How far can training take a character?

[Darkweave31]

So if you were at the head of a military training camp tasked with turning rabble into hardened soldiers, how many levels could the NPC reasonably attain through a training regiment.

There's the standard exercise, discipline, and the occasional sparring partner which cold reasonably give them a single level in warrior, but what about when you add magic into the equation? What if illusions are used to simulate various battlefield conditions and larger engagements? What if summoned or bound creatures were used to train the soldiers against far stronger foes?

Could this get them up to level 3? Possibly more? Or is there something about real battlefield experience that simply can't be simulated by magic? I feel like utilizing magic to enhance training should garner some benefit beyond basic training. Any thoughts?

[SliceandDiceKid]

If you want to simulate REAL combat, you must account for REAL casualties. The fewer friendly deaths, the less XP they would gain. (Ex:If they're killing weaker things that pose little risk, they wouldn't really learn what it's like to fight on against all odds, while injured)

[Darkweave31]

If you want to simulate REAL combat, you must account for REAL casualties. The fewer friendly deaths, the less XP they would gain. (Ex:If they're killing weaker things that pose little risk, they wouldn't really learn what it's like to fight on against all odds, while injured)

What about combat situations using non-lethal weapons? Blunt arrows, truncheons, etc. They would still have to fight and have the chance of "dying" but there wouldn't be actual casualties. (I'm imagining 2 separate teams fighting for domination over a mirage arcana to simulate the streets of an enemy city using blunt arrows and truncheons to attempt to incapacitate their opponents)... This has precedent in exp granted for incapacitating opponents in an adventuring setting.

[NichG]

Actually, with healing magic the way it is, you could in principle do training exercises where you give them a serious stab wound, taking them down to a fraction of their hitpoints or even to 0hp, and make them fight while injured to experience it. Then you can heal them up and have them fully recovered in time for dinner. So if you really wanted to give them that experience, you could, though I'd expect you'd take losses not from death but from desertion after pulling a stunt like that.

[DeltaEmil]

One could perhaps use the "Gaining Class Benefits" optional rule from the Dungeon Master's Guide 1 on page 198.

So if a level 2+ fighter tries to turn 1 HD commoners into fighters (by giving them fighter levels, or replacing a commoner level with the retraining rules form DMG 2 with a fighter level), it would take 1 week and 1000 gold to finish the commoner's training into a lean mean fighting machine (aka commoner 1 / fighter 1 or just fighter 1).

[SliceandDiceKid]

What about combat situations using non-lethal weapons? Blunt arrows, truncheons, etc. They would still have to fight and have the chance of "dying" but there wouldn't be actual casualties. (I'm imagining 2 separate teams fighting for domination over a mirage arcana to simulate the streets of an enemy city using blunt arrows and truncheons to attempt to incapacitate their opponents)... This has precedent in exp granted for incapacitating opponents in an adventuring setting.

If you want to justify it that way, give whoever is training them xp for accomplishing a goal. I think the idea is ridiculous.

You should be able to train them, but not to the extent you are grasping justification for.

[Darkweave31]

One could perhaps use the "Gaining Class Benefits" optional rule from the Dungeon Master's Guide 1 on page 198.

So if a level 2+ fighter tries to turn 1 HD commoners into fighters (by giving them fighter levels, or replacing a commoner level with the retraining rules form DMG 2 with a fighter level), it would take 1 week and 1000 gold to finish the commoner's training into a lean mean fighting machine (aka commoner 1 / fighter 1 or just fighter 1).

That's a great find, thanks. Seems to be a good quantification for training costs.

[Trasilor]

So if you were at the head of a military training camp tasked with turning rabble into hardened soldiers, how many levels could the NPC reasonably attain through a training regiment.

There's the standard exercise, discipline, and the occasional sparring partner which cold reasonably give them a single level in warrior, but what about when you add magic into the equation? What if illusions are used to simulate various battlefield conditions and larger engagements? What if summoned or bound creatures were used to train the soldiers against far stronger foes?

Could this get them up to level 3? Possibly more? Or is there something about real battlefield experience that simply can't be simulated by magic? I feel like utilizing magic to enhance training should garner some benefit beyond basic training. Any thoughts?

Actually this could happen quite quickly.

The amount of XP garnered through defeating an opponent of equal level as you gains quite a bit. At first level, a first level warrior vs. a first level warrior would garner 300 XP per fight. Four fights later and they are level 2. Three fights later (lvl 2 v lvl 2) and they are Level 3.

You could create squads of 4 and have them fight each other. They use blunted weapons that deal non-lethal damage. Winners would get full XP losers get half. With most combat lasting less than 30 seconds, you could get in dozens or hundreds of fights per day.

Heal combatants between fights.

Offer rewards to the winners (extra food, extra income etc) to motivate them (and justify the Risk/Reward)

At the end of a couple of days combatants should easily be level 3.

As a DM I wouldn't allow this type of training to get the NPCs higher than level 3, unless they fight other types of creatures/combatants.


If you want to simulate REAL combat, you must account for REAL casualties. The fewer friendly deaths, the less XP they would gain. (Ex:If they're killing weaker things that pose little risk, they wouldn't really learn what it's like to fight on against all odds, while injured)

So if a PC is in a fist fight (i.e. a level 1 Bar fight) they don't get any XP for it because there was no 'real' threat? Or the PC who uses diplomacy to convince the Queen to send troops get no XP because their was no 'real' threat (of death)?

Non-lethal combat can still have problems when the combatants 'die'. For instance, if a group/person fails to win any mock combats - they get removed from the program.