Taking down a plane, raid-style.

[tadkins]

Might be my heavy-MMO background talking but I thought about this earlier at work today. Many of the planes have different layers, with major figures inhabiting each one. In particular, I speak of the Nine Hells and the Abyss. D&D describes these figures as very influential, and even confronting one is a huge deal for a PC.

So once you hit max level, why not gather a whole army of similarly powerful heroes and raid these planes, systematically murdering the lords of these realms for glory and loot?

I know that to many here, the idea seems really silly. The idea that a raid could move through the layers of the Abyss and destroy all the demon princes one by one, starting with Pazuzu, then moving on to Orcus, followed by Graz'zt, then Demogorgon, and so forth, until all of these major lore figures are conquered like the scripted challenge encounters they were born to be.

Can it be done? Perhaps some have even played in such a game? I'm interested in hearing some thoughts on the subject.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

With epic spellcasting or TO, yeah, it could be done. But the Abyss is essentially infinite. If you're just charging in Leeroy Jenkins style you'll spend all your time killing underlings while the smart demon princes simply avoid you.

[tadkins]

With epic spellcasting or TO, yeah, it could be done. But the Abyss is essentially infinite. If you're just charging in Leeroy Jenkins style you'll spend all your time killing underlings while the smart demon princes simply avoid you.

Wouldn't flushing them out be part of the challenge? xD

[CyberThread]

leeeeerrrooooyyyyy jeeeeeennkiinnnsssss

[Jeff the Green]

Wouldn't flushing them out be part of the challenge? xD

No. It'd be literally impossible if they have any brains at all. They pick a layer at random. Being a creature of chaos, that should be easy. They hide out there. You have a 1/∞ chance of finding him—this is equal to 0%. Add in protection from scrying and they're basically entirely safe.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

No. It'd be literally impossible if they have any brains at all. They pick a layer at random. Being a creature of chaos, that should be easy. They hide out there. You have a 1/∞ chance of finding him—this is equal to 0%. Add in protection from scrying and they're basically entirely safe.Of course, having your NI simulacra shapechanging into Zodars for NI wishes and forcing them to you with the "transport travelers" clause would work... but again, TO.

[Darkweave31]

If you play D&D as a video game with incredibly bad lag then sure you could systematically off one demon prince after the other... if they are, however, played even somewhat intelligently by the DM then you'll have a much harder time. The machinations of just one demon prince are often the basis for entire campaigns, and for good reason. These are immortal beings with the strength to rival gods and they should be treated as such.

[malonkey1]

If you play D&D as a video game with incredibly bad lag then sure you could systematically off one demon prince after the other... if they are, however, played even somewhat intelligently by the DM then you'll have a much harder time. The machinations of just one demon prince are often the basis for entire campaigns, and for good reason. These are immortal beings with the strength to rival gods and they should be treated as such.

Send in... THE KOBOLDS.

[icefractal]

Of course, having your NI simulacra shapechanging into Zodars for NI wishes and forcing them to you with the "transport travelers" clause would work... but again, TO.What is it with this idea? I've been seeing it a lot this week. :smallconfused:

Anyway - just say no to free Wishes.
1) Once they're in the picture, anyone past like 5th level is arbitrarily powerful, making any kind of question about who would win anything meaningless.
2) Even if you set some system to make it non-arbitrary, demons have access to the same thing ... earlier ... in large quantities. So by putting that in the picture you guarantee losing.

[vhfforever]

2) Even if you set some system to make it non-arbitrary, demons have access to the same thing ... earlier ... in large quantities. So by putting that in the picture you guarantee losing.

I'm in complete agreement, here. And if it's something that's been known to happen in your game world, they've had a longer period of time, at a higher intelligence, with far more cunning to apply it...and with far less restrictions where alignment is concerned.

Also, they'll just turn everything around against you, including all the fun Ice Assassin Zodar Pun madness; when you walk into the layer they rule.

[Effero]

Basically what I was told was pick a plane no one cares about and conquer it. Negative energy plane looks nice, can't see but 5 ft and the whole plane wants to suck away your life, and if you happen to find a null area it is full of undead. Shadow plane is fun, can't think of god-like beings there. All of the outer planes have god level beings I believe. Inner planes have elemental titans... fun stuff.