Computer Europa Universalis 4 Thread 2: Comet Sighted! [Archive] - Page 6

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Leecros

2015-06-18, 10:49 AM

Sometimes i wonder whether it was a good idea to add a diplolimit in EUIV. there wasn't really one in EU3 and nobody seemed to have a problem with it and even after EUIV came out there was some complaints on the paradox forums about the diplolimit. If you could get all of Europe as an ally/vassal, than what's the problem?

And then i go back to EU3 and something like this happens:
http://oi57.tinypic.com/wgt24z.jpg
*Note that it doesn't show the 20-some vassals that i also have

Suddenly the idea of a Diplolimit really makes a lot of sense.:smalltongue:

Now the nerfs to Personal Unions in general...The Requirement that they must have a member of your own dynasty on the throne first and the removal of Personal Unions outside of Europe. that's a bit more debatable. While requiring that they must have a member of your own dynasty on the throne first, it does make actually getting personal unions kind of rare. Unless you're aiming for them specifically and playing a nation that can get a really high Diplomatic Reputation(See: Austria). It's unlikely that you'll see a PU in any given game, except by chance.

As far as PU's outside of Europe go, while it may not be particularly historical. I don't think it's necessarily fair to limit nations outside of Europe in the ways that they can peacefully expand. I mean think of the game balance for multiplayer. Afterall, that's all paradox cares about anymore...right?...right? :smalltongue:

(Yes, this was a shameless attempt at showing off something that i did in a game that nobody cares about anymore except for nostalgia purposes. I certainly have no issues with the diplolimit and if i ever did, i certainly don't now)

i'm a terrible person ;_;

Grif

2015-06-19, 01:50 PM

So. Been testing out Common Sense with Venice. So far, I'm mostly liking the changes, with a couple of minor quibbles regarding the AI (again).

R8 my blob plz. :smalltongue: (I know, I know, it's pathetically small, but I more or less just coasted along and nibbled at the Ottomans where I can.)

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/43130180939018012/8A0EC9E09005AA233906B0317B8C88E6EF69750D/

Other interesting things that happened:
- Austria got PU-ed by Hungary
- Castile got PU-ed by Aragon (Hah, take that Iberian Wedding.)
- Denmark can into HRE via Bavaria
- Burgundy imploded early, and the resulting Dutch minor just blobbed all over the place.
- Lithuania basically becoming a big purple blob eating into the hordes after breaking free.

EDIT: my own observation on patch 1.12 so far:
- Prestige is far harder to gain. Don't expect >50 prestige even with tons of battles
- AT is impossible to raise without the appropriate ideas. The loss of (all) unique buildings hurts.
- PP is now back to reasonable levels, with one easily gaining and maintaining >50 PP without needing to cheese privateers
- Vassal AI seems overcautious now, possibly due to new forts messing with pathfinding. Those liking vassal heavy games beware. That said, marches bonus are kept even after 60 BT/100 Dev, so that's good.

Eldan

2015-06-19, 01:56 PM

Seems fine. Sadly, my save where i took and held Constantinople as Genoa is broken.

IthilanorStPete

2015-06-19, 04:12 PM

Flickerdart

2015-06-19, 04:29 PM

Anyone catch the EUIV sale on Steam today? The Extreme Edition is on sale...for $4 more than the base game, which is also on sale, except the Extreme Edition bundle contains only the base game.

IthilanorStPete

2015-06-19, 08:34 PM

Finally had some free time to play today, so I dusted off my old Ottomans game and continued it (using version 1.9). It's not exactly challenging at this point, but rolling over enemies as an unstoppable blob has a certain charm. I've got 150 years left and Europe hasn't received nearly enough of attention, so some major invasions are in order. I'm thinking of aiming for the entire Mediterranean coast, conquering Austria to truly surpass the historical Ottomans, and maybe grabbing Moscow to spit in the face of those pretenders to Rum.

Anyone catch the EUIV sale on Steam today? The Extreme Edition is on sale...for $4 more than the base game, which is also on sale, except the Extreme Edition bundle contains only the base game.

I took the chance to pick up El Dorado. That's weird about the Extreme Edition sale; does it have any of the minor DLC, at least?

Grif

2015-06-19, 10:29 PM

Bah. I just found out republics can't take the decision to release the Kingdom of Jerusalem. Bummer. :smalltongue: (Now I have a small section of Palestinian coast that's worthless because they're considered overseas.)

super dark33

2015-06-20, 12:45 AM

Grytorm

2015-06-20, 01:46 PM

Well I just started playing, and as far as I can tell the Commen Sense expansion is aptly named. Being something that everyone should already possess in the first place. It is just stupid you can't develop countries without the DLC. I am playing Portugal and want to unlock another building slot but nope. Even though it is listed I can do nothing about it. The other changes look interesting. Also, can I get common sense and keep playing a save?

Sallera

2015-06-20, 02:13 PM

I don't see anything particularly 'stupid' about the DLC actually, you know, adding content. It's not as though your provinces start off worse than they were before the patch and need development to be comparable. It's sort of a Paradox thing; you get so much good stuff just from the patches that they need to put something in the store. And given how amazing the Common Sense patch was (and/or will be, once the initial bugs are ironed out), I don't see any need to complain about it.

Edit: Also, completely unrelated, but your avatar's broken; it's only showing the top-left corner. Try rehosting it, maybe?

Grytorm

2015-06-20, 02:24 PM

rweird

2015-06-20, 03:18 PM

I don't mind and I just found the avatar online.

Mostly it bugs me that it tells me that if I raise my development to 10 I can then build another building. But I can't raise the development to build another building.

No, it won't break your saves. It can lead to some weird things though (I've seen someone Westernize as a North American without Conquest of Paradise, then buy the DLC, and they still had access to native ideas (and the Native Council government type) with western tech, though that might have been some sort of glitch).

AgentPaper

2015-06-20, 06:12 PM

Leecros

2015-06-20, 10:24 PM

It would be nice if older DLC just eventually got merged into the base game, say after a year or so. That, and keep the base game at full retail price ($40 or whatever) and suddenly buying into the game becomes a whole lot easier to stomach, since you're just missing the latest 3-4 DLCs, rather than a dozen or more of them (eventually). Might also make it easier for them to test the game with less potential versions floating around where a player bought DLC X and Y but not Z.

This would actually be a pretty good idea. I've seen a number of people complaining about just how much DLC games like CKII and EUIV have on the community Steam forums(which is admittedly generally very anti-DLC). It's hard to explain to them how the base game is perfectly enjoyable without the DLC, but the DLC just adds a lot more to do. It's, perhaps a bigger issue with something like EUIV which has numerous "You must have X DLC installed to use this feature" buttons. Whereas CKII DLC is generally map expansions and increasing the number of different kinds of people you can play as. A bit more subtle after you get into the game.

The only real drawback would be that it would reduce the incentive for people to actually buy the DLC if they're just going to get it for free in another time.

Perhaps a better way to go at it would be to either merge older DLC into bundles that are generally cheaper(For example: Merge Wealth of Nations, Res Publica and all of the songs and sprites related to those DLC into one DLC and make it 15-20$), or make it so that all the major DLC(basically anything over 10$) does not eventually get merged into the game.

Grif

2015-06-20, 11:20 PM

Well I just started playing, and as far as I can tell the Commen Sense expansion is aptly named. Being something that everyone should already possess in the first place. It is just stupid you can't develop countries without the DLC.

Technically, you weren't able to develop provinces prior to the patch anyway. (Base Tax and Manpower cannot be raised directly, only through buildings.)

EDIT:
The process of removing kebab seems to be going well. I have an open idea slot which I'm not sure what to put. Ideas (heh)? (If you're wondering why there's Jerusalem, I just tag switched to the Knights to help them enact the decision, then switched back. The AI is hard-coded not to take it apparently.)

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/43130180945016888/DFCEB89F3414B30568D669B3EAFAB602DF4DFB60/

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2015-06-21, 08:34 AM

IthilanorStPete

2015-06-21, 08:44 AM

Murmaider

2015-06-21, 10:12 AM

Guancyto

2015-06-21, 10:23 AM

Likewise, I've never heard it any way other than "remove kebab" specifically referring to destroying the Ottoman Empire.

rweird

2015-06-21, 10:25 AM

Man, the new trend of referring to Turkish Nations as "kebab" still strikes me as quite racist. Yet at the same time, players seem to only direct it at actually Turkic countries, not at Arab or Persian countries...

I believe it comes from Polandball (and, I believe that people who make comics about the history between countries are a group that is rather likely to play games about interactions between countries in the past). I've seen it used by some people for as long as I've been playing (at least a year), though I haven't noticed a growing popularity (then again, I don't go on Paradox Forums much).

Can't say I approve of it either.

Grif

2015-06-21, 10:36 AM

Is that a trend? I've never seen anyone use it except when talking about the Ottoman Empire in EU.

Likewise, I've never heard it any way other than "remove kebab" specifically referring to destroying the Ottoman Empire.

Exactly this. There are no other connotations to it. Austria being referred to as weisswurst really made my day when I was browsing reddit.

EDIT: apparently Weisswurst is Bavarian, so Austria probably should be referred by another food. Maybe Wiener Schnitzel...

Leecros

2015-06-21, 11:41 AM

Austria is indeed referred to as Schnitzel

France is referred to as Baguette

http://www.eu4wiki.com/Jargon

Down under Slang

super dark33

2015-06-21, 12:43 PM

Technically, you weren't able to develop provinces prior to the patch anyway. (Base Tax and Manpower cannot be raised directly, only through buildings.)

EDIT:
The process of removing kebab seems to be going well. I have an open idea slot which I'm not sure what to put. Ideas (heh)? (If you're wondering why there's Jerusalem, I just tag switched to the Knights to help them enact the decision, then switched back. The AI is hard-coded not to take it apparently.)

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/43130180945016888/DFCEB89F3414B30568D669B3EAFAB602DF4DFB60/

Is Theodoro anyone's vassel? I know its my personal quest to end each game with either Theodoro and Byzantium intact.

Flickerdart

2015-06-21, 01:15 PM

All the countries are food - Britain is called "rosbif" by France, for instance.

Grif

2015-06-21, 08:45 PM

Is Theodoro anyone's vassel? I know its my personal quest to end each game with either Theodoro and Byzantium intact.

Not I can think of. I usually keep BYZ around for kicks, and I might do the same to Theodoro. (Then again, I might not. I was planning to pick up a Protestant and Coptic vassal to complete my set of Christian vassal countries.)

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2015-06-21, 09:11 PM

In Vicky and EU I've also seen it referring to the Turkic central asian countries (Bukhara, Khiva, etc). Don't think I've seen it in CKII though.

Grytorm

2015-06-21, 11:27 PM

So thanks for the help before. Playing Portugal, and I am hoping to retake cores I have in North Africa from Tlecmen. They swallowed Morroco and took a few provinces from me. But I wanted to know how much of a disadvantage is lacking Artillery. They have cannons and I haven't had the point to tech to that level yet. I have established Brazil.

The alliances would be Portugal/Castille/Aragon vs. Tlecmen/Tunis/Ottomons.

OrcusMcP

2015-06-22, 06:09 AM

Early cannons aren't that good, combat wise, but even having a few makes a HUGE difference in sieges when they first appear. As far as the alliance setups, you might have tough going if all the fighting is in the Maghreb, as the attrition will whittle your forces away, and a lot depends on if the Ottomans have better things to do.

Grytorm

2015-06-22, 09:18 PM

Grif

2015-06-22, 09:21 PM

Thank you for the advice. The last few wars went poorly with them. But I am at war with them again, and might be able to get some territory. If Aragon and Castille would move troops into Tlecmen. Is there any way to encourage them to do this. I have enough transports to move their stacks, but they don't seem interested. The Ottomons are participating but seem to be hanging around in Aragons holdings in the Mediteranian, Sicily.

The AI does rather poorly when it comes to invading overseas provinces. Best I can say is to make sure their transports doesn't sink, and taking a fort will sometimes encourage them to land on you.

ObadiahtheSlim

2015-06-23, 03:18 PM

Grif

2015-06-26, 11:53 AM

Looks like the new patch will be a big one. Lots of changes to war and peace treaties (again!). And tons of bugfixes.

###################
# Gamebalance
###################

# Autonomy & Cores
- Reduced effect of autonomy on warscore cost.

# Buildings
- The build cost of an earlier built obsolete building is now discounted from the build cost of an upgraded building.

# Development
- It is now 100% more expensive for primitives to develop their provinces.
- The cost to improve provinces is no longer increased by +5 for each time developed
- Increased cost to develop from +1% to +2% per existing development.
- You can no longer improve a province's Base Tax, Production or Manpower if its value is already more than that of the other two combined (so for example, if Base Tax is 3 and Production/Manpower 1 each you can only improve Production or Manpower).

# Disasters
- English civil war can now end with the English government switching government.
- You now need at least Admin, Diplo or Mil 5 on your ruler to get Janissaries (so disaster isn't able to immediately trigger).

# Economy
- Blockaded is now a simple fixed modifier, instead of using incomprehensible scaling.
- Wine is now worth 2.5 at start, and increases by 25% instead of 50% from later events.
- Reduced trade power from provinces.
- Reduced trade power effect of Important Centers of Trade and Tolls.
- Reduced maintenance of light ships.

# Espionage
- Fabricate claim is now countered by the local spy defence in the province you are fabricating on, rather than the capital.

# Exploration
- Countries with their capital in a colonial region can now auto-discover provinces in colonial regions, since they can't use hunt for the seven cities.

# Governments
- Parliament Issues that boost base values of provinces will now only do so in one province per debate.
- Some Parliament bribes that were far too cheap were made more expensive.
- Rank 2 countries now get +1 diplomat, and rank 3 countries +1 free leader.
- Ambrosian Republic now has 4-year election cycles (up from 3).

# HRE
- 'Large Nation in HRE' and 'Small Nation in HRE' vote modifiers are now based on development instead of number of provinces.
- Reduced Imperial Authority change from number of princes, foreign control and free cities.
- Countries on a different continent than the current Emperor are no longer eligible to be Emperor.

# Ideas & Policies
- Tuscan Traditions increased from 1 to 2 papal influence to match the generic Italian Traditions.
- Daimyo traditions now have +25% land forcelimits instead of time to fabricate claims
- Daimyo idea 'Armies of the Daimyo' is now +25% manpower instead of +50% land forcelimits.
- Subject Forcelimits Contribution was changed to Vassal Forcelimit Contribution, and only increases land force limits from vassals & marches. Numbers were increased to compensate.
- A number of ideas that gave -2% prestige decay reduction were reduced to -1%.
- Rebalanced trade ideas to give more trade power (to compensate for power lost from trade efficiency).
- Horse Artillery policy is now +10% artillery power (down from +20%).
- 'Organized Construction' economic idea is now -10% build cost (down from -20%).

