Can a familiar be taught to write common

[DrkMagusX]

If I had a Monkey Familiar with a INT of 9 is it possible for him to understand and write in common?
Would it be safe to say I would need to spend 2 skill points to teach him?

What is everyone's thoughts on this,.

[atemu1234]

If I had a Monkey Familiar with a INT of 9 is it possible for him to understand and write in common?
Would it be safe to say I would need to spend 2 skill points to teach him?

What is everyone's thoughts on this,.

RAW? No. DM Fiat? Probably. I'd say that if he's intelligent and telepathically linked to you, he could. No skill points required.

[DrkMagusX]

So what your saying is a creature with a INT of 9 can't learn to write. I have seen barbarians with a lower int that could write lol

[atemu1234]

So what your saying is a creature with a INT of 9 can't learn to write. I have seen barbarians with a lower int that could write lol

No, I'm saying that a creature with no means of communicating with you save base emotions cannot learn to write from you.

[thethird]

RAW? No.

What? Why? A creature with INT higher than 3 is able to speak common. Unless otherwise specified being able to speak a language allows you to write it. Illiteracy is a class feature of barbarian, or totemists, not familiars.

[Slipperychicken]

You could get the monkey a Pearl of Speech (MiC, 600gp). That lets him speak and understand one language. From there, teaching him to write should be a simple matter.

[atemu1234]

What? Why? A creature with INT higher than 3 is able to speak common. Unless otherwise specified being able to speak a language allows you to write it. Illiteracy is a class feature of barbarian, or totemists, not familiars.

Wrong. Most races do not know common. For example, in the Monster Manual, Kobolds do not know common. Nor do goblins.

[thethird]

I don't have the monster manual in front of me but goblin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/goblin.htm) on the SRD seems pretty clear

Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin

kobolds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/kobold.htm) do indeed have common as a bonus language, not an automatic one.

But if they are characters (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_character&alpha=C) (and they are) they know common, since the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm) is clear: "All characters know how to speak Common."

[atemu1234]

I don't have the monster manual in front of me but goblin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/goblin.htm) on the SRD seems pretty clear

Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin

Look at the Kobold SRD.
Automatic Languages: Draconic. Bonus Languages: Common

[DrkMagusX]

I know I can't have the monkey be a artist, just thought since he can't speak that he could at least write words on parchment like someone that can't talk. Alot of this is character flare. A raven familiar can speak and learn common so I figure so could a monkey least writing it.

[Deophaun]

Wrong. Most races do not know common. For example, in the Monster Manual, Kobolds do not know common. Nor do goblins.
It's time to play "Let's Read the Monster Manual." This time kids, we turn to the deepest, darkest bowels of the tome known as Page 7:

Intelligence: A creature can speak all the languages mentioned in its description, plus one additional language per point of Intelligence bonus. Any creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher understands at least one language (Common, unless noted otherwise).
So based on this, we have the following questions:
Is 9 greater than or equal to 3? Yes
Does the monkey's entry note a language other than Common? No

Therefore, the monkey understands (but does not necessarily speak) Common. Note that reading and writing languages is tied to speaking, not necessarily understanding. That may or may not be RAI (Baleful Polymorph seems to indicate that it's not RAI), but it is RAW.

[Slipperychicken]

I know I can't have the monkey be a artist

Really?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qeoOtwGN3GA/Sk4vwOu66XI/AAAAAAAAAKw/6db35Q8PpPU/s400/An+animatronic+caged+monkey+as+a+painter.jpg

[DrkMagusX]

Thats why I said I could possible spend points on literate to for the monkey. He will understand it and read and write it but can't openly speak it without aid.

Lets stop letting rules bog down the creativeness of what we come up with. When they made the books they can't think of every possible out come a player might think of. lol

[Deophaun]

Thats why I said I could possible spend points on literate to for the monkey.
You could possibly have a monkey familiar that shoots fire out of its eyes and is Lord and Master of the Northern Continents. These things--like your familiar spending skill points on literacy, and then houseruling literacy to let you read and write languages you merely understand, not speak--rely on DM fiat, and so we generally don't take that stuff into consideration.

