Zen Archer for Mummy's Mask

[killem2]

Hey Playground.

I put this on the paizo forums, Now I'm looking for some suggestions (has to be strict pathfinder, first party material) on my level 1 monk.

So I'm pretty much finished with my Zen Archer and just wanted some over all thoughts about it on a couple fronts.


How my first level choices look overall.

How I can better myself against the undead.


Starting Level: 1

Ability Scores: (in common order str, dex, con, int, wis, cha) (24d6 dice pool with 4d6 assigned to each roll, we rerolled ones)

16-19-16-14-19-10

Race: Vanara

Alignment: L/N (at least until I feel Zen Archer no longer aids me in my task and I may start to lean more N/G)

Feats: Perfect Strike (B), Precise Shot, and (still need a third one, i gave back tree hanger)

Traits + Drawbacks:

- Rich Parents Start with 900gp
- Doubt: You lack confidence in your abilities or confidence in the universe at large. Whenever you fail a skill or ability check, you take a —4 penalty on that type of skill or ability check for the next hour.

Trap Finder: (+1 to disable device, makes it class skill, and I can disable traps like a rogue)

Wisdom in the Flesh (Irori) [Disable Device]: Your hours of meditation on inner perfection and the nature of strength and speed allow you to focus your thoughts to achieve things your body might not normally be able to do on its own. Select any Strength-, Constitution-, or Dexterity-based skill. You may make checks with that skill using your Wisdom modifier instead of the skill's normal ability score. That skill is always a class skill for you.

Languages: common, vanaran, goblin, sylvan

Items: 3x Sacks and a backpack masterwork

Sack 1 hold my hammock, Spare quiver of arrows, the other two spare sacks, hooded lantern, 2x pints of oil, 6 days of trail rations.

Masterwork backpack : in this is my canteen with water, it holds my 10ft pole strapped to it, master work thieves tools, chalk x10, flint+steel, 1x torch.

Weapons: None Yet, I used to have a temple sword and MW composite long blow with a +3 str adjustment but now I have that money available.

Clothes

Monk outfit, nothing else.
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Now, as far as the undead aspect, GM has shown us the Player's Guide for this setting and after reading it screams Undead.

(I don't want to know if this is true or not)

Since we are supposed to be locals, I think it is a fair assumption to make. Now, typically archers or rather piecing weapons, take the biggest hit in damage against most undead.

If I wanted to be able to excel at dealing with Undead but not let it consume my characters every waking moment, what would you suggest?

[grarrrg]

Starting Level: 1

Ability Scores: (in common order str, dex, con, int, wis, cha) (24d6 dice pool with 4d6 assigned to each roll, we rerolled ones)

16-19-16-14-19-10

Strongly consider if you want to switch your DEX score with STR or CON.
Granted, a level 1 Zen Archer start can be rough, as WIS-to-hit doesn't happen until level 3, but having a 16 DEX for 2 levels is still pretty solid, and a higher STR will help with Damage (composite bows), or a higher CON will help with general survivability.

Since we are supposed to be locals, I think it is a fair assumption to make. Now, typically archers or rather piecing weapons, take the biggest hit in damage against most undead.

If I wanted to be able to excel at dealing with Undead but not let it consume my characters every waking moment, what would you suggest?

Blunt Arrows (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/ammunition/ammunition-bow-arrow-blunt) are a thing, and only cost 2gp for 20 (normal arrows are 1gp for 20).

[killem2]

I did consider switching it but if I did, I'd be no better off. I only have a 19 dex and 19 wisdom from the race :(.


I will check on those blunt arrows too.

[Sayt]

Consider getting reinforced arrows, just for not having to bother checking if they break.

As fir your feat, I'd pick up Point-blank shot, as it's a pre-req for pretty much everything. Rapid Shot does nothing for you as you can't flurry with it, so I'd grab Deadly Aim. I'd maybe take PBS as your Monk 2 bonus feat and Deadly Aim as your lvl 1 feat.

[Snowbluff]

Pick up some monk levels, but then go into cleric.

Be a samsaran.

