Belkar and Durkon

[KyrtFurey]

I'm missing something...

Why is Belkar suspicious of Durkon to the point he believes that Durkon isn't Durkon?

[Sartharina]

Because he saw the circumstances of Durkon's death.

[Kish]

I'm missing something...

Why is Belkar suspicious of Durkon to the point he believes that Durkon isn't Durkon?
Good question.

Any answer from anyone but Rich would be purely speculative.

[malloyd]

I'm missing something...

Why is Belkar suspicious of Durkon to the point he believes that Durkon isn't Durkon?

Is there some reason he shouldn't be? Maybe that's how it is in all the stories told in Evil Halfling villages. It's actually more consistent both with the source legends and the way lesser undead work in D&D to assume that all undead are animated by demons from hell (well OK, spirits from the negative material plane for the D&D rules) and if there are any exceptions they are special rewards granted by the powers of Evil.

It's actually thinking Durkon is the same person, with a forced alignment change that doesn't actually matter, that's the weird case. I blame it on the legacy of playable monsters. Once upon a time everybody would know that just being corrupted by evil, let alone actually transformed into a monster, would mean you wouldn't share goals or retain any regard for your past social relationships.

Edit: It may be relevant that nobody was confused enough to think Roy the Bone Golem was Roy returned from the dead with severe brain damage, though there's no obvious reason that *couldn't* have been what happened. I wouldn't be too surprised if somebody eventually points that out.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Belkar is suspicious of Durkon probably because he saw Durkon rise and saw him drain his blood. Belkar doesn't really have a logical basis for his belief though.

[Gift Jeraff]

I don't think there's a single reason.

The others probably have the same suspsicions, but are still clinging to the possibility that it is Durkon. Belkar is less optimistic than they are.

He's emotionally invested in Durkon's death because it was a life-changing experience. His primary emotional response is violence, and who else to lash out at then the walking mockery resulting from Durkon's death?

He saw Durkon outraged by Malack's vampirism, and now suddenly he's OK with being a vampire?

He heard Malack talk about his living counterpart with contempt.

[Jay R]

Belkar likes killing people. But he has learned that he can only get away with it when others agree to that killing.

So he's trying to convince them to agree to the only killing he can currently find any sort of justification for.

(No, I don't think that this is the complete explanation, but I do believe that he is led by temperament in this direction.)

[theNater]

One of the ways Belkar identifies people is by smell. Durkula probably smells differently than Durkon did, which would lead Belkar to assume they are different people.

[KyrtFurey]

Is there some reason he shouldn't be?

In 939, Belkar (and everyone else) was willing to accept Durkon as Durkon. Vampirised, deserving of death, yadda yadda yadda...but still Durkon.

In 953....he's stating that Durkon isn't Durkon. He might understandably want to kill Durkon....but the whole "He's not Durkon" routine just seems (to me anyway) to come out of nowhere. HE went from "Yes, he's evil but he's still Durkon" to "He's not Durkon at all"

What changed in those 13 pages? Did I miss something?

It'd be one thing if all it was was he just wanted to kill Durkon. But where did his insight into false Durkon come from?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

In 939, Belkar (and everyone else) was willing to accept Durkon as Durkon. Vampirised, deserving of death, yadda yadda yadda...but still Durkon.

In 953....he's stating that Durkon isn't Durkon. He might understandably want to kill Durkon....but the whole "He's not Durkon" routine just seems (to me anyway) to come out of nowhere. HE went from "Yes, he's evil but he's still Durkon" to "He's not Durkon at all"

What changed in those 13 pages? Did I miss something?

It'd be one thing if all it was was he just wanted to kill Durkon. But where did his insight into false Durkon come from?

I'm pretty sure his motivations in 939 are the exact same as those currently.

[Kish]

Belkar never said "He's Durkon." 29 strips earlier than 939, he responded to, "That IS Durkon!" with "No, it isn't!" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0910.html)

[theNater]

In 939, Belkar (and everyone else) was willing to accept Durkon as Durkon. Vampirised, deserving of death, yadda yadda yadda...but still Durkon.
Some key points from 939:

:durkon:: 'Twas na meself when I drank yer blood, lad.
:belkar:: As opposed to now?