Believe it or not, we actually have no control over what your DM allows in his games.

[Millennium]

Monkeys don't really have enough fine motor control to handle writing at the sizes we typically think of as "writing": you might be able to teach one to scratch very large letters into the dirt in a runic script, but not text on a piece of paper.

But you might want to consider sign language as an alternative. Sign language requires fine motor control, of course, but not to the same degree. Even in the real world, a few primates have been able to learn the basics. I'd agree that a monkey familiar ought to be able to handle that. Of course, you'd have to learn the language first (so that you can teach it to the monkey), and so would anyone who wanted to communicate with the monkey. But if you want a monkey with a language, I'd allow that as a possibility.

This is all DM fiat, please understand. But I'd think it was interesting enough to allow.

[WinWin]

Familiars have access to their own skill ranks, or their masters, whichever are better.

If the Master can read and write Common, then so can the familiar, assuming it has the physical capability. This means that a toad can read and understand Common, but can't pick up a pen or speak. It can probably push Scrabble pieces around though.

[Coidzor]

RAW you'd need to take Speak Language (and thus be better off with a language you don't know already) or you'd need to reinvest your familiar's skill points so it can take Speak Language.

But the RAW is vague and tenuous, so, really, you should just go with some sort of sensible houserule.

[Deophaun]

Familiars have access to their own skill ranks, or their masters, whichever are better.
Which, strangely, seems to have no bearing on Speak Language:

•You can purchase Speak Language just like any other skill, but instead of buying a rank in it, you choose a new language that you can speak.
So, apparently there are no ranks of Speak Language for a familiar to inherit, because you don't gain ranks in that skill.

[DrkMagusX]

Okay lets put aside the rules and such and lets just design a character like you would see in a story.

What I have so far is a Nature like elf with arcane training as well. His companion is a monkey that sits on his shoulder and dabbles in a book that hovers in the air . The elf is full of life and curiousity about what he finds and see and the monkey helps him keep notes. He is always eagered to learn and experience life and which is why he is a adventurer.

Really trying to figure out more for the monkey . I can visual the character .

Arcane Hierophant with a sup up monkey. 4 levels of Druid/3 Levels wizard / 5 Arcane Hierophant

Thinking of giving monkey range weapon or monkey grip lol

That is just to get a better idea of what he is.

Lets keep rules aside and say that its allowed to write and go from there :D

[WinWin]

You still spend skill points to aquire languages, whether they are a class skill or not is important. If you want to take asinine RAW to the next level, then yeah, trained skills are not neccessarily something you have ranks in, even if you spent the damn points.

According to the links below, familiars can't read or write, regardless of intelligence score. Period. That means a literate Imp or Dragon becomes illiterate upon becoming a familiar. More asinine RAW.

All familiars can 'speak' at least one language thanks to being a magical beast. Improved Familiars retain languages, if they had them. They don't gain bonus languages and skill ranks from an improved intelligence score.

Rules of the game: Familiars, part one (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050906a)
part two (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050913a)
part 3 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050920a)
part 4 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050927a)

Invest in UMD, give your familiar a wand or use activated item of Illusory Script and Read Magic.

[Deophaun]

What I have so far is a Nature like elf with arcane training as well. His companion is a monkey that sits on his shoulder and dabbles in a book that hovers in the air . The elf is full of life and curiousity about what he finds and see and the monkey helps him keep notes. He is always eagered to learn and experience life and which is why he is a adventurer.
The monkey is a regular monkey familiar with a pearl of speech. Done. 100% RAW. If you want a mechanic where you waste rare skill points to gain an ability easily acquired with a few hundred GP, talk to your DM.

You still spend skill points to aquire languages, whether they are a class skill or not is important. If you want to take asinine RAW to the next level, then yeah, trained skills are not neccessarily something you have ranks in, even if you spent the damn points.
Huh? What? With the exception of Speak Languages, you train all your skills by purchasing ranks in them with Skill Points. Even a half-rank is still a rank. And why are you even bringing up class skills?

