[3.5] Awesome uses for Silent Image

[bendking]

Go wild, stories will also do :smallbiggrin:

[Droningbass]

Well, Silent Image can be made a little more effective through the use of Ghost Sound, so that makes a few more options available. One of the most obvious uses of Silent Image alone would be to have an Illusion walk into an area that you expect might have an ambush.

One option at lower levels could be to create a Large monster of some kind (like a Large or Huge Dragon, depending on your cubic feet limit) and accompany it with a Ghost Sound of Roars and intimidating Draconic Speech. This could scare away some baddies if implemented at the right time, or could be used as a distraction in certain circumstances.

There are some other nice benefits, but I guess it really depends on the circumstance. The only big drawback is the short duration of Ghost Sound and the concentration duration of Silent Image (meaning that you'll have to cast Ghost Sound first).

For silly uses, you could always just use Silent Image alone to scare unsuspecting NPCs in dark alleyways... or Ghost Sound for that matter...

[tyriuth]

I always liked using them to change the battle field when versing semi/unintelligent monsters. Illusory walls of stone were my favorite thing when I played low level beguilers. Not only did they make them less likely to attack things, but they also provided concealment to those behind it.

Silent image is a great spell, but many lack the required imagination to use them.

[Necroticplague]

Go shadowcraft mage. Silent image now becomes many conjurations and all evocations. All for only one spell prepped.

[HunterOfJello]

Give it the shape of a dangerous creature that will specifically manipulate their actions.

Create the illusion of a medusa and people who see it will quickly cover their eyes to avoid looking at her. Create an Illithid and people will either run away as fast as they can or immediately attack it with the strongest ability they have.

Everyone knows that you should avoid looking at a Medusa and that Illithids are dangerous but squishy.

[Iwasforger03]

Go shadowcraft mage. Silent image now becomes many conjurations and all evocations. All for only one spell prepped.

To clarify: With the correct build, you can cast every evocation and conjuration spell in the sorcerer wizard lists, and every other 7th lvl spell or lower. All for one spell.


I do so love how Elan used it to hold a dock for a while waiting for Haley.

[Kantolin]

In my opinion, some of the best uses for illusions involves mixing them with real things.

If there is a real prismatic wall and three illusory prismatic walls, most thing aren't going to see how lucky they feel. And summoning wolves and then illusory wolves can essentially double your initial effect.

Making an illusion of obviously magical mist that fills the air, crackling with purple essences, is a great way of blocking line of sight until something walks into it. Be sure to have a strand of it go through all your party member's spaces, thus alerting them to the fact that it's not real and summarily allowing them to see through it.

Then of course, it makes a terrific show for people. Storytelling is fun.

[Jeff the Green]

I recently used it a couple of cool ways. We're fighting a couple of allips (though, strictly speaking, no one knows what they are) and our Warblade was fascinated by their aura (along with our Artificer, but he's already mostly irrelevant in combat because a recent reincarnation left him with no properly-sized armor or weapon). So my Beguiler cast silent image and made a skeleton come around a corner, draw its sword, and point it at the Warblade while smirking evilly, and since it was a new obvious threat, the Warblade was back in the fight. (Yes, skeletons can smirk. No, I don't know how.)

Next round I dropped that illusion since it'd served its purpose and made a silent image of a fog cloud. Through circumlocution I informed the party members that it was an illusion and not fog cloud or some such, so they could automatically disbelieve and see through it. Best of all, since the allips are incorporeal they can't actually touch the fog and feel that it's not cold and clammy and so don't get a save to disbelieve!

I'm also planning on using it to set up ambushes by creating a tree for the Warblade (who's not great at hiding otherwise) to stand in. Again, autodisbelief means he sees through it with no trouble.

The other thing I've used it for (on a different character; an Archivist//Beguiler) is to summon something nasty and then "summon" something else the next round. You have to keep the illusion from actually hitting the enemy and hope that they don't attack it (a good strategy is to make it not particularly threatening but also hard to kill), but (at least by my DM's ruling) it gives flanking bonuses and of course it can serve the same purpose of blocking the enemy from getting to a vulnerable party member.

[TypoNinja]

My preferred use is subtle. Subtle doesn't get a will save, subtle doesn't get noticed.

Is there a well known ravine in the area? Don't hide it, people will notice its missing. Move it a few feet off from its actual location then herd your enemies toward it. Enemies who think they still have another 10 feet before the pit starts.

Similarly, knock out only the middle span of a bridge, illusion replaces it. People check the first couple of squares, find real stone then charge across.

Need to hide? Invisibility is the obvious option, but its the obvious option. People check for invisibility. Make one wall of a room your in a foot or so further in and hide inside your fake wall.