That's Belkar expressing disbelief that Durkula is the same as Durkon.

A little later, when the rest of the party is treating Durkula like Durkon with new appetites, we get:

:belkar:: You're nuts. You've all gone crazy...

Again, this suggests he does not believe Durkula is Durkon.

[TurtlesAWD]

Belkar heard, if I recall, the thing Malak said about resurrecting him being a complicated way of killing who Malak was today. This may have given Belkar the idea that a vampire is different than the living person it originated from, at least enough that if they want the old durkon back, it requires killing the vampire.

[Jay R]

Do we need to search for a complicated reason why Belkar wants to kill someone?

Really?

[Reddish Mage]

The only way to explain Belkar's outrage at Durkula, and firm conviction "it" isn't Durkon involves assuming very non-Belkarish emotions and motives. Just look at how he argues here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0910.html).

[strijder20]

The only way to explain Belkar's outrage at Durkula, and firm conviction "it" isn't Durkon involves assuming very non-Belkarish emotions and motives. Just look at how he argues here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0910.html).

That page also reveals that Belkar thinks the vampire is something entirely different and not just a subverted version of Durkon, which he would hate because it is 'not really Durkon':

:belkar: What about Durkon?
:roy: That IS Durkon!
:belkar: No it isn't!!

[ElenionAncalima]

The others probably have the same suspsicions, but are still clinging to the possibility that it is Durkon. Belkar is less optimistic than they are.


I think this is a big factor. The other characters all cared a lot about Durkon, so they want to accept that he is alive and unchanged (thats a -5 to sense motive, right there :smallwink:).

Belkar's feelings towards Durkon were probably somewhere is the apathy to dislike range, so he is not so easily manipulated. While it is possible Durkon's final act made him a little more invested in the cleric's fate, Belkar being Belkar is still more likely to repond to these new feelings with distrust and violence. Durkon not being himself allows Belkar to have it both ways. He can be angry towards him, without dealing with the fact that saved his life.

[b_jonas]

One of the ways Belkar identifies people is by smell. Durkula probably smells differently than Durkon did, which would lead Belkar to assume they are different people.

That, yes. The vampire Durkon smells different because he takes baths and doesn't drink beer.

[Emperordaniel]

That, yes. The vampire Durkon smells different because he takes baths and doesn't drink beer.

Wouldn't immersion in tap water kill the HPoH? :smallconfused:

[Kish]

Vampires die from immersion in running water. They're not Ozian witches, to melt if someone dumps a bucket of washwater over them.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

How well would one be able to take a bath while on an airship anyways?

[Emperordaniel]

How well would one be able to take a bath while on an airship anyways?

Recycle the water over and over again. :smallyuk:

[rbetieh]

I'm missing something...

Why is Belkar suspicious of Durkon to the point he believes that Durkon isn't Durkon?

It's the cat. Belkar hates knows its not the same person because of the cats behavior towards him. I always found it interesting that Belkar was given a cat animal companion anyways....

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Recycle the water over and over again. :smallyuk:

You'd think they'd need most of their water to drink, wouldn't you?

[evileeyore]

You'd think they'd need most of their water to drink, wouldn't you?
Being an airship they have far greater access to water for drinking than a traditional blue water ship.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Being an airship they have far greater access to water for drinking than a traditional blue water ship.

In what way?

(Although, come to think of it, they have a Cleric who can cast Create Food and Water and fix any water shortages they have)

[137beth]

Recycle the water over and over again. :smallyuk:

No need, Create Water is a 0th level spell.

[evileeyore]

In what way?
Have you ever looked at a real world map and seen just how many rivers and streams there are in any given 50 mile stretch of land (not talking uninhabitable deserts and badlands)?

Let me clue you in... lots.

Now compare that to how much potable water you find in any 50 mile stretch of the ocean...

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Have you ever looked at a real world map and seen just how many rivers and streams there are in any given 50 mile stretch of land (not talking uninhabitable deserts and badlands)?

Let me clue you in... lots.

Now compare that to how much potable water you find in any 50 mile stretch of the ocean...

Well, given that they're flying over the ocean currently, how much land do you think is there in any 50 mile stretch of the ocean?

