How much to learn ALL the spells?

[Renen]

Im planning on joining a lvl 30 game and being a StP erudite (because nothing says Fk balance like StP erudite)

Just outta curiosity, how many(approximately) arcane spells ARE there in the game? Just so I can eyeball the xp costs. :D

[Gavinfoxx]

Which rules of StP Erudite are you using?

The actual limit of the number of 'locked' powers really depends on which version of the Erudite you are reading...

-The Complete Psionic gives the Erudite unique powers per day equal to 1+1/2 class level (rounded down) per level, This means a level 20 Erudite can manifest 99 unique powers a day, 11 per power level (!!!)

-A common claim of RAI is that the Erudite should have 1+1/2 class level unique powers per day, no matter the level.

-The Erudite from Dragon Magazine #319 version has this, where the first level you can manifest a new level power you can manifest one a day, the next two level you can manifest three a day, the next three you can manifest 3 a day and every level after that you can manifest 4 a day. (Exceptions being 8th level powers where you skip one level of manifesting only 2 a day and 9th level powers where every level from 17th to 20th increase the number you can manifest daily by one.)

-A common houserule has it as:
1 per level 1-10, 1/2 level 11-20. leaves 15 at 20, and adds an extra +1 at 1. So, some example NET unique powers per day, which changes depending on how many class levels associated with Erudite you have. Thus, as a class level 1 erudite, you have 2 unique powers per day. As a level 5, you have 6, as a level 10, you have 11, as a level 15 you have 13, as a level 20 you have 16. This thread discusses the problem some:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131058


And you are talking about learning EVERY power and spell, including the divine ones? That will take some shenanigans to do, though it is most certainly possible at level 30.

[Renen]

Ill talk to GM about uniques per day, as I find the 1/2lvl -1 bit too small, and the 99 is obviously OP.

I think ill stick to knowing only all arcane stuff, as someone is planning on being divine caster and will have most divine stuff handled. I know I can easily make divine stuff into arcane, but I dont wanna explain all the hoop jumping to GM. Then again, if someone can estimate number of 1st party divine spells, thats cool too.

[Gavinfoxx]

So there is an Archivist? Why not simply know the more useful divine stuff? At least levels 5 and under.

[Dunditschia]

This (http://dndtools.eu/spells/?name=&range=&spell_resistance=&area=&duration=&saving_throw=&casting_time=&school__slug=&sub_school__slug=&descriptors__slug=&verbal_component=1&somatic_component=1&material_component=1&arcane_focus_component=1&divine_focus_component=1&xp_component=1&rulebook__slug=&rulebook__dnd_edition__slug=adventures-35&rulebook__dnd_edition__slug=core-35&rulebook__dnd_edition__slug=dragonlance&rulebook__dnd_edition__slug=eberron-35&rulebook__dnd_edition__slug=forgotten-realms-35&rulebook__dnd_edition__slug=greyhawk-35&rulebook__dnd_edition__slug=supplementals-35&description=&class_levels__slug=wizard&domain_levels__slug=&_filter=Filter) should give you all wizard spells published in 3.5 books. 2072. Spells published in multiple books will show up as many times though, so there's some duplicates.
Also, this list doesn't have sorceror-only, bard-only, etc. spells.
And there are undoubtedly also a load of unique unupdated 3.0 spells, so the total is probably higher. I don't know how many xp it costs you per spell, but the total cost will be pretty high.

[Gavinfoxx]

The XP cost for StP depends on the level of the spell, and whether you need shenanigans to get it..

[Renen]

Actually... its 20 xp per erudite level. Which is... interesting.
By my rough estimate, if I learn say... 1500 spells, which should be (maybe)enough to accound for every spell giving repeats, and some extremely useless stuff.
Learning them all at lvl 20, would cost 400 xp per. But since I can just learn them earlier it would likely only drop me down 1 lvl in xp. (1500 at lvl 20 costs 600k xp, but learning em as I lvl would cost way less. And xp from 29 to 30 is 435k )

[pwykersotz]

All spells on D&D tools come to 5022. Minus maneuvers and duplicate spells, you get around 3600 spells. I don't have an exact number, because when I made the list for myself I also cut all Dragonmark, Truename, and some Incarnum spells. Still, that should be close enough to ballpark.

[Renen]

But thats including divine right?
So arcane should be toughly half that. And minus a bunch of really useless spells that are so situational that they are never used, or another spell that "does it better"

[Werephilosopher]

But thats including divine right?
So arcane should be toughly half that. And minus a bunch of really useless spells that are so situational that they are never used, or another spell that "does it better"

There are a few ways to convert divine spells into arcane spells- so the STP Erudite can learn those as well.

[Doc_Maynot]

2 level dip into Chameleon, and then lots of days.

[Renen]

I think knowing all Arcane spells is already a stretch.

[Kraken]

How abusive do you want to be? Because with psychic chirurgery (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicChirurgery.htm), you can be a regular old psion, then drain all spells from a StP erudite (because technically they're all now powers). This allows you to spontaneously cast all your powers and spells without erudites pesky UPD limit. Use your choice of exp shenanigans (I'll let others more versed share such info) to power the repeated transfers with minimal cost.

[Werephilosopher]

I think knowing all Arcane spells is already a stretch.

Yeah, it's not like you're stretching already by making a level 30 STP Erudite. :smallamused:


How abusive do you want to be? Because with psychic chirurgery (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicChirurgery.htm), you can be a regular old psion, then drain all spells from a StP erudite (because technically they're all now powers). This allows you to spontaneously cast all your powers and spells without erudites pesky UPD limit. Use your choice of exp shenanigans (I'll let others more versed share such info) to power the repeated transfers with minimal cost.

This actually doesn't work- the text of Spell-to-Power repeatedly calls them spells known, it simply lets an Erudite manifest them as powers. It's this language that allows using Arcane Fusion to get around UPD limits, since Arcane Fusion uses sorcerer spells, not powers.

[Kraken]

This actually doesn't work- the text of Spell-to-Power repeatedly calls them spells known, it simply lets an Erudite manifest them as powers. It's this language that allows using Arcane Fusion to get around UPD limits, since Arcane Fusion uses sorcerer spells, not powers.

After another quick glance, I'm not sure I agree.


You add Spellcraft to your class skill list, which allows you to attempt to convert an arcane spell into a power you can add to your repertoire. You treat the spell as a discipline power for the basis of learning it, and you must first succeed on a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell's level) and then a Psicraft check as per the normal rules of learning a discipline power (see page 154 of Complete Psionic).