The reverse works great too, expecting an ambush. Everybody gets invisibility while an illusion of the party walks a head of you. Seeing your whole party, nobody will check for invisibility because they already see exactly what they are expecting.

Illusion that isn't believable gets noticed fast, illusion that shows everybody what the expect to see is the most effective.

[Jeff the Green]

Is there a well known ravine in the area? Don't hide it, people will notice its missing. Move it a few feet off from its actual location then herd your enemies toward it. Enemies who think they still have another 10 feet before the pit starts.

That won't actually work. You'd need a glamer to create the appearance of a pit; the best a figment could do is a 2D image of the ravine over solid ground, which isn't exactly convincing.

[aleucard]

That won't actually work. You'd need a glamer to create the appearance of a pit; the best a figment could do is a 2D image of the ravine over solid ground, which isn't exactly convincing.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FKEdEQThz5k/TfBOpOeYwlI/AAAAAAAAGwE/Xxpb8CWFPr8/s640/Mind+Your+Step+Creative+3D+Illusion+Art-05.jpg Done. It doesn't need to be perfect to screw with an inattentive target, it just needs to be able to stand up to a glance, which shouldn't be hard for a dedicated illusionist to pull off no matter what you use to determine that.

EDIT: Bear in mind also that the design philosophy behind this isn't actually to take out the entire opposing party. Any player that thinks that such could be assured without employing the kind of manipulation that makes me wonder why the DM isn't crying tears of blood by now deserves the karma coming their way. The point is to cause the opponent to either (best case scenario) lose some of their front-liners while stopping them in their tracks for a massive amount of time or (worst case) cause them to become highly cautious of their surroundings thus slowing them down significantly for the cost of a level 1 spell slot and less than 6 seconds of actual work-time. The illusion does not need to be perfect or even anywhere close in order to do either. What it needs to do is make someone unsuspecting of an illusion to not notice it at a glance from full-speed horseback. Not that tall an order, I'd say.

EDIT 2: Well, technically, the absolute worst-case scenario is that they never get close enough to the ravine that your modifications become an issue thus negating both outcomes, but even then all you're out is a single level 1 spell slot and a Standard action. At the levels where raiding parties are relevant, several fixes of the stronger classes with access to this spell allow infinite casting of Lv. 1 spells; they really aren't worth that much except in infinite amounts at those levels, and even then there's only so many actions to be taken in a fight.

[georgie_leech]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FKEdEQThz5k/TfBOpOeYwlI/AAAAAAAAGwE/Xxpb8CWFPr8/s640/Mind+Your+Step+Creative+3D+Illusion+Art-05.jpg Done. It doesn't need to be perfect to screw with an inattentive target, it just needs to be able to stand up to a glance, which shouldn't be hard for a dedicated illusionist to pull off no matter what you use to determine that.

EDIT: Bear in mind also that the design philosophy behind this isn't actually to take out the entire opposing party. Any player that thinks that such could be assured without employing the kind of manipulation that makes me wonder why the DM isn't crying tears of blood by now deserves the karma coming their way. The point is to cause the opponent to either (best case scenario) lose some of their front-liners while stopping them in their tracks for a massive amount of time or (worst case) cause them to become highly cautious of their surroundings thus slowing them down significantly for the cost of a level 1 spell slot and less than 6 seconds of actual work-time. The illusion does not need to be perfect or even anywhere close in order to do either. What it needs to do is make someone unsuspecting of an illusion to not notice it at a glance from full-speed horseback. Not that tall an order, I'd say.

Eh, the specific example kind of undermines your argument. Perspective tricks like that only work from a specific angle; from anywhere else, they look like weird shapes. Seeing a bunch of odd shapes or strange colours where you expect a ravine would be a good way to tip someone off that something magical happened.

[aleucard]

Eh, the specific example kind of undermines your argument. Perspective tricks like that only work from a specific angle; from anywhere else, they look like weird shapes. Seeing a bunch of odd shapes or strange colours where you expect a ravine would be a good way to tip someone off that something magical happened.

Part of the point of an Illusion is that they aren't 2D. There is no mandatory maximum of the quality of the image save the Will save (heh), and this use means that they won't get a chance to make that save until after they have to make a Reflex save for it. What version of Silent Image are you operating under where they aren't 3D?

[georgie_leech]

Part of the point of an Illusion is that they aren't 2D. There is no mandatory maximum of the quality of the image save the Will save (heh), and this use means that they won't get a chance to make that save until after they have to make a Reflex save for it. What version of Silent Image are you operating under where they aren't 3D?

