In-World Reason for Less Rules Jokes?

[RadagastTheBrow]

Out-of-plot, the reason for less D&D jokes is something to the effect of Rich not wanting to tie himself down as much. Fine and dandy, perfectly respectable and understandable.

I've had an idea brewing for a little while, though, that there could be an in-world reason for less rules awareness. What if the characters are less aware of the rules governing their reality because those rules are, in fact, becoming weaker and weaker? Tears in the plot threads, as it were? Geez, if only some group of unlucky adventurers were unwittingly blasting holes in the fabric of reality. These holes could cause some "bleed-over" between worlds, causing less awareness of the rules of reality (and, conversely, possibly making it possible to cast spells and, you know, breathe on the other world). The mechanics of the world aren't as present because they're literally not as present, they're bleeding into the hidden planet. A metaphorical hole in the lampshade, as it were.

tl;dr Something weird's up with a general transition as the story progresses? Blame the Snarl. Might have something to do with the generally upgrading art, too.

[Finagle]

I don't know...the last two strips have been all about rules minutiae. I think the author doth complain too much. He seems to be pre-emptively explaining everything to the forumites to avoid questions later, instead of doing the straightforward non-D&D storytelling. Eh, we're on the last Gate, the comic will be over by 2016, and then he can do his next comic which will have tons of crossover appeal, including cute marketable recurring mascot characters.

[MLMII]

My opinion is simply that the characters themselves are getting "more serious" because they are fully aware that time is "running out", remember awhile back when Belkar said that "he was the only funny thing left in the comic"?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Perhaps the characters themselves want to move past doing rules jokes? Haley certainly does. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0340.html)

[Sunken Valley]

the comic will be over by 2016.

Why that year?

[Jay R]

Decades ago I tried to justify the D&D structure of individual levels in-game, by defining adventure classes as archetypes, which people could align themselves only at specific quantum levels. It was complex, internally consistent, and explained a lot of otherwise unexplained phenomena - like why a wizard can't cast three 1st level spells until she can also cast a second-level one. I was quite proud of it. But I eventually realized that it made no useful contribution to the actual game, and I dropped it.

There is a meaningful in-story reason for meta-decisions only if that explanation is useful to the story as story. This one isn't.

[NerdyKris]

Eh, we're on the last Gate, the comic will be over by 2016, and then he can do his next comic which will have tons of crossover appeal, including cute marketable recurring mascot characters.

That's quite optimistic given that there are two books left (this one and the next), and they tend to take two or more years to get through for each one. The book that just ended took FOUR years to complete.

Also, that's not really D&D rules. How the gods handle something like a cleric affecting a divine storm is based on the setting.

[Zmeoaice]

Eh, we're on the last Gate, the comic will be over by 2016, and then he can do his next comic which will have tons of crossover appeal


Lol nope. It took 5 years for Blood Runs in the Family to be completed, and we have 2 books left. We're getting new OoTS comic for a long time.

[JBiddles]

Decades ago I tried to justify the D&D structure of individual levels in-game, by defining adventure classes as archetypes, which people could align themselves only at specific quantum levels. It was complex, internally consistent, and explained a lot of otherwise unexplained phenomena - like why a wizard can't cast three 1st level spells until she can also cast a second-level one. I was quite proud of it.

That still sounds fascinating. I don't suppose you have it still, or remember enough to repost it?

[Jay R]

That still sounds fascinating. I don't suppose you have it still, or remember enough to repost it?

I may have it in a file cabinet somewhere, but this was in the 1970s, for original D&D. There's certainly not an electronic copy, and I have no incentive to type it all in.

The extremely short version is this:

The world was identical to ours in all respects until 1066, when the light from the Crab Nebula supernova arrived, bringing with it raw manna - the stuff of magic. Originally, this had no effect, since nobody knew how to shape it. But little kids started seeing the bogeymen of their nurses' stories - goblins, kobolds, orcs, etc. They existed because all the children believed they did.

Imagine a world in which people's worst nightmares could become real. It soon descended into chaos, filled with monsters from every story from every culture.

But in a few places, there were little islands of sanity. If the lord, or priest, had a strong enough will, and enough determination, and could sway the minds of their followers, then a certain degree of order persisted in their lands.

Over time, these people started to die off - but their influence remained. The essence of the great Warriors joined together into a great subconscious archetype of the Fighting Man. (Yes, that was the term in the books then.) Eventually, any Fighter who grew powerful was forced into the form of this archetype.

