How am I doing on optimization so far?

[AnonymousPepper]

Playing a high-power campaign right now and after the unfortunate death by basilisk of my erudite, I decided to bring in a utility caster/slight gamebreaker with a druid. Athasian human - composite setting, so still okay for my PrC options.

Right now the plan is Druid into Planar Shepherd (Xoriat - I'm not that much of a buttlord, but the wildshape is still godlike and I could always planar bubble my enemies if I was in an evil mood, Faceless Void style) into Hathran.

As a fifth-level druid in our level six party (Athasian Human is LA1; I did buy it off though), I have 24AC plus a Lesser Iron Ward Diamond crystal on my armor for its wonderful benefits (and for good measure a Bent Sight crystal on my shield so that I can tell gaze attacks where to shove it), Greenbound Summoning, Gatekeeper and Nightbringer Initiate, Ashbound, and Item Familiar. Plus Wedded to History for the immortality and the UMD class skill, and Ethran to later qualify for Hathran. We all have an extra feat because reasons, for the record, on top of my flaws.

My plan in combat is to initiate combat with a Cloudburst to make it rain while the bard starts singing and the friendlies get into range. Then follow up with Creaking Cacophony to multiply any sonic damage dealt in its area by 1.5, while the bard gets his full 5d6 bonus sonic damage fully into action. Afterward, the rest of the party smashes everything in sight with weapon+(5d6*1.5) damage/round and I cast Call Lightning to blap down 3d10 reflex half per round myself. If caught indoors or in another area where I can't cast Cloudburst, I will instead open with Creaking Cacophony, a couple of Summon Nature's Ally spells, and then start spamming Enervates everywhere (yay, Nightbringer Initiate).

Later, with Hathran and Planar Shep online and once I have Natural Spell (I put it off until wildshape really kicks in around mid levels for druid in comparison to my current build and/or I can afford Wild on my armor to really kick it into gear - as of right now I'd need to beat 24AC, Iron Ward Diamond crystal, and a +3 con mod), I can use the standard Acorn of Far Travel tricks to spontaneously cast my whole list whilst wildshaped as various awfully nasty beasties from Xoriat. Probably featuring the second variant of my standard tricks - open up with CC, lead into a pair of SNAs, and then unleash blasty doom. And also probably featuring a Ring of Mighty Summons because I have Ashbound so I don't need to care about the duration. Oh, and Circle Magic. Always Circle Magic.

Additionally, we'll have permanent Telepathic Bonds up with all of us so as to ignore the worst penalty of Creaking Cacophony to us - the deafen on a failed save (the shaken condition hardly matters given the insane bonuses given out by the bard - which do of course persist even when they can't hear it for as long as the Cacophony lasts, since both are rounds/level duration).

The idea here is to be downright untouchable while raining holy hell down on everything and enabling my party to further chew up anything it sees.

[Flickerdart]

>gamebreaker
>AC 24
>Call lightning for 3d10 per round
>7.5d6 Sonic damage

Keep trying.

[AnonymousPepper]

>gamebreaker
>AC 24
>Call lightning for 3d10 per round
>7.5d6 Sonic damage

Keep trying.

I did say slight.

I did for example deliberately not take Dal Quor because of the risk of books being thrown at me. That being said, I can always just completely shut my enemies down by PB Xoriating them, which I think is similarly - potentially even worse, with good positioning - gamebreaking compared to Dal Quor 10-1 cheese.

And for the record that's 7.5d6 sonic damage per attack per melee character in the party, of which there are three others, two of which have full BAB.

[Flickerdart]

And for the record that's 7.5d6 sonic damage per attack per melee character in the party, of which there are three others, two of which have full BAB.
Sure, the Bard is doing something. It's just that your only meaningful contribution to the battle, as described in your plan, is contributing half of what he is.

As for Dal Quor, if you're at a level where you already get Planar Bubble, and this is your battle plan...I have no words.

[eggynack]

Sure, the Bard is doing something. It's just that your only meaningful contribution to the battle, as described in your plan, is contributing half of what he is.

