PDA

View Full Version : the Nature of Magic



alchemy.freak
2007-02-21, 08:36 PM
I just wanted to hear some opinions on the nature of magic, not just in D&D but any game that you play. this is more of a point of interest with me, i find interesting how people who started playing at the same time in the same group can have totally different opinions on this idea. Any thoughts?

RandomNPC
2007-02-21, 08:55 PM
its a thing anyone can learn, by multiple means. i like games with open abilities like (first thing that comes to mind) ultima online, where you can pick it up and learn it, or just ignore it. im also a fan of games where the crazy strong fighter learns to cast spells to boost weapons and armor, like a temporary shocking quality. but full casters are more versitile.

i guess if i made my own system it wouldnt be level based, it would be point based, so the angry barbarian type can learn to toss a ball of fire to compliment his charge, but a mage could toss a ball of fire that expands, sits around for two rounds, and deals more dammage.

Thomas
2007-02-21, 09:02 PM
"Magic" in Glorantha is just a game-mechanics term, really. The spells or feats and so on are just things some people can do or learn to do. Knowing the Mile Javelin Throw feat isn't that different, at a base level, from knowing how to throw a javelin 30 yards - it's just a lot more impressive.

(Of course you've got all sorts of specifics of magic - like spirits - but those are different ways of learning to do things.)

Neek
2007-02-21, 09:04 PM
I'm in the process of overhauling the existing magic system for one of my campaign ideas, a steam-opera idea. More or less, I'm making the system truly open-ended. More or less, I want an elemental-base. The world contains five races, and five elements (stemmed from the Chinese elemental system).

Each element provides its own basis for magic. A caster of one element is limited to a certain number of effects per day, which can do so many things per day. I.e., a level 1 caster is limited to a certain number of dice of damage per day for their effect, and can only limit their damage to so many HD per day. I'll have to clean that example up, but it open ends it. (Each race has a racial bonus to the DC of certain effects, encouraging races to focus on one Element than the other).

I found the d20 Magic system to be pretty "Drag and drop" that doesn't allow much varying elbow room with zero-basis in the planar system, or the divinities, or whatnot.

TimeWizard
2007-02-21, 10:20 PM
I'm in the process of overhauling the existing magic system for one of my campaign ideas, a steam-opera idea. More or less, I'm making the system truly open-ended. More or less, I want an elemental-base. The world contains five races, and five elements (stemmed from the Chinese elemental system).

So you're in favor of dropping the ever-popular air for wood? Gutsy.

TheOOB
2007-02-21, 10:57 PM
In a non-D&D related world I am creating magic is quiet simply the the ambiant life energy generated by all living things. While virtually all humans generate this energy, very few have the capacity to acually consiously manipulate their energy to create a desired effect.

Further, the vast majority of people who have this magical "spark" are only capable of manifesting their abilities in one of three ways, via the mind(akin to arcane magic, using crytpic glyphs and incantations), via the body(think adepts from shadowrun or martial adepts from ToB), or via the spirit(sorta similar to divine magic, but more chaotic in nature). The occasional "Archmage" can get past the limitations of the three forms of magic and channel their energy in it's primal forms.

If your not born with the magical "spark" within you, you will never be able to control the magical power your body generats, but there is always ways for nonmagical forces to manipulate external magical energy such as runecasting(channeling stored energy from preprepared items), necromancy(using the residual energy of the dead to power spells), geomancy(channeling the earths latent energy), and void magic(leeching magic from others to power yourself).

I'm not sure how I'd represent this system in game terms, but it makes for some interesting stories.

Baron Corm
2007-02-21, 11:52 PM
magic is something that defies the laws of nature as we know them. i guess that's it then. but they would be more theories of nature then, with science simply having it all wrong. in a world where magic exists, i guess it's just magical relative to our world... in a magical world, they're natural laws. when i mix oil and water they separate, when a DnD wizard mixes bat guano and sulfur and says the right thing he makes a fireball. magic to us, not to him.

i guess it's sort of strange; if something magical happened, it would no longer be magical, it would be a factual thing that could happen.

magic being the ambient life energy or whatever is a setting-specific thing... you're just naming the life energy magic instead of life energy. you could call it play-doh if you wanted.

did that answer the question at all? in case you didn't notice i was thinking about that recently as well.

TheOOB
2007-02-22, 12:09 AM
Well, the definition of magic differs greatly upon the campaign setting. For example in standard D&D a good working definition could be that it's energy the originates from a place other then the prime material plane.

In shadowrun, the definition (well the hermetic one at least) is magic(mana) is the stuff of the astral plane that can be shaped and impressed at will by the awakened.

alchemy.freak
2007-02-22, 12:23 AM
In a non-D&D related world I am creating magic is quiet simply the the ambiant life energy generated by all living things. While virtually all humans generate this energy, very few have the capacity to acually consiously manipulate their energy to create a desired effect.