# Religion
- Most papal actions now give 20 year modifiers instead of one time boosts.
- Now possible to switch between the Buddhist faiths.
- Reformed's Trade Focus now gives trade efficiency instead of trade steering.
- Reformed's War Focus is now 10% land & naval morale (down from 15%).

# Revolts
- Rebels will now once again cancel missionaries when they take control of a province.

# Subjects
- Overlord now gets dragged into protectorate's defensive war when subjugating them.
- Increased diplomatic power cost of forcing a union partner to change culture.
- Which religion a released country/vassal gets is now based on the majority religion in their core provinces (with previous religion counting as 50% larger than it actually is).

# Technology
- Chinese & Indian tech groups now start at tech 3.
- Development & Administrative efficiency is now gained 20% at a time around 1630, 1700 and 1760, for a total of 60% (up from 50%).

# Units
- Reduced effect of war exhaustion on recruitment speed.
- Only navies now take on arrival attrition.

# War
- In order to demand provinces you must now be able to make them your core (if not already), either directly or eventually through other provinces you are taking at the same time.
- The amount of AE, prestige, power projection etc you can get from a single province is now capped at the equivalent of 30 development. Development over 30 in a single province will not count towards these factors.
- Large nations now get more AE (based on total development).
- Lowered Aggressive Expansion impact when taking core of vassal.
- Increased army tradition gain from sieges.
- Increased base naval forcelimits to +12 for independent nation and +4 for subject nation.
- You now get army tradition for each fully maintained non-obsolete fort, up to a maximum of +1. The amount you get depends on how many forts you have compared to your total development level.
- No single entry of a peace treaty can now cost more than 300 diplomatic power (for example, releasing a huge junior PU partner than no longer cost more than 300 DIP).

###################
# AI
###################

# Diplomacy
- No longer willing to join offensive wars where the attacker is attempting to force a union on a Great Power (unless it's a Succession War).
- Will no longer designate historical rivals as a March under any circumstances.
- Will now refuse to be vassalised by a country that owns its cores.
- Now more reluctant to ally countries with a significantly weaker military potential.
- More keen to accept offers of support independence when disloyal.
- Will no longer be Friendly towards countries it is at war with.
- Now less willing to ally much weaker countries that already have powerful allies.
- Now more willing to ally weak countries that are threatened by a rival.
- Papal AI is now less likely to be militaristic.

# Economy
- Will no longer care to colonize Arctic provinces if they don't already own territory in the same area.
- Much more keen on building shipyards to speed up their fleet constructions.
- Fixed a bug where AI countries created by event would immediately disband their event troops due to not having a budget set.
- Colonial Nations are now willing to spend more of their budget on colonists.
- Less prio on developing provinces bordering other countries.

# Ideas
- Will no longer ignore restriction on not being able to pick more than 50% of an idea group category.

# Rebels
- Rebel stacks that are too weak to besiege a fortress will now go elsewhere, if able.

# War
- Will now sortie against weak rebel stacks.
- Fixed a bug where the AI would not gather newly built armies due to incorrectly calculating moves as unsafe
- Will now build more transports.
- Will now retreat from naval combats that it is clearly losing.
- Less interested in launching naval invasions of minor allies in a war, especially if those minor allies are out of supply range.
- Should now avoid walking into provinces that are effectively suicide because of natives.
- Fixed a bug where the AI would ignore other countries' units when considering whether a province had enough supply limit for them, under certain circumstances.
- Fixed a bug where the AI would consider the strength of attached units when calculating relative power to another country (leading to increased LD, etc).
- Fixed a bug where the AI would not look at the size of attached units when considering whether a province had too low supply limit for their army.

###################
# Interface
###################

# Alerts
- Added alert for when you can pick a new church aspect.
- Added alert for when an explorer is ready to explore (and there is at least one available non-circumnavigation mission).

# Country
- Added larger versions of diplomacy view for higher resolutions.
- Tooltip for republican government form now shows their cultural sufferance bonus.
- Country Trade View now displays global trade power instead of global trade income (as the latter was retired).
- Country Stability View: Rebels that have no armies and are not occupying provinces in your country are no longer shown.

# Keybindings
- Can now use "k" to consolidate regiments.
- Can now use "m" to detach mercenaries or obsolete ships.
- Can now use "u" to reorganize regiments.
- Shortcut for Forced March and toggle foreign armies is now F.
- Shortcut to find province is now Tab.

# Launcher / Frontend
- You can now see the government rank of different countries during country selection

# Macrobuilder
- Improved development macrobuilder to be sorted and show more information.

# Map
- HRE mapmode now displays Free Cities and should be much clearer about what provinces are actually in the Empire and who is Emperor/Elector.
- Simple Terrain Mapmode now uses a different colour scheme.
- Find province displays a flashing highlight around found province to make it easier to locate.

# Peace
- Peace View: Outcome of empire religous war more clearly displayed.
- Fixed popup saying you have made peace with an enemy if someone in a war returns cores to you in a peace deal.
- Made it more clear that you will remain a subject when proposing peace for an independence war without independence treaty, by color coding the notice and moving it upwards in list.

# Provinces
- Colonization View now shows Colony Tax, Production, Manpower and Development Values.
- Return Province dialog is now more descriptive of actual effects.

# Tooltips
- Improved clarity of power projection tooltip.
- Improved fort information in province tooltip.
- Added base cost and modifiers to Reduce War Exhaustion button tooltip (if any modifiers active).
- Added base cost and modifiers to Reduce Inflation button tooltip (if any modifiers active).
- Added maintenance cost to cost tooltip when building ships
- Tooltip on techgroup in diplo screen now shows techgroup tech penalty
- Split Advisor death message into two messages, one for when an advisor you have employed dies and one for when any other advisor in your country dies
- Cost to upgrade ships is now visible in the upgrade tooltip even if the ships are at sea
- Tweaked treasure fleet tooltip for when fleets cannot be sent, and made so that the progress bar will appear regardless of whether any gold accumulated thus far (if there are gold mines).
- Tooltip on building template macro map icon now warns you actual costs are higher when construction goes over force limits.

# Units
- Number of "stars" for a commanding leader is now also shown on combat map icon.
- Reorganize button is now disabled if you dont have exactly 2 units selected.
- There is now information on the unit panel on how much an army can loot each month (and its tooltip explains the derivation).
- Separatist/nationalist rebels now use unit graphics from the nation they want to form/join.

###################
# Usermodding
###################

# Console & Commandline
- Console command 'ideadump' is now available to modders (lists all nations with generic ideas in game.log).
- Added console command 'bearhaslanded'.
- Added reload_heightmap and reload_provincemap commands
- Added "inflation" cheat.
- Adds console command 'diplomacy_info' which prints a summary of active diplomatic relations.

# Defines
- Added the define KARMA_RESTORE_ON_RULER_DEATH to specify how much karma moves towards middle when ruler dies.
- Added the defines BORDER_COLOR_CUSTOM_TEMP_HIGHLIGHT_X (where X = R, G, B, A) to specify Find Province result map color.

- Exported HRE_MAX_RANK, HRE_MAX_RANK_ELECTOR and SUBJECT_MAX_RANK to defines.
- The define_advisor effect can now set discount = yes to create advisors that cost only half as much to employ.
- Added the define STACKWIPE_MANPOWER_RETURN_FRACTION to specify how much power is returned to country on stackwipe.

# Effects
- Added on_issue_taken effect to parliament issues.
- Exile ruler/heir no longer crashes on save
- Exile ruler/heir name can now append province number correctly
- Exile heir will no longer create a new heir

# Messages
- Default messages now support tooltip strings for button "2" and "3" (suffixes _BTN2_TOOLTIP and _BTN3_TOOLTIP).

# Misc
- Added tweaks.lua to checksum to avoid it as a source of OOS.

###################
# Script
###################

# Achievements
- Lowered age requirement of Die Please Die to 70

# Casus Belli
- Arctic terrain renamed to Glacier to avoid confusion with Arctic climate and now exists in more than one provinc

# Decisions
- Added decision to form the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth if the other country has been destroyed.
- Restoring Constantinople (either via Ottoman decision to move capital there or Byzantine Theme System decision) now increases to all types of development instead of only tax and manpower (but still gives the same total development increase).
- Forming the Netherlands now secularizes your country if a theocracy.
- Added decision to lower the development cost of the Amsterdam province.
- Added decision to form Tuscany.
- Added Decision to Adopt Theocratic Administration for owners of Common Sense.
- Removed tech group restriction from decisions to change government to Merchant or Aristocratic Republics.
- Creating the Kingdom of Jerusalem will now actually set the rank to Kingdom.
- Many formation decisions will now be visible even if the country to form is still alive.
- Forming Prussia as the Teutonic Order no longer kicks you out of the HRE and no longer requires you to be independent (as it does not change your government rank).
- Pragmatic sanction event has now been converted to a decision available to any Emperor with a female heir.
- Forming Great Britain diplomatically now requires Great Britain to not exist already.

# Events
- The Polish event to increase the base tax of Warsaw can now give a development modifier instead.
- Added tooltip for tradegoods price changes showing their effects for other countries than the one getting the event.
- The event for Vasco Da Gama in India now gives a claim rather than a core and it is possible to turn down the province.
- Added event to create Greek cores late in the game.
- Decreased chance of Lux Stella and Starlight events firing.
- Most vote-switching events for countries with Parliaments will now be more or less likely depending on the current support for an issue.
- Some parliament related events now have slightly more inclusive triggers. 2 additional events added.
- Most event-given advisors will now come with a salary discount.
- Updated the Ministry of the Waterways event for Venice to match new development cost for coastal terrain.
- In order for the Plague in Cairo to happen to the Mamluks they now need to own Cairo.

# Modifiers
- Some stupidly small modifiers (-2.5% tax modifier etc) from events were changed to have an actual effect.

# Missions
- Mission to convince elector now less common and given modifier reward.
- Added 3 missions for Orissa.

# New Ideas & Policies
- Added Yarkandi Ideas.
- Added Luxembourg Ideas.
- Added Ideas for Nizhni Novgorod.
- Added Ideas for Yi.
- Added Ideas for Leon.
- Added General Idea Set for French Minors.
- Added Ideas for countries of Nubian culture.
- Added Ideas for Sapmi.
- Added Ideas for Galicia.
- Added Ideas for Nevers.
- Added Ideas for Medri Bahri.
- Added Ideas for Dali.
- Added Andhra Ideas.
- Added Kangra Ideas.
- Added Orleanaise Ideas.
- Added Ormuzi Ideas.
- Added Greek Ideas.
- Added Moluccan Ideas.
- Added Ladakh Ideas.
- Added ideas for Baluchistan.
- Added ideas for Mutapa.
- Added ideas for Mazovia.
- Added ideas for Kangra.

# Setup
- Moluccan terrain now more consistent.
- Added Spice Islands province modifiers in Ternate and Tidore provinces.
- Trent now has Venetian culture.
- Removed Flemish core on Calais.
- Arctic terrain renamed to Glacier to avoid confusion with Arctic climate and now exists in more than one province.
- Haasa now starts with a few more provinces and Najd with a few less.
- Added a fort to Picardy.
- Bulgaria and Serbia will now start with cores on Skopje.
- Polish and Lithuanian development levels adjusted slightly.
- Urgell now produces Wool.
- Ferarra's map colour now dark green.
- Added Andhra tag in 1444 (replacing unused York tag).
- Tuscan idea Grand Duchy of Tuscany reworded to fit both Tuscany and Florence.
- Added a Florence tag in 1444 (replacing unused Lancaster tag).
- Imereti will now use Georgian Ideas.
- French Development levels boosted slightly in 1444.
- Boosted Russian base development levels from 1444.
- Added Maldives tag (replacing unused Doughlat tag).
- Added Malta tag (replacing unused Jalayirid tag).
- Changed a number of provinces from Coastline to other terrain types.
- Iceland is now considered highland terrain.