Named Bullet (Undead) + Abundant Ammunition + Saddle Surge = you murder everything. Needs some Litany of Righteousness if you're grabbing a Good Aura.

[deuxhero]

Doubt+rich parents is a very temporary boost for a major penalty forever. Can't recommend it (there are much less painful drawbacks like naive, a minor penalty against a fighting style that carrys penalties for its user or Dependent, which not a problem if you don't make diplomacy checks. Depend on what the GM lets aid another be used and the party, taking Avaric as "no aid another" or paranoid could be fine too). If you are starting to start with a masterwork composite longbow, I can't recommend that either, as published modules tend to be loot based with little crafting down time.

Craft your bow (actually, as much of your gear as you can) in your backstory instead. With 14 int, you automatically beat the DC12 for a longbow, making it cost 30 GP (or 27.5 if you sell the tools afterwords) which is within your starting gold and time is no object for backstory crafting.

[killem2]

Doubt+rich parents is a very temporary boost for a major penalty forever. Can't recommend it (there are much less painful drawbacks like naive, a minor penalty against a fighting style that carrys penalties for its user or Dependent, which not a problem if you don't make diplomacy checks. Depend on what the GM lets aid another be used and the party, taking Avaric as "no aid another" or paranoid could be fine too). If you are starting to start with a masterwork composite longbow, I can't recommend that either, as published modules tend to be loot based with little crafting down time.

Craft your bow (actually, as much of your gear as you can) in your backstory instead. With 14 int, you automatically beat the DC12 for a longbow, making it cost 30 GP (or 27.5 if you sell the tools afterwords) which is within your starting gold and time is no object for backstory crafting.

Interesting. I can check into that. But what about other supplies?

I suppose I can try to see about starting together with others and use their money for supplies. But a monk has pitifully low starting cash.

[13ones]

You want to have the edge against undead while still being able to do other things? May I suggest this fantastic little idea?

Zen Archer/3 Inquisitor/17

You lose no bab because they are both 3/4 classes. You gain Wis to hit at level three, which is also the primary casting of Inquisitors. You have full access to a short divine list of unique spells. You are perfectly suited to not only deal with Undead but Evil in general. Bane arrows, team work feats, all of it is really solid and because you still have monk levels and a ki pool based of Wis you can still spend ki points to get that extra attack as well as flurry of blows with the bow. It's honestly one of the most DANGEROUS ways to play an Inquisitor, and it fixes a lot of his problems.

[Snowbluff]

What I wrote earlier about Saddle Surge and all of the stuff is much more dangerous than the sum of the inquisitor's other abilities. Take the animal domain. Get yourself a roc. Fly circles around dudes while hitting them with your CL x6. Samsaran is your friend.

[13ones]

You can still do that with an inquisitor, who also has access to the animal domain. Except he gets all the judgements and team work feats that he can use with his roc or allies. That way he also doesn't need to change his race.

[Snowbluff]

You can still do that with an inquisitor, who also has access to the animal domain. Except he gets all the judgements and team work feats that he can use with his roc or allies. That way he also doesn't need to change his race. I never said you couldn't do it as an inquisitor, but that if you do, you should take the Animal Domain. Even if you aren't doing this, the Feathers subdomain gives some nice bonuses to init and perception.

Litany of Righteousness is a swift action, and double damage. Not having an aura of good reeeeeeally sucks. You also wouldn't have Saddle Surge. It brings you down to CLx2 in damage.

[deuxhero]

I forgot thief tools were 30 GP (and likely fall under a complex item impossible to craft without investment), and that REALLY hurts. I really can't see any way beyond GM (ask about a general increase in starting wealth? Your roll method gives an average of ~30 point buy, which is VERY high power) or another player helping to deal with it outside of blowing a trait.

I can't really say I've liked the starting wealth rules for things exactly this. They don't make any sense (The classes that can only make a living as murder hobos are the richest, while the bard who has a day job and casters who could get by selling castings are the poorest :smallconfused:) on any level.

[killem2]

I forgot thief tools were 30 GP (and likely fall under a complex item impossible to craft without investment), and that REALLY hurts. I really can't see any way beyond GM (ask about a general increase in starting wealth? Your roll method gives an average of ~30 point buy, which is VERY high power) or another player helping to deal with it outside of blowing a trait.