Yeah, the secondary battle plan of just summoning up a pile of greenbound whatevers is probably of significantly greater effectiveness, though it doesn't synergize with the bard's mind affecting music much. Other spells, of course, ranging from sleet storm to spirit jaws to stone shape, can also contribute a bunch. Just locking down the battlefield some will let your team get more attacks in with limited retribution, thus dealing more damage than something like call lightning or creaking cacophony.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Pretty much all of Xoriats non-templated inhabitants are aberrations, which you can't wild shape into. The exception for templated creatures is specific to magical beasts. So you can't really wild shape into anything that you couldn't as a straight druid (less, because you lose plant shape).

Similarly your planar bubble will help your enemies, not you. It always has you as the point of origin so casting it on your enemies won't work.
Your planned combat spells could also use some work. By the time you actually do anything (round 3) most encounters are over or at least in the mop-up phase if your party plays at a similar level of optimization and is in any way competent.

You should do more research on your chosen builds capabilities. As it is you're playing one of the most broken builds possible... and using only a minuscule amount of its potential. It's like you picked the most broken stuff you could find and then decided not to use any of it.

You have some summoning feats, but you still summon at a 1 round cast time. Get Rapid Spell and summon in the first round as a full-round action instead to actually make use of them.
If you buy a Ring of the Beast you don't even have to spend a higher level spell slot on it. If you don't want to summon as a main combat tactic don't spend feats on it.

If you want to blast, invest in feats for it. Blasting is one of the weaker options available but perfectly playable, if you actually get some synergy of feats and items going to make it so.
Or you could just summon Storm Elementals to do your blasting for you and get double benefit out of your summoning feats.

Creaking Cacophony is a waste of time. 2.5d6 comes out to about 8 damage per hit, which won't matter unless your fights take a lot longer than they should. You'll contribute more by having your summons benefit from the bards unaugmented DFI.
Buffing damage with in-combat actions is only worth it if it ends up doing more than if you'd cast a different spell. If you want to buff, focus on long duration spells you can get up before combat starts.

[weckar]

Pretty much all of Xoriats non-templated inhabitants are aberrations, which you can't wild shape into. Unless you can somehow qualify as being an aberration yourself.

[eggynack]

Unless you can somehow qualify as being an aberration yourself.
What's that thing now? I don't think that's how it works.

[weckar]

It's not. But at least we're all awake now. Carry on.

[Pyromancer999]

Pretty much all of Xoriats non-templated inhabitants are aberrations, which you can't wild shape into. The exception for templated creatures is specific to magical beasts. So you can't really wild shape into anything that you couldn't as a straight druid (less, because you lose plant shape).



This is true, except for Aberration Wildshape (http://dndtools.eu/feats/lords-of-madness--72/aberration-wild-shape--9/). While, yes, you can wildshape into an aberration as a straight druid, if his DM enforces the familiarity clause of wildshape, being a Planar Shepherd(Xoriat) would allow him to wildshape into any aberration native to the plane, but more as an incidental thing for the feat than an actual class feature.

[eggynack]

This is true, except for Aberration Wildshape (http://dndtools.eu/feats/lords-of-madness--72/aberration-wild-shape--9/). While, yes, you can wildshape into an aberration as a straight druid, if his DM enforces the familiarity clause of wildshape, being a Planar Shepherd(Xoriat) would allow him to wildshape into any aberration native to the plane, but more as an incidental thing for the feat than an actual class feature.
It doesn't look like planar shepherd grants any extra bonus familiarity benefits, apart from the possibility of plane shifting to your plane of choice, and checking out the wild life.

[sleepyphoenixx]

This is true, except for Aberration Wildshape (http://dndtools.eu/feats/lords-of-madness--72/aberration-wild-shape--9/). While, yes, you can wildshape into an aberration as a straight druid, if his DM enforces the familiarity clause of wildshape, being a Planar Shepherd(Xoriat) would allow him to wildshape into any aberration native to the plane, but more as an incidental thing for the feat than an actual class feature.

True enough, but why would you go into Planar Shepherd if you're spending two feats on Aberration Wildshape? It certainly isn't for the bubble because Xoriats characteristics are almost universally detrimental to you, and the bubble always emanates from you.
You also won't get the supernatural and spell-likes of the forms you take with Aberration WS, which is pretty much one of the two main points of taking Planar Shepherd in the first place, the other being the bubble, provided you take a plane that actually benefits you.

Xoriat gives you neither good WS forms nor a good bubble so all you get is a few weak SLAs and the outsider type, in exchange for plant form, poison immunity, thousand faces and timeless body. And a feat, of course.