###################
# Bugfixes
###################
- Added a forced sync on starting MP games that should hopefully address OOSes in large games with many players.
- You now become an Empire when you unite Japan.
- Pretender rebels no longer change government from elective to other type of monarchy.
- Mods will no longer block Random New World.
- Send and Cancel will now use keyboard consistent shortcuts (Return and Escape).
- Fixed a CTD in enforce peace IsValid check.
- Damaged trade ships will now consider the ports of subjects when deciding where to repair.
- Fixed AI always declining sale of ships due to bad unit type check.
- Fixed manpower being gained inversely on stackwipe (i.e. a regiment with 0 men would give the most MP back to country).
- Fixed so that allied objectives can be set by clients in MP games.
- Fixed missing stats/flavor text tooltip for preferred unit selection.
- Peace: Wrong Diplomatic Power cost shown in certain cases for Cede Provinces, Release Nations and Become Vassal.
- The parliament issue related to guaranteeing religious minorities will no longer spill outside of the interface.
- Macrobuilder: Fixed issue where you could not select building upgrades unless you had enough cash to build them from scratch.
- Fixed wrong scope for is_part_of_hre=no checks in the Form Hanover and Westphalia decisions.
- Having more than 7 Free Cities (by for example using the Nation Designer) no longer gives additional monthly Imperial Authority past the 7th.
- Conquering a vassal's capital will no longer reset the overlord's annexation/integration progress.
- Fixed federation_size trigger and correspondingly the six_nations achievement (which was too lenient by 1).
- Fixed DLC colors disappearing from units when loading a save bug.
- Fixed disappeared sacrifice ruler & heir interactions.
- Probably fixed crash related to creation of armies in cede_province effect.
- Peace: AE and DIP reductions when taking cores with subject reconquest CB are now correctly applied.
- Policies that improve legitimacy now also improve devotion.
- You no longer get popups on unit arrival for exploration missions.
- AoW event 50 "Cardinal's Policies Upset Nobles" if you already have the modifier it grants.
- The event "A Beloved Heir dies" will no longer create temples in provinces that have cathedrals.
- Legatus Natus will no longer be revoked if you lack Legitimacy making it trigger very easily.
- Fixed triggers for Dravidian monarchy titles.
- Various Papal Event opinion modifiers will now decay rather than last forever.
- Polish Mission to Vassalize the Teutonic Order will now also work for the PLC and will not fail if the PLC is formed.
- The third option in the event Iconoclast Fury "Time to take the lead and break Papal stranglehold!" will no longer be available if you are playing the pope.
- Permanent province modifiers are no longer removed when starting a game with random nations
- Karimata strait is no longer leaking into the Sunda Strait.
- The "Talented and Ambitious Daughter" event can now only trigger once per ruler.
- The Mission Protect against Rival will now only trigger if your forcelimit is bigger or equal to that of your rival.
- Native Migration mission reward will now work as intended.
- Missions that apply specifically to one province countries will no longer consider migrating tags.
- Fixed issue with PLC not getting some of their correct units from unit packs.
- The event asking a tag to cede Malta will now not trigger if it's the only province under their control, if it's their capital or if they are a subject country.
- Income on building macro builder map icons is now shown consistently as monthly rather than a mix of yearly and monthly.
- There's now an opinion modifier applied upon discovery of covert actions other than fabricate claims.
- Fixed issue where you could not create new custom nations after creating 32 nations and then deleting a previous one.
- Fixed bug in CContextEffect which could cause mismatches between tooltip and random effects (e.g. define ruler) for other events choices than the first.
- You can no longer move trade ports and create trade posts to/in provinces you don't own and control.
- Fixed issue with Forts no longer mothballed after loading save if Common Sense is not active.
- Development Efficiency now affects the whole cost of developing.
- Fixed a bug where you could only get one breach instead of the up to three you were supposed to be able to get.
- Imperialism CB is now unlocked at dip tech 23 (to match updated tech info).
- Add/Remove Historical Rival/Friend effects now display correct tooltips.
- Selecting Heir name and stats is now disabled for "Elective Monarchy".
- 'The Princess is in this Castle' achievement is no longer disabled for countries that start without an heir.
- any_heretic_province province scope for tooltip fixed (fixing e.g. the tooltip of event religious_turmoil.4).
- Ironman cannot be loaded until checksum has been calculated (to prevent deironmanization of save games).
- The Trade Hegemon achievement will now require the new Hormuz Island province instead of the inland Mogostan province.
- Corrected modifier check in the event "The Woman Among us". It should no longer trigger if you already have the modifier it gives now.
- The event "Cousin Claims Chair of X" will now only target subjects that are vassals or marches.
- Localization references to [Root.Government.GetName] have been renamed to [Root.GovernmentName] and corresponding code now works (rather than returning country's name).
- Fixed centers of reformation disappearing graphically in non-English localizations.
- Manpower tooltip's displayed manpower reserved for queued units will now update as units complete.
- Custom Nations: Fixed issue with multiple ruler entries in ledger.
- Fixed a few issues with the Defend the Lowlands mission.
- Empty effect for "Recruits flock to the banners" event removed.
- Zoroastrian and Jewish Missionaries will no longer look like Cranes.
- Fixed bad region check for client states in Italy.
- Trade Company event that grants free forts will now allow you to turn down the fort and will not trigger for provinces already adjacent to owned forts.
- Protestantism Event 15 - Catholic leaning Monarch can now never trigger more than once for the same tag.
- Fixed stack overflow crash happening on annex/integrate during specific circumstances related to historical vassals.
- You can no longer create vassals-of-vassals by demanding the capital of an enemy overlord country for your vassal as a part of annexation deal (instead enemy overlord's vassal becomes yours).
- Not having an active debate will no longer cause the English Civil war to progress.
- Decisions related to changing religion will now require you to be independent.
- The Strait between Tataouine and Djerba is now more straight.
- Custom Nations: Duplicate Monarch entries and monarch entries from deleted Custom Nations are no longer saved.
- Decision to switch between Sunni and Shia will now not be available if force converted.
- The Knights are now Occitan culture.
- Judaism and Zoroastrianism will now properly display Crusade names.
- Fixed trade efficiency calculations broken by removal of trade income modifier.
- The Court Star Chamber event is no longer a choice of 30 ADM vs 1 stability.
- Trigger units_in_province now take scope as an argument
- Trigger infantry_in_province now take scope as an argument
- Trigger cavalry_in_province now take scope as an argument
- Trigger artillery_in_province now take scope as an argument
- Trigger heavy_ships_in_province now take scope as an argument
- Trigger light_ships_in_province now take scope as an argument
- Trigger galleys_in_province now take scope as an argument
- Trigger transports_in_province now take scope as an argument
- Trigger infantry_in_province no longer have reversed tooltips
- Trigger cavalry_in_province no longer have reversed tooltips
- Trigger artillery_in_province no longer have reversed tooltips
- All units in province triggers now show the province name in the tooltip correctly
- Fixed the Ottoman name list's numbering for future Ottoman rulers still being based on the 1399 start date of EU3.
- Jirí z Podebrad will now be named the same if succeding via event as he would be in historical starts when he exists.
- Reduced prestige decay now makes prestige go faster to 0 when prestige is negative, rather than the opposite.
- Tooltip for Forced March now correctly displays its tech requirement as 15
- Buddhist event 37, Reincarnation Found, will no longer retrigger for an abundance of free stability.
- Peace View: "Humiliate" and "Show Strength" peace options can no longer be combined with making the target a Vassal or Protectorate or demanding a Personal Union.
- Local autonomy is taken into account when displaying the effect on total force limit of individual provinces.
- Peace View: Countries that are transferring trade power can no longer demand transfer of trade power from their enemy.
- Embargo rivals interaction now respects truces.
- Hid activate/mothball all buttons and label/icon in low resolution version of military view (since they were flying outside the screen).
- Incorrect French text for 1444 bookmark.
- Fixed "has_female_heir = no" returning wrong result if no heir exists.
- Spis and Sao Tome now have their correct names in French and German language versions
- Reworded catholic flavor event 4, Simony, to work better for theocracies.
- Fort maintenance is impacted by inflation.
- Fixed issue where diplomatic mapmode would look weird when no country was selected
- The council of Trent is no longer something exclusively for Protestants.
- Options no longer switched for papacy_event.28 (Witch Trials)
- New Save Games no longer cause crashes when opening save game list in older version of EU4.
- Volunteers for the Holy Fight (devotion_events.24) will now trigger a bit more restrictively.
- Theocracies can now trigger the peasants war disaster.
- Poland will no longer be both a vassal under France and in union under Saxony during the reign of Frederick Augustus I.
- The Moose in the Mansur province has now moved north to Kharkov.
- You will now get notifications when a siege ends regardless of whether you're leading siege or not.
- Can now recall spies from the diplomatic screen when blocked from spying due to a spy being discovered
- Corrected borders for Congress Poland
- The "Preparing our Defences" event will no longer trigger unless there are provinces that match the effect of both options.
- fixed bug where an odd selection of Andalucian provinces didn't get culture converted at the same time as the others after the Alpujaras revolt.
- War exhausion arrow (on country stability view) points in the right direction henceforth.
- Japan can no longer enforce peace on daimyos defending themselves.
- Hainaut no longer has a ghost union with Burgundy causing odd things if released.
- Fixed many issues with Spanish Localisation.
- Hungarian flavor events no longer attempt to create personal unions with states that are not monarchies.
- Tooltip for DIP can no longer (falsely) show a positive gain from annexing/integrating a subject.
- Dynamic province names are updated properly as option is changed in lobby.
- Fixed missing icon for disease outbreak siege status.
- Fixed rebel units starting at far too low morale.
- Province outliner member tooltip income correctly labeled.
- Subsidize armies gives march's opinion bonus to overlord rather than every country in the world.
- blockade_ports wargoal only considers provinces that are controlled by their owner as legitimate targets of blockade now.
- The mission to keep a rival out of Italy will now only fire once.
- Develop manpower tooltip won't show negative values anymore (instead accurately showing 0 improvment as worst case).
- Rebels will no longer relocate while they're sieging something with enough men.
- You no longer get popups on unit arrival for trade missions.
- Fixed crash when forming Spain.
- Vassalization missions will no longer target Imperial Free Cities.
- The unit models from Horsemen of the Crescent and Winged Hussars Unit should now show again regardless of what other unit packs you have.
- The effect on Inti religious authority when changing local autonomy has been made explicit in tooltip.
- Local Ironman saves are now compressed again.
- The Ottoman Mission to conquer Tunisia will no longer target provinces that are also part of the Conquer Tripolitania mission.
- Ottoman missions will no longer target provinces owned by their subjects.
- Sugar will only be associated with plantations rather than two different manufactory types.
- Fixed problem with button text for event 4120 - Great Inquisitor for all language versions.
- Trade Node route graphics no longer disappear when loading a save from ingame
- Handle Them! in country stability view should no longer flicker.
- Fixed Duplicate entry for Maratha kingdom titles.
- Papacy Event 48, contacts in the Holy See, will no longer fire for the Papal States.
- Singleplayer sets "only host can save" and "editable savegame" to yes, to prevent new singleplayer saves from inheriting settings from multiplayer making them unplayable.
- The island of Sao Tome will now belong to the West African Trade Company.
- Fixed encoding issue with Andalucian province names.
- Forming Westphalia now gives Administrative Monarchy.
- Devotion Events will no longer attempt to increase autonomy in the capital.
- Peace: Fixed issue where you could get a stability hit by declining offered tribute.
- 'Large Nation in HRE' and 'Small Nation in HRE' vote modifiers are now based on development instead of number of provinces.
- Fixed a bug where the cost of creation cores in same continent colonies was consistently calculated as too low.
- Displayed uprising progress in Stability & Expansion view is updated properly.
- Foreign rebel faction occupied territory can now defect when your country breaks.
- Corrected defender's adjective in fleet battle report tooltip.
- Units that are moving or shattered no longer loot.
- Development icons have been pushed down and no longer float on the terrain background.
- Karma now moves 25% towards middle when ruler dies (except for republics).
- Succession war prediction in tooltip and actual outcome should now match.
- Local autonomy tab on macro builder shows rebel type names properly.
- Economy map mode Base Tax tool tip now only shown for land provinces.
- Regions and Local Autonomy map modes are now updated properly when clicking a province.
- Cloud saves are now visible again in the "Ironman Save" dialog.
- Fixed issue with the triggers of the Dutch Flavor Event "Franco-Dutch tensions" that could make it trigger when France did not exist.
- Pontic culture countries will now also be able to restore the Byzantine Empire.
- Fixed some provinces in Northern Italy not being removed from the empire in 1495.
- Buddhism Events now give less prestige.
- Hagia Sophia landmark moved to make better room for Constantinople city and fortification graphics.
- It should now be clear from tooltip that an annexation can't progress while vassal doesn't control their capital, nor can you start a new annexation under this circumstance.
- When detaching mercenaries, the newly formed mercenary unit becomes selected.
- Peace View: Re-added missing "part of war goal" and claim icons for province entries.
- Macro Builder: Province Development entries are now sorted by Increase cost.
- Japanese Events will no longer try to change a daimyo's opinion of himself.
- Fixed a bug where a capital province would not ignore its local autonomy value when calculating forcelimits from that province.
- Ibadat Khana Decision will no longer require you to have non-muslim provinces.
- Fixed various issues with Austrian Missions.
- Recover Greece Byzantine Mission will now include Euboea in allow as well as target provinces.
- Papal Bull against Slavery event will now no longer retrigger indefinitely and forbidding slavery will no longer make your colonies more profitable.
- Montferrat will now be under Spanish ownership in the interregnum between the death of Giangiorgio and the securing of the title by Federico Gonzaga.
- The Defenestration in Prague will no longer leave Bohemia with Austrias monarch and a Casus Belli to restore union on Austria.
- Papal mission to annex Ferrara now properly gives the reward as a province modifier in Ferrara.
- Fixed mismatch between tooltip and directly displayed AE in case of allies being given provinces.
- If failed to join MP, player is now taken back to the start screen since game state can get corrupted when failing to join.
- Hopefully tooltip that indicates which fort is reverting control in a province is showing the correct fort now.
- Free Cities now lose their free city status on being annexed (and thus cannot be released as one).
- Administrative Efficiency now also affects cost to diplo-annex.
- Tooltip for tax income now correctly shows the yearly tax income.
- Corrected Subsidize armies tooltip and limited the actual transfer based on receiver's level of manpower depletion (full March manpower => no manpower lost).
- Consolidate regiments button enable/disable now distinguishes between mercenaries and regular army units (that have never been able to merge).
- Macro builder building mode's map coloring will now indicate whether a building is upgrading another or built into an empty slot.
- Fixed map color "left/back" button in Customize subject dialog.
- Blocked an exploit regarding decreasing autonomy at war which could cause warscore issues for winner.
- -nudge command line option now blocks multiplayer (because it can cause OOS).
- Fixed issue where the country wasn't automatically re-selected when loading a (non-ironman) cloud save.
- Starting between 1530 and 1546 as Spain gives you over 200% OE due to uncored provinces
- Thuringia will no longer start without cores in the start dates it exists.
- It's no longer possible to downgrade ships with upgrade button by merging them in fleets with upgradable ships.
- Colonial nations now join wars of the overlord when they form.
- Fixed a mmall mistake in tutorial text
- Humiliate Rival and Show Strength peace options can no longer be selected if target country will cease to exist after war.
- You are no longer able to select provinces in macro builder in any of the modes (it wasn't intended).
- Natives (of uncolonized provinces) no longer get on-par-with western tech in later scenario starts.
- Missing new line in option tooltip for loan_size effect
- Issues with the disaster 'English Civil War'
- The Bhuddas of Bamiyan are now actually in the Bamiyan province and not in Qarshi (though not quite in their real location due to lack of space).
- allow_westernize = no is respected again, i.e. it funtionally limits certain government types from westernizing.
- Added Persian core to Zaranj.
- Envoy travel time in country trade view displays in correct color.
- A huge number of idea group related random events will no longer trigger if you already have the modifier they give.
- Fixed +10 colonist on arrival exploit by restricting it to if colony has below 10 settlers.
- To get 25% of province counting towards religious unity it's enough with 0.0 tolerance (as opposed to above 0.0 tolerance).
- Moved order of checks for attack natives tooltip so that the more obvious resons (such as no natives being in the province) are prioritized to display to user.
- Fixed Queen Isabel's dynasty name.
- A number of heir and monarch related events introduced with CS now check that you're not a junior partner in a union.
- Effects of enacted Parliament Issues are now removed when changing government.
- Build All Mercenaries button will use up mercenary pool corresponding to the number of regiments started (thus fixing a clear exploit where more mercenaries than available could be built).