I can't really say I've liked the starting wealth rules for things exactly this. They don't make any sense (The classes that can only make a living as murder hobos are the richest, while the bard who has a day job and casters who could get by selling castings are the poorest :smallconfused:) on any level.

I was curious as to how you figured up on the long bow that I would automatically reach the 12 DC to make it. I am guessing +2 from my ability score, +1 from rank, +3 from class skill.

But I cannot find the rest.

[Snowbluff]

(The classes that can only make a living as murder hobos are the richest, while the bard who has a day job and casters who could get by selling castings are the poorest :smallconfused:)

You're right. It's positively idiotic. A bard should EASILY have the highest amount of GP, since they can sell a few spells and have a day job. :l

[deuxhero]

I was curious as to how you figured up on the long bow that I would automatically reach the 12 DC to make it. I am guessing +2 from my ability score, +1 from rank, +3 from class skill.

But I cannot find the rest.

Take 10 with normal tools (5GP). Don't need to invest any ranks as craft can be used untrained.

[killem2]

Take 10 with normal tools (5GP). Don't need to invest any ranks as craft can be used untrained.



Yeah I figured that out about 3 hours later. My dm I don't think is on board with it. :smallyuk:

[grarrrg]

Zen Archer/3 Inquisitor/17

An argument can be made for Zen 4/Inquisitor 16
4th level grants the Ki Pool, which can be traded in for extra Flurry attacks. There's also +Unarmed Damage and +1 AC (if wearing a Monk's Robe these become pointless).
Might as well take Qinggong Monk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/qinggong-monk) if going for Monk 4, as then you can ditch Slow Fall for something else.
Feather Step, Augury, Deny Death and Scorching Ray all look serviceable.

[deuxhero]

My dm I don't think is on board with it. :smallyuk:

Why not? You are using the skill as intended.

[killem2]

So the crafting the gear is out unless you guys can come up with something to give him.

He says I can't craft gear at the character creation because what stops someone from preforming for money during the years before the adventure starts.

He's not allowing me to wrap that up into the background.

[killem2]

Ok, after a long drawn out debate with my GM lol, we made some compromises.

I think his core issue was, that I was using a skill during character creation, instead of after it.

I brought up just some things that kind of moved things in my favor a little I feel.


I told him that technically, skills and feats come before equipment. In character creation.
I told him that even crafting is untrained, so anyone even with out class ranks can do it.
I told him that starting wealth, is the hard limit. It's what a new character uses to best describe how they got that money.
I told him, I just felt cheesy taking rich parents trait. It didn't seem to fit a monkey humanoid monk.
I asked him what stops us from just waiting the exact number of weeks so that I can craft everything?
I asked him, doesn't a normal person buying from a shop with thier starting money also get around waiting for an item? Why must I?



Basically though, he will let me craft my longbow, and one quiver of blunt arrows. The rest of the equipment must be bought. Though I can sell back my artisan tools.

:) In other news another player will be taking the trapfinding stuff so I don't have to take it on mine, that means I get two new traits to pick :).


Also, I am interested in this Zen Archer/ Inquisitor business, any walkthroughs or handbooks on it?

[Snowbluff]

Also, I am interested in this Zen Archer/ Inquisitor business, any walkthroughs or handbooks on it?

You've heard all of the important bits. Use Named Bullet. Clerics are able to get a little more out of it. :smalltongue:

You can probably skip the third level of Zen Archer, since your dex is already high. You won't be using any spells with save, so invest your items and level points into dex. Bane for whatever you're fighting. Judgement for damage. Cast Abundant Ammunition. Use Named Bullet for whatever you're fighting on the pouch you hit with Abundant Ammunition. Make sure you have deadly aim and shoot the crap out of it.

[grarrrg]

You can probably skip the third level of Zen Archer, since your dex is already high.

No. Zen Archer 3 is must have.
WIS-to-hit isn't as important due to high DEX, but Point Blank Master is non-negotiable. Being able to shoot arrows at melee range without any pesky AoO's is solid gold.

