Can you make a skll monkey cleric or wizard in a core only game?

[DarkSonic1337]

Exactly what the title says.

I'll be partying around with a Druid, a Sorcerer, and a Paladin and the DM says that we could kind of use a skill monkey....but I really detest Rogues and I don't want to be the same class as someone else in the group, leaving Cleric and Wizard as my skill guy choices.

But in a core only game I won't have access to things like Cloistered Cleric for the skill points, or Collegiate Wizard for the extra spells per level up to grab a bunch of skill boosting spells.

Can either of these classes work? Also, a very important thing to keep in mind is that this DM goes WAAAAAAAAAAY under WBL. He doesn't really adjust for low loot monsters and when he sends humanoid opponents they're severely underequiped for their levels so we don't get much loot there either (easier fights I guess...until we fight monsters again). So I think a Cleric would be the better choice since buying scrolls for a Wizard would be kinda tough.

No Evil Characters.


Builds from 1-10ish with feats, domains and some key spells to prepare every day would be greatly appreciated.

[Rebel7284]

Rogue 1/Wizard X. Maybe add loremaster.

Edit: the kobold domain for clerics is available here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a is web content perhaps allowed?

[infomatic]

What level to start at?

Rog/Wiz/Loremaster certainly works. Pump intelligence, buy what you need cross-class.

If you're starting at mid-to-high-level, Rog3/Wiz5/Arcane Trickster10/Wiz2 is fine. Your slower progression isn't as big a deal since you've got a pure caster in the group anyhow.

Rog1/Wizard5, grabbing PBS/Precise Shot/Improved Initiative. They are, however, pretty lousy at levels 7-10, when you've halted wizard progression and are working on the second sneak-attack die.

Cleric is problematic unless you've got killer stats.

[DMVerdandi]

Exactly what the title says.

I'll be partying around with a Druid, a Sorcerer, and a Paladin and the DM says that we could kind of use a skill monkey....but I really detest Rogues and I don't want to be the same class as someone else in the group, leaving Cleric and Wizard as my skill guy choices.

But in a core only game I won't have access to things like Cloistered Cleric for the skill points, or Collegiate Wizard for the extra spells per level up to grab a bunch of skill boosting spells.

Can either of these classes work? Also, a very important thing to keep in mind is that this DM goes WAAAAAAAAAAY under WBL. He doesn't really adjust for low loot monsters and when he sends humanoid opponents they're severely underequiped for their levels so we don't get much loot there either (easier fights I guess...until we fight monsters again). So I think a Cleric would be the better choice since buying scrolls for a Wizard would be kinda tough.

No Evil Characters.


Builds from 1-10ish with feats, domains and some key spells to prepare every day would be greatly appreciated.
Yes.
See skills, match appropriate spells. Active skills only (If the dm throws a curveball and requires some high level check on a skill no one has, or was told to think about, he blows. )

Balance/fly
Bluff/Illusion spells (enchantment can be resisted too strongly)
Climb/fly
Decipher script/read all languages
Diplomacy/Illusion spells
Disable Device/Knock
Disguise/Illusion spells
Escape artist/ Still Spell teleport
Gather information/Divination spells
Intimidation/ Illusion spells
Jump/ Fly
Spot-Listen/Clairaudience-clairvoiance
Move silently/ fly
Open lock/Knock

Most skills are completely invalidated by fly. That is one reason that magic is just insanely good.
You take fly out of a game, for REAL? suddenly skills become a lot more important.
The charisma ones can be done with simple illusions, and divination takes care of many int and wis skills.
Knowledge skills are important to keep maxed out though.


Also prepare rope trick EVERY DAY OF YOUR LIFE. You can buy wands of most of these spells, and be fine, or better yet, simply make them yourself. Don't let that DM rule you... Your a wizard.