ObadiahtheSlim

2015-06-26, 01:29 PM

I'm going to miss the semi-weekly Kongo is the Emperor posts on reddit.

OrcusMcP

2015-06-26, 01:35 PM

Godspeed you, Black Emperor.

#sorrynotsorry

Flickerdart

2015-06-26, 02:39 PM

I'm going to miss the semi-weekly Kongo is the Emperor posts on reddit.
Context? I've never heard of this or why it's going away.

rweird

2015-06-26, 02:41 PM

Context? I've never heard of this or why it's going away.

Electors no longer can vote for countries with capitals on other continents with the update.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2015-06-26, 02:50 PM

Used to be that, if Protestantism was particularly strong, or for some other reason the number of possible Catholic Emperors dwindled enough, Kongo would be voted Emperor (sometimes without even being visible), as Kongo gets some events, iirc, to convert it to Catholic.

GnomeGninjas

2015-06-28, 01:53 PM

Is Westernization worth it as a Muslim tech group country? I'll soon have an opportunity in my Semien game but I'm not sure if I should take it.

Is that a trend? I've never seen anyone use it except when talking about the Ottoman Empire in EU.

Likewise, I've never heard it any way other than "remove kebab" specifically referring to destroying the Ottoman Empire.

Exactly this. There are no other connotations to it. Austria being referred to as weisswurst really made my day when I was browsing reddit.

EDIT: apparently Weisswurst is Bavarian, so Austria probably should be referred by another food. Maybe Wiener Schnitzel...

"Remove Kebab" was a line in a Yugoslav War propaganda video that later went viral on the internet. Since the original usage refers to genocide of Muslim Bosnians, many find it distasteful, even if used in a completely non-Yugoslav war context, such as EU4.

Eldan

2015-06-28, 01:57 PM

OrcusMcP

2015-06-28, 04:19 PM

Is Westernization worth it as a Muslim tech group country? I'll soon have an opportunity in my Semien game but I'm not sure if I should take it.

If you plan on fighting the westerners a bunch, then it's probably worth it if only to keep pace. Otherwise you probably don't need it.

MrConsideration

2015-06-29, 06:23 AM

I would advise against Westernising. The loss of monarch points for the actual Westernisation won't be much less than your savings unless you do it fairly early as a Muslim, and it opens up a huge amount of risk. Muslims troops aren't much weaker than Western.

It depends on your objectives though. If you're a Tunisia that wants to go toe-to-toe with France, it might be necessary. If you're playing the Mughals, not at all.

Grif

2015-06-29, 07:26 AM

Lesson learned. Austria's PU mission against Bohemia is a death trap currently. The resultant coalition is scary.

MrConsideration

2015-06-29, 08:33 AM

Especially after Common Sense - very minor HRE states have pretty impressive armies now.

OrcusMcP

2015-06-29, 08:36 AM

Indeed. The HRE is a much more interesting and dangerous place now, for sure. In my current Dutch game the emperor is a massive Palatinate.

AgentPaper

2015-06-29, 07:11 PM

rweird

2015-06-29, 07:23 PM

I think a good way to handle that would be to shrink them down a bit before you press the union. Could take a few provinces yourself, or better yet give them to an ally in the war, like Brandenburg, then declare war later on to get the cores back.

If you really want to be evil, give all but one of Bohemia's provinces to some OPM like Anhalt or whatever, then form a union over the OPM Bohemia. Then laugh as rebels break Anhalt and return all those cores to your vassal, AE free.

It'd give Bohemia a bunch of Liberty Desire if rebels return provinces but it could work. You could Demand Unlawful Imperial Territory from Anhalt or whatever to increase revolt risk if you do that. Also, you could press Bohemia's reconquest CB on Anhalt or whoever, and if you have them Return Cores, it wouldn't give any AE (and only 25% for normal cede provinces).

ObadiahtheSlim

2015-06-30, 06:43 AM

Give most provinces to a OPM. Break Alliance and join coalition against them. Take cores back in resulting coalition war.

Grif

2015-06-30, 06:55 AM

Honestly, I'd wouldn't have pressed that PU if not for the achievement. (Get 3 PUs as Austria.)

Otherwise, the far better method is to revoke the Privilegia and have them as your vassal anyway.

mythmonster2

2015-06-30, 06:26 PM

For those interested, a 1.13 beta has been released, if you want to access it early.

Grif

2015-07-01, 03:01 AM

For those interested, a 1.13 beta has been released, if you want to access it early.

It appears both coring and colonial range calculation has been FUBARed in this patch. So I wouldn't recommend starting this just yet. (Although you can "cheat" by taking advantage of the fact no Europeans is going to colonise anyway ever.)

Akisa

2015-07-02, 09:19 PM

It appears both coring and colonial range calculation has been FUBARed in this patch. So I wouldn't recommend starting this just yet. (Although you can "cheat" by taking advantage of the fact no Europeans is going to colonise anyway ever.)

While coring range was messed up this patch coring cost was broke in 1.12 ;p

Grif

2015-07-02, 11:38 PM

While coring range was messed up this patch coring cost was broke in 1.12 ;p

It appears to be intentional on the dev's part. So yeah...

In any case, I decided on a far more relaxing French game. Turns out Elan isn't as gamebreaking when you aren't the AI rolling god generals. (Spain far outnumbers me, and has both Naples and Aragon integrated. Gonna have to start breaking up the yellow blob into their constituent pieces.)

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/448455387649761658/E116B8BE6A930B21C166B45F96036F812EE08E6E/

Eldan

2015-07-03, 07:17 AM

My Portugal game is going weirdly. I had an early war against Castille with my ally Aragon and we got them to release Leon, which is my march. This had the side effect that I was 50 years or so ahead of anyone else in the colonizing game and Spain never got a single colony. All of Africa is mine (though I haven't conquered anyone), no one else can even reach India and the Spice Islands yet, I have all of Brazil and all of the Carribean, while England has Newfoundland and France has part of Colombia.
Meanwhile, Castille is gone and Leon, my March, pretty much has all the territory they need to form Spain, now.

Few other weird happenings... the pope controls all of Northern Italy, including Venice. Brunswick vassalized Denmark. England formed Great Britain without Scotland. Tunis conquered the Mamluks and Morocco, for total dominance of North Africa.

And I'm filthy rich.

Leecros

2015-07-03, 09:47 AM

In any case, I decided on a far more relaxing French game. Turns out Elan isn't as gamebreaking when you aren't the AI rolling god generals. (Spain far outnumbers me, and has both Naples and Aragon integrated. Gonna have to start breaking up the yellow blob into their constituent pieces.)

well, it makes sense. The reason why AI France is so menacing is because the AI has a tendency to build larger armies than they can fund and then they keep the maintenance slider all the way down unless they need their troops. Also as a lucky nation, France would get +1 fire/shock and the AI is more inclined to use their rulers as generals and rulers have a tendency to be better in general. Also as a lucky nation and an AI they would get +2 leader slots. Giving them more leaders to choose from.

This really holds to every lucky nation AI. Unless you have those settings off(in which case you can't do Ironman), it's why the AI has a tendency to always have a proportionally larger army and better generals than a human player with the same land.

rweird

2015-07-03, 11:30 AM

Also, lucky nations get faster manpower recovery and cheaper mercs allowing them to expand their armies further in times of war, and more Monarch Points, so they typically have good tech, and can complete idea groups more quickly.

They also are less likely to get internal problems (+1 yearly Republican Tradition/Legitimacy, -1 national unrest). Lastly, loans are less damaging to them, as they have -1% interest.

Players can outdo lucky nations by expanding faster than they do.

Grif

2015-07-03, 01:37 PM

well, it makes sense. The reason why AI France is so menacing is because the AI has a tendency to build larger armies than they can fund and then they keep the maintenance slider all the way down unless they need their troops. Also as a lucky nation, France would get +1 fire/shock and the AI is more inclined to use their rulers as generals and rulers have a tendency to be better in general. Also as a lucky nation and an AI they would get +2 leader slots. Giving them more leaders to choose from.

This really holds to every lucky nation AI. Unless you have those settings off(in which case you can't do Ironman), it's why the AI has a tendency to always have a proportionally larger army and better generals than a human player with the same land.

Also, lucky nations get faster manpower recovery and cheaper mercs allowing them to expand their armies further in times of war, and more Monarch Points, so they typically have good tech, and can complete idea groups more quickly.

They also are less likely to get internal problems (+1 yearly Republican Tradition/Legitimacy, -1 national unrest). Lastly, loans are less damaging to them, as they have -1% interest.

Players can outdo lucky nations by expanding faster than they do.

At least these lucky nations serve as a major roadblock to a good player. I have to say though, 10% discipline makes a huge difference. I unlocked both my ambitions and the Quality idea finisher at the same time, and now my armies can go toe-to-toe with an equivalent and come out top.

In other news, this happened. :smallbiggrin:

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/448455622241675688/C719B20EC60DE72AD456AD2F58D8AE38783CBBDF/

So, guys, what should I do with my unlimited power?

Grytorm

2015-07-03, 02:44 PM

Rearrange the North Coast of Africa alphabetically?

Artanis

2015-07-03, 03:10 PM

At least these lucky nations serve as a major roadblock to a good player. I have to say though, 10% discipline makes a huge difference. I unlocked both my ambitions and the Quality idea finisher at the same time, and now my armies can go toe-to-toe with an equivalent and come out top.

In other news, this happened. :smallbiggrin:

*snip picture*

So, guys, what should I do with my unlimited power?
The first order of business is to pull the trigger on the League War. During/after that, you build up enough IA to push through the reforms to make Emperorship hereditary.

Then you rearrange the north coast of Africa to spell "Grif is awesome".

OrcusMcP

2015-07-03, 03:44 PM

You must arrange the Holy Roman Empire map view so that it looks like the French flag.

Eldan

2015-07-03, 03:51 PM

Hm. Is there anything that shows up Yellow in any map view?

IthilanorStPete

2015-07-03, 07:13 PM

Hm. Is there anything that shows up Yellow in any map view?

HRE provinces held by non-HRE members show up with yellow stripes in the HRE map. Provinces with unrest can show up as yellw in the revolt risk map, but that's not really workable.

rweird

2015-07-03, 09:28 PM

Hm. Is there anything that shows up Yellow in any map view?

Opinion map mode, you are blue, a neutralish opinion is yellow.

Artanis

2015-07-03, 09:54 PM

Hm. Is there anything that shows up Yellow in any map view?

There's a couple of HRE minors that are yellow.

Grif

2015-07-03, 11:39 PM

General question. How do I force the Peace of Westphalia? I may be Catholic for now, but it's tempting to just flip Protestant to get a customisable Christian religion instead. (There's also the fact that Bohemia and Denmark, both in the Protestant League are my best buds.)

Artanis

2015-07-04, 12:29 AM

Grif

2015-07-04, 02:20 AM

IIRC, that happens if the League War goes on for too long without anybody winning.

Hm okay. I read forcing a white peace does that too, so I can do that easily. (Beat down Bohemia with PLC, Austria, Kebab and myself, beat down Spain. Ez win.) That also removes the heretic prince modifier, so IA should be easier to get.

Akisa

2015-07-04, 11:52 PM

It appears to be intentional on the dev's part. So yeah...

In any case, I decided on a far more relaxing French game. Turns out Elan isn't as gamebreaking when you aren't the AI rolling god generals. (Spain far outnumbers me, and has both Naples and Aragon integrated. Gonna have to start breaking up the yellow blob into their constituent pieces.)

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/448455387649761658/E116B8BE6A930B21C166B45F96036F812EE08E6E/

Yeah it was supposed to be a joke.

OrcusMcP

2015-07-07, 07:48 PM

Out of curiosity, would anyone be interested in a multiplayer session at some point? Perhaps document our horrible happenings?

mythmonster2

2015-07-07, 09:43 PM

Out of curiosity, would anyone be interested in a multiplayer session at some point? Perhaps document our horrible happenings?

I'd be interested, though I've never done a multiplayer game.

AgentPaper

2015-07-07, 09:49 PM

Out of curiosity, would anyone be interested in a multiplayer session at some point? Perhaps document our horrible happenings?

Definitely interested. Been wanting to try multiplayer for a while now. I can play basically any day except for Monday, noon to midnight pacific time.

Pahvimato

2015-07-07, 11:37 PM

I'm currently in a multiplayer game with 4 other gitp users. We are currently almost almost in 1700 or so, and making steady progress. If this game is finished, I would be interested, and I'd assume some of the others might be as well. I can play on pretty much any day at almost any time, although some Tuesdays I might be reserved for other stuff.

mythmonster2

2015-07-08, 03:46 AM

How do DLCs work in multiplayer in EU4? I've heard that if the host has a DLC enabled, all players have access to it.

Grif

2015-07-08, 03:49 AM

I'd love to join, but my weird timezone (GMT+8) would probably put paid to any plan.

Pahvimato

2015-07-08, 04:17 AM

Yes. If hosts has a DLC enabled, everyone will have it. I, for one, have all the major DLC, so I can host if needed.

Grif

2015-07-13, 08:17 AM

Have I won the game, guys? :smallbiggrin:

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/455211726451324508/8F05FB22B5850BBCA02198431248D856C26A03EB/

super dark33

2015-07-13, 08:51 AM

No. GBR looks reletivly unharmed.

Still WOWIE WOW.
Not only renovating the empire will make you a mighty Double Cultural union, but will make you the second Charlamagne!

Flickerdart

2015-07-13, 09:01 AM

Poland-Lithuania looks pretty strong, as does Britain and the Ottomans. Before you can rest easy, you must crush them under your big blue boot!

Double Cultural union
Wuzzat?

super dark33

2015-07-13, 09:04 AM

Wuzzat?

France is a cultural union country of the french cultures, as in no penelties to stuff. Likewise are HRE and Germany to the german cultures, italy for italians etc etc

So a french renovated empire should have both cultures as a union.

Guancyto

2015-07-13, 09:49 AM

Why would you renovate the Empire when you can have a free giant vassal swarm instead?

Flickerdart

2015-07-13, 10:12 AM

France is a cultural union country of the french cultures, as in no penelties to stuff. Likewise are HRE and Germany to the german cultures, italy for italians etc etc

So a french renovated empire should have both cultures as a union.
Ah right, I forgot about accepted culture penalties. Usually I enact a brutal campaign of force cultural conversion whenever I have the chance.

Grif

2015-07-13, 10:48 AM

I'm preeeeeeeeetty sure you can only have one cultural union at any one time, and forming the HRE just switches yours to the Germanic cultural union instead. (Which would be a blasphemy for a French HRE.)

