Advise concerning our DM

[CryptbornAkryea]

Our DM has instructed us to create new, gestalt, characters.
Cool, I dig gestalt.
Problem shows up earlier tonight when he asked me if the other player is going to play a powerful enough character that he will have to 'up the ante' on the fights he pits against us.

There are only two PCs, myself and my gf.
Our DM is new to running game.
We've talked to him numerous times about the railroad he has us on.
We can't get into our characters... for example: a recent trap. 6" wide spikes 6" apart that thrust 9' up into the less than 10' room. I rolled natural one on a reflex save to avoid getting speared in a bad way. Instead of the inevitable perforation I earned with that poor roll I managed to clear the hazardous area with 12 hp lost. How invested can I be expected to be in a character that has no chance of death outside of an predestined occasion?

Ethics, guys?

I vote bringing in broken, ie cancer mage with festering anger and vile rigidity, characters. I've even been looking real hard at the d2 crusader.

There's gotta be another way...

Help?

[Xerlith]

You know, the Spiked Pit Trap deals about 2d6+2d4+2. So it deals about... 14hp at average. It seems like your DM's problem is not railroading, but giving you not-challenge appropriate encounters. What level were you when that happened? At 1st or 2nd level that trap can be deadly.
They didn't fudge the rolls. Didn't cheat. Just played it as written. I don't see a reason to complain.

Don't go passive-aggresive on them. Talk. It solves much more. Also, if they want to turn up the heat, just go with an optimised Tier 3 character, but if you roll out the TO builds..> Well. That'll get ugly. If I was the DM in question, I'd ask the player to tone down the build, if it wouldn't help, I'd kick them out - in my games that's getting way ahead of the optimisation level of the group (most of the time).

[CryptbornAkryea]

So the lamp post spike trap wasn't the most convincing example. My apologies.

The 'optional' quests that NEED to be completed before anything else happens.
If we try to go to the town less than an afternoon's trek away we find the previously open road to be blocked off.
We are forced to do what he wants, when he wants.
He introduced my most current character in such a fashion that a full-on fight to the death was initiated between the PCs. When my character killed the other PC our DM brought her back to life in a shiny, sparkly display that was both unexplained in any way and lacking any penalty. Yeah, no XP loss, no level loss.

We've tried talking to him. Individually and separately. He doesn't listen nor learn.

edit: Oh yeah, he brought her back because 'I have plans for her'.

choo choo

[eggynack]

It looks like you're going in the wrong direction with your intended plan screwing. Infinite strength and infinite damage don't really do anything to impact railroads apart from the occasional murder of enemies intended to be impossible to murder. Instead, run a full caster. Casters have some degree of influence over their own fate, whether they're flying over road blocks, or destroying the area around a trap. The DM would probably just come up with more insane ways to maintain the railroad, but it'd at least be some fun.

Alternatively, and this is a better idea, leave. It doesn't sound like you're having fun, and it doesn't sound like there's much in the way of promised future fun, so vote with your feet. Maybe find a new game, or maybe start your own, or maybe get really into the world of stamp collecting. It doesn't really matter, as long as you're not doing something that you dislike this much.

[thedmring]

Our DM has instructed us to create new, gestalt, characters.
Cool, I dig gestalt.
Problem shows up earlier tonight when he asked me if the other player is going to play a powerful enough character that he will have to 'up the ante' on the fights he pits against us.

There are only two PCs, myself and my gf.
Our DM is new to running game.
We've talked to him numerous times about the railroad he has us on.
We can't get into our characters... for example: a recent trap. 6" wide spikes 6" apart that thrust 9' up into the less than 10' room. I rolled natural one on a reflex save to avoid getting speared in a bad way. Instead of the inevitable perforation I earned with that poor roll I managed to clear the hazardous area with 12 hp lost. How invested can I be expected to be in a character that has no chance of death outside of an predestined occasion?

Ethics, guys?

I vote bringing in broken, ie cancer mage with festering anger and vile rigidity, characters. I've even been looking real hard at the d2 crusader.

There's gotta be another way...

Help?

I vote bringing in the cancer mage. If your dm is afraid to challenge you then he shouldn't be a dm. So I say bring in what ever you can and make him realize what a little character optimization can do.

[eggynack]

I vote bringing in the cancer mage. If your dm is afraid to challenge you then he shouldn't be a dm. So I say bring in what ever you can and make him realize what a little character optimization can do.
I dunno. It just feels like such an unadaptive plan, unless you're running spells off of strength with illumian or something. Sure, nigh infinite strength can solve some non-combat problems that really high strength wouldn't be able to, but I've gotta figure that something as simple as 20 levels of a tier 1 full caster, or even that plus PrC's, would let you jump off the tracks to a much greater degree. Full casting is robust in a way that cancer mage just isn't, especially if you're running something like a cleric or druid, for whom finding spells in the wild is a non-issue.