[Telonius]

Cleric should be able to get by pretty well. It's a natural trapfinder: summon monster spells, Thaumaturgist, Cure spells for your Barbarian. :smallwink: Cleric of Olidammara, Trickery domain, and you're set for social skills.

[Gildedragon]

not what you asked, but Bard is a very viable skill-monkey with a number of skill-boosting spells.

but no? Let's see what can be done with cleric:
Trickery and Knowledge domains, aiming for loremaster (earliest entry being level 8)
you need 4 feats, so you need human... or flaws (which are a no go)
still, level 1 getting skill focus (kn: religion?) and silent spell
level 3: craft wondrous item
level 6: any metamagic or crafting feat you like

Wis > Int > Con > Dex > Str > Cha

You aren't turning any undead, but...

Wizard or Bard are probably your best choices.

[dextercorvia]

Usually when a DM says skill-monkey, though they mean trap monkey. It is usually not necessary that one person in the party be able to tumble really well, or swim really well. So, if you can beat traps without trapfinding, you can do the job the DM is expecting. He may not like it, though. The other thing that skillsy players usually cover is spot/listen. Clerics can do that fairly well without having them as class skills because of prioritizing wisdom.

[Grayson01]

Um have you thought about Bard? Skill Monkey, Arcane Casting, Not a Rouge, can also aid and Buff the party with the best of them.

[nedz]

Beguiler sounds like what you want — unfortunately it's in PH2 :smallsigh:

Otherwise you have to dip Rogue for Trapfinding, though if it's just skills you want then Ranger might work for you ?
Ranger / Cleric perhaps ?

[zyggythorn]

Or ranger? Also a skill monkey, useful spells that are mostly spontaneous, free feats, etc etc and good whenever you run into something with SR!

Probably want a bow ranger for your current load out so stat importance goes something like
Dex> Wis>Int>Con>Str>Cha

[Eldariel]

Honestly, the only ways to get Trapfinding in Core are Rogue or Find Traps, and the latter doesn't allow you to disable them (but you can dispel magical ones and avoid most mundane ones). As such, Rogue 1/Wizard is probably the easiest as Wizard is Int-based anyways and thus you'll get insanely good at it. It does, however, suffer of the Rogue-level not really meshing that well with the Wizard-shell overall. From level 1 tho, that or hirelings are the only real options. Cleric can't get a sufficient Find Traps access until later and Wand of Find Traps with UMD (for Loremasters and Bards) needs to wait even longer. Trapfinding with Summons is hugely wasteful, slow, inefficient and dangerous (traps exist you don't want to trigger; everything from alarms to gates) so I suggest against having that as your only option.

Other skills tho, spells allow you to fake a bit (Charms, Flight, Teleports, Prying Eyes, etc. cover for some things) and e.g. Wizard/Loremaster has an okay skill list and enough Int to get decent skillpoints in spite of the horribly low /level points of the class. Bard obviously gets more, but worse spells. You could try and buy animals to shore up your weaknesses. Familiar also helps a lot in that regard which points towards Wizard (many familiars have good base spot, hide, etc.). Druid isn't horrible either; indeed, aside from Trapfinding, Druid can provide just about everything and can afford quite high Int too since he doesn't really need physicals due to Wildshape lasting all day starting from level 7.


In general, you can make it work with a bit of work with either Rogue 1/Wizard or Bard, or with a bit more work with a Druid or a Wizard/Loremaster. You certainly won't be a master of all trades but you can perform adequately. Druid might almost be my first inclination, but since you don't wanna share a class and that Druid should handle some skill stuff anyways, Wizard/Loremaster ought to work okay. Just make the best out of your spells, skill list and familiar and you'll be decently well off. Rest of the party has to chime in for some skills tho.

[Jack_Simth]

Rogue-1/Wizard-5/Assasin-1/Arcane Trickster-10/Loremaster-4? You lose out on two caster levels (one full spell level), but you get most of the skillmonkey items covered without too much hassle. Human, prioritize Int, and you're good (well, Evil....).