Help me make a master swordsmen [3.5]

[Teapot Salty]

Hey guys. As the title says, I want to make a master swordsmen, one who seeks utter mastery of the blade, a Vaarsuvius of swords if you will. I would like it to be rather optimized, but not totally. Outlining what feats to take, classes, dips, etc. A few ground rules:

1: No excessive multiclassing, only up to three base classes and one prestige class.
2: No two handed. This is a master swordsmen and the flavor of picking up a huge weapon and smashing things with it, while being a master is just kind of, off.
3: More of a guideline really, but I would like to have a high base attack bonus, getting my fourth attack.

I'm going for a striker/tank, with striker taking priority. I don't want to dump both intelligence and wisdom, so that's a thing. No idea what the rest of the party looks like.

Maybe, I could post the sheet when I'm done. Thanks, and as always, go nuts.

[aleucard]

A few things.

If you don't go with a 2-handed weapon, then your ability to Power Attack will take a noticeable hit. Granted, there's other ways to get respectable damage, but still.

Are you allowed to take Tome of Battle? If you want to be anywhere close to a Melee Master, then that book is possibly the best way to do it in 3.5 and not fall behind.

Are you going to try for bonus stealth-type damage? Sneak attack, Skirmish, even Iaijutsu Focus (this fits perfectly, but can be very cheesy if taken to extremes) can all help with your damage in ways that need no investment of Power Attack at all.

Are you going to be using a Sword n Board, Dual-Wielding, or Single Weapon style? Some things work better than others at these, and though you seem to prefer the first, I'd like confirmation.

How willing are you to sacrifice your ability to do other things? While making yourself into a one-trick-pony is bad, some people don't like the thought of others being able to duplicate their abilities with relatively minimal effort. This question tells us where the cutoff point for that is.

[chainer1216]

Straight Warblade or warblade/crusader/master of the nine would do the job.

Also your disregard for two handed fencing is insulting, just look into things like Fiore or any other HEMA longsword styles or even kenjustu.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Straight Warblade or warblade/crusader/master of the nine would do the job.

Also your disregard for two handed fencing is insulting, just look into things like Fiore or any other HEMA longsword styles or even kenjustu.

How about Warblade (or Crusader) 10/Eternal Blade 10?

[Teapot Salty]

A few things.

If you don't go with a 2-handed weapon, then your ability to Power Attack will take a noticeable hit. Granted, there's other ways to get respectable damage, but still.

Are you allowed to take Tome of Battle? If you want to be anywhere close to a Melee Master, then that book is possibly the best way to do it in 3.5 and not fall behind.

Are you going to try for bonus stealth-type damage? Sneak attack, Skirmish, even Iaijutsu Focus (this fits perfectly, but can be very cheesy if taken to extremes) can all help with your damage in ways that need no investment of Power Attack at all.

Are you going to be using a Sword n Board, Dual-Wielding, or Single Weapon style? Some things work better than others at these, and though you seem to prefer the first, I'd like confirmation.

How willing are you to sacrifice your ability to do other things? While making yourself into a one-trick-pony is bad, some people don't like the thought of others being able to duplicate their abilities with relatively minimal effort. This question tells us where the cutoff point for that is.


Honestly, all options are open, I like the swift hunter/dervish combo, but I'm open on pretty much every front. I still want to do other things however



Straight Warblade or warblade/crusader/master of the nine would do the job.

Also your disregard for two handed fencing is insulting, just look into things like Fiore or any other HEMA longsword styles or even kenjustu.


I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm saying that in combining D&D with the real world, and the most optimized way of doing damage with a twohander is power attack, one can't help but think that all their doing is hitting things really hard and hoping they fall down.

[Val666]

Warblade 5/ Revenant Blade 5/ Eternal Blade 10

Your favorite Triblade build e.e Get the Flexible Mind feat as a flaw so you can qualify for Revenant Blade at level 5 without multiclassing. You'll be using the Valenar Double Scimitar. The Power Attack issue is solved with the capstone of Revenant Blade, a ver interesting ability. Revenant Blade + Eternal Blade make a very good background for any character.

This build have full BAB, 15d10+5d8 HD, access to maneuvers and at level 20 you can make 3 full attacks per encounter and 2 full attacks everytime you recharge maneuvers.

Your feat progresion could go like this:

1) Blade bearer of the Valenar (level 1), Flexible Mind (flaw), Two Weapon Fighting (flaw)
3) Weapon Focus (Valenar Double Scimitar)
5) Combat Reflexes (warblade bonus feat)
6) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
9) Power Attack
12) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
15) Martial Study: Pouncing Charge
18) Martial Stance: Stance of Alacrity

The two last feats are optional. Remmember that Revenant Blade get 3 floating feats (4 with Zaelshin Tu) this feats should be:
Improved Critical, Weapon Specialization, Blind-Fight and Greater Cleave.

Hope this helps

EDIT: Oh god, only one prestige? beg for two! this combo is awesome e.e

[Teapot Salty]

Actually, two handed is back in, the image of a samurai is awesome.