[CryptbornAkryea]

Totemist2/Duskblade2/CancerMage2//DreadNecromancer6
Illumian cheese
After only one year of meditation he'll have 92 bonus 3rd lvl dread necro spells

[shadowseve]

Totemist2/Duskblade2/CancerMage2//DreadNecromancer6
Illumian cheese
After only one year of meditation he'll have 92 bonus 3rd lvl dread necro spells

why would the dm give you a year to meditate and rest? going cancer mage won't solve the issue and the cancer mage build you posted can be countered. This is a communications issue. I say either talk to the dm as a group, find another class or a new dm.

I've had several dm issues. Trust me talk it over.

[eggynack]

Totemist2/Duskblade2/CancerMage2//DreadNecromancer6
Illumian cheese
After only one year of meditation he'll have 92 bonus 3rd lvl dread necro spells
Yeah, missed the gestalt part. That definitely makes the plan somewhat better. Still, if your goal is truly game destruction, you should tend towards a caster that is better than dread necro.

[CryptbornAkryea]

The dread necro is for my own fun.

Backstory is entirely up to us.

And let him figure out my weakness to touch attacks and/saves!

Fielding a horde of undead, throwing spells around willy-nilly, and punching open adamantine doors... fun times!

[aleucard]

This is a strictly OOC problem, so the true solution is almost strictly OOC. Tell him point-blank that neither of you enjoy the Mister Rodger's Train Ride and unless he uproots the railroad tracks, you both will either do your level best to do so in-character by whatever mind-bending means you have access to (this is what the board will be in a position to help you with), or leave the game and find someone who knows how to DM without turning it into a passenger ride for the players. The passive-aggressive approach like what you're wanting to do is just going to get both sides more pissed off at each other than they have any need to be without any progress. This puts all the cards on the table in block capitals, and provides an opportunity to pack it in if needs be without either side hating the other at the end of it.

[weckar]

How did you manage to get on top of 9' spikes, with only 1' to maneuver in, BY ACCIDENT?

[CryptbornAkryea]

Sorry, wasn't a botched reflex save.
It was a botched JUMP check, lol. I had stepped on the trigger tile and the best the two of us could come up with was a jump across the tiles we now knew had these massive, body piercing spikes waiting to impale us. I had to attempt a 15' horizontal jump from a standing position.

[weckar]

Ooooooh so it was a pit? From your opening post I figured there was just a bunch of spikes standing in the room blocking the way forward :smallbiggrin:

[prufock]

The 'optional' quests that NEED to be completed before anything else happens.
If we try to go to the town less than an afternoon's trek away we find the previously open road to be blocked off.

"We go around the roadblock."

[weckar]

Honestly, reading all this it almost seems like you are playing a CRPG more than anything. Your DM DOES know the difference, right?

[CryptbornAkryea]

The room appeared empty enough. Until one of the dozen triggers were tripped. Suddenly the spikes shot up from the floor.

My goal was to jump across this no-mans land before the spikes shot up again. Seriously, 9' in a second or two? Solid steel 6" thick with 6" clearance?
yuck

[CryptbornAkryea]

CRPG? What's that mean?

[weckar]

Seriously, 9' in a second or two?
yuck That's really not all that fast. Barely over 3 miles per hour :P

CRPG is a computer rpg. As opposed to a tabletop rpg.

[CryptbornAkryea]

CRPG, got now. Lol, thanks, weckar
That's honestly the feel we are getting, heh

And 3mph of anything penetrating your body would hurt like WOW!

And don't forget the botched jump check. Correct me if I'm wrong, shouldn't a botch in such a scenario be cause for more than a flesh wound?
We were lvl 6. He is giving us max hp at lvl up. D10. I've got a real nice con modifier... 12hp? Doesn't even rate a bandaid.

[weckar]

If all else fails, go insane. Tear everything down, kill anyone on sight, destroy everything normal and decent. See if you have any real dangerous enemies then.

And by that I mean your character, not you as a player.

[Sir Chuckles]

CRPG, got now. Lol, thanks, weckar
That's honestly the feel we are getting, heh

And 3mph of anything penetrating your body would hurt like WOW!

And don't forget the botched jump check. Correct me if I'm wrong, shouldn't a botch in such a scenario be cause for more than a flesh wound?
We were lvl 6. He is giving us max hp at lvl up. D10. I've got a real nice con modifier... 12hp? Doesn't even rate a bandaid.