That is scary, i actually explained magic to one of my players as something just like that.

TheOOB
2007-02-22, 12:46 AM
Well, that basic definition is very similar to the concept of ki or chi, living beings producing supernatural energy, with some able to even harness it for their own uses is not a new concept.

Bouldering Jove
2007-02-22, 01:21 AM
Magic is just physics. Awesome physics.

Artemician
2007-02-22, 03:24 AM
In my homebrew, Magic is the force that drives the Universe, TOE or GUT style. Magic powers everything as we know it, from rocks to life. A Mage is one who has learned to harness the power of the Universe through (strangely) making language, while a cleric is one who has been vested great power by his god. Psionicists on the other hand... lets just say that they own, okay?

The Precise nature of Gods is something that is not known, while as to why making hand signals and speaking Yiddish grants you the ability to do things in a seemingly fixed fashion, that's.. well to be precise my imagination ran out at this point.

Wippit Guud
2007-02-22, 03:56 AM
I like the nature of magic in Xanth-series novels by Piers Anthony. Magic is the lifeforce of a huge demon which was imprisioned deep underground. That lifeforce has a different effect on each being in Xanth - in humans, it manifested by everyone having a unique magic talent, for example. When the demon was freed, all magic left.

Course, he came back, but it's still a cool concept for the source of magic in a world. Granted, Dragonlance seems to have taken that one step further...

oriong
2007-02-22, 04:16 AM
Honestly I've played far, far too many systems and read too many fantasy novels for me to have one solid concept of the nature of magic. I pretty much adopt it on an 'as needs' basis. For D+D I typically go the faerunean weave explanation as magical energy as a vast web of energy fueled by 'runoff' from living beings, but is still ultimately an external energy sourch that is manipulated by a mages spells.

Some of my favorites:

*the Mage (awakening) system: there isn't anything that isn't magic, reality is simply a consensus created by the conciousness of all other creatures. 'Magic' is simply having the knowledge, confidence and willpower to force your own personal view of reality over the local consensus.

*Sympathetic magic akin to GURPS Cabal where magic is basically the manipulation of connections between objects, ideas, energies and feelings rather simply a force.

*the Exalted 'magic' system which isn't too different from the Mage one. Everything is composed of 'essence' both matter and energy. The Exalted are able to gather and store raw essence and then use it for their own abilities, essentially modifying the building blocks of reality in various ways.

Wippit Guud
2007-02-22, 04:24 AM
*the Mage (awakening) system: there isn't anything that isn't magic, reality is simply a consensus created by the conciousness of all other creatures. 'Magic' is simply having the knowledge, confidence and willpower to force your own personal view of reality over the local consensus.

I love magic in Mage. As long as it doesn't look like magic, then everything is ok. If it looks like magic and can't be explained, reality fights back... with all sort of fun side effects.

note: never become magnetized in a kitchen...

Matthew
2007-02-22, 02:04 PM
For D&D, I usually consider Magic to be a supernatural force of infinite power that is the universal source for both Divine and Arcane magic, which are just different methods of accessing that force. Spell Casters can learn how to access this force, but there are limits to what they can do with it, depending on innate talent, training and experience.

Fax Celestis
2007-02-22, 02:12 PM
Magic is a way to tap into the innate nature of all things, albeit with different methods.

Divine magic patrons the deities for their aid in manipulating magic. Arcane magic subverts natural magic to it's will, sometimes violently, and is seen as crude by many. Shadowcasting taps into the plane of shadow; truename magic manipulates the names of magic.

Spirit magic (which I am developing) patronizes the spirits of all things for their aid in bending magical energies.

In short: magic is inherent in all things; the different breeds of magic merely manipulate it differently.

DomarSaul
2007-02-22, 04:48 PM
I like a certain otherness about magic, something alien and dangerous. This is simply because, for me, magic is something transcendent, unexplained, unbelievable and unpredictable. That's why magic and fantasy as a genre appeal to me so much, I think - that transcendent element. I think I'd feel somewhat awkward in the role of an entity that was really supernatural, simply because I feel inadequate to do justice to somehting which such a vastly different nature.

As a result, I like the idea of magic-users tapping into something vast and foreign, something that is beyond and distinct from the physical universe. The idea of magic as invoking the power of a god or spirit is very attractive, and feels right to me in a historical sense, just because of my background of Catholic tradition and a smattering of knowledge from classes in African and Caribbean religions. There should be something a little frightening, a little awesome to it all. Trouble is, the players cannot be expected to stay in awe of something they have marked off in boxes in their character sheets, something they calculate and crunch numbers for.

I suppose in contrast to some other views, I prefer that magic not be inherent in all things, but a notable and wonderous exception to the rule. Since I prefer to think of all spellcasting as tapping into an outside force, I conceptualize divine and arcane as being two different methods or schools to do the very same thing. I love the mechanics of psionics, but I'm not that keen on the fact that it comes from within.