How to warn your dm that his BBEG is going to get his can kicked.

[shadowseve]

Soo I've seen the stats for one of the Big Bad Mid Campaign Boss fights. (we've known who it is going to be for a while) He's a dmm persist cleric that is bringing a pillow to ass whooping contest. Our party is taking things way above our level due to high optimization, thank you giantitp for that btw. His persisted spells are weak, his ac is very low for his level, his feats are weak, here's looking at you endurance. There is so much more he could do for his character. Character level is 20. No divine power, righteous might, no persisted AMF with extraordinary spell aim, greater visage etc... nothing. the spells he has are like divine favor and bull strength. Yes I'm serious. We're probably going to be around lv 15 when we fight him and I would like a challenge. He's already had a real hard time with us. We've annihilated everything he's thrown at us. We've tried giving advice but to no avail. I've even mentioned him coming here and getting help.
We're gestalt and the BBEG is not. We have a dmm persist holy cleric//crusader, dmm persist LN necro cleric//crusader(with two bad ass undead dragon zombies following plus other undead), me as a planar shepherd druid//factotum/sword sage, and a wizard/incantrix//factotum. The clerics are rocking some mad buffs as well as I, and I'm not even going to get into the wizard. (thank you Ryu for your help!)

So how to I tell are DM dude that his boss is a walking roadkill buffet? I mean I actually feel bad for this uber evil dude.

[chaos_redefined]

Why are you all playing such powerful stuff with a DM who can't cope with it? This seems an important point to raise...

[tyriuth]

Don't forget that the DM is likely to change what his BBEG is going to be like if you're more powerful than usual.

[HammeredWharf]

I think toning down your PCs would be a better idea. I've played with DMs who can't optimize as well as I can and I think the best way of doing it is optimizing a psychic warrior instead of a planar shepherd or an incantatrix. The DM should have fun, too, and not get constantly smashed by his players.

[Mr Adventurer]

I think when I saw "Wizard/Incantatrix//Factotum" I pooped myself a little. I mean jesus, what do you even do to that?

[ahenobarbi]

You probably should talk about your table optimization level, the DM migth have reasons not to optimize as much as you do (for exaple it takes time and DM nas to make many more characters than you). It can be better for party to tone down instead of DM optimizimg more.

Also hope the cleric doesnt have lvl 1 fallen kobold palladin mook ;)

[Mirakk]

Adjusting the level of optimization at this point is difficult. In the future you should feel that sort of thing out as you're playing.

I'm more concerned with how you saw the stats for the bad guy before the encounter. DMs usually don't just do that, and for good reason. Either that was a mistake, or you're about to get trolled hard next session, when you show up expecting a caster type and it's the terrasque or something :P

[Synar]

I think you took too litterally the advices in this board, which unless you play at specific tables or at least with prepared and willing DMs (I've seen people mention Tippy), are probably innapropriate and more TO than PO. If you want to optimize as much as you can, take T3 or lower classes for the base, do not abuse the action economy, do not abuse the action economy, and do not gesalt. Else, you will need restraint, your goal being to be able to overcome whatever the DM throw at you, but in more than one round and while being at least a little challenged.


If you want to challenge your optimization skills while having fun, take bad classes/concepts or flavorful if a bit weak ideas, and make them viable.

Really, here, since the DM obviously do not know as much about optimization as you do and probably was'nt warned, it is mostly your fault.

I mean, one popular opinion on this board is that incatatrix were created to make DM cry.

P.S.:How in the nine hells do you know the stats of the BBEBBQ?

[John Longarrow]

shadowseve,

Have you talked to your DM away from the table to let him know what your concerns are? If so, it could be that your DM just likes giving you easy fights. If your DM thinks things are going to easy, ask him to post here and we can give him the kind of help you will wish we didn't... :xykon:

NOTE:
When facing an over OP party, I like breaking out my rat basterd DM hat and tossing encounters that optimization doesn't always help with...:nale:

[Malak'ai]

Why are you all playing such powerful stuff with a DM who can't cope with it? This seems an important point to raise...

I totally agree with this.

Why would you bring Nukes to a fist shaking contest if you know the DM either isn't used to or isn't able to cope with that sort of power level? Hell, I don't even think one of my old DM's could have handled running a game for characters like those and he's been DM'ing for over 30 years and can come up with extremely powerful enemies in the blink of an eye! I just don't understand!

[Coidzor]

If he's showing you creatures' statblocks then you just say "that seems (a bit, completely) weak," and also, "why are you showing me statblocks in advance?"

If he won't budge on upping his game then I suppose you either have to get him to use someone else's creatures, have someone else start DMing, or figure out as a group how far back you're willing to scale for him.