[evileeyore]

Well, given that they're flying over the ocean currently, how much land do you think is there in any 50 mile stretch of the ocean?
Sure. Right now... :smallsigh:



I had to check the archive to see what they were flying over... I forgot the Elven/Desert continent and the "main" continent were separate.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Sure. Right now... :smallsigh:

Another thing is that they may be less likely to stop and take on water (especially with a Cleric on board) since they are in a bit if a rush.

[evileeyore]

Another thing is that they may be less likely to stop and take on water (especially with a Cleric on board) since they are in a bit if a rush.
I'm not going to check on what create water is as a spell, but to my way of thinking, if you have a Cleric (and they do) who can either prepare healing/protection spells or create water spells and you can make a few quick 'pit stops' for water, you make the stops and let the Cleric prep heal/prot spells.


Now, we don't know what the Mechane's Cleric is, Positive or Negative channeling wise, Adad as a God* is a force of Destruction, Chaos, Fertility, and Weather **... but his close association with Shamash the Sun God*** suggests to me Akad falls on the Chaotic Good side of the equation so his follower would be a Positive channeler...

So right, he preps some prot spells and maybe a few create water/food as emergency ration spells.




* Rhyme unintended
** Real world mythology, I have no idea what the cosmology of the OotS world is.
*** Among others whom all tend to fall on the side of "helpful to their followers" not on the "smite if you don't sacrifice to us" side.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I'm not going to check on what create water is as a spell, but to my way of thinking, if you have a Cleric (and they do) who can either prepare healing/protection spells or create water spells and you can make a few quick 'pit stops' for water, you make the stops and let the Cleric prep heal/prot spells.


Now, we don't know what the Mechane's Cleric is, Positive or Negative channeling wise, Adad as a God* is a force of Destruction, Chaos, Fertility, and Weather **... but his close association with Shamash the Sun God*** suggests to me Akad falls on the Chaotic Good side of the equation so his follower would be a Positive channeler...

So right, he preps some prot spells and maybe a few create water/food as emergency ration spells.




* Rhyme unintended
** Real world mythology, I have no idea what the cosmology of the OotS world is.
*** Among others whom all tend to fall on the side of "helpful to their followers" not on the "smite if you don't sacrifice to us" side.

Normally, I would imagine they would do something like this. However, in their current situation, they are looking to continue moving really quickly, what with the fate of the world at stake and all that. Also, since there is currently another Cleric on board, he can create all the water that they need, or prepare whatever spells they need. They are unlikely to need all that many other spells anyways, since they probably won't be encountering many other things, and just about any encounter would be dealt with by the Order. Finally, Create Water, especially if the Mechane Cleric is a positive-energy channeled, doesn't really take that many slots away from healing.

[evileeyore]

Finally, Create Water, especially if the Mechane Cleric is a positive-energy channeled, doesn't really take that many slots away from healing.
Yes, that's why my argument shifted to basically agreeing with you at the end of my post.

However since the Mechane can't go faster than the speed of plot, they can probably take all the time they want and still get there in the nick of time (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0937.html).

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Yes, that's why my argument shifted to basically agreeing with you at the end of my post.
Oh, sorry, I didn't see that last part.


However since the Mechane can't go faster than the speed of plot, they can probably take all the time they want and still get there in the nick of time (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0937.html).
I think Roy doesn't really trust that and just wants to get there as soon as possible.

[evileeyore]

I think Roy doesn't really trust that and just wants to get there as soon as possible.
I agree. "Nick Of Time" Engines are a fundamentally chaotic thing.

[orrion]

I agree. "Nit Of Time" Engines are a fundamentally chaotic thing.

Nuh-uh, they follow the laws of storytelling!

[137beth]

Nuh-uh, they follow the laws of storytelling!

Roy has never really seemed like he supported the Laws of Storytelling, though:smalltongue:

[evileeyore]

Nuh-uh, they follow the laws of storytelling!
Like Bards, Nick of Time Engines use the Laws of Storytelling, but aren't bound by them.

[warrl]

As for Roy's not seeing anything suspicious in Durkula's behavior...

... perhaps he simply doesn't want to discuss the matter where Durkula can hear it.

Belkar was established as anti-Durkula early on, so his rants don't matter. In fact, the more he rants and the less sense he makes, the better cover he provides.