Similarly, the archetypes of Cleric, Wizard, Paladin, and Thief grew. As a person gained more experience, they could align themselves more fully with the archetypes, but only in certain quantum levels, which became experience levels as we know them.

As Europe collapsed under the weight of the nightmares, many of these great leaders sailed west in search of new land. The American Indians, whose culture leaned more toward living within nature rather than conquering it, had been much less affected. The only real changes were that woodland Indians became more in tune with the woods, and this was the start of the elves. Dwarves grew out of mining communities that had been sheltered from the chaos by living in their mines.

Since the original Heroes were human, non-humans could not attune themselves to the archetypes past a certain point. Hence, racial limits on levels. The exception was the Thief archetype, made of those who didn't really fit into human society.

The scientific method does not work when an experimenter's beliefs change the results of the experiment, so the technological level never developed beyond the Middle Ages.

That's the gist of it. It was much more carefully worked out, and explained everything in the rules I could find a way to fit, but I brought it up to show that it had no purpose. It did not help any player, DM or character in any way. Any in-game explanation for the limitations of the simulation, whether game or comic, is meaningless unless it can improve the experience somehow.

I learned a great deal about how simulations worked from it. A simulation should only simulate aspects that need to be simulated, and anything beyond that is a distraction, and makes the simulation less useful as a tool. (Years later, my Simulations professor said, "If we wanted to observe reality, we'd observe reality.")

The rules of D&D simulate continuous character growth with stepwise growth, so it will be simpler to track. The comic strip has fewer rules jokes because it has more plot and characterization. There's no point inventing a false reason for either of these when we already know the true one.

[RadagastTheBrow]

The extremely short version is this:


I actually think that's really, really cool. To me, at least, it would help in developing a campaign to have a few core premises from which the craziness is extrapolated. Plus, with yours in particular, it explains why you can have a sword and sorcery campaign that goes to space. Hell, make a backstory event where the "Nebula" was, in fact, a slain god and his undead head- Atropus- is flying towards Earth for the party to stop.

I think part of it boils down to Watson V Doyle: Dawn of Justice. We know the Doyle; Watson's fun, too, and I'd like him to come out and play.

[Gnoman]

The way I see it, rules are something that low-level parties talk about, because understanding them is key to success in adventuring. Thus, they joke about them in the same way people in our world joke about the idiosyncrasies of a new job. By the time someone gets to the Order's level, the jokes are tired and stale, and they don't need to talk about them very much due to experience.

[137beth]

How about this: when they first started, it was right after converting to 3.5, so the characters were joking about the oddities of the new universe. By now, they've all gotten use to it, so there is not as much left to joke about.
Also, this:

The way I see it, rules are something that low-level parties talk about, because understanding them is key to success in adventuring. Thus, they joke about them in the same way people in our world joke about the idiosyncrasies of a new job. By the time someone gets to the Order's level, the jokes are tired and stale, and they don't need to talk about them very much due to experience.

[Jay R]

If anybody cares, the actual in-world reason for fewer rules jokes is the universe eventually agreeing with Haley, who said, "Vrqxx rtegqxg abqvo lvqkul hte fx'qx LVKMM jhskeo nrxhu qtmx qxyklkbe wbsxl...Obgl, fx ltns (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0340.html)."

[137beth]

If anybody cares, the actual in-world reason for fewer rules jokes is the universe eventually agreeing with Haley, who said, "Vrqxx rtegqxg abqvo lvqkul hte fx'qx LVKMM jhskeo nrxhu qtmx qxyklkbe wbsxl...Obgl, fx ltns (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0340.html)."

And, to save anyone reading this thread the trouble of getting up to look at the translation in the book, or going to another thread, what she said translates to

Three hundred forty strips, and we're STILL making cheap rule revision jokes... Gods, we suck.

[Jay R]

I actually think that's really, really cool. To me, at least, it would help in developing a campaign to have a few core premises from which the craziness is extrapolated. Plus, with yours in particular, it explains why you can have a sword and sorcery campaign that goes to space.

Actually, part of the story I left out was to explain why medieval-style adventures were going to take place at Philmont Scout Ranch. I had just spent two summers as a Philmont Ranger, and knew those mountain trails pretty well.

[RadagastTheBrow]

Actually, part of the story I left out was to explain why medieval-style adventures were going to take place at Philmont Scout Ranch. I had just spent two summers as a Philmont Ranger, and knew those mountain trails pretty well.

Eh, that's cool, too. Can always do zombie space-gods later, I guess.

[Sith_Happens]

I think the reason is just that they've made most of the rules jokes already.