[Snowbluff]

No. Zen Archer 3 is must have.
WIS-to-hit isn't as important due to high DEX, but Point Blank Master is non-negotiable. Being able to shoot arrows at melee range without any pesky AoO's is solid gold.

It only helps 1% of the time. It's very rare that you'll have:

1) An enemy in range.
2) An enemy that can hit you reliably for large amounts of damage.
3) An enemy that can do anything about any shot past the first.

Pesky is exactly that. Annoying, but superficial. In my opinion, your class levels are worth more than that. Level breakpoints and target level should be considered beforehand, of course.

As an aside, is there a way to improve your monk level for Flurry of Blows?

[grarrrg]

It only helps 1% of the time. It's very rare that you'll have:

I still say having the option is quite handy, I like options.
Another reason level 3 is good, is because Monk's Robe adds +5 to your Monk level, but the bonuses come at multiples of 4. 3+5=8 gets you the next round of bonuses.
WIS-to-hit can still be potentially handy, depending on just how the build goes or what gear is found. 19 DEX is enough to qualify for any "DEX #" feat, and once Inquisitor 2 is taken WIS counts for Initiative, lessening the usefulness of DEX some.

I'd at least say consider Monk 3 (or 4). Not necessarily taken right away, but considered for later improvement.


As an aside, is there a way to improve your monk level for Flurry of Blows?

No that I am aware of.

[killem2]

I have some questions but bear with me here because I'm still new to all the pathfinder stuff. If I were to go say the ZAM 4/ Inquisitor 16, sure I get to pick up great spells and such, but can I still use flurry with my normal slew of attacks?

Say I am level 20, the full 4/16 build here, if I am reading this right that means:

I should have five attacks total? two of which are flurry the rest are from the normal BAB.

+16Flurry of Blows/+16Flurry of Blows/+11Inquistor/+6Inquistor/+1Inquistor


I'm just trying to understand how I am going to get the most out of archery which was based on the monk to start with their full BAB flurry attacks while multiclassing. :smallconfused::smalleek::smallredface:

[grarrrg]

I have some questions but bear with me here because I'm still new to all the pathfinder stuff. If I were to go say the ZAM 4/ Inquisitor 16, sure I get to pick up great spells and such, but can I still use flurry with my normal slew of attacks?

Say I am level 20, the full 4/16 build here, if I am reading this right that means:

I should have five attacks total? two of which are flurry the rest are from the normal BAB.

+16Flurry of Blows/+16Flurry of Blows/+11Inquistor/+6Inquistor/+1Inquistor

You've got it, other than the "-2 to all attacks" that Flurry gives.

So your base-Bab would be 15, your Flurry-Bab would be 16 but with a -2.
So before DEX/Weapon/other you'd be at +14/+14/+9/+4/-1

[killem2]

You've got it, other than the "-2 to all attacks" that Flurry gives.

So your base-Bab would be 15, your Flurry-Bab would be 16 but with a -2.
So before DEX/Weapon/other you'd be at +14/+14/+9/+4/-1


I see, so it is the consensus that inquisitor or some variant of spell caster with the above domains is going to be more powerful at archery than say 20 zam or are we talking about my concern about dealing with the undead?

[grarrrg]

I see, so it is the consensus that inquisitor or some variant of spell caster with the above domains is going to be more powerful at archery than say 20 zam or are we talking about my concern about dealing with the undead?

Part of the issue is the Undead thing (although dipping Ranger for Favored Enemy might be more useful in that regard).
The other part is that Zen Archer is very front loaded, meaning you may not want to stick around for the whole 20.

I've already made points about levels 4 or less above, these levels are where the good stuff hits. Notably you out-feat the Fighter by a good margin.
Level 6 is a bonus feat (w/more options) and Weapon Specialization.
Level 7 isn't that special, but gains options with Qinggong.
Level 8 is your 2nd Flurry attack, and rounds off Monk features (Bab/Unarmed/AC/movement)
Level 9 is pretty sweet for being able to make AoO's with your bow.
Level 10 is a bonus feat (w/more options)
Level 11 lets you spend Ki to ignore Cover, Concealment and even corners!
Level 12 is mostly just incremental Monk stuff (rounds off Bab/Saves/Unarmed/AC/Movement)
After level 12 it's mostly just "monk stuff" (although Qinggong can be handy for that)

Good break points are level 4 (or earlier), level 9, and level 12.