But if Durkula were to hear Roy respond to Belkar with "Yes, I know, and we need to take care of him soon", well, that would cause some trouble.

[veti]

Nuh-uh, they follow the laws of storytelling!

But the Laws of Storytelling clearly state that Nick-of-Time Drive requires that the users be trying to go as fast as possible. If they deliberately loiter, it won't work, as they'll be flouting the same storytelling conventions that they're relying on to get them there in the NoT.

So really, everyone's on the same page here.

[evileeyore]

As for Roy's not seeing anything suspicious in Durkula's behavior...

... perhaps he simply doesn't want to discuss the matter where Durkula can hear it.
It's more likely that the only party member that knows how vampirism works is Durkon, and he's not in a position to explain it.

Vaarsuvius might be able to make the Knowledge (Religion) check... maybe. The reason Belkar is so adamant that Durkon isn;t Durkon is he over heard the conversation between Malak and Durkon during their fight.

But with no Wisdom, Charisma, or Intelligence to speak of he can't put into words adequately so comes off as "more Belkar shenanigans"... when he's actually trying to be a team player.

[warrl]

It's more likely that the only party member that knows how vampirism works is Durkon, and he's not in a position to explain it.

Irrelevant. Roy knows that Vampire!Durkon is not the same as Live!Durkon, and is evil. That's sufficient.


Vaarsuvius might be able to make the Knowledge (Religion) check... maybe.

But that check isn't needed.

What's needed is a Knowledge (Durkon) check. And there's probably nobody alive who has a better chance at that check than Roy.

At some point, Hpoh will mess up enough of the small details that Roy, inside his head, will go "that's sufficiently different from Durkon that he's untrustworthy and unpredictable" and will further have done harm sufficient that Roy will add "As well as unreliable and dangerous. We'd be better off without him".

That point may or may not have already passed.

When it has passed, Roy would really prefer to act on the decision (with backup from the rest of the group) before Hpoh realizes it has been made. Because high-level melee clerics are not easy to put down when they are NOT vampires.

[evileeyore]

Irrelevant. Roy knows that Vampire!Durkon is not the same as Live!Durkon, and is evil. That's sufficient.
No he doesn't.

He's fooled along with everyone who isn't Belkar.

Roy thinks it's Durkon, just an Evil version that is willing to help. Roy probably also mistakenly believes that when they have access to a Cleric with Resurrection his buddy Evil Durkon will go along with being killed and raised.

He just about says as much when he strikes down Belkar's "let's gang rush him" plan. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0939.html)




But that check isn't needed.
It is needed. It is needed because they clearly do not understand that vampires are not "just Evil versions of the original". Vampires are possessed by an Evil spirit, and that Evil spirit that is smarter, wiser, and more socially capable than the original.

Roy isn't likely to make any such made up nonesense as a "Knowledge (Durkon)" check.

Haley might make a Sense Motive if Durkula makes a Bluff, but at this point she is pretty much the party's only hope of figuring out Durkula isn't whom they think he is before he strikes with whatever plan is being cooked up.



At some point, Hpoh will mess up enough of the small details that Roy, inside his head, will go "that's sufficiently different from Durkon that he's untrustworthy and unpredictable" and will further have done harm sufficient that Roy will add "As well as unreliable and dangerous. We'd be better off without him".
1 - He hasn't messed up any details yet, and
2 - Right now Roy doesn't think of him as anything other than reliable and a friend.



That point may or may not have already passed.
You really aren't paying attention to the comic are you?

[warrl]

Irrelevant. Roy knows that Vampire!Durkon is not the same as Live!Durkon, and is evil.
No he doesn't.

Yes, he does. If he did not, the first time he met Vampire!Durkon he would not have asked if the latter is now evil.

You're assuming I'm specifying that Roy knows how much not-the-same. I am not.


He's fooled along with everyone who isn't Belkar.

That may be true. It alternatively may be that he is pretending to be fooled.


Roy thinks it's Durkon, just an Evil version

Which would be not the same as pre-Vampire Durkon. There would need to be some exploration of just how being Evil alters him - even if one assumes it's really still him.


that is willing to help. Roy probably also mistakenly believes that when they have access to a Cleric with Resurrection his buddy Evil Durkon will go along with being killed and raised.