EDIT:

Catholic France with Humanism and its national ideas is able to get maximum tolerance in both heathens and heretics. Interesting!

ObadiahtheSlim

2015-07-13, 12:41 PM

France is a cultural union country of the french cultures, as in no penelties to stuff. Likewise are HRE and Germany to the german cultures, italy for italians etc etc

So a french renovated empire should have both cultures as a union.

No, you just get German. I played a Castlie game. When I switched from Spain to HRE, my spanish minorities suddenly were no longer accepted. My primary culture was still my primary culture though.

Grif

2015-07-13, 12:55 PM

Why would you renovate the Empire when you can have a free giant vassal swarm instead?

For those of you who doubt his words. This is what happened when I declared on the pink blob.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/455211726452101578/5886C3F23A83B8735838EAEC128C1EA5DB81B559/

They were destroyed in a year. :smallbiggrin:

I think I'll try the Ottos next. Trying to combat their 150 strong navy would be an interesting exercise.

Murska

2015-07-13, 01:43 PM

That's pretty good, but other nations still exist, so I wouldn't call it finished yet.

Maybe do the same thing but start with England and win the HYW first, and be sure to PU Castille /after/ they get Iberian Wedding. Remember also to vassalize Portugal before they colonize anything. That should get you off to a good start.

Leecros

2015-07-13, 08:57 PM

Why would you renovate the Empire when you can have a free giant vassal swarm instead?

Because it's nice to paint the map your color?

Admittedly it is technically best to wait until 1820 though....However, i know from experience that that button is quite enticing.

tonberrian

2015-07-13, 09:02 PM

Because it's nice to paint the map your color?

Admittedly it is technically best to wait until 1820 though....However, i know from experience that that button is quite enticing.

All I know is that i get upset with all the penalties the reforms give you and I'll clear them away asap.

Grif

2015-07-13, 09:03 PM

All I know is that i get upset with all the penalties the reforms give you and I'll clear them away asap.

Reforms have penalties? :smallconfused: (It doesn't, as of 1.12.)

EDIT: Admittedly, being locked at duchy rank is sorta annoying.

tonberrian

2015-07-13, 09:07 PM

Reforms have penalties? :smallconfused: (It doesn't, as of 1.12.)

EDIT: Admittedly, being locked at duchy rank is sorta annoying.

Admittedly I haven't played as HRE for a few patches.

rweird

2015-07-13, 09:35 PM

EDIT: Admittedly, being locked at duchy rank is sorta annoying.

If your capital isn't in the HRE, I don't think that limit applies.

Grif

2015-07-14, 12:13 AM

If your capital isn't in the HRE, I don't think that limit applies.

Yeah, it doesn't. But I had to add my capital to the HRE to keep myself elected. But in theory, you can remain outside the HRE and keep your government rank.

super dark33

2015-07-14, 11:44 AM

If all your provinces except the capital are in the HRE, depending on the number of provinces (In france's case, a lot.), there is a reduction to monthly IA (in france's case, A WHOLE DANG LOT).

Flickerdart

2015-07-14, 12:01 PM

Do you actually lose anything if you add your provinces to the HRE? If you get de-elected, you still keep them right?

Pahvimato

2015-07-14, 12:27 PM

The only thing you lose is an easy way to get IA. I'd add them only when you need only a few points in order to get the next reform. This because as the game goes on, gaining IA becomes harder. There will be less princes around, more heretic princes, and so on. Especially the ban on internal HRE wars can have an effect on this.

One thing to consider, which might be a positive or negative depending on your situation, any countries released from that territory someone has made a part of the HRE will now be a prince in the HRE. For example, if you add all the cores of Wallachia, a released Wallachia will be in the HRE.

Other than that, not really.

Grif

2015-07-16, 12:18 AM

There will be less princes around, more heretic princes, and so on.

If you don't mind taking a relation hit, then enforcing religious unity is the way to go, especially if you haven't taken religious ideas. Them refusing your emperor action will give you a free CB. The other option is of course, using claim fabrication just for the CB and then forcing religion at the end. Proxy wars to force religion on allies only works for OPMs or less developed princes. (I think the threshold is 50 development. Beyond that it gets too expensive, and cost more than 100% WS.)

Pahvimato

2015-07-16, 12:32 AM

Grif

2015-07-16, 05:52 AM

In order to ask them to convert, you will have to establish an official religion. If you are blobbing fast enough, they will not declare the religious war on you due to being threatened. In this case, you as the emperor will have to wait until the 1630s or so before an official religion is established in the empire, even without the religious war ever firing.

Personally I still use the diplomatic option as the last option, as it lowers your IA, which is what you are trying to avoid in the first place. If you can get some other CB on them, using that might be the best course of action.

I find it useful for those who can't avoid the Reformation, and for OPMs you really can't be bothered to war with. That said, it is true it should be considered an action of last resort.

In other news, I finally got around to trying to get the Basileus achievement. Seems to be going well, so far.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/447330755863499651/13EE14BC847E511982D592C6A9C03C1BEB7879EE/

Leecros

2015-07-16, 06:47 AM

In other news, I finally got around to trying to get the Basileus achievement. Seems to be going well, so far.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/447330755863499651/13EE14BC847E511982D592C6A9C03C1BEB7879EE/

Nice. When i got the achievement, i found that the hardest part was pushing The Ottomans out of The Balkans. So it's possible that you have the hardest part out of the way.

Although i could see The Mamluks or Qara Qoyunlu causing issues if they suddenly started pushing into Anatolia.

Grif

2015-07-16, 09:55 AM

Nice. When i got the achievement, i found that the hardest part was pushing The Ottomans out of The Balkans. So it's possible that you have the hardest part out of the way.

Although i could see The Mamluks or Qara Qoyunlu causing issues if they suddenly started pushing into Anatolia.

Nah, both will be pushovers by the time you get to that. Hordes having low miltech, and Mams just being paper tigers in my experience. Dangerous from first look, and up to the first battle. Win the that one decisively, and they'll be toothless for the rest of the war.

Grif

2015-07-18, 03:50 AM

Bit of a double post, but eh.

Basileus achievement.
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/447330979165947748/6A8CB161FE4DEBFE78D4050B2D6198B8AF2DA946/

Pentarchy restored. Take that pope!
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/447330979165948712/86EFD2CFA41A5D43C7B563ED8E44F142ED2C5F77/

My biggest limiting factor at going for the achievement at this patch? Paper mana. Goddamn coring costs really suck prior to the advent of admin efficiency.

Leecros

2015-07-18, 05:24 AM

Basileus achievement.
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/447330979165947748/6A8CB161FE4DEBFE78D4050B2D6198B8AF2DA946/

Congrats.

My first thoughts when i managed the achievement was "Yes! Now i never have to play Byzantium again unless i want to!"

Eldan

2015-07-18, 06:31 AM

Grif

2015-07-18, 07:06 AM

Seriously, how does one do that. I've tried a few times. It always went the same way.

1. Start game.
2. Make alliances with Poland/Lithuania/venice/Austria/Hungary whoever is around and willing.
3. Ottomans attack
4. All alies decide they'd rather not help because they are occupied or scared
5. Lose

Any BYZ game will be partly based on luck. But on the whole, you should be allying only PLC and Austria/Aragon at most. Hungary, Venice and Serbia (and any other OPMs you see in the region) are worthless as allies, and would not help. (I'm also not super fond of Austria as allies. They usually drag you into too many unnecessary wars.) Aside from that, timing is important. For this game, I had the fortune to be able to time my wardec when the Ottos were occupied elsewhere, but I also been on the end of a ill-timed wardec and get crushed as a result.

rweird

2015-07-18, 08:51 AM

From my understanding, you get allies and declare on Ottomans when your allies will help, and Ottos are at war with someone else.

Frog Dragon

2015-07-18, 12:18 PM

Gave Ethiopia a shot, and turns out it's kind of easymode. Sure, being a Copt surrounded by Muslims means you generally get very few alliances (can still probably nab rivals of rivals), but Ethiopia is stronger than all of its neighbors right out of the gate, so you can just day 1 DoW fools and have no problem. Mamluks are stronger, but you don't have to deal with them right away, and by the time they neighbor you, you can fight them off. And when I played, they didn't even try to fight me, despite mutual rivalry.

Religious ideas are basically mandatory and hilariously good. No-one shares your religion, so you can holy war literally everyone. Armenia is the only other Coptic country, and they will never last. You will also be converting tons of muslims.

It's not even 1600, the mamluks have been carved to ribbons, and I'm far from out of soft targets.

OrcusMcP

2015-07-18, 12:33 PM

Pahvimato

2015-07-19, 02:25 PM

In the year 1764 of their lord, we got bored of the whole invasion thing and decided to head back home.
http://i.imgur.com/AE70DSg.jpg

I think I finished the actual achievement by 1740 or so. I had the largest army of all the Americas/Europe by 1600 thanks to development. The natives can just spend all of their monarch points to develop stuff, as technology is worthless for them. This might change in the next patch, as all natives will get +100% cost to all development. Taking over random provinces in the east is also pretty easy as the Aztecs, as you start from the only place nobody on the map has explored. Once you find the Europeans, it won't take long until you see the whole map.

The new buildings are just silly as well, with the amount of light ships they let you build you can dominate all the trade in the world. Almost every single ducat in the naval nodes is now flowing towards the English Channel.

Other interesting stuff to note on the map: Karelia being independent in Neva, Sapmi being independent in Lappland, super Nassau, Russia killing everything, Revolutionary France, and the existance of Croatia in 1764.

I think I'll go for that Byzantine achievement next, or perhaps Norwegian Wood. We shall see.

ObadiahtheSlim

2015-07-20, 01:49 PM

rweird

2015-07-20, 02:31 PM

It's even better. Defender of teh Faith loses it's worse downside. You never get called into wars becuase you're the only Coptic nation.

The +5% tech cost is the typical thing that stops me from taking it, but the monthly WE decrease can really come in handy.

Grif

2015-07-20, 08:28 PM

The +5% tech cost is the typical thing that stops me from taking it, but the monthly WE decrease can really come in handy.

That works out to be what, 30 mana points for each tech? Hardly a punishing penalty, and the prize is so good.

OrcusMcP

2015-07-20, 08:48 PM

Especially now that prestige is harder to come by, DotF looks more and more tempting.

Frog Dragon

2015-07-21, 03:08 AM

I actually didn't go DotF. I remembered from a way older version that it disables your Holy War casus belli, which would've been less than ideal. Is this no longer the case?

Finished the Ethiopia run in any case. Couldn't one-tag Africa because I was too slow and sloppy, so I created two client states to deal with some of it. Did conquer all of it though (well, there are three uncolonized provinces left). Had to fight pretty much every even somewhat significant European country to secure South Africa and West Africa. Taking the cape was particularly dumb because I actually had to send my fleet of heavies to blockade London for them to agree to give me the provinces in Africa.

http://i.imgur.com/MJT1QUI.jpg
I imaginatively named then "Western Ethiopia Protectorate" and "North Ethiopia Protectorate".

http://i.imgur.com/zHl3M4S.jpg
Too bad Client States don't convert for you.

http://i.imgur.com/sdWpEF7.jpg
Also got #1 score, which doesn't seem to happen very often.

IthilanorStPete

2015-07-21, 04:31 PM

Frog Dragon

2015-07-22, 05:14 AM

Never played Vic, but my first instinct is that no-one could possibly challenge my Ethiopia on its home turf at this point. Or does Vic advantage Europeans that much?

OrcusMcP

2015-07-22, 05:46 AM

Never played Vic, but my first instinct is that no-one could possibly challenge my Ethiopia on its home turf at this point. Or does Vic advantage Europeans that much?

Are you westernized? If so, you'd probably be ok, but Europe might push you around a bit due to faster industrialization.

Africa has a lot of cash crop in the early game, and little in the way of industrial goods. Your industrialization would be slow, but you'd have crap tons of money to import what you needed. In the late game you'll get rubber and oil and suddenly everyone will become very interested.

Frog Dragon

2015-07-22, 05:59 AM

I didn't westernize because I figured that it wasn't really advantageous to play towards being able to do so (+40% tech cost doesn't even compare that unfavorably with the costs of westernization) and by the time it was possible to westernize, it was no longer worth it.

IthilanorStPete

2015-07-22, 06:12 AM

Never played Vic, but my first instinct is that no-one could possibly challenge my Ethiopia on its home turf at this point. Or does Vic advantage Europeans that much?

Depends on the current state of the rest of the world and how the converter handles things. Ethiopia would probably be westernized, so there's not a huge disadvantage, but if you end up with a bunch of non-accepted culture POPs with low literacy, that'll make for major internal problems by the time Europeans come calling.

Mabn

2015-07-22, 08:27 PM

how do you start a religious league? I'm emperor and 2/3 of the empire is a different religion but for some reason even with deus volt and 100% warscore I can force religion on anyone. :smallsigh:

Grytorm

2015-07-22, 09:22 PM

Hmm started playing the Ottomons and joined a pretty stupid war with my allies the Serbians. And now my armies are pretty tanked which is sad. But that is not why I am posting.

I just reached my second idea group and was planning on going with Diplomatic. I already maxed out Quantity and have enough to buy at least two ideas right away. So what should I go with for ideas?

OrcusMcP

2015-07-22, 09:40 PM

Diplomatic is ~"ok"~ for Ottomans, but you may want to consider the following:

-Espionage will actually be useful for you. Lots of enemies on all flanks makes for lots of uses for spies, plus bonus power projection.
-Trade. Constantinople can intake trade from a lot of places, so having bonuses to it will give you lots of income.
-Influence may work better for your goals than Diplomatic

Artanis

2015-07-22, 09:48 PM

Isn't Humanist supposedly good on the Ottomans as well, what with all the zillions of cultures they'll be annexing?

Grytorm

2015-07-22, 09:58 PM

Thanks for the advice. Bit confusing statement, I meant going with a Diplomatic idea group. Not the Diplomatic idea group. That is a bit weird (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0012.html).

I probably will get Humanist eventually.

Guancyto

2015-07-22, 10:33 PM

Reduced aggressive expansion, cheaper diploannexation, a massive reduction to diplo cost for peace treaties, and more money and forcelimit from your vassals?

If Influence Ideas had a diplomat it'd be perfect for the Ottoblob. It's still close to perfect.