[Snowbluff]

I still say having the option is quite handy, I like options.
Another reason level 3 is good, is because Monk's Robe adds +5 to your Monk level, but the bonuses come at multiples of 4. 3+5=8 gets you the next round of bonuses.
WIS-to-hit can still be potentially handy, depending on just how the build goes or what gear is found. 19 DEX is enough to qualify for any "DEX #" feat, and once Inquisitor 2 is taken WIS counts for Initiative, lessening the usefulness of DEX some.

I'd at least say consider Monk 3 (or 4). Not necessarily taken right away, but considered for later improvement.

That's a good point about the Monk's Robe. I don't think the benefits really help an archer a whole lot.


No that I am aware of.
KHAN! KHAN!

I see, so it is the consensus that inquisitor or some variant of spell caster with the above domains is going to be more powerful at archery than say 20 zam or are we talking about my concern about dealing with the undead?
There are probably better options for Domains, but those are my preferred ones. For example, the Good Domain gives the Holy enchantment for your weapons, which is 2d6 more damage versus undead.

[killem2]

Some more questions.

1. Named Bullet, it is said that this is better for clerics, but how do clerics use it? It isn't a cleric spell. Plus, even if I go after ZAM 3, that's coming online at level 10. Not arguing the effectiveness, but that's bit to wait isn't it?

2. I see the combo of named bullet and the abundant ammunition, but I'm not seeing how this is possible with the builds above.

3. Saddle surge also is very awesome but it says that is paladin only?

I have got to be missing something.

[grarrrg]

1. Named Bullet, it is said that this is better for clerics, but how do clerics use it? It isn't a cleric spell. Plus, even if I go after ZAM 3, that's coming online at level 10. Not arguing the effectiveness, but that's bit to wait isn't it?

2. I see the combo of named bullet and the abundant ammunition, but I'm not seeing how this is possible with the builds above.

3. Saddle surge also is very awesome but it says that is paladin only?

I have got to be missing something.

Yeah, we tend to ignore Snowbluff too :smalltongue:
Here's a previous quote with some minor edits:

Be a samsaran.

Named Bullet (Undead) + Abundant Ammunition + Saddle Surge = you murder everything. Needs some Litany of Righteousness if you're grabbing a Good Aura.

Samsarans (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/uncommon-races/arg-samsaran) have an alternate racial trait that lets them poach spells from other classes.
"Mystic Past Life (Su) You can add spells from another spellcasting class to the spell list of your current spellcasting class. You add a number of spells..."

There's also always another possibility of getting off-list spells. There's a guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?296803-Pathfinder-mini-guide-Casting-spells-from-other-lists), but at first glance I don't see any that would help Cleric/Inquisitor easily.

[killem2]

Yeah, we tend to ignore Snowbluff too :smalltongue:
Here's a previous quote with some minor edits:


Samsarans (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/uncommon-races/arg-samsaran) have an alternate racial trait that lets them poach spells from other classes.
"Mystic Past Life (Su) You can add spells from another spellcasting class to the spell list of your current spellcasting class. You add a number of spells..."

There's also always another possibility of getting off-list spells. There's a guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?296803-Pathfinder-mini-guide-Casting-spells-from-other-lists), but at first glance I don't see any that would help Cleric/Inquisitor easily.

Haha, no ignoring intended of course. If this were d&d I probably would have picked up on it right away. Thanks for pointing that out, it makes much more sense.

[Snowbluff]

It all should work out fine. Just be careful about the durations of those spells and casting them ahead of time.

I'll also point out that they changed many shot... for some reason. It can be combined with Rapid Shot, it seems. I would have made it work on either standard or full attacks.