Overestimating the damage. Not to mention that a Nat 1 is not technically a automatic success on skill checks. The damage from the trap in general is also somewhat low. Was it the only trap or was it just a piddly little annoyance?
But the rest of it? Definitely sounds CRPG-style.
It's likely he prewritting the session and doing the bad bad thing of not preparing at least 3 alternates, using a poor quality module, or possibly even copy-pasting a map from a video game and not properly adjusting it to 3.5 style. I've borrowed video game maps with varying success myself, one time an entire game world, and really sounds like he's forget to adjust the events and traps to better fit a P&P. I've made that mistake.

[eggynack]

And don't forget the botched jump check. Correct me if I'm wrong, shouldn't a botch in such a scenario be cause for more than a flesh wound?
Not really. Critical failure isn't a thing in this system, and while failing by a lot and failing by a little can make a difference with skill checks in some specific ways, I don't think this is one of those ways. You should try thinking of traps less as hyper-lethal doom devices, and more as subtle resource destroyers, allowing your enemy to turn his lair into a big chunk of attrition. Dying instantly on some trap on whom my only failing was a low roll sounds kinda boring, actually. I mean, if he's always treating you with kid gloves, then that can be a problem, but if your mind is just stuck on this one trap, then it might be time to get it unstuck.

[Segev]

Honestly, it just sounds like somebody else needs to DM, or you need to not play with this group. If you're having so little fun and the DM just isn't hearing or listening to your complaints, advice, or requests, being a jerk and trying to wreck the game in a Player-vs-DM sort of way will only make everybody - including you - madder at the whole thing, and it might damage friendships.

Either get somebody else (perhaps you?) to DM for a while, or don't play. Don't go in with the intent to ruin this for the DM when it's just you and your girlfriend as players. It's just not worth it. Your time will be better spent going to a movie as a group or something.

[CryptbornAkryea]

My gf, the other PC, forbids me to neglect to regale the playground with the tale of The Glittery Skeletal Dragon Thing!

ahem

We are crossing the battlefield that was, until this day, a sleepy village, in hopes of finding the ruler of this mighty kingdom. The army of corpses shambling into the paths of our flashing blades hinders not our advancement to our noble king.

At least, not until large bones rose up from the soil at our feet, shook off the dirt and mud and coalesced into the skeletal remains of an adult dragon!

What-ho! We threw ourselves at this beast!
Our combined 8 levels of unoptimized fury were like so much flatulence on a windy day.

And yet we struggled on. We had nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. Naught but to fight and, most likely, die. A glorious death!

Except for the part where the skeletal dragon suddenly and for no apparent reason BURST into a cloud of glittering dust, and a voice spoke from the heavens!

'I'm giving you that one, he was too powerful to let you fight.'

[CryptbornAkryea]

I think it may well be time to give him an intervention. Perhaps that may work

[Sir Chuckles]

Sweet Mother Teresa on the hood of Mercedes Benz, revoke his DM-hood right away.
You DM, get a new guy to DM with him in the party, something.

If that's honestly not an option, sit him down, and force him to read every possible good DMing guide he can find, plus whatever we find.

[weckar]

Man, now I want to see that story in webcomic form. It has me laughing still!

In all seriousness though (too late), PCs die, and players are usually okay with that. Does your DM know that it is okay for PCs to die? He might just feel he is keeping the game fun for everyone by making sure that doesn't happen. Maybe he thinks that you will throw a tantrum if your finely crafted character dies. Not an at all unnatural fear.

[CryptbornAkryea]

We've discussed, with great mirth, the mortality of our characters. With him!

PC death is fine, in fact, it can be fun!

He knows we aren't getting the most fun out of his game. We've told it's not really fun.

He's just so... EAGER! Eager to tell his story, anyway. Turns out this storyline we are playing out is the precursor to the book he hopes to one day write. Wish we'd known that from the beginning.

[weckar]

So everything is predetermined, and really it doesn't matter if you're even there, as the story wouldn't be any different if he were just sitting alone in the room narrating it to himself.

Ouch.

[HammeredWharf]

Turns out this storyline we are playing out is the precursor to the book he hoped to one day write.

Oh dear. He needs to understand the players shouldn't be in his story. They should be making their own story.

[weckar]

The real question is: Why ISN'T he writing that book? He should get it out of his system, so he can tell new stories WITH you instead of TO you.

[aleucard]

Ah..... Huh. Yep, I think I know a good way to at least help this issue.

Direct him towards this thread and its derivatives, (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?275152-What-am-I-supposed-to-do) and inform him that you as players feel like you're in a more friendly and less bulls#@$ version of that. If he has any comprehension of what is going on, then he should be able to get the hint. Otherwise, direct him to get an account here so that the community can help his rehabilitation. No amount of in-character shenanigans will stop this madness in any way save those that will cause more OOC problems than it deserves or even needs.

[Qwertystop]

Yeah. Talk to him, don't try to trash the whole game. While stories of trashing games can be funny to read, they don't actually solve any problems of the actual situation.