(Alternatively, get Exploration, beat up Portugal and Spain for their islands and create the Turkish Americas!)

rweird

2015-07-22, 11:27 PM

I think Influence, Trade, or Exploration (only if you want to care about the new world and stuff) all are good. Influence is good if you want to take vassals (either annex and release, force vassalize, or diplo-vassalize). Taking it early gives maximum benefit (fewer dip points spent on annexation gives more back the more you annex with it).

I don't exactly get trade in EU4 (my tactic is pretty much blob a lot, and eventually all the trade will come to you), but I've read trade ideas are good for making a strong economy.

Murska

2015-07-23, 01:38 AM

You'll want the coring cost reduction from... Administrative, was it? As soon as possible. It's crucial for the Ottomans.

Eldan

2015-07-23, 03:34 AM

That too, coring is expensive as **** in the newer patches.

That said, never underestimate that -2 unrest from humanism II. It's pure gold. Humanism also has some very good policies with other idea groups. I especially like the Liberation Act, which is Humanist/Offensive and gives -1 national unrest and -5 years of Separatism.

Exploring Ottomans are a bit of a late-game thing, but they can make a bid for the Indies if they conquer their way to the Gulf of Aden or through Persia.

Grif

2015-07-23, 05:16 AM

Humanist France. Exactly as good as it sounds. :smallwink:
http://i.imgur.com/ltjCaG6.png
Religion? What's that?

I wonder what other nation can do this?

Guancyto

2015-07-23, 01:44 PM

rweird

2015-07-23, 07:19 PM

Yeah, the big winners this patch have been Quantity and Administrative. Mo' men, mo' mercenaries, less problems.

Plenty of nations can do that for heretics or heathens (Poland for heretics, Ottomans for heathens), but I think only Humanist+Edict of Nantes France can do it for both.

If a nation goes reformed and gets +3 tolerance of heathens from national ideas/traditions/ambitions (Granada conceivably could do that). Humanist Semien effectively does as well, as they have no heretics, and +3 tolerance of heathens in tradition.

lsfreak

2015-07-27, 05:18 PM

how do you start a religious league? I'm emperor and 2/3 of the empire is a different religion but for some reason even with deus volt and 100% warscore I can force religion on anyone. :smallsigh:

In case you still need this answered, religious leagues form automatically after 1550 if there's a Protestant elector. Then the Protestant league leader can declare a war on the emperor to try and switch religions; a white peace ends up with peace of Westphalia (but from what I saw of one of my games, there's still an IA penalty for heretic members?). If the leagues form but war never triggers (usually because the Catholic side is too strong), after 30 years there's a chance for it to automatically declare in the emperor's favor. This event happens after an average of 60 months of the emperor being at peace, once the 30 years is up. If leagues never form in the first place, it's automatically declared in the emperor's favor after ~1625.

You should be able to force religion, but keep in mind it's their province warscore cost in order to force-convert, so if they're not co-belligerents or very large at all it won't be possible unless you release nations or otherwise size them down first. They also might end up rapidly converting back due to still having a bunch of Protestant provinces or nearby centers of reformation switching all their provinces back anyways (especially if you're still in 1.12 where centers of reformation ignore the -100% missionary strength that was supposed to keep exactly that from happening).

Eldan

2015-07-27, 06:00 PM

My Prussia game is interesting in the religious aspect. We never had a league war. There were tensions for a while, between the Catholic South (Austria, Bohemia, Bavaria, a lot of minors, with their allies France, Spain and the Pope who has united Italy and the PLC) and the Protestant North (Prussia, I conquered everything almost to the Netherlands, Mainz, who controls most of the middle, the newly united Netherlands and our allies, United Scandinavia and an England which wasn't doing so hot and wasn't even close to being GB.) I think we could have won the war, but it would have been interesting, as they had massive advantage in numbers (probably 3 or 4 to 1), while we were several tech levels ahead on average, with better discipline and morale and much more money.
In the end, no one declared the league war and the catholics declared a win by default. So now, the electors are Austria, Bohemia and a few no-name one province minors like Salzburg and Ravensburg, while Prussia is slowly eating the whole Empire and Poland both. It's 1640 and about half the Empire is mine. I'll get the rest later.

Grif

2015-07-27, 09:54 PM

Now playing a tall/lazy Portugal colony game.

Gotta love the Treaty of Torsedillas. Not only do I get to lock out every other potential Catholic coloniser just by rushing a CN in the colonial region, I also get a bonus to colonising. Poor Spain is currently limited to Canada, and France limited to Peru.

Only wrench in my plans is a protestant GB colonising my Caribbean and Colombia. I need to smack them down later.

Grytorm

2015-07-28, 12:53 AM

I was weak and quit the Ottoman game in order to start a game with Pasai. So far I have almost formed Malay, missing only two counties and have begun to colonize Australia. Perhaps I will island hop my way to America if possible while hoping that the Europeans don't show up and take my toys away.

Edit: And the Ainu might take over japan.

Leecros

2015-07-28, 07:21 AM

Having fun in a nice little Savoy game that i have going. I've taken down all of my major rivals(outside of you know...France and Austria) to the point where they're not threatening me and have a nice set of alliances with France, Castile(with unions over Aragon and Naples), and Poland-Lithuania.

Unfortunately, i can't turn all of this power against a Strong Austria(Burgundian Inheritance+PU with Hungary, because i'm stuck in Defensive Hell.All three nations have a defensive attitude towards me and only France has the trust level enough to overcome that attitude. On the bright side...at least i'm safe from attack for now. There's lots of strong powers in the game; It's certainly interesting.

ObadiahtheSlim

2015-07-28, 09:36 AM

And then France takes the Incorporate Savoy mission and suddenly desires every province you have.

Flickerdart

2015-07-28, 09:39 AM

Edit: And the Ainu might take over japan.
Damn, how did that happen? Every game I've had in the region, they got crushed.

Grif

2015-07-28, 10:26 AM

Damn, how did that happen? Every game I've had in the region, they got crushed.

A unified Ming might have smacked around Japan and forced to spit out Ainu. Who then rofl-stomps what remains of Japan. Yes, I seen it happen.

Flickerdart

2015-07-28, 12:19 PM

A unified Ming might have smacked around Japan and forced to spit out Ainu. Who then rofl-stomps what remains of Japan. Yes, I seen it happen.

Ah, that would explain it. Come to think of it, in my games in the area I'm usually either bashing Ming, Japan, or the Ainu myself (and sometimes all three!) so maybe things just need time to develop.

Leecros

2015-07-28, 12:40 PM

And then France takes the Incorporate Savoy mission and suddenly desires every province you have.

I certainly suspect that at any given moment. However, I'm hoping that my alliances with Poland-Lithuania, the Spanish Conglomeration, and Bohemia(the current HREmperor) Deter that from happening.

Artanis

2015-07-29, 04:39 PM

Is it just me, or is Austria having a REALLY hard time staying Emperor since the patch?

Eldan

2015-07-29, 04:43 PM

Artanis

2015-07-29, 05:40 PM

I've never seen them as Emperor beyond the first few years. It's always Bohemia after the first election and then they usually stay in power, unless something very dramatic happens (center of Reformation in Prague, for example.)

Yeah, even before, Austria usually didn't hold on for all that long, but now it seems like they don't stand a chance whatsoever. I'm talking like having to fight tooth and nail just to win one single elector away from the likes of Nassau or Wurttemberg, much less the ~3 it'd take to beat Bohemia :smallconfused:

Grif

2015-07-29, 07:43 PM

Is it just me, or is Austria having a REALLY hard time staying Emperor since the patch?

Beta or stable one?

I've never seen them as Emperor beyond the first few years. It's always Bohemia after the first election and then they usually stay in power, unless something very dramatic happens (center of Reformation in Prague, for example.)

Never seen them had a problem myself. They seem to only lose it after doing some hilarious derpy stuff like swallowing Bavaria whole or falling into PU of Hungary.

Eldan

2015-07-29, 07:58 PM

My Prussia game is rather hilarious at the moment.

THere's four princes left in the Empire.

Austria is the Emperor.
Bavaria is the sole Elector.
Switzerland is Reformed.
Prussia (all the rest is annexed) is Protestant.

The House of Hohenzollern also rules Sweden and England, but since those countries are NotGerman (tm), no one cares.

Artanis

2015-07-29, 08:20 PM

Beta or stable one?
Stable. I've read that the beta patch messes with the electors' scoring a bit, but I haven't played it yet.

Never seen them had a problem myself. They seem to only lose it after doing some hilarious derpy stuff like swallowing Bavaria whole or falling into PU of Hungary.
I had similar experiences in the past, with Austria having some competition (namely from Bohemia), but usually managing to hold on to it for a good while until they do something really stupid or get smacked down in a massive war or something. Granted, it's almost inevitable that the AI will eventually do something stupid to cost them the HRE, but still.

Side note - I just started up an Ottomans game earlier today, and ~10 years in Nassau is the current leader with two solid votes, followed by Bohemia with two very tenuous votes. Every single elector is scoring Austria at more than sixty points behind their respective choices.

rweird

2015-07-29, 08:56 PM

In my Muscovy game, Austria kept the Empire (it is around 1560 now), and has never been seriously challenged (although Imperial Authority is almost perpetually at 0, and no reforms have ever been passed).

Artanis

2015-07-29, 09:30 PM

rweird

2015-07-29, 10:16 PM

Did they vassalize some of the electors?

I doubt it (the only vassal is Magdeburg). Considering that Controlling Other Electors is a -50 penalty per elector, my guess would be no.

Strangely enough, Venice was beating them up for a while. I wasn't paying to much attention (after all, Poland and Lithuania were in between me and Germany).

Guancyto

2015-07-29, 10:18 PM

The House of Hohenzollern also rules Sweden and England, but since those countries are NotGerman (tm), no one cares.

I found out something funny about Prussia the other day.

You know how most nation formation decisions have "don't be a subject nation" somewhere in their requirements?

Turns out Prussia isn't actually one of them. In my Great Britain game I grabbed a Brandenburg which had gotten big and then gotten reduced to a OPM, vassalized it as kind of an afterthought to a war on Bohemia, made it a March (bburg is best attack dog) and then fed it its old cores, a bunch of Poland and then what used to be the Teutonic Order before Pomerania took it over. To my great surprise, bam, march turns into Prussia.

I wonder if you could do that with Poland and a Teutonic Order March way earlier in the game... (and if it would be desirable, what with it taking over the baltic sea trade that Britain doesn't care about anyway, and with it requiring certain cores that are also needed to make the Commonwealth, and with it requiring non-catholic religion. Form Commonwealth, then release TO March and feed it?)

Grif

2015-07-29, 10:32 PM

I found out something funny about Prussia the other day.

You know how most nation formation decisions have "don't be a subject nation" somewhere in their requirements?

Turns out Prussia isn't actually one of them. In my Great Britain game I grabbed a Brandenburg which had gotten big and then gotten reduced to a OPM, vassalized it as kind of an afterthought to a war on Bohemia, made it a March (bburg is best attack dog) and then fed it its old cores, a bunch of Poland and then what used to be the Teutonic Order before Pomerania took it over. To my great surprise, bam, march turns into Prussia.

I wonder if you could do that with Poland and a Teutonic Order March way earlier in the game... (and if it would be desirable, what with it taking over the baltic sea trade that Britain doesn't care about anyway)

Jerusalem technically doesn't need to be an independent nation to form as well, but the AI is hard-coded to never take it.

Artanis

2015-08-01, 12:21 PM

So that Ottomans game I mentioned a few posts back? Yeah, Austria lost the HRE to Brandenburg in a landslide, and then later Brandenburg was narrowly re-elected because of the score bonus from having permanent 100 IA due to being unable to get support for reforms. The part that is inspiring me to post, however, is that after Austria lost the Emperor title, they went absolutely f***ing berserk. They've conquered half the minors on their border, repeatedly beaten the daylights out of Bavaria, and bludgeoned Bohemia into a bloody paste. And the funniest part is that they're finally starting to get votes again, and may very well retake the Imperial throne.

"What's that? You don't think I'm good enough to protect you guys? Fine. Let's see how well your buddy Brandenburg can keep a major power from brutally murdering every single one of you!"

Leecros

2015-08-01, 01:21 PM

The part that is inspiring me to post, however, is that after Austria lost the Emperor title, they went absolutely f***ing berserk. They've conquered half the minors on their border, repeatedly beaten the daylights out of Bavaria, and bludgeoned Bohemia into a bloody paste.

I've noticed that this happens fairly often when Austria loses the emperorship. i suppose once they don't have to worry about getting reelected, they figure they can be as much of a jerk as they want to.

Fortunately in my Savoy>Italy(haven't quite formed Italy yet, gotta annex the 93 development Papal State) game, i'm powerful enough to keep them in check. I'm not Emperor(bohemia is), but That's okay. with me to their west, a strong Ottomans to their south and a strong Poland to their north, there's not much wiggle room for them.

Also i always get surprised at how much valuable land there is in italy. I mean, there's Milan, Genoa, Savoie, Firenze, Pisa, Roma, and several other decent provinces all in a very small area. it's funny that it always seems to surprise me too, because i recall one game where the AI managed to form italy and had a comparable army to France...

Grif

2015-08-01, 09:48 PM

Also i always get surprised at how much valuable land there is in italy. I mean, there's Milan, Genoa, Savoie, Firenze, Pisa, Roma, and several other decent provinces all in a very small area. it's funny that it always seems to surprise me too, because i recall one game where the AI managed to form italy and had a comparable army to France...

If you have Common Sense, then the AI usually invests whatever spare mana points they have on development. It can result in some extremely valuable provinces as a result.

(Wallachia also does the same thing, because everyone usually leaves them alone for some reason.)

rweird

2015-08-01, 09:52 PM

If you have Common Sense, then the AI usually invests whatever spare mana points they have on development. It can result in some extremely valuable provinces as a result.

(Wallachia also does the same thing, because everyone usually leaves them alone for some reason.)

Increased Coring Cost makes them unappealing to the AI.

I wonder if it is feasible with Common Sense to make a province so expensive to core that no-one can manage to core it.

Leecros

2015-08-01, 10:03 PM

If you have Common Sense, then the AI usually invests whatever spare mana points they have on development. It can result in some extremely valuable provinces as a result.

I do have Common Sense, but even without it...Italy has several very valuable provinces and many that are less valuable, but still very good.

I wonder if it is feasible with Common Sense to make a province so expensive to core that no-one can manage to core it.

With increased coring costs? I would imagine so, but you would have to invest thousands of Power into a single province which isn't really very economical.

Grif

2015-08-01, 11:24 PM

Increased Coring Cost makes them unappealing to the AI.