Yeah, we tend to ignore Snowbluff too :smalltongue:


Which is crazy, considering how often my comments become relevant, even if they were not at the time of writing. I know I'm not the easiest person to work with, so whatevs. :smallsigh:

[Sayt]

I'll also point out that they changed many shot... for some reason. It can be combined with Rapid Shot, it seems. I would have made it work on either standard or full attacks.


Unfortunately Paizo's Committee for Anti-Fun decided that Zen Archer's Bow-Flurry can't be used in conjunction with Rapid or Manyshot.

[Snowbluff]

Unfortunately Paizo's Committee for Anti-Fun decided that Zen Archer's Bow-Flurry can't be used in conjunction with Rapid or Manyshot.

That's actually why I brought it up. I might make my Cleric/monk archer a fighter/cleric instead (depending on level) to compensate for this.

[killem2]

Alright, I checked out that Samsaran, I like the class, it saddens me to lose my climb skill but I suppose I can get by with out it. The last reservation I have is the RAW arguments about Named Bullet and Abundant Ammunition. Lots of posts are coming back with wording issues on it. While I don't want to derail this thread, has there been erratas to correct it?

[grarrrg]

Alright, I checked out that Samsaran, I like the class, it saddens me to lose my climb skill but I suppose I can get by with out it. The last reservation I have is the RAW arguments about Named Bullet and Abundant Ammunition. Lots of posts are coming back with wording issues on it. While I don't want to derail this thread, has there been erratas to correct it?

No Errata, no FAQ.
Next best you can hope for is an "official" forum post, where someone with some rank at Paizo actually says something.


Which is crazy, considering how often my comments become relevant, even if they were not at the time of writing. I know I'm not the easiest person to work with, so whatevs. :smallsigh:

:biggrin:
Warning: Pregnant women, the elderly, and children under 10 should avoid prolonged exposure to Happy Snowbluff.
Do not use Happy Snowbluff on concrete.
If Happy Snowbluff begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head.
Do not taunt Happy Snowbluff.
Happy Snowbluff comes with a lifetime warranty.

[killem2]

Ok now it is all really starting to make sense, and I can agree on why Cleric is a better choice you are going to get spells a lot earlier, plus it gives me access to healing in a pinch. Though, wands will be used.

I can see where inquisitor has some tricks, but the real question is, are those tricks going to be better than spell casting? Because if we put spell casting cleric vs spell casting inquisitor who's going to take the cake here really? When you consider double domain powers, spell casting, healing in a pinch, plus the if I stick with a good alignment the bonus over undead is going to put me safely into a nice archer role, specialized when the time comes for undead, still deadly for all else, and support the party as a whole...


what argument can really be made for inquisitor?

And Samsaran is def going to have to be my race, that trait is amazing. I have to ask though when do you pick those spells? at first level or when you get your first level of spell casting?

[Snowbluff]

:biggrin:
Warning: Pregnant women, the elderly, and children under 10 should avoid prolonged exposure to Happy Snowbluff.
Do not use Happy Snowbluff on concrete.
If Happy Snowbluff begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head.
Do not taunt Happy Snowbluff.
Happy Snowbluff comes with a lifetime warranty.
PPPPFFFFT! *spits out Powerbar* Classic! Hehehe! :smallbiggrin:

Ok now it is all really starting to make sense, and I can agree on why Cleric is a better choice you are going to get spells a lot earlier, plus it gives me access to healing in a pinch. Though, wands will be used.

I can see where inquisitor has some tricks, but the real question is, are those tricks going to be better than spell casting? Because if we put spell casting cleric vs spell casting inquisitor who's going to take the cake here really? When you consider double domain powers, spell casting, healing in a pinch, plus the if I stick with a good alignment the bonus over undead is going to put me safely into a nice archer role, specialized when the time comes for undead, still deadly for all else, and support the party as a whole...

what argument can really be made for inquisitor?

And Samsaran is def going to have to be my race, that trait is amazing. I have to ask though when do you pick those spells? at first level or when you get your first level of spell casting?
Um... I'll play Devil's Advocate, I guess.

Inquisitors get more skills, I guess. Probably doesn't make up for the lost Domain, though...

I would assume at first level.

