Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated

[arnoldrew]

I'm thinking of making an awakened cat (i.e. housecat) as a PC. At first I was going to go with Barbarian, just 'cause that would be cool, but now I'm starting to think along the lines of Rogue, because of all the Hide and Move silently bonuses. How does Sneak Attack work for tiny creatures? What about making him a Monk? I guess I could always just make him a spellcaster, especialy a Druid, but that kind of goes against the charm of playing an intentionally nerfed character if I can just turn into a Dire Ape. Any suggestions?

Here's the base stats for a cat:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/cat.htm

[Black Swan]

There are a couple of ways to go with this.

You could go spellcaster, in which case tiny size wouldn't be all that bad because you wouldn't want to do hand to hand and you'd be harder to hit. Another route is a rogue or bard based on Puss 'n Boots. Really cunning, smart, tricky, etc.

If you're looking at something like barb or monk, just make sure that playing a char not optimized for combat isn't going to annoy the rest of the party. Chars who don't pull their weight in combat can get annoying fast.

[oriong]

An awakened cat is far from nerfed (unless you do play the fighter/barbarian), they're overpowered.

Cats (and their like) are either insanely weak (for straight combat classes) or they're insanely overpowered (for just about anything else). This makes it pretty much impossible to set a decent LA for them.

[Dhavaer]

I really wanted to play an awakened goldfish psion at one point. It'd swim in a bowl carried by another PC. Psion would likely be a decent idea for a cat, because your enemies would never know that it was Fluffy who just Ego Whipped them.

[oriong]

ouch, cat psion. That would give any DM nightmares.

[arnoldrew]

I really wanted to play an awakened goldfish psion at one point. It'd swim in a bowl carried by another PC. Psion would likely be a decent idea for a cat, because your enemies would never know that it was Fluffy who just Ego Whipped them.

That...wow. That pretty much rocks. What if you got a magic goldfish bowl that could fly?

[Dhavaer]

That...wow. That pretty much rocks. What if you got a magic goldfish bowl that could fly?

That would be even more awesome.

[Dareon]

Just remember that as a Tiny creature, you have no natural reach and need to enter a target's square to make melee attacks of any kind. You'll be provoking AoOs like crazy, so Mobility is nearly a must-have.

Weapons will also be a problem. I'd recommend either Improved Natural Attack for your claws or a mouthpick weapon enchantment from Lords of Madness. I think there's some magic items in Savage Species that would let you use regular weapons (Sized appropriately, of course). Gloves, if memory serves.

If you want to play a Druid, you can play off the Halfling Druid substitution levels in Races of the Wild, get your DM to work with you, and make it so you can only turn into respectively smaller forms with wild shape. For instance, when you first get wild shape, you could turn into Tiny and Diminutive creatures only. This would mean your maximum size would be a Medium creature at 15th level.

Personally, I'd recommend a caster class rather than a melee class. If you're only using core, go for a sorcerer rather than a wizard, because you may have a distinctly hard time accessing your spellbook at times. Cleric would also work.

[HeinleinFan]

I'd agree with oriong - to make an effective character, you probably don't want to be a fighter, barbarian, monk, ranger, templar or paladin, but most of the other classes would work all right. If you're looking for a spy character, a rogue, Urban Ranger or bard might work; if you want sheer insanity, a spellcaster. (Black cat sorcerer? Hmm . . . *scribbles down on To Do List*)

Truth in advertising: I have played an Awakened Small Dog Druid named Carcharoth (and hooray for anyone at all who understands that name), and it was fun to see the reactions of NPC evildoers who found themselves getting smushed by a small shepherd-ish doggie. My main character also has two awakened guard dogs, although at high levels they're pretty useless in a fight.

[Jack Mann]

That would be even more awesome.

Make it a crystal goldfish bowl. A psicrystal.

[Jade_Tarem]

Advice: be male.

Otherwise someone is gonna bring up a physics question and *BAM* - there goes the character you worked so hard on.

[arnoldrew]

Make it a crystal goldfish bowl. A psicrystal.

That idea is crafted of pure awesome.

[Fhaolan]

You're going to run into the difficulty of no hands. The easiest way around this is a magical item with Mage Hand.

The DM may not allow you to play a spellcaster, or ban you from casting any spell with somantic components. Some DMs will allow it, but some won't. RAW is unclear on the matter.

As the party goes up levels, you will become increasingly ineffective in melee combat, due to the limited ways of you getting magical attack items, lack of effective reach leading to AoOs, and with no ability to use a ranged weapon.