I wonder if it is feasible with Common Sense to make a province so expensive to core that no-one can manage to core it.

Caps at 999. You can see if with mid 17th century Prague with full Bohemian + Aristocracy ideas.

Grif

2015-08-07, 01:30 AM

Eldan

2015-08-07, 05:40 AM

Meanwhile, I'm playing Manchu. 1569 and Ming is not falling apart, so I'm keeping myself busy with other things. Namely, uniting all the hordes in the world. (Nogai is my vassal).

http://s4.postimg.org/j0bswqu30/eu4_9.jpg

super dark33

2015-08-07, 07:21 AM

Nearly completed Baltic Crusader. Just need to annex Crimea, and snag a few more provinces off the Golden Horde.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/447332758308012864/0BC9F167235B80D1A5DD21F32687E70F27F58F10/

Putting the russia in prussia.

Meanwhile, I'm playing Manchu. 1569 and Ming is not falling apart, so I'm keeping myself busy with other things. Namely, uniting all the hordes in the world. (Nogai is my vassal).

http://s4.postimg.org/j0bswqu30/eu4_9.jpg

Manchu more like munch u

Eldan

2015-08-07, 07:26 AM

It's what you get for taking Expansion and Offensive ideas. So much vassal feeding. Need to take Humanism next, I have rebellions all over all the time.

Flickerdart

2015-08-07, 09:41 AM

Eldan

2015-08-07, 10:23 AM

Well, their land is actually valuable, instead of just empty. I mean, I could also take India or Persia, but free government reform is very nice.

Grif

2015-08-07, 10:27 AM

With that much land, do you really need Ming to fall apart?

Looks can be deceiving. Those are mostly poor Steppe provinces that also cover a huge area. Ming probably could still field twice his army if they wanted to, and replace them with endless mercs once their manpower is depleted. That's how rich Ming is.

Eldan

2015-08-07, 10:30 AM

Grif

2015-08-07, 10:39 AM

Bit more, currently. I have a standing army of 30000 mostly cavalry (some artillery, very little infantry), up to 40000 if I have a biggish war coming, but that gives me a deficit. Ming seems to hover between 60000 and 80000 in the ledger, and they haven't ever had a war.

However, their discipline and morale is ****, so I think I could take their armies. I'm also reasonably sure they dont' have any military ideas.

The latest patch removed the Inward Perfection debuff, so their morale would be normal-ish, instead of being terrible. Probably not a good idea to pile on them unless you can also generate a 4/4/?/? general or thereabouts.

Sian

2015-08-08, 04:37 PM

Just stumbled over a cool bug. The Truce from revoking a guarantee overwrites whichever other truce you might have with an opponent with a 5year long truce, so you can take for 100 warscore, proclaim guarantee, revoke it again, and you have a truce as if you'd white peaced them

Eldan

2015-08-08, 04:40 PM

rweird

2015-08-08, 05:38 PM

Signs Ming has too much money: I count 35 forts on their map. And I took Beijing and left them with 20 war exhaustion and they still don't have any rebels.

What does it take to lose the mandate of heaven this patch?

Mandate is still stability and legitimacy based, so having really high unrest doesn't revoke it. I think that typically its bad luck (getting stab hit events when low on ADM, or heir death and low legitimacy from the next one), or getting overextended, and those events doing it for you.

Rockphed

2015-08-08, 06:14 PM

Mandate is still stability and legitimacy based, so having really high unrest doesn't revoke it. I think that typically its bad luck (getting stab hit events when low on ADM, or heir death and low legitimacy from the next one), or getting overextended, and those events doing it for you.

So the way to break Ming is to kill off their heirs regularly? Sounds fun!

Eldan

2015-08-08, 06:18 PM

Ah, well. Formed Qing now, gives me claim on all their land, so I can chip away at them the old-fashioned way. With all that land and Beijing, I can now field an army larger than theirs, plus I'm allied to Japan and a Dai Viet that has pretty much covered all of Indochina.

rweird

2015-08-08, 08:55 PM

So the way to break Ming is to kill off their heirs regularly? Sounds fun!

If you could reverse the CK2 EU4 converter, yes. In reality, it pretty much is luck. In my Russia game, its been over 100 years, and Ming has the strongest economy and largest army in the world (I have a larger force limit, but my economy can't support that, while Ming's economy is letting them overbuild force limit).

Rockphed

2015-08-08, 10:22 PM

If you could reverse the CK2 EU4 converter, yes. In reality, it pretty much is luck. In my Russia game, its been over 100 years, and Ming has the strongest economy and largest army in the world (I have a larger force limit, but my economy can't support that, while Ming's economy is letting them overbuild force limit).

Not having EU4 I don't know, but I could swear there was a way to increase death odds of heirs by getting them used as generals and defeating their armies.

Artanis

2015-08-08, 10:30 PM

Grif

2015-08-09, 12:04 AM

Eldan

2015-08-09, 04:31 AM

Not directly, I guess, given that you'd have to be stronger than them to guarantee them.

rweird

2015-08-09, 06:39 AM

A monarch/heir leader can die in battle, with the chance being proportional to how long the battle lasts. The chance is still fairly low though, so you really should have some other reason for war should you choose to attack Ming, and if a ruler/heir dies in battle, all the better.

True, though it still is some sort of choice for the AI to use their heir/leader in battle, and the chance is still rather random (and if you want to wait for them to collapse before fighting, you can't exactly try to kill their heir/leader in battle without fighting them).

Grif

2015-08-09, 07:19 AM

Not directly, I guess, given that you'd have to be stronger than them to guarantee them.

I probably am at this point. Just finished a war to cut their African/Asian possessions from the capital, which immediately dropped their FL and total force to a mere half of mine. Gonna try it later.

Artanis

2015-08-09, 12:22 PM

Well, my Ottomans game got to the "utterly unstoppable green blob" point, so I started a game with a Custom Nation that was basically Ireland + 2 provinces (well, 3, but the Faeroe Islands suck too much to count). I learned that the provinces in Ireland and Scotland suck, and as such have had to spend ~150 years playing the "hide in hills behind a river while France does all the work" game to pick apart England one or two provinces at a time. That process hasn't exactly been sped up by constantly having to ship troops home from overseas due to needing literally half my force limit to conquer anything in the New World :smalltongue:

It's working out in the end though. My overseas wealth has finally let me get the upper hand against England, and I'm now 1 war away from pushing England out of Europe altogether. I've also Treaty of Tortilla-ed Canada, 13 Colonies, Louisiana, Mexico, Caribbean, La Plata, and Peru. Spain has Columbia, Portugal has Brazil (and might get California and Alaska), and England has...Cape of Good Hope and a handful of New World stuff that I keep taking from them.

The biggest long-term problem is that France is getting even more out of control than usual. Their land force limit is already over 125K, so I'm pretty much the only one in the world who could actually win a war against them, and that's solely due to being the only one that the blue swarms can't get to. Not that I'm in any hurry to break my century-long alliance with them.

True, though it still is some sort of choice for the AI to use their heir/leader in battle, and the chance is still rather random (and if you want to wait for them to collapse before fighting, you can't exactly try to kill their heir/leader in battle without fighting them).
Exactly. It seems we're elaborating different parts of something on which we agree :smallwink:

--Killing Ming's ruler/heir in battle can really help hasten their implosion.
--Ming is too big and the chance of killing a ruler/heir in battle is too small to charge off to war half-cocked. "Welp, the truce is over, time to pick a fight for another chance to kill a ruler/heir" is a good way to get horribly slaughtered.
--Thus, if you want to try to kill Ming's ruler/heir in battle, you should wait for a good opportunity to fight*, and then use tactics designed to maximize the chances of killing a ruler (namely causing as many long, drawn-out battles against their ruler/heir-led stack as possible). The AI's nasty habit of putting its ruler/heir on the front lines really helps by making it that much easier to find the S.O.B. :smallwink:

*Elaboration: By this, I don't mean "wait for Ming to rebelsplode". As you say, if the whole point is making something happen, then just waiting for it to happen on its own defeats the purpose. What I mean is the general strategy of starting a war under conditions that will help achieve your real objective. If you want to get rid of a target's troublesome alliance with a Great Power, attack when said Great Power is too distracted to take the call to war and then force the target to annul treaties. If you want to cut down a target naval power, attack when your entire navy is sitting on top of half of their fleet to gank them on day 1. If you want to kill a ruler/heir, find a good time to park in defensible terrain where the enemy has to come dislodge you while you rack up enough warscore elsewhere to peace out before you run out of manpower and money.

Eldan

2015-08-09, 12:34 PM

It's around 1700 now and I'm wondering what next to conquer. Well, coring and annexing wil take another decade or two, probably.

There's Indochina, which is right where my armies are anyway, but they are my only remaining allies. There's India, but I remember from my Mughal game how annoying they are to fight and core. I could go further into Persia, maybe, but that's quite some distance from my new core lands.

Murska

2015-08-09, 01:50 PM

The obvious answer would be 'all of the above'.

Eldan

2015-08-09, 04:15 PM

Went for India first. Didn't take anything major in the campaign, but released a total of four one-province minors which I then vassalized. All have very nice core territories to feed them.

Grif

2015-08-16, 02:05 AM

Sweden is indeed not overpowered. :smallwink:

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/1468524577312789762/AABAC3C796E4F4E614E59E437827F9BCECC532E3/

(After playing Quantity-heavy Teutonic Order, I decided to go full Quality this time around. Luckily, Sweden has reduced merc maintenance, so keeping manpower up isn't as difficult as it appears.)

Eldan

2015-08-16, 04:28 AM

I have a game of Iroquois running in the background while I do other stuff, now. 1535 and I've vassalized or conquered every other tribe in the great lakes/thirteen colonies region. Natives can actually expand like crazy, if done right, their colonists are really cheap and once you get a bit stronger, there is no one on the entire continent who can oppose you. Bit worried since, still no Europeans have shown up and the longer it takes, the more I fall behind.

Closet_Skeleton

2015-08-16, 06:08 PM

Murska

2015-08-16, 06:12 PM

It looks like France is stuck in time, looking at their borders with England. Bonus points for Portuguese Navarra and Pomeranian Fyn.

Grif

2015-08-16, 08:38 PM

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/1474154076850778837/CF3BC903668B6D8C877E13B2710B6B8F2BBF689D/

Persia-Commonwealth-Scandivania is the alliance of death in my way. Hungary-France-Russia are my allies. Tuscany is allied to Hungary, Commonwealth and France, just to complicate things and annoy me. I just wiped out Tunisia a few years ago to before they stopped being overseas if I finally take anatolia.

Next target is hopefully Vienna to finally get out of this tech group.

Eh, no rush getting out of the Eastern tech. Just keep a Western neighbour around for the tech bonus, and you're good to go. Staying Eastern means the hordes in your area can't westernise, and you can vassalise Chinese and Indian tech nations.

Closet_Skeleton

2015-08-17, 02:27 AM

It looks like France is stuck in time, looking at their borders with England. Bonus points for Portuguese Navarra and Pomeranian Fyn.

France has the biggest army in the world but never takes its cores back from Britain.

Eh, no rush getting out of the Eastern tech. Just keep a Western neighbour around for the tech bonus, and you're good to go. Staying Eastern means the hordes in your area can't westernise, and you can vassalise Chinese and Indian tech nations.

I can't get Western Arm's trade without throwing hundreds of Ducats at Hungary and I'm massively strapped for cash. I have no intention of wasting time going into India and China.

My only real concern is that only Austria is stopping the Commonwealth right now.

Eldan

2015-08-17, 07:09 AM

I got a first look at France yesterday in my Iroquois game. They fell completely apart. "France" is a OPM centered on Paris.

Guancyto

2015-08-17, 09:54 AM

I can't get Western Arm's trade without throwing hundreds of Ducats at Hungary and I'm massively strapped for cash. I have no intention of wasting time going into India and China.

My only real concern is that only Austria is stopping the Commonwealth right now.

It doesn't look like the east african or saudi nations have a lot of strength going for them, if you can dominate the Persian Gulf you can steal the wealth of India and China anyway.

Eldan

2015-08-17, 11:30 AM

Current state of the world in my Iroquois game, ca 1633:

http://fs2.directupload.net/images/150817/zym5y6h8.png

Interesting bits:
*I'm the sort of spidery green expanse in North America. The ragged shape comes from first diplo-annexing all other tribes in the area before the Europeans came, then colonizing, then repeatedly conquering the British 13 colonies.
*France fell apart. As you see here, it's being sort of reunited, by a re-emerged Burgundy (it was absorbed into Austria, as expected, then the Netherlands declared independence, then Burgundy must have rebelled it's way back to glory), and by Britain, who took the opportunity. Normandy is a British vassal.
*Still existing Ming, but threatened by Manchu.
*Very Europe-focused Ottomans are getting a bit stuck, they haven't gained any new territory in 50 years or so.
*Portugal doing very well as a colonizer.
*Breton Newfoundland
*I'm considering breaking my alliance with Castille and taking their North American territory, too. The Iroquois Carribean sounds like a pleasant place.

Leecros

2015-08-18, 09:10 PM

So i've finally managed to do the Italian Ambition mission to some effect...

http://oi61.tinypic.com/73cb3o.jpg

Oh, My apologies. What i meant to say was "I finally managed to get the Italian Ambition Achievement and crush everyone who gets the Italian Ambition mission in the process."

Sadly, that's the end of that game for me. For some reason at the start of March the game freezes and stops responding. Unfortunate too, because i didn't want my screenshot of that game forever tarnished by those three rebel-occupied provinces in The Balkans.

Oh well, the game was almost over anyway and i already got that achievement.

Flickerdart

2015-08-19, 09:20 AM

Are Hungary and Spain your colonies, or did you create client states and just name them that?

Leecros

2015-08-19, 09:41 AM

Are Hungary and Spain your colonies, or did you create client states and just name them that?

They're client kingdoms.

I'm not particularly innovative when it comes to naming them, so i have a tendency to just name them [My Adjective] [Conquered Kingdom]. However, I do like them for the late game. It makes conquering large swaths of land, Making that land a Client Kingdom, and then declaring war somewhere else before everybody joins the coalition a viable tactic.

Eldan

2015-08-19, 04:59 PM

Heh. That reminds me of my Italy game.

In that game, almost everyone in the HRE was catholic, except two or three protetant states. However, a lot of powerful states outside the HRE (at least Italy (Piemont, at that time), Great Britain and Scandinavia) were protestant and went on to start and win the league wars.