Here's the initial build I worked on for an upcoming campaign:

Ved Hari
Samsaran Cleric 3 (*grumble*) of one of the 5 or so Longbow/Good/Animal deities. Probably Erastil
Domains: Friendship, Feathers
Feats: Channel Smite (lousy feat tax for an archer), Guided Hand
Traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Knack
Mystic Past Life Spells (Samsaran): Saddle Surge, Litany of Righteousness, Versatile Weapon, Abundant Ammuntion, Named Bullet, Greater Named Bullet
Stats (assuming 20pt): 14, 12, 10, 10, 20, 7
By five, Zen Archer 1/Cleric4 with Boon Companion
By seven, ZA1/Cleric6 with Deadly Aim, and a Roc.

I think I opted to change the build order and stats a bit. Here it is! (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=923041)

[killem2]

That is pretty sweet, instead of a roc however what do you suggest given the setting? Mummy's Mask I am guessing from the player's guide we're going to be inside tombs.

[Snowbluff]

That is pretty sweet, instead of a roc however what do you suggest given the setting? Mummy's Mask I am guessing from the player's guide we're going to be inside tombs.

Probably just a horse. I'll look into it, buddy. I'd suggest anything with a high speed and good dex.

As for a feat in a tomb for an animal companion, I suggest Narrow Frame (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/narrow-frame) and Lithe Attacker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/lithe-attacker).

Also, if you have 11 Cha, you can qualify for Arcane Archer. Shooting people with Litany of Righteousness, any one?

[killem2]

Probably just a horse. I'll look into it, buddy. I'd suggest anything with a high speed and good dex.

As for a feat in a tomb for an animal companion, I suggest Narrow Frame (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/narrow-frame) and Lithe Attacker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/lithe-attacker).

Also, if you have 11 Cha, you can qualify for Arcane Archer. Shooting people with Litany of Righteousness, any one?

Thanks, I will take a look myself as well. I do think cleric is going to be a great path to do, and if I pick animal for the domain. I am not sure about having an animal companion, I wasn't even trying to go down that route. (Not that it isn't a possibility).

I dont see my GM having much issues with the named bullet stuff, It's such a trivial piece of rules lingo and the spells are so close together and by the time most would have them you are either going to not be built for archery, multiclassed all to hell or be high enough level to balance it out. Either way it's fine.

Now I need to really go through those domains.

[13ones]

Here's a break down of some key inquisitor stuff that makes it different from the cleric.

- One Domain. One is often enough to really get the job done. Two is useful but you really only ever need one.
- Judgements. Clerics don't get these. These are straight up combat buffs. A lot of these actually make it easier to hit or buff up your damage in a way that stacks with other abilities since its sacred rather than the normal + buffs
Destruction: The inquisitor is filled with divine wrath, gaining a +1 sacred bonus on all weapon damage rolls. This bonus increases by +1 for every three inquisitor levels she possesses.

Healing: The inquisitor is surrounded by a healing light, gaining fast healing 1. This causes the inquisitor to heal 1 point of damage each round as long as the inquisitor is alive and the judgment lasts. The amount of healing increases by 1 point for every three inquisitor levels she possesses.

Justice: This judgment spurs the inquisitor to seek justice, granting a +1 sacred bonus on all attack rolls. This bonus increases by +1 for every five inquisitor levels she possesses. At 10th level, this bonus is doubled on all attack rolls made to confirm critical hits.

Piercing: This judgment gives the inquisitor great focus and makes her spells more potent. This benefit grants a +1 sacred bonus on concentration checks and caster level checks made to overcome a target’s spell resistance. This bonus increases by +1 for every three inquisitor levels she possesses.

Protection: The inquisitor is surrounded by a protective aura, granting a +1 sacred bonus to Armor Class. This bonus increases by +1 for every five inquisitor levels she possesses. At 10th level, this bonus is doubled against attack rolls made to confirm critical hits against the inquisitor.

Purity: The inquisitor is protected from the vile taint of her foes, gaining a +1 sacred bonus on all saving throws. This bonus increases by +1 for every five inquisitor levels she possesses. At 10th level, the bonus is doubled against curses, diseases, and poisons.