Sneak attacks may or may not work effectively, depending on DM ruling. You technically can't flank because you have to be in the same square as your opponent to hit them (that reach issue again). That limits the sneak attack opportunities.

Because of all the DM rulings needed, you should probably ask the DM about some of these technicalities before deciding on a class. Here is my evaluation so far:

Fighter: There's a limited number of feats that can actually help with natural weapons, so this is somewhat sub-par.

Ranger: The fighting style class feature isn't going to help you at all, unless the DM allows a variant style that will help with your natural weapons. As a partial spellcaster, if there are limitations on spellcasting, this feature becomes useless.

Paladin: I think this would be just so silly/cool. I can't evaluate it properly because every time I think of it, I laugh too hard.

Barbarian: Rage is good, and the increased base speed is good. If the problems with melee doesn't deter you, this might work.

Cleric: Possible spellcaster issues, as mentioned above. The cleric's main advantage of being a tank + full spellcaster doesn't really apply here, so all you'll get out of it is a full divine spellcaster. Nothing to sneeze at, but it won't be CoDzilla.

Druid: Wildshape becomes interesting, as you need to find approprate sized creatures to wildshape into. This changes the balance of the class considerably, and may deter you from it. Otherwise, it's a full spellcaster and may be affected by the spellcaster limitations above.

Wizard: Spellcaster limitations possible. The DM may also restrict you to spells you research yourself, as 'humanoid' spells from found spellbooks may not work properly. If this is true, Wizard is not a good class at all for you.

Sorcerer: Spellcaster limitations, as always, but at least you don't have to deal with the spell research issue that Wizards might have.

Rogue: Lack of flanking hurts this class a lot, and lack of hands pretty much elminates a lot of skills, so without DM rulings to aleivate that, this one hurts.

Bard: No hands mean a lot of skills become pointless, all musical instruments require hands of some kind, so unless the DM allows vocalization to replace musical instruments, again, not a good choice.

Monk: I'm not sure about this one. I'm vaguely aware of a natural weapons/flurry issue, but I've not looked into the issue before so I can't comment on that. Otherwise, it does compensate somewhat for the lack of magic armor/weapons you're going to run into. Again, combat at your size is going to be a problem no matter what the class, so this might be one of the viable combat classes for you.

Psionics: I don't have the new 3.5 version of the psionics classes, so I can't evaluate these ones properly.

[Mewtarthio]

An awakened cat is far from nerfed (unless you do play the fighter/barbarian), they're overpowered.

Cats (and their like) are either insanely weak (for straight combat classes) or they're insanely overpowered (for just about anything else). This makes it pretty much impossible to set a decent LA for them.

Treat it like a Natural Werecat (applied to any LA 0 Small race). That's LA +3, no racial HD. This guy gets two extra racial HD and loses his ability to shift into any form except animal form, the Iron Will feat, the Scent ability, the Curse of Lycanthropy ability, the DR 10/silver, and probably a couple of other things I'm overlooking. He gains the ability to talk in animal form. If an Awakened Cat is overpowered, then lycanthropes (that is, ones with Small or Tiny base creatures) must be absolutely godlike. In actuality, the racial HD and any LA he gets stuck with (as I pointed out above, considering him anywhere above ECL 3 is probably unfair, and he can't go below ECL 2) will harm his spellcasting/manifesting abilities, and his fighting abilities will be harmed by everything else about a cat (no reach, no items, abysmal strength, etc).

[oriong]

I do think that a werecat is overpowered. It's also not legal unless you're a halfling, but yes a werecat would be abusive. Which shouldn't be shocking since the lycanthrope template doesn't differentiate between different types of animals in the slightest.

The problem with a cat is that they are too unbalanced to be viable player characters, and note, I'm not talking about 'unbalanced' in terms of abuse here, I'm talking a bit more literally. Their abilities are incredibly tilted. Cats have reached a point where their weaknesses are no longer weaknesses simply because they have no option but to pick a class where these weaknesses don't matter, and most classes which would ignore the weaknesses are also ones that benefit most from the cat's strengths. The strength score, the reach, this doesn't actually matter because anyone playing a cat (who isn't simply looking to screw themselves) will almost never engage in 'traditional' melee combat. (cat's can wear almost any magical items humans can by the way, with a bit of modification at worst).