The part where you're trying to make it appear that there's a gap in the ground. Make a mountain or a wall or a charging fanged beast, but negative space is extremely difficult to pull off from multiple perspectives.

EDIT: If you're just trying to extend the ground on the one side, go nuts. I'm addressing the idea of "moving" it over, which would mean making an area of solid ground appear empty..

[Alent]

I'm fond of creating photospheres of the expected scenery minus incriminating bits around Scrying sensors.

As has already been pointed out, subtle doesn't allow for a save. :smallamused:

Once I stole something by creating a silent image of the object around itself, and removing the real object with an invisible enveloping pit and giving it the command word to close with Drow Sign Language. (There was an argument about "Can you do that?" that ended in a "this time only!" for the sake of continuing the session.) The silent image bought us the time to look completely innocent by being in another location.

[TypoNinja]

That won't actually work. You'd need a glamer to create the appearance of a pit; the best a figment could do is a 2D image of the ravine over solid ground, which isn't exactly convincing.

I see no stipulation of 2D in the Silent image spell, indeed the effect is given as a volume and not a surface area.

Also, Magic. Just because crazy drawing on the ground only works from a specific vantage point doesn't mean my magic won't work from all vantage points. Actually we already have technology that can do that. Displays that show a different image depending on your viewing angle, so not only have we thought of it, its been done.

[supermonkeyjoe]

I see no stipulation of 2D in the Silent image spell, indeed the effect is given as a volume and not a surface area.

Also, Magic. Just because crazy drawing on the ground only works from a specific vantage point doesn't mean my magic won't work from all vantage points. Actually we already have technology that can do that. Displays that show a different image depending on your viewing angle, so not only have we thought of it, its been done.

Actually, silent image is a figment and


Figment

A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. (It is not a personalized mental impression.)


You could make an illusion of a pit with silent image using clever perspective tricks, it would require great skill (maybe an INT check or craft: illusion or something) and the caster would need to maintain concentration to alter the illusion as the creature moves and it would only affect a single creature so not exactly game breaking

[Segev]

The best sorts of things to "summon" with Silent Image tend to be incorporeal monsters with well-known Bad Touch attacks. Shadows are easy to fake up convincingly, and the fact that they're silent will raise no eyebrows whatsoever.

[Curmudgeon]

Save money!

A camouflaged pit trap, a simple trap with the lowest CR in the game, costs 1,800 gp (Dungeon Master's Guide, page 70). If you can dig a 10' deep trench, Silent Image will provide the camouflage. Concentrate and make the illusory grass over the pit nod gently in the breeze.

[Rijan_Sai]

Actually, silent image is a figment and



You could make an illusion of a pit with silent image using clever perspective tricks, it would require great skill (maybe an INT check or craft: illusion or something) and the caster would need to maintain concentration to alter the illusion as the creature moves and it would only affect a single creature so not exactly game breaking

So...

A - Monster A
B - Monster B
ID - Illusionary (Red) Dragon

A <-ID B

The Illusionist uses the Image spell to cause the dragon to appear facing A. Does B see the dragon's head, or it's shiny backside? I posit that B would be trying to avoid the Tail attack...at least until it realizes the illusion. They are both seeing the same thing, (B is not seeing a Blue dragon, for example,) but from different angles.

Silent Image (and the others, if they have that same "see the same thing" clause,) would be much less effective if every creature saw exactly the same thing from every angle, instead of what would be expected from moving around the image.
"(It is not a personalized mental impression.)" <-This actually helps my point. It's not projected into the mind of the target, it is (essentially) a "hologram" projected into the air.

[georgie_leech]

So...

A - Monster A
B - Monster B
ID - Illusionary (Red) Dragon

A <-ID B

The Illusionist uses the Image spell to cause the dragon to appear facing A. Does B see the dragon's head, or it's shiny backside? I posit that B would be trying to avoid the Tail attack...at least until it realizes the illusion. They are both seeing the same thing, (B is not seeing a Blue dragon, for example,) but from different angles.

Silent Image (and the others, if they have that same "see the same thing" clause,) would be much less effective if every creature saw exactly the same thing from every angle, instead of what would be expected from moving around the image.
"(It is not a personalized mental impression.)" <-This actually helps my point. It's not projected into the mind of the target, it is (essentially) a "hologram" projected into the air.

Yes. Again, by all means create all the 3d images you want. Creating negative space like a hole requires very specific perspective tricks.

[aleucard]

Yes. Again, by all means create all the 3d images you want. Creating negative space like a hole requires very specific perspective tricks.