[John Longarrow]

We've discussed, with great mirth, the mortality of our characters. With him!

PC death is fine, in fact, it can be fun!

He knows we aren't getting the most fun out of his game. We've told it's not really fun.

He's just so... EAGER! Eager to tell his story, anyway. Turns out this storyline we are playing out is the precursor to the book he hopes to one day write. Wish we'd known that from the beginning.

Personally, I'd skip a game like that. I don't want to be the random dialog generator for some wouldbe writters fantasy story. Suggest to your GF that the two of your find a new group. Barring that, read the first couple years of Looking For Group and play Richard. Warlock / Monk with Energy Substitution for eldrich blast should be lots of fun!

[CryptbornAkryea]

The gist of what I'm reading here is: Get out asap.

lol

[Captnq]

Make a sacrifice to slender man and ask him to fix it. (Too Soon?)

Is there any chance he just sucks as a DM? Maybe he just needs to use a module for a while or something. Instead of Gestalt, go with a small group, maybe two PCs each and run something like Rappan Athuk. The players found it rather easy, but it still was fun and not that hard for a DM to run.

[Shining Wrath]

"My character sits down and refuses to move". "Mine, too".

"In fact, we take naps. When we have another choice other than the railroad, we'll wake up nice and refreshed."

Then pull out your cell phones and start playing Candy Crush.

[Urpriest]

How experienced is this guy as a player? "I'm doing this as a precursor to a book" is one of the biggest bad-DM cliches around, and if he's ever been part of an actual group then he's probably heard them make fun of DMs who did that. If he's not that experienced, you should suggest that you all join a group with someone who knows how to DM, so he can learn the ropes.

[dascarletm]

Really you and your GF should stop complaining, and be grateful that this aspiring writer has bestowed such a great honor of helping him in playing out his precursor. From what I've seen this guy is:

A: Creative and Original
and
B: Extremely talented.

You should be ashamed of not enjoying this as much as him. You need to be more eager. Stop trying to write your own story, you selfish selfish man. DM your own story, and you'll know how it feels to have whiny players complaining about wanting to get off the "railroads." Gosh.


:smallwink::smalltongue:

[CryptbornAkryea]

This is his first attempt at running a game. Says he has years of experience as a player.
I am also new as a DM. We are alternating between his game and mine.
I honestly don't want to know anything about the groups he has played with... I haven't seen evidence of quality gameplay. I'm still waiting to see imagination, or even personality, in his character.

[RFLS]

I vote bringing in the cancer mage. If your dm is afraid to challenge you then he shouldn't be a dm. So I say bring in what ever you can and make him realize what a little character optimization can do.


I dunno. It just feels like such an unadaptive plan, unless you're running spells off of strength with illumian or something. Sure, nigh infinite strength can solve some non-combat problems that really high strength wouldn't be able to, but I've gotta figure that something as simple as 20 levels of a tier 1 full caster, or even that plus PrC's, would let you jump off the tracks to a much greater degree. Full casting is robust in a way that cancer mage just isn't, especially if you're running something like a cleric or druid, for whom finding spells in the wild is a non-issue.

It....why are we encouraging this? Trying to beat the DM is counterproductive. It's an immature way to deal with an out of character problem. And finally, it's really, really stupid - you cannot beat God. The only advice here is "talk to your DM; if you can't agree, walk away (hopefully without burning a bridge)."

[eggynack]

It....why are we encouraging this? Trying to beat the DM is counterproductive. It's an immature way to deal with an out of character problem. And finally, it's really, really stupid - you cannot beat God. The only advice here is "talk to your DM; if you can't agree, walk away (hopefully without burning a bridge)."
Eh, I already gave the reasonable answer. Realistically, given that conversation has already happened, leaving may be the only viable option. However, the possibility of flying above a DM induced massive roadblock amuses me. It is what it is.

[CryptbornAkryea]

I think what will actually happen is we will present the cheese characters to him in order to illustrate the means with which we are ready and able to wreck his world. Once he sees how bad it's gotten either he will capitulate and allow us to disembark his train, or we will cease to play his game entirely.

Should he become willing to accept criticism and instruction we will create proper characters. I'm already thinking about the warforged Mega-Man build.

We shall see what happens.

Thanks for all your thoughts, advises and opinions!

[Dr.Gara]

Make a sacrifice to slender man and ask him to fix it. (Too Soon?)


Yeah, probably. I'd wait a week or so, to be honest.

That's when the Slenderman told me I can make jokes.

[Arbane]

He's just so... EAGER! Eager to tell his story, anyway. Turns out this storyline we are playing out is the precursor to the book he hopes to one day write. Wish we'd known that from the beginning.

Run Away.

If he wants you to act out his script, demand minimum wage.