The problem also comes up with what LA to give the creature since it's so vastly weighed towards a handful of classes, while being incredibly poor at every other class. Most LA ratings will make the cat worthless, or too powerful.

[JackMage666]

If you DM has a problem with a spellcaster's somatic components, there's a feat - Surrogate Spellcasting - In Savage Species that will fix it. You need a 13 Wis, I think, and it allows you to substitute any natural movement for somatic components. I pretty sure that's how it works, but I'm not near my books right now, so I can't guarantee it.

I think taking a natural Werecat's LA is too high. A +3 is too high, considering the fact that a Werecat also gets all the things you pointed out (change shape, Iron Will, Damage Reduction, Curse of Lycanthropy, Wis bonus, ect.) As well, unlike a Werecat, the Awaken spell gives you 2 Animal HD, which are about as useful as Humanoid HD. I'd says a +1 or +2, leaning more towards +1, considering the fact that you are taking HD as well, which will reduce your caster level if you go for a caster, the races best option.

[Amphimir Míriel]

I'm thinking of making an awakened cat (i.e. housecat) as a PC. At first I was going to go with Barbarian, just 'cause that would be cool, but now I'm starting to think along the lines of Rogue, because of all the Hide and Move silently bonuses. How does Sneak Attack work for tiny creatures? What about making him a Monk? I guess I could always just make him a spellcaster, especialy a Druid, but that kind of goes against the charm of playing an intentionally nerfed character if I can just turn into a Dire Ape. Any suggestions?

Here's the base stats for a cat:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/cat.htm

Have you read about Greebo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greebo)?

Pure evil Rogue/Barbarian in a small package, with the added protection of a powerful witch that insists (against all evidence) that he is "just a big softie, just shoo him off if he's being a bother!"

[Fax Celestis]

You could try an awakened Tressym instead of a housecat. You get wings!

I had an idea once to play an awakened tressym duskblade. It'd be fun.

[Artanis]

I really wanted to play an awakened goldfish psion at one point. It'd swim in a bowl carried by another PC. Psion would likely be a decent idea for a cat, because your enemies would never know that it was Fluffy who just Ego Whipped them.
That would be awesome!

"That cat...it's just...just staring at me. Just sitting and staring. With those cruel, unblinking eyes! IT'S LIKE THEY'RE LOOKING STRAIGHT INTO MY MIND!"
"I am in your mind."
"AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!"

[Quezovercoatl]

Psion is probably the way to go. Like a spellcaster your tiny size becomes much less of a problem but unlike a spellcaster you wouldn’t have to worry about trying to cast somatic components with paws.

[Caelestion]

The three racial HD are going to blow for any spell-caster, it has to be said. The LA should be +1 or +2 at the very most. As for classes, definitely go with Psion :)

Edit: Apply the Winged template and stick with base LA+0. That way, you have 3 HD and +2 LA overall.

[Josh Inno]

I've got to say, my main advice was going to be to go the puss in boots rout, but that's already been covered.

My main concern with that, though, is if you can manage to hold the sword correctly.

[Saithis Bladewing]

Advice: be male.

Otherwise someone is gonna bring up a physics question and *BAM* - there goes the character you worked so hard on.

I really want to stab you for that mental image.

[Caelestion]

"Route", pronounced "root" if you're not American. It's a French word.

Winged Cat (Felis avian)
-8 Str, +8 Dex, +4 Wis. (Assumes 10s on 3d6 Int and 7+1d3 Cha).
Size/Type: Tiny Magical Beast (augmented animal).
Speed: 30 ft. land speed, Fly 50 ft. (Perfect).
Special Qualities: Lowlight vision and scent.
Racial Hit Dice: Its three levels of animal, which grant 3d8 hp, +2 BAB and base saves of Fort +3, Ref +3 and Will +1.
Racial Skills: Its three animal levels grant 6x (2 + Int bonus) skill points. Its class skills are Balance, Hide, Climb, Jump, Listen, Move Silently and Spot.
Racial Feats: Its three animals levels grant it two feats.
A Winged Cat has a +4 racial bonus to Climb, Hide and Move Silently checks and a +8 racial bonus on Balance and Jump checks. In tall grass or heavy undergrowth, the Hide bonus rises to +8.
A Winged Cat uses its Dexterity instead of their Strength for Climb and Jump checks.
Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus Languages: Auran, Elven, Sylvan.
Favoured Class: Ranger.
Level Adjustment: +2. With its 3 racial HD and its LA +2, Winged Cats have a base ECL of 5.