extrodinary spell aim and anti-magic field.

[adriana]

Is there a way to extend it's radius? Also would this null the planar bubble of a planar shepherd if I was in his bubble when it was cast?

[adriana]

Que the crickets

[thedmring]

1.no
2.yes.

any other questions?

[adriana]

1.no
2.yes.

any other questions?

thanks for the brashness.

Any one else or is this right?

[thedmring]

thanks for the brashness.

Any one else or is this right?

I answered your question :smallsigh:. If I sound brash....Well ask a question that 1 min of google will tell you and.....

[eggynack]

I answered your question :smallsigh:. If I sound brash....Well ask a question that 1 min of google will tell you and.....
I think the issue is that your answers had no explanation. This is especially problematic, as the first question had the clear implicit follow up question of, "How?" and as the second question is surprisingly ambiguous. As for the core questions at hand here, to the first, something as simple as widen spell, or a rod thereof, can manage it.

To the second, it is, as I noted, somewhat ambiguous. The planar bubble does have you as its source, after all, and an AMF stopping the bubble would thus mean that the AMF is affecting you, which means that the bubble would continue to act on the basis of extraordinary spell aim. However, if you hold to the interpretation that ESA is just an incredibly precise shape spell, then the AMF would hit everything down to your skin, which presumably includes the bubble. It's really a thing that cuts to the heart of what the hell it is ESA does, so it's a situation that's a bit on the mired in ambiguity side of things.

[sleepyphoenixx]

It would suppress the bubble in the area of the AMF because Planar Bubble is a (Su) effect. If you used Extraordinary Spell Aim to exclude yourself it would still suppress the bubble because the bubble affects an area, not a creature.

[adriana]

I think the issue is that your answers had no explanation. This is especially problematic, as the first question had the clear implicit follow up question of, "How?" and as the second question is surprisingly ambiguous. As for the core questions at hand here, to the first, something as simple as widen spell, or a rod thereof, can manage it.

To the second, it is, as I noted, somewhat ambiguous. The planar bubble does have you as its source, after all, and an AMF stopping the bubble would thus mean that the AMF is affecting you, which means that the bubble would continue to act on the basis of extraordinary spell aim. However, if you hold to the interpretation that ESA is just an incredibly precise shape spell, then the AMF would hit everything down to your skin, which presumably includes the bubble. It's really a thing that cuts to the heart of what the hell it is ESA does, so it's a situation that's a bit on the mired in ambiguity side of things.

Thank you eggy for a better answer. I'm looking this up for our dm as it's got him puzzled. How would you rule that since the druid in the party will be casting the bubble and I dmm persisting the AMF.

[adriana]

It would suppress the bubble in the area of the AMF because Planar Bubble is a (Su) effect. If you used Extraordinary Spell Aim to exclude yourself it would still suppress the bubble because the bubble affects an area, not a creature.

interesting. I thought it might but I was unsure.

[sleepyphoenixx]

interesting. I thought it might but I was unsure.

It's the only way that makes sense to me. Compare it to the Archmage's Mastery of Shaping, which explicitly leaves spaces unaffected, while ESA leaves out creatures.

[eggynack]

It's the only way that makes sense to me. Compare it to the Archmage's Mastery of Shaping, which explicitly leaves spaces unaffected, while ESA leaves out creatures.
It's a valid interpretation, certainly, but the planar bubble is very much a thing that is yours, and it is thus a thing that, if turned off, would mean that you're affected by the AMF. Using the shape spell model is just one out of a couple of possibilities, in other words.

[sleepyphoenixx]

It's a valid interpretation, certainly, but the planar bubble is very much a thing that is yours, and it is thus a thing that, if turned off, would mean that you're affected by the AMF. Using the shape spell model is just one out of a couple of possibilities, in other words.

Since he wants to persist AMF i'm assuming he's excluding himself. In that case every space in the AMF has the bubble suppressed. If the Planar Shepherd is in the AMF it is suppressed completely, since he is the point of emanation.

If he excludes the PS then any space within the AMF still has the bubble suppressed. The only difference is that even if the druid is inside the AMF any area outside of it is still under the planar bubble.