Incidentally, I'm thinking (not in this order, maybe) Spirit Lion barbarian-1, scout-9, dervish-10, using a greatsword, taking leap attack, shock trooper, power attack and the like. But I ask this, is the -9 to damage from having a +17 bab worth the +3d6/+2ac per pop from skirmish?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Actually, two handed is back in, the image of a samurai is awesome.


Incidentally, I'm thinking (not in this order, maybe) Spirit Lion barbarian-1, scout-9, dervish-10, using a greatsword, taking leap attack, shock trooper, power attack and the like. But I ask this, is the -9 to damage from having a +17 bab worth the +3d6/+2ac per pop from skirmish?
The skirmish boost is a bit better (3d6 damage averages out to 10.5, and you're taking less of an AC hit overall), and that's not even counting better skills and the potential for Improved Skirmish. But the charger doesn't stack well with the dervish, whose dance explicitly calls for full attacks, not charges.

But I gotta say, a Martial Adept of some description will probably get you the most swordsman-y swordsman you could want. Forget power; it's the only good way to get mechanically distinct sword techniques. (Oh, and there absolutely were (http://www.aemma.org/onlineResources/liberi/wildRose/section5.html)high-skill techniques using two-handed swords. Think of Power Attack as a carefully-aimed attack at a weak spot instead of a giant wild swing, if it helps)

[Teapot Salty]

Here is the scout/barbarian/dervish

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=923315


Should I dual wield and go swift hunter instead of barbarian?

[gorfnab]

Should I dual wield and go swift hunter instead of barbarian?
How about swift hunter with a level of barbarian?

Human (or some other race + Flaws)
Scout 5/ Ranger - Arcane Hunter ACF (CM) 2/ Barbarian - Whirling Frenzy ACF (UA), Spiritual Totem: Lion ACF (CC) 1/ Dervish 9/ Scout 3
Feats:
1. Expeditious Dodge or regular Dodge, Mobility
3. Weapon Finesse
4. B: Combat Expertise
6. Weapon Focus Scimitar
7. B: Two Weapon Fighting
9. Improved Two Weapon Fighting
12. Swift Hunter
15. Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18. *Open Feat*
20. B: Improved Skirmish

*Open Feat Options* - Improved Critical Scimitar (okay as usual), Extra Rage (set to Whirling Frenzy), Elusive Target (negates Power Attackers), Combat Reflexes (extra attacks, somewhat situational depending on the game), Deadly Defense (combos with Elaborate Parry), Flay Foe, or Nemesis (great for Arcane Hunter Ranger ACF)

[Dorian Gray]

Actually, two handed is back in, the image of a samurai is awesome.


Incidentally, I'm thinking (not in this order, maybe) Spirit Lion barbarian-1, scout-9, dervish-10, using a greatsword, taking leap attack, shock trooper, power attack and the like. But I ask this, is the -9 to damage from having a +17 bab worth the +3d6/+2ac per pop from skirmish?

The idea of samurai using two-handed katanas in close combat (as well as the idea of Bushido in general) is a fantasy created by the 19th and 20th century Japanese aristocracy. Samurai predominantly used bows, and occasionally polearms from horseback.

I swear, I'm just an ass because I want people to pay attention to landsknechts!

But if I were you, I would throw in some martial study as well- some Diamond Mind or Iron Heart maneuvers go great with everything (Diamond Nightmare Blade!), and stances like Dancing Blade Form is, I find, really awesome, even if it isn't quite as OP as some other Iron Heart stuff. And you don't have to take warblade levels- just the Martial Study feat works.

Iron... Heart... SURGE!!!

[Feint's End]

Here is the scout/barbarian/dervish

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=923315


Should I dual wield and go swift hunter instead of barbarian?

Please don't get me wrong but a barbarian/ swift hunter build isn't what I think of when considering a master swordsman. You jump at enemies like a lion (I guess you can reflavour that but by default it's a very animalistic style of fighting) and slice them up with your weapons in a hail of attack.

I don't say it is a bad build or even bad concept but calling it a master swordsman is probably mistaken.

For a real master swordsman warblade/ eternal blade is probably the closest you will get. Or maybe psywar for a more supernatural approach.

[Teapot Salty]

Actually, looking at eternal blade, It really doesn't seem all that powerful, am I missing something?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Actually, looking at eternal blade, It really doesn't seem all that powerful, am I missing something?
Full maneuver progression from good schools means you're not losing power. You get nine levels of passable, flavorful abilities. (Especially for a master swordsman). And then, at 10th level, you get Island in Time, which is just... insane. Once per encounter, take an extra turn. As an immediate action. That's action economy abuse at its finest, right there.

[Feint's End]

Grod already said it. Basically you loose minor abilities and gain some great abilities in return. The level 10 ability is really really good and better than the cap from the straight warblade (which is already pretty good). For the right build (as in ... hmm ... A master swordsman for example) it is a straight upgrade to the regular warblade.