There's nothing wrong with not going completely TO and taking Dal'Quor but you should get at least something out of your PrC, imo. Given what we know of the OPs build and planned strategy he'd probably get more out of taking Moonspeaker instead and focusing on summons.


It doesn't look like planar shepherd grants any extra bonus familiarity benefits, apart from the possibility of plane shifting to your plane of choice, and checking out the wild life.
It doesn't. And spending 4 levels and a feat on getting Plane Shift seems a little inefficient. :smalltongue:

[weckar]

I never got why taking Dal'Quor was such a big deal. Anything inside the bubble gets the advantages, and you can't hurt anything outside it. I guess it's good for self-buffs and flight, but that's hardly overpowered.

[HammeredWharf]

Why are you casting Cloudburst? Why are you an Althasian human? Where's your animal companion? Last time I played a druid his animal companion would've dealt around 260 damage per round with that DFI bonus. 3 normal attacks + 4 claws from Girallon's Blessing = a lot of attacks and around 80 damage per round without DFI.

As sleepyphoenixx already pointed out, it's like you're taking some of the most broken things in D&D and barely using them.

[Eldariel]

I never got why taking Dal'Quor was such a big deal. Anything inside the bubble gets the advantages, and you can't hurt anything outside it. I guess it's good for self-buffs and flight, but that's hardly overpowered.

Here's a question: Why is Time Stop such a great spell? You can't affect other people during it after all and it gives less turns and it's a 9th level slot.

Now, think of what other spells exist aside from direct damage & buffs. Try and come up with some more efficient use of 10 free turns than buffing. You should be able to find the answers on your own soon enough.

[eggynack]

It doesn't. And spending 4 levels and a feat on getting Plane Shift seems a little inefficient. :smalltongue:
Indeed, though it's not really a waste of a feat, as either of the two is a valid choice, and plane shift is some sweet business on occasion. Definitely crazy inefficient though, when you consider the class being used.

I never got why taking Dal'Quor was such a big deal. Anything inside the bubble gets the advantages, and you can't hurt anything outside it. I guess it's good for self-buffs and flight, but that's hardly overpowered.
Where's it say that you can't hurt anything outside of it?

[sleepyphoenixx]

I never got why taking Dal'Quor was such a big deal. Anything inside the bubble gets the advantages, and you can't hurt anything outside it. I guess it's good for self-buffs and flight, but that's hardly overpowered.

Why wouldn't you be able to hurt anything outside of it?
And even if you didn't, you can still do things like get off 10 summon spells while your enemy has only 1 round, buff yourself and your party as much as you like, heal, or have your parties arcane spellcasters rest and prepare new spells in less than an hour.
If you can't find a way to abuse getting 30 hours of time while the rest of the world gets only 3 you aren't trying hard enough.

[weckar]

The moment a spell or projective leaves the bubble, it would resume to normal time. Sure, you can send more in the same time, but by simple space calculations you can see that there is only a very limited number of objects that can fit on a specific trajectory.

[HammeredWharf]

Space calculations don't have anything to do with D&D's attack rules. Everything travels from point A to point B instantly, unless otherwise noted.

[eggynack]

The moment a spell or projective leaves the bubble, it would resume to normal time. Sure, you can send more in the same time, but by simple space calculations you can see that there is only a very limited number of objects that can fit on a specific trajectory.
Spells that hit a target pretty much always travel instantaneously. Time dilation is thus irrelevant. It's also rather unclear how much space, say, a baleful polymorph takes up on this trajectory. To all indications, it would take up zero space. Also, you're assuming that there is one specific trajectory here, when there could easily be multiple targets, or a druid that moved five feet to the left after the first spell was cast. There is no apparent limitation here.

[weckar]

Except when there is an obstacle. Or... you know what, not even worth arguing. *evacuating topic*

[eggynack]

Except when there is an obstacle.
Except there isn't one, because there is no longer a spell along that trajectory, and because the spell doesn't have the substance to act as an obstacle, and because having ten full rounds to act with means that the spells could be five foot wooden cubes, and you'd still just be able to walk until you have a clear shot, and fire off another round. Because reasons, in other words.



Or... you know what, not even worth arguing. *evacuating topic*
Fair enough then. Dal'quor be some insane junk.