Or, MAYBE, it requires being able to properly visualize a hole, just like any other thing in existence. This is NOT you drawing something on the ground; this is you screwing with the sight of anybody who is in range so that they see exactly what you visualize. Are you going to homebrew a skill check of some kind so that people can use the spell as designed?

[georgie_leech]

Or, MAYBE, it requires being able to properly visualize a hole, just like any other thing in existence. This is NOT you drawing something on the ground; this is you screwing with the sight of anybody who is in range so that they see exactly what you visualize. Are you going to homebrew a skill check of some kind so that people can use the spell as designed?

Honestly, for the more detailed images, yes, that is exactly what I do. The spell is versatile enough as is. Adding a hole to the ground is difficult because it requires depth, it requires that you be able to see different parts of the terrain it "exposes." It is extremely difficult to pull off that kind of detail without concentrating, and even then it would likely only work for a single creature without contorted shapes that match the varying backgrounds of multiple viewers. The amount of perceptual trickery required to keep a hole a hole and not an oblong 3d shape that rises out of the terrain is immense, and not something I think is appropriate for a level 1 spell without additional investment.

Again, if you're just extending the ground on one edge of a larger ravine, so that it appears 15 feet thick at one point instead of its actual 20, go nuts. That's not difficult, that's filling in space. If you want to enmasse shift the ravine or create the appearance of absence where there is none, use a glamour, something that actively tricks the mind of viewers, not just what amounts to a magical 3d painting.

[aleucard]

Honestly, for the more detailed images, yes, that is exactly what I do. The spell is versatile enough as is. Adding a hole to the ground is difficult because it requires depth, it requires that you be able to see different parts of the terrain it "exposes." It is extremely difficult to pull off that kind of detail without concentrating, and even then it would likely only work for a single creature without contorted shapes that match the varying backgrounds of multiple viewers. The amount of perceptual trickery required to keep a hole a hole and not an oblong 3d shape that rises out of the terrain is immense, and not something I think is appropriate for a level 1 spell without additional investment.

Again, if you're just extending the ground on one edge of a larger ravine, so that it appears 15 feet thick at one point instead of its actual 20, go nuts. That's not difficult, that's filling in space. If you want to enmasse shift the ravine or create the appearance of absence where there is none, use a glamour, something that actively tricks the mind of viewers, not just what amounts to a magical 3d painting.

Part of the problem is that that exact same argument can be made for several much more complicated objects. Assuming that the targets don't pass their will saves, does a Dragon or Balor or whatever other complicated beastie have to deal with perspective issues like this? Considering the number of moving parts, it is MUCH more complicated than imagining a couple extra feet of ground where there isn't and a couple feet less where there is. Unless if you're going to say that a Silent Image is 2D, in which case it applies for EVERYTHING, it is 3D for everything, which negates this issue entirely.

[Sith_Happens]

Part of the problem is that that exact same argument can be made for several much more complicated objects. Assuming that the targets don't pass their will saves, does a Dragon or Balor or whatever other complicated beastie have to deal with perspective issues like this? Considering the number of moving parts, it is MUCH more complicated than imagining a couple extra feet of ground where there isn't and a couple feet less where there is. Unless if you're going to say that a Silent Image is 2D, in which case it applies for EVERYTHING, it is 3D for everything, which negates this issue entirely.

That is simply not how images work. You can create an image of something easily, an image of nothing (e.g.- an open pit) where there's actually something is much harder.

[georgie_leech]

Part of the problem is that that exact same argument can be made for several much more complicated objects. Assuming that the targets don't pass their will saves, does a Dragon or Balor or whatever other complicated beastie have to deal with perspective issues like this? Considering the number of moving parts, it is MUCH more complicated than imagining a couple extra feet of ground where there isn't and a couple feet less where there is. Unless if you're going to say that a Silent Image is 2D, in which case it applies for EVERYTHING, it is 3D for everything, which negates this issue entirely.

Not really. A 3D object like a Balor behaves like a 3D object, reflecting light like it should. Absent perspective tricks though, a hole requires that you be tricked into seeing the distinct lack of something there. I can imagine a 3d painting being magical enough to move convincingly on its own; that's essentially what 3d animation is. I can't imagine a 3d painting that can trick me into seeing a hole where there was none from any angle; certain viewing angles, as in the earlier perspective tricks, sure, but not from any. That would require a degree of apparent spatial warping I don't believe Figments capable of. A Glamour, fine, those trick you into seeing a hole because it can draw on your own ideas of what a hole looks like.