According to the links below, familiars can't read or write, regardless of intelligence score. Period. That means a literate Imp or Dragon becomes illiterate upon becoming a familiar. More asinine RAW.
Skip Williams's columns are not considered RAW. Besides, he's contradicting the PHB, and in that case, the PHB wins.

All familiars can 'speak' at least one language thanks to being a magical beast.
No, they don't. They all can understand one language. A few can actually speak (Raven, for example, or various improved familiars).

[maniacalmojo]

Judging as actual monkeys can learn to write sentences on keyboards and sign language ect a monkey with 9 int should be able to get by.

[weckar]

By barbarian RAW, taking any class that doesn't say otherwise provides literacy. Any chance you could get a single class level on that monkey of yours?

[Alex12]

I will note that I'm pretty sure, per RAW, that raven familiars know how to write, since they can actually speak a language and lack anything (class features, racial traits, etc) that prevent that.

[Deophaun]

By barbarian RAW, taking any class that doesn't say otherwise provides literacy. Any chance you could get a single class level on that monkey of yours?
Literacy doesn't solve the RAW problem. Literacy just means you can read and write the languages you can speak. The problem is, most normal familiars don't speak any language at all, so it doesn't matter if they're literate or not.

[Trasilor]

Literacy doesn't solve the RAW problem. Literacy just means you can read and write the languages you can speak. The problem is, most normal familiars don't speak any language at all, so it doesn't matter if they're literate or not.

Except they can:


Speak with Master (Ex)
If the master is 5th level or higher, a familiar and the master can communicate verbally as if they were using a common language. Other creatures do not understand the communication without magical help.

They speak a language...then this applies:


A literate character (anyone but a barbarian who has not spent skill points to become literate) can read and write any language she speaks. Each language has an alphabet, though sometimes several spoken languages share a single alphabet.

So a familiar (and master) can speak, read and write in a special language only they can understand (without magical help). Of course, the familiar is limited to what it can physically hold (a snake would have a difficult time using a quill).

[Deophaun]

So a familiar (and master) can speak, read and write in a special language only they can understand (without magical help). Of course, the familiar is limited to what it can physically hold (a snake would have a difficult time using a quill).
OK, so you have a very narrow exception that is of no use when trying to read and write Common.

[Trasilor]

OK, so you have a very narrow exception that is of no use when trying to read and write Common.

True...but I was responding to your post that they cannot speak any language at all :smallamused:

What I don't understand is why the player wants the monkey to be able to write common? A small spider monkey would be better off learning slight of hand to steal other wizards spellbooks/spell pouches etc.

For some reason, I envision a wizard readying an action to cast benign transposition with the party melee as soon as the monkey steels bad wizards spell book. :smallamused:

[weckar]

Honestly, if this WOULD work, I would move heaven and earth to enact the 'infinite monkeys, infinite typewriters' scenario. With a little luck, one of them will produce a campaign history book that includes everything yet to happen.

[Deophaun]

Honestly, if this WOULD work, I would move heaven and earth to enact the 'infinite monkeys, infinite typewriters' scenario. With a little luck, one of them will produce a campaign history book that includes everything yet to happen.
The real trick would be picking out the one accurate campaign history book from the infinite number of alternate campaign history books that will inevitably accompany it.

[Doug Lampert]

The real trick would be picking out the one accurate campaign history book from the infinite number of alternate campaign history books that will inevitably accompany it.

Well, you just wait for the campaign to end, explain to the infinite number of 9 Int monkeys what happened, and have them read the books to find the accurate one.

Simple really. The only problem is that the characters need to know what a campaign is and how to tell if its ended and need a way to still act after the end.

[No brains]

I will note that I'm pretty sure, per RAW, that raven familiars know how to write, since they can actually speak a language and lack anything (class features, racial traits, etc) that prevent that.

+1 this. Ravens might have worse penmanship than monkeys, but they can definitely speak, which usually means writing ability.