Resiliency: This judgment makes the inquisitor resistant to harm, granting DR 1/magic. This DR increases by 1 for every five levels she possesses. At 10th level, this DR changes from magic to an alignment (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) that is opposite the inquisitor’s. If she is neutral, the inquisitor does not receive this increase.

Resistance: The inquisitor is shielded by a flickering aura, gaining 2 points of energy resistance against one energy type (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic) chosen when the judgment is declared. The protection increases by 2 for every three inquisitor levels she possesses.

Smiting: This judgment bathes the inquisitor’s weapons in a divine light. The inquisitor’s weapons count as magic for the purposes of bypassing damage reduction. At 6th level, the inquisitor’s weapons also count as one alignment type (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction. The type selected must match one of the inquisitor’s alignments. If the inquisitor is neutral, she does not receive this bonus. At 10th level, the inquisitor’s weapons also count as adamantine for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction (but not for reducing hardness).

-Cunning Initiative gets you Wis to Initiative, cutting down on dex dependance which allows you to pump up con and strength more.
- Solo Tactics and Team Work feats. Usually it is really hard to get team work feats to work since that requires people working in conjunction to take the same feats. You get access to a lot of really neat feats which can be used in tight areas effectively.
- Bane. Apply the Bane weapon ability as a swift action. Got a bane undead weapon but suddenly find yourself facing constructs? An inquisitor spends a swift action and changes that.
- Stalwart is basically Evasion for Fort and Will saves. Think about that.
- Spontaneous casting. I ALWAYS prefer this to prepared. You lose like 4 spells know but honestly the sheer flexibility you get is worth it.

So in short inquisitor has all the tools to be better at the combat roll than the samsaran thing, but I'm not going to deny the fact its just as good if not better than the inquisitor at everything else.

[Snowbluff]

Thanks, I will take a look myself as well. I do think cleric is going to be a great path to do, and if I pick animal for the domain. I am not sure about having an animal companion, I wasn't even trying to go down that route. (Not that it isn't a possibility).

I dont see my GM having much issues with the named bullet stuff, It's such a trivial piece of rules lingo and the spells are so close together and by the time most would have them you are either going to not be built for archery, multiclassed all to hell or be high enough level to balance it out. Either way it's fine.

Now I need to really go through those domains.

I like Tactics, too. Rerolling init is good.

Feathers is nice for the perception bonus.

I'll dig for some of the other good ones.

[grarrrg]

- Solo Tactics and Team Work feats. Usually it is really hard to get team work feats to work since that requires people working in conjunction to take the same feats. You get access to a lot of really neat feats which can be used in tight areas effectively.

There really aren't many Ranged-Teamwork feats, the few there are are solid, but they require other Archers to function.

If you'd rather not use Teamwork then a couple Archetypes may help:
Preacher (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/archetypes/paizo---inquisitor-archetypes/preacher) ditches _only_ the Teamwork feats in exchange for a handful of X/day abilities.
Spellbreaker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/archetypes/paizo---inquisitor-archetypes/spellbreaker) loses all Teamwork plus Monster Lore (with multiclassing level 20 isn't an issue). You gain roll twice-take-best vs. Mind Affecting spells, and progressive bonuses vs. Arcane spells.
You can also jack up the Concentration DC's when you shoot people.

[killem2]

I can promise you for sure, there will probably be another archer. We have a 15 year old kid who no matter what you build him he only chucks dice. So, I could stack team work feats on him like mad.

[killem2]

Hey Snowy,

any chance you got to work any of your wicked voodoo magic on what else I should be looking for. I've been doing some homework of my own, and I'm starting to learn more and more to being an absolute murderer of undead, but I don't think the traditional domains (sun, good ect) will work as well, if I have a charisma of 10. (channeled energy) so I'm going to try and pick the best options to accent that bow when it comes to cleric.

[Snowbluff]

Yeah, 10 Cha isn't really good enough for the save.

How about Repose and/or Psychopomp to fight ghosts? Swift action ghost touch could be handy.

Also, holy water arrows. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/ammunition/ammunition-bow-arrow-raining)