To put it another way, remember that you're creating a 3d object that tries to behave the way you want. You could create a cube (or a dragon) that looks 5 feet away from you when you're 5 feet, from either side. If it was a 5-foot cube, you and a partner could stand 15 feet away from each other and agree that it was 5 feet between you. If you tried to make it a 5-foot hole in the ground instead, the near edge would need to appear 10 feet away, because you're supposed to be looking at the far wall of the hole, not the near edge (trigonometry says it would be a little further, but whatever, not important to the point). In this case, you and your partner would see each other as 15 feet away if looking at each other, but 20 feet away when looking at the ground, from every possible orientation. I know it's possible from specific angles; I've seen such perspective tricks before. I disagree that it's possible to do so from every conceivable angle without actually creating a hole in the ground.

[Jeff the Green]

Not really. A 3D object like a Balor behaves like a 3D object, reflecting light like it should. Absent perspective tricks though, a hole requires that you be tricked into seeing the distinct lack of something there. I can imagine a 3d painting being magical enough to move convincingly on its own; that's essentially what 3d animation is. I can't imagine a 3d painting that can trick me into seeing a hole where there was none from any angle; certain viewing angles, as in the earlier perspective tricks, sure, but not from any. That would require a degree of apparent spatial warping I don't believe Figments capable of. A Glamour, fine, those trick you into seeing a hole because it can draw on your own ideas of what a hole looks like.

To put it another way, remember that you're creating a 3d object that tries to behave the way you want. You could create a cube (or a dragon) that looks 5 feet away from you when you're 5 feet, from either side. If it was a 5-foot cube, you and a partner could stand 15 feet away from each other and agree that it was 5 feet between you. If you tried to make it a 5-foot hole in the ground instead, the near edge would need to appear 10 feet away, because you're supposed to be looking at the far wall of the hole, not the near edge (trigonometry says it would be a little further, but whatever, not important to the point). In this case, you and your partner would see each other as 15 feet away if looking at each other, but 20 feet away when looking at the ground, from every possible orientation. I know it's possible from specific angles; I've seen such perspective tricks before. I disagree that it's possible to do so from every conceivable angle without actually creating a hole in the ground.

Exactly. What aleucard wants is a phantasm, not a figment like silent image. A phantasm could adjust itself to each mind and make it appear that there's a pit there even if it could only do perspective tricks. A figment can't.

[Kantolin]

I don't think I've ever played in a game where the DM would not allow you to use silent image to create a pit.

I mean, I'm also not convinced that the rules say you can't (So a 3d painting can 'magically' let you see things from every angle, but not magically let you see a pit from every angle?) but either way... even if you can't, I think that's more in line with 'monks aren't proficient with their unarmed strike'.

Now, I /have/ played with DMs that are firmly convinced that silent image and the like are spells that doesn't actually do anything as everyone and everything automatically ignores any effects that come from it, but that's a separate problem. Usually, mixing it with actually real things helps fix that, but sometimes it doesn't - like how for some DMs, planar binding is a spell that does either nothing or penalizes you every time you use it.

(This isn't to say that 'you can't make pits with illusions' is 'Obviously you hate illusions'. Just noting that the only time I've seen this not ruled or house ruled to work is in scenarios where no illusion works, so if that /is/ the rule then it's probably worth presuming that it is normally - or at least 'often' - house ruled away)

On that final note, though, It bugs me a bit when DMs dislike illusions (especially when they don't just outright say so!) because illusions tend to involve creativity, and thus this tends to lead to more flat 'I hit it for a thousand' types of builds since other things don't work. Oh well.

[Alent]

I don't think I've ever played in a game where the DM would not allow you to use silent image to create a pit.

I mean, I'm also not convinced that the rules say you can't (So a 3d painting can 'magically' let you see things from every angle, but not magically let you see a pit from every angle?) but either way... even if you can't, I think that's more in line with 'monks aren't proficient with their unarmed strike'.

The way my group has always played it, a silent image doesn't let you create "negative geometry". Therefore you could create a perspective dependent image of a pit on the floor like has already been described, or a 3d illusion of a pit but not subtract from the floor. (so you'd have to dig out the floor to see the illusion of the pit, at which point... you have a pit.)

[Sith_Happens]

(So a 3d painting can 'magically' let you see things from every angle, but not magically let you see a pit from every angle?)

It's the difference between making things and taking them away. Think of Silent Image like a 3D printer. I have yet to see a 3D printer that can dig a hole.

[Gildedragon]

The biggest problem with a silent image pit is that if one can do that it obviates invisibility, as you can just make an area of the room having nothing in it (same principle as making a bit of ground with nothing in it) making anyone and anything inside of it vanish.

[Kantolin]

It's the difference between making things and taking them away. Think of Silent Image like a 3D printer. I have yet to see a 3D printer that can dig a hole.