That's assuming Planar Bubble is, in fact, an emanation, which is my assumption since it requires concentration.

The other option is a Burst or a Spread. In both cases any areas outside the AMF would continue to be affected no matter if the PS is suppressed or not.
Presumably, being in an AMF prevents the PS from concentrating to maintain his bubble (since it's a Su ability), so it would only last another 1d10 rounds and then end unless another use of Planar Bubble is expended.

Either way, the benefits of the Planar Bubble are not a buff that affects a creature. It affects an area, which ESA does absolutely nothing to exclude.
To make a counter example, Inspire Courage affects a creature that can hear the bard sing. As long as the bard is not in the AMF and the excluded person isn't deaf or silenced, he is affected.

The same applies to any spells that affect a creature. As long as they're cast from outside the AMF they work because the AMF doesn't affect you.
Any area spells, such as BFC like Solid Fog or Stinking Cloud, are suppressed instead, since the AMF still affects the area you occupy.

[eggynack]

Since he wants to persist AMF i'm assuming he's excluding himself. In that case every space in the AMF has the bubble suppressed. If the Planar Shepherd is in the AMF it is suppressed completely, since he is the point of emanation.

If he excludes the PS then any space within the AMF still has the bubble suppressed. The only difference is that even if the druid is inside the AMF any area outside of it is still under the planar bubble.

That's assuming Planar Bubble is, in fact, an emanation, which is my assumption since it requires concentration.

The other option is a Burst or a Spread. In both cases any areas outside the AMF would continue to be affected no matter if the PS is suppressed or not.
Presumably, being in an AMF prevents the PS from concentrating to maintain his bubble (since it's a Su ability), so it would only last another 1d10 rounds and then end unless another use of Planar Bubble is expended.

Either way, the benefits of the Planar Bubble are not a buff that affects a creature. It affects an area, which ESA does absolutely nothing to exclude.
To make a counter example, Inspire Courage affects a creature that can hear the bard sing. As long as the bard is not in the AMF and the excluded person isn't deaf or silenced, he is affected.

The same applies to any spells that affect a creature. As long as they're cast from outside the AMF they work because the AMF doesn't affect you.
Any area spells, such as BFC like Solid Fog or Stinking Cloud, are suppressed instead, since the AMF still affects the area you occupy.
My point is that it might not matter that the AMF and bubble are in the same space. The bubble is something controlled by the druid, so it just can't be impacted by the AMF, even as an identical bubble from a druid five feet away would be shut down unceremoniously. The AMF can't affect you, so it can't affect you, area, buff, or anything besides. The fact that the bubble is always connected to you, while some spell cast on an object on your person might not be, lends some credence to the position. It just doesn't seem like this is a thing with a clear cut and unambiguous answer.

[sleepyphoenixx]

My point is that it might not matter that the AMF and bubble are in the same space. The bubble is something controlled by the druid, so it just can't be impacted by the AMF, even as an identical bubble from a druid five feet away would be shut down unceremoniously. The AMF can't affect you, so it can't affect you, area, buff, or anything besides. The fact that the bubble is always connected to you, while some spell cast on an object on your person might not be, lends some credence to the position. It just doesn't seem like this is a thing with a clear cut and unambiguous answer.

That seems like a stretch to me. Objects you're wearing or carrying counting as part of you for spell effects is one thing.
Applying the same to an emanation of arbitrary size doesn't really make sense to me.

Since there is no definite RAW on the issue (afaik) i can see how it can be argued though. One of the many "ask your DM" conflicts i guess.

[eggynack]

That seems like a stretch to me. Objects you're wearing or carrying counting as part of you for spell effects is one thing.
Applying the same to an emanation of arbitrary size doesn't really make sense to me.
I actually think it's the opposite in this case. An AMF that's turning off some item I'm carrying isn't really affecting me, at least not directly. An AMF that's turning off a spell effect that's attached to me, on the other hand, might be affecting me.


Since there is no definite RAW on the issue (afaik) i can see how it can be argued though. One of the many "ask your DM" conflicts i guess.
Pretty much. That line about the spell in question just not affecting you is so oddly broad and vague.