So, the Empire was protestant, without any protestant electors. There were four protestant OPMs, who then split up the rule between them.

After I formed Italy and invaded the HRE, I managed to vassalize them all and be elected Emperor without being in the Empire, technically. Just because there was no one free of the right religion in the Empire.

Leecros

2015-08-19, 06:19 PM

I was actually pretty shocked. Italy has some Incredibly Awesome Ideas. If they existed at the start of the game and weren't in such incredibly close proximity to France. They would definitely be a Competing Great Power.

Eldan

2015-08-20, 07:52 AM

They can, once formed. Don't forget they are also phenomenally rich. Not only do they have some of the best territory in he world, it's a lot of small minors who invest a lot of points in development. Coring is a bitch, though.

tonberrian

2015-08-29, 01:25 AM

Started playing EUIV now that 1.13 hit, basically my first game since Common Sense. I statted up a custom nation with about 325 points of ideas, 10 points of ruler, and 65 points of territory. Picked a spot in the Gulf of Venice as my capital, and got some coast there and Arangon's Sardinian territories.

That is not a fun start if you want to do HRE things. Either you expand into Italian minors and rack up AE, or you try and get lucky with Naples and Aragon. Everything else is just too big, too blobby to deal with - or else befriends one of the major powers in the area. You can usually ally two of Burgundy, France, and Austria, though with only 65 points of territory it takes some sucking up to them and then patience before they flip from defensive. You can't keep expanding into the empire, that just makes people hate you. You've got to expand away from the empire so the AE evens out. And then, if you want to stay in the empire you have to eat prestige loss and revolt risk.

Still, I perservered, and now I'm Emperor and have enough troops to kick out just about everybody. It's 1520 -ish and I've managed to take most of the Italian region for myself. Power Projection remains high, I'm besties with Austria and France after the Burgundian Inheritance, everything's a-okay (except for me continually hemmorhaging manpower, gotta get better at that). I think the Iberian Wedding triggered twice after I broke the first PU through prestige hits, though that could have been a reload. Castile hasn't really colonized much as far as I can tell - still only has three ideas in Exploration. Portugal meanwhile has 7 and 2 of expansion. The reformation just hit - I want to try out new Protestantism, though I wonder how much havok that will play with my empire and the sbmitting to the empire triggered modifier. I could blow up very spectacularly in the coming months.

Mabn

2015-08-29, 02:22 PM

Yeah I've tried several custom nation starts in the Italian HRE and so far none have really worked for me. You have to get Venice and the Papal State into the empire but you don't actually want to occupy Rome, so you have to start with all the papal state territories and get up to 100 opinion with Austria before the occupation of Rome event resolves itself so you can add Rome to the HRE and then give it to the Papal State. However, if you start with any of Venice's Northern Italy territories Austria will consistently rival you, so you need to conquer Venice after releasing Rome. At that time you often need to bring Austria in with you because Venice allied with someone powerful, but if Austria occupies any Venetian territory other than Brecia you're hosed again because they wont add the Venetian territory to the Empire even if they are emperor and if you leave the province out of the peace treaty or release it as a separate country someone else will conquer it anyway before your treaty ends. Then, even if you pull all that off without making everyone hate you you're still going to be in and HRE that will invariably turn 95% heretic and never pass a reform again at around 1503. :smallannoyed:

tonberrian

2015-09-07, 03:05 PM

Things you don't see every day: Ottomans being crushed... by Urbino.

Mabn

2015-09-08, 12:08 AM

Things you don't see every day: Ottomans being crushed... by Urbino.
In my most recent custom Italian HRE attempt (one of them will work damn it) Karaman and Genoa appear to be tag teaming them. Apparently if you crush their army sometime before 1450 they just never get back up again.

AgentPaper

2015-09-08, 12:13 AM

Italy isn't so bad. Never had much trouble in my Lucky Lucca/Master of India run, anyways. Then again, I never really got all that aggressive in Europe outside Italy though, so perhaps that's why. I did end up fighting off both France and Austria though, so it's not like it can't be done or anything. You just have to be careful and pick your battles wisely.

Eldan

2015-09-08, 04:42 AM

Things you don't see every day: Ottomans being crushed... by Urbino.

Things I've seen last game: Athens and Constantinople owned by the Knights Hospitaller.

(It went indirectly. Greek Rebellion freed Athens, knights took it. Genoa took Constantinople in a huge war, then lost it to the Knights.)

tonberrian

2015-09-08, 01:58 PM

Mrr. Why do we have so few military leaders? Losing the unique buildings really was terrible.

OrcusMcP

2015-09-08, 04:38 PM

I think that was part of the point, that if you wanted to have a bunch of generals/admirals you had to pay for them with MIL. What I think hurts more is just how ephemeral Tradition has become without the admiralty/war college.

Also, just noticed the page count. Should we start coming up with a name for the new thread?

Murska

2015-09-08, 04:42 PM

I feel like there should be some way for large nations to have more leaders.

I mean, how often do any of you actually use Admirals? I never use them, because having a General is always better. And when I'm a globe-spanning empire with several different wars ongoing on five different continents, I'd really hope they could find more than two reasonably competent people to lead my 1,5 million troops.

Flickerdart

2015-09-08, 04:56 PM

Also, just noticed the page count. Should we start coming up with a name for the new thread?

Europa Universalis IV Thread 3: Common Sense is Just an Expansion
Europa Universalis IV Thread 3: Holy Moroccan Empire
Europa Universalis IV Thread 3: Do the Right Ming
Europa Universalis IV Thread 3: Call for Threadsreform

Eldan

2015-09-08, 05:43 PM

EUIV Thread III: Bye-bye Blue Blob
EUIV Thread III: Sweden is not overpowered
EUIV Thread III: Too many diplomatic relations
EUIV Thread III: Not enough Leaders
EUIV Thread III: Switzerlake
EUIV Thread III: Form Prussia
EUIV Thread III: Common Sense for 14.99

rweird

2015-09-08, 06:07 PM

I'm in favor of "Common Sense is Just an Expansion."

I agree about the leader limit (although teleporting leaders can make up for it). I'm playing as Russia (1.12.2, as 1.13 breaks it, and I want to get the achievement "A decent reserve"), so I have a limit of 2 leaders. I don't know a good way to fix it (although leader limit has no historical justification, even during the Hundred Years War, both France and England are far over the leader limit, America's war of Independence and Revolutionary France also demonstrate this).

OrcusMcP

2015-09-08, 08:08 PM

EU4 Thread 3: This time it's not thread 2

EU4 Thread 3: Subsidize my Love!

EU4 Thread 3: Spain Both Is and Is Not the Emperor

tonberrian

2015-09-08, 11:29 PM

Could add bonus leaders for levels of development. Maybe one every 100 development or so.

As for threat title, Europa Universalis 4 Thread 3: If only we had comet sense...

AgentPaper

2015-09-09, 01:02 AM

Don't you get a bonus leader for being an empire now? And you get military tradition from having active forts.

Sian

2015-09-09, 04:21 AM

Europa Universalis 4 Thread 3: New Devotion

rweird

2015-09-09, 05:42 AM

Could add bonus leaders for levels of development. Maybe one every 100 development or so.

If the limit is so high like that, it might as well not exist. Even if you are Russia, have full Offensive and Quantity ideas, thats one leader per 22 regiments, and I doubt any large empire would have the Mil for that. Simply not having a limit would be simpler (for a normal country, one per 10 regiments, if the provinces have some autonomy, then it'd be even lower).

Murska

2015-09-09, 06:41 AM

One leader every 50 forcelimit? *shrug*

Leecros

2015-09-09, 09:51 AM

i wouldn't mind the base amount of leaders without upkeep being 2 instead of 1, but personally i rarely have an issue with the leader limit. Sure, it starts out pretty low, but there's a few ways to expand on it. First off, having 25 power projection isn't that hard to get. Especially if you're a large nation. That gives you +1 leader without upkeep.

Aristocracy and Innovative both give you +1 leader without upkeep

Being an Empire also gives you +1 leader without upkeep

so just being a large nation that's an empire with 25 power projection will net you 3 leaders without upkeep. If you still need more, then aristocracy and innovative...both decent Idea Groups will net you another two for 5. Assuming you need even more generals... Well, it doesn't really hurt to be a couple of generals over the limit. -1 military power/month for a good general is definitely worth it.

However, keep in mind, you don't need a general for every army. You typically only need 1 or 2 per region you're fighting in. 2 for much larger areas of land to cover or 1 to cover a smaller swath of land on the border. In areas where you outtech nations by a few military levels, usually you don't need a leader at all. The only issue i run into with the leader limit is when i do a heavy colonization game. For like 150 years i need a conquistador and an explorer. That doesn't leave much room for a general to fight in Europe. I do sort of wish colonial Ideas would increase the limit of leaders.

Of course, the biggest drawback to expanding the leaders without upkeep at all is that the AI will be much more likely to get a strong general, because they keep at their limit even at peace. Some players take issue enough with the AI seemingly getting decent generals "All the time". You can get a great general with the starting tradition if you get very lucky. With a hundred nations in the game(and only a few players at most), a few of them are bound to get a good general. If you increase the base limit, or even have too many ways to get free leaders; The number of strong generals will increase proportionally.

Also did somebody say Karaman?
http://oi61.tinypic.com/20a9pqw.jpg

Closet_Skeleton

2015-09-10, 05:40 PM

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/615094916183881300/8A6D85F1A851B98DFC169A96C92E4C9930CFA478/

Polish-Lithuanian-Scandinavian Commonwealth. I should have seen that coming.

Galicia used to own European Castile, but Aragon conquered it and then it revolted back to Castile, whose capital is on Borneo after Galicia exiled them from Europe.

For a while Argentina had Brazil under a PU but European powers kept beating them up so their prestige dropped too low for a super South American Empire to unite fully.

I started as Bavaria by the way. Revoked the Priviligia aroudn 1760.

rweird

2015-09-10, 05:54 PM

How that Korchin happen?

Naples seems to be on the brink of forming Italy, and Commonwealth probably could crush just about anyone.

Rockphed

2015-09-10, 08:31 PM

How that Korchin happen?

Naples seems to be on the brink of forming Italy, and Commonwealth probably could crush just about anyone.

It looks like Russia decided to migrate East until it hit the sea.

Leecros

2015-09-10, 09:24 PM

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/615094916183881300/8A6D85F1A851B98DFC169A96C92E4C9930CFA478/

For a second i thought you were The Commonwealth...In that case.

"That's a tasty looking Holy Roman Empire you have there." Says The Commonwealth to the Germans.

How that Korchin happen?

It looks sort of like Ming ate the other Manchu nations and Korchin just took the path of least resistance.

Closet_Skeleton

2015-09-11, 04:47 AM

How that Korchin happen?

Naples seems to be on the brink of forming Italy, and Commonwealth probably could crush just about anyone.

I wasn't looking at Korchin. They're in the Ming-Korchin-Persia alliance block that dominates east and central asia.

Naples can't form Italy without defeating me and Savoy. Savoy they could annex but are their friends, If Naples had a chance against me then I wouldn't have been able to finish by liberate the Pope mission and they'd still have Rome.

I was contemplating giving either Naples or Savoy the provinces to form Italy but the helping the Pope gives me an actual advantage.

Commonwealth doesn't stand a chance against me unless I have to move too many troops out to conquer Great Britain's colonies and non-European allies.

It looks like Russia decided to migrate East until it hit the sea.

Scandinavia conquered European Russia and then fell under a PU when I was busy losing two other wars and in no state to contest.

Sian

2015-09-11, 07:56 AM

got a protentially stupid strong game going on as England

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/684900892810500847/96125D6BB874BDFCC3F81CBEA7AF63CE9831FCBF/

Castile went under PU with me in 1467
Currently just about winning a war with Portugal, forcing them under PU (and using the time to feed Castile rest of Iberian Aragon)
Just popped the Mission to force France under PU
Norway is going to be vassalized as soon as i'm done with Portugal and France, using them to push into northern Russia
If Austria did me the favor of dying now, they would become of my house so i could maybe force them under PU
Poland is in a strong PU with Lithuania, and my DipRep is high enough that it shouldn't be that difficult to force them into becomming my House as well.

fun fact is that Margaret of Anjou Happened, followed by the Lancaster heir dying, leaving Anjou on the throne :)

Guyenne, Scotland and Champagne is vassals (Scotland going to be freely annexed as soon as i hit Admin Tech 10)

rweird

2015-09-11, 04:12 PM

Wow, it seems like England is a PU machine. Was it just luck for Iberia, or is their some trick?

Sian

2015-09-11, 04:56 PM

Luck for Castile (as that was a succession war between them+me+Austria+Portugal vs France), slightly less so for Portugal (they had no heir, and got my dynasty, and i claimed the throne), and a mission for France (which gives Restoration of union CB)

tonberrian

2015-09-11, 08:51 PM

I remember a game a couple of patches back. I was Austria. Managed all the mission pu's, then lucked into... France, Aragon, and Muscovy, IIRC. And all but I think Aragon was under one ruler.

rweird

2015-09-11, 09:09 PM

Just tonight in my Russia game, I got Austria (pretty much by chance, was an ally, had a royal marriage, at some point a Habsburg got on my throne), the 4th largest nation in the world be development, (behind me, Ming, and Ottomans) under a PU (and has 0% liberty desire).

Now France (my other ally) is the Emperor, but imperial authority is wrecked because Austria has 50+ provinces in the empire that now are controlled by a foreigner, although the fact that there only were 5 non-heritics, and therefore, only 4 electors+Austria as emperor meant authority was already trending towards 0, although now it is by -0.79 per month.

Guess I'll need to kill France instead to get Ruini Imperii, and Austria is sitting on 104% overextension and -3 stability, so I'll be killing their rebels for a while.

Razanir

2015-09-12, 12:22 AM

This is in the Shattered Europa mod.

I was elected HRE, and 5/7 electors would vote for me again. One of the other two had unlawful territory. So to deal with the elector problem, I declared war on them. Except I also felt a bit like a Stark, at the moment. My thoughts as signing the peace agreement for their full annexation:

In the name of Amedeo of house di Savoia, the Ninth of his Name, King of Savoyards, Lord of the Seven Electors, and Holy Emperor of the Romans, I do remove your electorate and sentence your country to die.

(After that, I gave Verona the newly opened electorate, so I have 6/7 votes)

tonberrian

2015-09-12, 11:08 AM

New thread! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?441445-Europa-Universalis-IV-If-only-we-had-comet-sense)