A 3d printer makes a physical object. An image spell makes magic. Silent image won't let you replace a heart, you can't peg someone in the head with it, it makes something that totally isn't real, and isn't bound by physics. A 3d print of a dragon cannot roar, flap its wings, and then commence tap dancing.

As a comparison... if I create an illusion of a cat, it is interfering with your seeing the ground. If I make an illusion of a hole, it is interfering with your seeing the ground. Requiring a skill check could be fine if I was informed in advance that this would be the case, but an illusionist who can't make a pit seems really weird to me.

(Which isn't the end of the world, mind you - I can accept people ruling it that way - it's just not how I've ever seen it ruled unless the DM in question was highly anti-illusion in general)

Is there some game balance issue I'm not seeing here? As I can accept 'you can't do that because it would be imbalanced to do so' - but extending a ledge and reducing a ledge sound like effects of the same magnitude, and both are stopped by a walking stick that's tapped in front of you.

Edit:

The biggest problem with a silent image pit is that if one can do that it obviates invisibility, as you can just make an area of the room having nothing in it, making anyone and anything inside of it vanish.

Of the myriad of uses for invisibility, 'we are standing still and making an ambush point' is probably the weakest thereof. :smallsmile: I mean, you could just make an illusion of a bush or table that covers your fighter friend anyway.

That's not the same as 'making a pit on the ground where there isn't one' anyway.

[dextercorvia]

The point is not to create a pit. You simply make the edge of the ravine appear to extend further out than it actually does. No one falls into an image of a pit. They can fall through an illusory ravinecliff, however.

1st level pathfinder campaign. Rather than Ghost Sound I used it in conjuction with Message. We spotted Orcs a distance away in the trees, trying to get the jump on us. 1st round I cast Message, and warned them this caravan was under My protection, without saying specifically what I was. 2nd round precombat, I cast a Silent Image of some big ugly thing in between us, and kept talking to them through the Message. They ran the other way so fast. I was a little bummed when the DM didn't give us XP for that, though.

[Gildedragon]

Of the myriad of uses for invisibility, 'we are standing still and making an ambush point' is probably the weakest thereof. :smallsmile: I mean, you could just make an illusion of a bush or table that covers your fighter friend anyway.
You make it bigger than the rogue and let them attack invisibly and move while readying an action to move the illusion with the rogue.

[georgie_leech]

The point is not to create a pit. You simply make the edge of the ravine appear to extend further out than it actually does. No one falls into an image of a pit. They can fall through an illusory ravine, however.


This. For the record I'm not anti-illusion, I'm against giving spells more powers than I think they should have. I think it aids creativity to have to work within constraints, rather than just going all out with low level spells. At one point my players had to hide a partially burnt building from the resident authority figures. The illusionist threw up a Silent image of the building undamaged, but since it was still smoldering, to make the smoke seem normal he added a chimney. That's the kind of clever play I can appreciate. (The ravine one would also work, in the extended edge form. Unless they have extensive experience with the terrain, I wouldn't even offer a will save for the first person to fall, and if the illusionist is concentrating enough to make the "edge" crumble, neither would the next guy.)

[Kantolin]

You make it bigger than the rogue and let them attack invisibly and move while readying an action to move the illusion with the rogue.

That is much more likely to be interacted with than if you'd actually used invisibility, and if they interact with it it's going to go away. This is why rain would make a horrible illusion.

(Also why can't the rogue just hide in an illusory cabinet? Same effect - and if you have it bang open then they'll still assume it's a real cabinet once the rogue jumps out!)

And yes - nobody could fall into an illusory pit since it's not real. This is part of why I don't think an illusory pit would be terribly potent either - it might make someone go around it, but that's about it and other things can prompt that. An illusion of 'the cliff extends further to the mountain' will just mean that nobody will get to the actual end. You're better off making a real pit and then an illusion of land over it.

Edit: Also, I'm not specifically stating that people here are horrible illusion haters or anything. :smallsmile: Just am pointing out that regardless of your opinion on whether you can or cannot make pits, there are a healthy chunk of people who rule (or house rule) that it's acceptable to do, so suggestions should involve that. Illusions do tend to be more DM-dependent than other things.

[bekeleven]

I'm amazed at how many people here are convinced Silent Image can be a first-level Invisibility Sphere. No, creating an image in 3D space does not do that. If you create an image of the background, the perspective will only work from 1 angle. If you create an image of nothing, then you've failed to cover yourself up.

[Jeff the Green]

Let's put it this way: is a pit an object, creature, or force? No, it's the absence of an object; you cannot disintegrate it, paint it, or animate it. Neither can you make an illusion of it with silent image.