He just about says as much when he strikes down Belkar's "let's gang rush him" plan. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0939.html)

That comic is consistent with your interpretation.

It is also consistent with NOT trying to execute a poorly-thought-out attack plan against a high-level spellcaster with freshly-replenished spells, who probably could hear the entire discussion of said plan, while the spellcaster who might come in on your side is depleted, and not wanting the target spellcaster to even realize you intend to (eventually) target him.

In addition, that was some time ago in-comic. It may be that Roy was fooled then and is not fooled now.


It {Knowledge:Religion check} is needed. It is needed because they clearly do not understand that vampires are not "just Evil versions of the original". Vampires are possessed by an Evil spirit, and that Evil spirit that is smarter, wiser, and more socially capable than the original.

If they realize that Vampire!Durkon is a liability and a danger rather than an asset - which would not require a Knowledge:Religion check - do they need to understand that his body is possessed by an evil not-Durkon entity? No, they don't. They just need to terminate his undead existence.

[veti]

Vaarsuvius might be able to make the Knowledge (Religion) check... maybe.

Durkon himself failed that check. (If he hadn't, I very much doubt he'd have looked so happy about dying to Malack's bite.) I don't see anyone else making it.

Plus, if I recall aright, there is Word of Giant to the effect vampires are not a well-known, well-documented threat in this setting, and the number of people who know precisely how they work is very limited.

[evileeyore]

Durkon himself failed that check. (If he hadn't, I very much doubt he'd have looked so happy about dying to Malack's bite.)
I agree.



Plus, if I recall aright, there is Word of Giant to the effect vampires are not a well-known, well-documented threat in this setting, and the number of people who know precisely how they work is very limited.
Well, that would simplify that aspect.

[Waylor]

Probably because even Belkar understood that Durkon sacrificed himself to save his life (#880), a very different Durkon than the one that left the piramid. And again at #944 Roy mentions again Durkon being not available, so even if they don't agree on him being Durkon or not, there is at least enough evidence that the party doesn't fully trust him either.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Plus, if I recall aright, there is Word of Giant to the effect vampires are not a well-known, well-documented threat in this setting, and the number of people who know precisely how they work is very limited.

There is a difference, however, between knowing that someone has been possessed by a negative energy spirit and realizing that they are a different person who no longer wants to help you.

[evileeyore]

And again at #944 Roy mentions again Durkon being not available...
That's not hat he says.

He says "Or cleric is in the shop..." whilst talking about morality issues. Roy believes Durkon is now Evil, not Durkon is gone. In this context Durkon being Evil means he'd not have any problems with Vaarusvius' genocide of the Black Dragon blood line, not that Durkula isn't Durkon.

[Darth Paul]

That's not what he says.

He says "Our cleric is in the shop..." whilst talking about morality issues. Roy believes Durkon is now Evil, not Durkon is gone.


100% correct, and this is by all visible indications what everyone except Belkar believes. There is a "wishful thinking" thing going on in one of the posts above, that Roy knows exactly what has happened to his oldest friend, has already made his plans for how to deal with him, and has discussed it with the rest of the Order, all off-screen- and we are going to see it in one glorious reveal. I don't see that happening.

For one thing, there is no indication that Roy has any more clue than Mr. Scruffy as to what happened to Durkon. (The cat probably has a better idea, come to think of it.) Also, we have already had a "glorious secret plan reveal" when the Mechane arrived to rescue the OotS from Tarquin; two so close together would cheapen it. Finally, I don't know that there has been time for anyone to plan anything, even if Roy had grown suspicious. The trip to the Gate is only 8-10 days travelling at the speed of plot, and it's not been discussed how many days have passed, but it doesn't seem likely to be more than 2 or 3.

I'm going with the notion that Belkar (and probably Mr. Scruffy) is still the only one who suspects Durkula is not just "Evil Durkon" until something in-comic shows otherwise.

[LordRahl6]

Probably has something to do with Evil recognizing Evil.:smallamused:

[jedipilot24]

Probably has something to do with Evil recognizing Evil.:smallamused:

Just what I was about to say. When Nale infiltrated the party, Belkar was the only one to catch on.

