View Full Version : Is this paladin mount too good?

2007-02-21, 07:54 PM
I decided that, in my campaign, my NPC character (I can't resist playing, even when I DM) character will take 12 levels of Fighter befor becoming a Pally. This means that I would be level 17 when I get my mount. I was wondering if an Adult Gold Dragon would be too powerful as a mount. I chose it because it was CR-appropriate for the Paladin, being only CR 16. Would it work out in the end?

Bears With Lasers
2007-02-21, 07:58 PM
Yes, that's way too powerful. It's also show-stealing: riding around on gold freakin' dragons is exactly the kind of thing DM PCs should NOT do.

Your fighter levels don't contribute to your paladin mount; making your mount better is a paladin class feature. If you want a non-warhorse mount, check in the DMG; there are options for other mounts (but they reduce your effective paladin level for mount bonuses).

2007-02-21, 07:59 PM
OK. I guess I am stuck with a warhorse. Thanks for answering my question.

Why I am not looking in my DM's guide? I just got over a cold.

2007-02-21, 08:04 PM
Yeah, that's ridiculously, insanely overpowered. If you ever have the urge to do that with one of your characters when you're DMing again then immediately remove yourself from the game : P

An Adult gold is CR 16! Why should a level 17 character have access to it?!

2007-02-21, 08:06 PM
There are rules for special mounts in the DMG; there are also rules for special mount / cohorts (from the Leadership feat; the special mount abilities increase the cohort's ECL by +2 at least). There are also rules in the Draconomicon for dragon cohorts and mounts, and if you look at them, you can easily see that an adult gold dragon is far, far, far, far, far too powerful. (It's way too powerful to be a cohort, even.)

I think you need to be around level 17 with all the appropriate feats to even get a Large good-aligned dragon as a cohort; it's easier for Small characters who just need a Medium dragon.

2007-02-21, 09:27 PM
I appreciate using Dire Lions as mounts, since I like more combat independent mounts. But you can also have Griphons, Unicorns (if you are playing a female Paladin), Pegasi, Dire wolfs etc... The problem is that they need specifc lvls to be availble (ex: Only lvl 8 Paladins can have a Dire Lion Mount) and they wont have many special habilities...

The only way to have a Dragon as Mount is beeing a 17th lvl Paladin and taking the Leadership feat and naming the Dragon your cohort. Go check on Defenders of faith. But I believe that having a dragon as a cohort is way too much... They are far more powerful than your character, the dragon will eventually steal all the attenction, and the PCs will become secondary in the campaing...

Just remember that the last word about this comes from the DMs Mouth.

2007-02-21, 09:44 PM
LA+HD of adult gold dragon?

Dragon, ancient silver Lawful good 42nd for leadership.

34 HD, so theroetical +8.

Gold dragon adult.
Adult 23d12+115 (264) 23 HD. +6? ECL 29 for leadership. No. No dragons. Not until very, very, very high leadership levels, unless you take draconic cohort and improved cohort.

Then only level 27 0.o

2007-02-21, 09:46 PM
The DM in my 14th level campaign just awarded the paladin a young gold dragon mount. I'll definitely be watching for play balance issues.

2007-02-21, 09:50 PM
What!? At level 14, a gold dragon CHARACTER is barely very young!

Young is ECL 19!

2007-02-21, 09:51 PM
There is a diference between a Young and an Adult Dragon...

Don't worry till it become Young Adult... When he do so, watch your back... This is generaly when the "Power Corrupts" thing hits the Paladin's head.

2007-02-21, 09:55 PM
Gkk... ECL 28... Frightening prescence...

2007-02-22, 12:43 AM
As a Pally player my self i ahve often been tempted to make my mount a real cheap, powerhouse, fighting type (like me, lol) but really if it dishes out more meele damage then you, then who is riding who?

Also, i understand that there are rules for having a dragon mount but in my campaigns we decided to ban them outright (along with the monks, grrrrr). the sheer unlikelyhood of a dragon (a very intelligent creature) subordinating itself to a paladin, who in the end are not all that wise and will often not truly appreciate the dragon for its advice and more for the number of dice it rolls when it attacks. this ban came after a player took the feat just for a dragon to deal damage, he never wanted to name it, or even gave a crap what alignment it was.

Pally mounts are can be cheap, but its far better to add them as part of the experience of roleplaying a paladin, than to use them to rack up kills in the dungeon

2007-02-22, 08:17 AM
"Who is riding who," indeed. Actually, the dragon is allowing you to hang to its back while it fights. Obviously. It's older, bigger, stronger, and probably smarter than the rider.

Anyway, looking at the Draconomicon (pages 138 and 139 specifically), a paladin can have a dragon as a special mount by taking the Dragon Steed feat. At 20th level (Paladin 20, or Paladin X/Cavalier Y, or any other combination that gives you 20 levels in classes with the Special Mount ability), a paladin can get a Young Gold Dragon (which can carry a Medium rider).

If you get it as a Cohort with Leadership (using the Dragon Cohort feat), it's ECL is 20-3, so you can get it at level 19.

You can get a very young gold dragon (also Large) at level 16 as a special mount, or at level 15 as a Cohort (ECL 16-3). This way you could actually combine the special mount and cohort in the one dragon, although you'd have to be level 17 (ECL 16 - 3 + 2 = 15).

If you follow these guidelines, there'll probably be no balance problems. At those levels, those dragons won't be so powerful as to have a really great effect on anything.

(I do dread my party's Paladin/Cavalier's getting a gold dragon mount, though; flying charges with 400-foot range...)

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-02-22, 01:51 PM
Gold dragon? Jesus.

In my gestalt game, I let my half-dragon player pick up a fang dragon as a mount (non-paladin), provided that it's HD was always 4 lower then him. It has never been useful in a fight yet as he can't even ride it until he nears level 20. Otherwise it's just too good.

Besides, powerful/cool NPC's should only be used by the DM if they either don't disrupt the game's flow or the PC's end up fighting them. So I really have no objections to including a paladin with a gold dragon mount if he was there to inevitably become a boss fight.

2007-02-22, 10:59 PM
Why a Gold Dragon would be at a Paladin's Service? Because the Paladin is a Pure Hearted Bastion of light that uses up all of his strenght to make the world a better place. It is a matter of adimiration. The dragon likes the pure hearted mortals. A such tiny beaing trying to do a greater good must be adimirable in the eyes of a young dragon.

This is the ONLY reason. Otherwise, the Dragon has much more potencial than the paladin itself. Period.

2007-02-22, 11:04 PM
I'm a bastard and didn't bother to even read what you wrote. However, i read the title of the post and the answer is "Yes, or you wouldn't be asking, you tard."