Edit:
I can't believe I forgot this, but the designers obviously didn't think you could make a pit with silent image either. Why? Because there's a specific spell for that: illusory pit. It is, as I suggested was necessary, a glamer rather than a figment and quite limited: a 10' cube/level compared to silent image's 4 cubes plus 1/level, and it's a friggin sixth-level spell!

[Gildedragon]

Let's put it this way: is a pit an object, creature, or force? No, it's the absence of an object; you cannot disintegrate it, paint it, or animate it. Neither can you make an illusion of it with silent image.

Edit:
I can't believe I forgot this, but the designers obviously didn't think you could make a pit with silent image either. Why? Because there's a specific spell for that: illusory pit. It is, as I suggested was necessary, a glamer rather than a figment and quite limited: a 10' cube/level compared to silent image's 4 cubes plus 1/level, and it's a friggin sixth-level spell!

Though the 6th level one makes you think you are falling, so there's that.

I personally prefer the 4th level one from 3.0 which is virtually identical except it is a figment and just the image of a pit, and not the sensation of one as well

[Jeff the Green]

Though the 6th level one makes you think you are falling, so there's that.

I personally prefer the 4th level one from 3.0 which is virtually identical except it is a figment and just the image of a pit, and not the sensation of one as well

Yeah, I ignore that one. First because it's from Savage Species, but also because it violates the rules of illusions. Specifically, "Figments cannot make something seem to be something else." You're making a floor (or whatever) appear to be empty space, which isn't kosher.

[Kantolin]

I would like to again note that, regardless of one's opinion on whether you can or cannot make pits with an image, there are a healthy chunk of people who rule (or house rule) that it's acceptable to do, so suggestions should involve that. Illusions do tend to be more DM-dependent than other things.

The developers are not known for their infallibility, the spell does other things, and down that road lies 'you cannot yell someone awake because there's a spell that does' or other such nonsense.

Mechanically, all an illusory pit does is possibly get people to avoid it (And if they don't, the 'lack of falling' will auto disbelieve). So from a game balance perspective I'm not seeing the problem - you're much better off using a real pit and making an illusion to shield it than making an illusory pit. As really, I could accept 'for game balance purposes you can't do X', but in this case it's not even a big deal.

[nedz]

Silent Image does depend up the DM

A fake plank (or bridge) across the ravine is a simpler way of fooling someone.

Some I have done

Being charged by cavalry: A line of Pikemen. Now the riders probably won't believe it, but horses are not so smart.
A glowing image of a holy symbol in front of a Vampire: He failed his will save and withdrew.
A 45o mirror at a 90o bend in a corridor so that it appears to be straight: plan here is to waste ranged attacks until someone charges into the wall.

[Segev]

"I make an illusion of empty space where the party is standing" is, effectively, invisibility. Silent Image is not invisibility.

This is why making illusory pits doesn't work. You want illusory obstacles, instead.

You have to make illusions of things behind which others can hide, if you want Silent Image to help hide stuff.

As for more awesome uses, this one depends on the DM: If you make an illusion of a mirror, do you have to make up what it reflects, or will it show a true reflection?

[jedipotter]

As for more awesome uses, this one depends on the DM

This is so true.

A classic is to make bait. For example, a bag of gold coins. Now most folks will stop and pick up a bag of gold coins, no matter what else they are doing. After all most people will stop and pick up a bag of money. But some DM's will just be like ''they ignore it''. It's worse when it's bandits, and they are even more likely to go for easy money on the ground then fighting for money.

I always liked 'light shows'. Using silent image to make ''the door glows with red light'' or ''blue whisps of light whirl around the table'' or even ''white lightning flashes over his head''.

I don't let silent image make pits. That would be a [glamor]. You can't cast a silent image on a creature or object.

[Threadnaught]

I don't let silent image make pits. That would be a [glamor]. You can't cast a silent image on a creature or object.

Neither do I. :smallwink:

I would however, allow it to "make" pits. :smallamused:


You like to put Silent Image on a Door, an Object, yet you don't... What? I don't even...

[jedipotter]

Neither do I. :smallwink:

I would however, allow it to "make" pits. :smallamused:


You like to put Silent Image on a Door, an Object, yet you don't... What? I don't even...

Well, you'd make a ''glowing cloud near the door'' technically. Silent Image, as a [Figment] can't alter the appearance of a person, place or thing. That is what [glamors] do. As an illusion fan, I have like 100 homebrewed illusions like 'light glow', a 1st level [glamor] illusion that makes things glow. And 'create pit' as a [phantasm].