[evileeyore]

Just what I was about to say. When Nale infiltrated the party, Belkar was the only one to catch on.
That was because he could smell the difference between Nale and Elan.

[Kish]

It probably has something to do with the current accuracy of a clock which is stopped at KILL.

[137beth]

It's more likely that the only party member that knows how vampirism works is Durkon, and he's not in a position to explain it.

Vaarsuvius might be able to make the Knowledge (Religion) check... maybe. The reason Belkar is so adamant that Durkon isn;t Durkon is he over heard the conversation between Malak and Durkon during their fight.

But with no Wisdom, Charisma, or Intelligence to speak of he can't put into words adequately so comes off as "more Belkar shenanigans"... when he's actually trying to be a team player.

I really thought there was a Giant quote where he said (almost?) no one knows how vampires work, so no one in the order "should" know. Let's see if I can find it...

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I really thought there was a Giant quote where he said (almost?) no one knows how vampires work, so no one in the order "should" know. Let's see if I can find it...

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?339912-Vampire-question-settled&p=17327934&viewfull=1#post17327934) ya go! (Fifth paragraph)

[evileeyore]

I really thought there was a Giant quote where he said (almost?) no one knows how vampires work, so no one in the order "should" know. Let's see if I can find it...
Welcome to ten posts ago.

[LordRahl6]

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?339912-Vampire-question-settled&p=17327934&viewfull=1#post17327934) ya go! (Fifth paragraph)

Which leads to a perplexing question of when the rest of the party discover Belkar is telling the truth, how are they going to remove the problem of the HPoH? If the knowledge of vampires is so rare, even their existence, then how does one going about defeating them? Admittedly, they took down Malack, but that was more luck than anything else. Do they need the assistance of someone whose specialty isn't liches?:smallconfused:

[Bulldog Psion]

Durk Malackssen bit Belkar.

The HPoH is apparently the same creature.

Belkar doesn't forgive and forget. Once an enemy, always an enemy.

As simple as that.

[Keltest]

Which leads to a perplexing question of when the rest of the party discover Belkar is telling the truth, how are they going to remove the problem of the HPoH? If the knowledge of vampires is so rare, even their existence, then how does one going about defeating them? Admittedly, they took down Malack, but that was more luck than anything else. Do they need the assistance of someone whose specialty isn't liches?:smallconfused:

The quote is specifically about the nature of how vampires work in relation to souls. While its possible they will still need advice on how to kill him, that knowledge would be far more common.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

The quote is specifically about the nature of how vampires work in relation to souls. While its possible they will still need advice on how to kill him, that knowledge would be far more common.

Right, it specifically says "detailed internal level" (emphasis mine). The fact that a vampire can be killed by exposing it to direct sunlight is far more common knowledge than the fact that vampires are really negative energy spirits that posses bodies that have been vampirized.

[LordRahl6]

Right, it specifically says "detailed internal level" (emphasis mine). The fact that a vampire can be killed by exposing it to direct sunlight is far more common knowledge than the fact that vampires are really negative energy spirits that posses bodies that have been vampirized.

Called it on the "Evil Recognizes Evil" issue, though I love the method by which it comes about.Apparently Belklar originated this trick on some scale in the story. Whether he's merely talking about the OotSers or something larger I'm not sure.:smallcool:

Also in the new strip, #957, Belkar says that he has been becoming rather adept at exterminating undead. However, these are the normal everyday variety so I would take what Belkar says with a grain of salt.:smallwink:

Edit: Belkar may indeed have taken favored enemy Undead at this point, but given the Giant's comments on Vampirism his bonus most likely will be in a general sense. Also given his own nature as a psychopath, any additional knowledge directly relating to vampires will be limited to destroying them.:smallwink:

[Kish]

"You don't think I can tell when someone's faking cooperation to slide under Roy's nose? I invented that scam!"

I see no ambiguity.

[SlashDash]

Also in the new strip, #957, Belkar says that he has been becoming rather adept at exterminating undead. However, these are the normal everyday variety so I would take what Belkar says with a grain of salt.:smallwink:

As Belkar was supposed to add a Favorite Enemy group at some point, I think it's fair to assume he simply added Undead at some point.

Though it's still hardly a big deal and he clearly isn't any match for Durkon anymore than he was for Malky.