and the "death" from TM goes off while you're already dead. Whether it's overlapping or not, you're still dead. Nothing prevented that. TM explicitly DOES NOT prevent you from coming back from the dead. Therefore, EI's second effect - of bringing you back - goes off, and you're alive once more.

There's no contradiction. There's no prevention of TM's effects. Everything happens as the rules require. You just are alive at the end of it, because EI brings you back after killing you.

Ok, this is quite a solid explenation: i think that this way it would work, thanks for the clarification.