I'm also a fan of 'role play' illusions, like where the spell ''makes his eyes glow red'', and not boring, mechancial illusion like ''this spell gives you a +2 bonus to intimidate.'' I'll take an effect that gets a player to react for real over the more cold table of ''oh, your character is scared take a -2 and try and role play''.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Bigby's Expressive Single Digit.

[TypoNinja]

Bigby's Expressive Single Digit.

I believe you mean Bigby's Insulting Hand, good sir.

And yes I've done that. I forget exactly why, its faded behind the more important information. Somebody in a large keep had annoyed me for whatever reason so as we left I conjured up a 50 foot tall hand giving the old One Fingered Salute.

[Lonely Tylenol]

I believe you mean Bigby's Insulting Hand, good sir.

...No, I mean Expressive Single Digit (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0624.html).

[Erik Vale]

To regain spells, you need 8 hours peace, not sleep. [someone can grab an exact quote if they wish]
Silent image is a unlimited duration concentration spell. Depending on how much exertion your DM rules that to be, you could easily sleep completely hidden from most troubles by having your party set up a camp without fire, being quite, and having your wizard maintain a silent image of a bolder or other large inanimate object over the campsight. Being inside it, you all disbelieve and see through it, so you can even keep watch through it.
Oh, and with it being reducable to something your familiar concentrates on or a swift action means that there's not much for saying no, other than it making others feel useless... Oh, and removing fatigue/exhaution.

I've yet to have the opportunity to do it, but I plan to.

[TypoNinja]

...No, I mean Expressive Single Digit (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0624.html).

Ahhh we're referencing different bits of nerd humor. Along with Peter Anspach's list of Rules for an Evil Overlord there was a list of 95 Spells Never Meant to be Memorized. Either my google is weak or the list has since fallen off the internet, but number three is Bigby's Insulting Hand.

Other gems include, Cure Light Winds, Dimension Doorknob, Legend Lore Extended Dance Mix, and Shocking Gasp (usually follows Tenser's Shocking Suggestion).

[VoxRationis]

That won't actually work. You'd need a glamer to create the appearance of a pit; the best a figment could do is a 2D image of the ravine over solid ground, which isn't exactly convincing.

I'm sorry; where are you getting that? The d20 srd mentions nothing about such limitations while discussing the properties of figments and glamers. The former, apparently, simply creates a "false sensation," while the latter affects the appearance of an existing object. A "false sensation" can be made in a 3D fashion, or at least one which changes depending on perspective in a fashion approximating 3D.

Anyway, one I just thought of is in creating an image of a potion superimposed on a vial of poison standing on a table or something. The victim sees a potion, reaches out, finds a glass container where he expects one to be, and seizes it. Most people wouldn't read the label as they drink it, so unless they put it in a sack of potions for a while, they'd probably end up drinking the poison.

[Segev]

A "false sensation" can be made in a 3D fashion, or at least one which changes depending on perspective in a fashion approximating 3D.The problem is that it's hard to claim that you can create an illusion of something NOT being there with a figment. A glamor specifically changes something's appearance, which can include putting holes in it. A figment creates "a false sensation," but that doesn't override the specifics that Silent Image creates a visible illusion.

Again, if Silent Image could create a pit, it could also create an illusion of something "not being there," which is basically Invisibility.

Anyway, one I just thought of is in creating an image of a potion superimposed on a vial of poison standing on a table or something. The victim sees a potion, reaches out, finds a glass container where he expects one to be, and seizes it. Most people wouldn't read the label as they drink it, so unless they put it in a sack of potions for a while, they'd probably end up drinking the poison.[/QUOTE]

[Dalebert]

I've been inspired by this thread. My witch just got the fly hex. I'm going to tell my DM that I'm practicing using flight to appear to be walking on surfaces that aren't there. Combine an illusion of a bridge or a ledge with me running across it or just standing on it. Now it's a little more dynamic and still believable. You don't have to "fix" a bridge while no one is looking. You can "summon" a bridge, maybe make it look like a wall of stone spell, and then run across it to get away from the baddies. :smallbiggrin:

Side note: Cloak of the Hedge Mage (Illusion) is not a bad item. Let's you cast ghost sound at will and silent image once a day and without verbal components in case you need some discretion, e.g. you're hiding and need to create a distraction.

[Seharvepernfan]

You can make writing appear on a wall, or change writing on a wall that is already there.

You can make a marker or signal that people can see from far away (like a tall bright red pillar).

When fleeing opponents, you can turn a corner from them and hide, then quickly cast the spell to make a closed door appear on a nearby wall, then have it "disappear" when your opponents get near, so they think you went through the door that just disappeared.

Similarly, you could make an image of yourself that disappears, either by walking into a wall or by "casting a spell" then disappearing.