Gestalt Musings, ToB + MoI

[CryptbornAkryea]

Just throwing ideas at the wall to see what sticks.

pros and cons of warblade//totemist?
build ideas?

I'm thinking a focus on Tiger Claw...

Truly feral kung-fu

[Phelix-Mu]

Small flavor conflict, with small Int-focus in warblade, while totemist is illiterate. I'd drop that in a heartbeat, though, and go for your idea. Maybe the warblade has an ascetic flavor, having trained deep in an ancestral forest, communing with spirits of elders, learning the secrets of chakra binding from ghosts of the past. Insert training montage from kung-fu movie or anime, to taste.

Because gestalt allows you to cherrypick the best of each class, you can pretty much mix-and-match flavor, to a certain extent. If you are playing with a favorable DM, you might even restyle the various cosmetics of the chakra-binding to just be a special school of blade-magic, designed to allow a person to connect to some inner beast and channel animalistic kung-fu. This might avoid the glowy-blue stuff, if that's not your thing (it was always highly irritating to me...the fluff for MoI always was a turnoff for me, despite being a very cool and adaptable mechanic).

[WhamBamSam]

In a sense, mixing them is a bit problematic, as they're both somewhat "active" subsystems and you only get so many actions per turn and also in the sense that a lot of the passive boosts from Totemists are extra natural attacks that aren't as useful when you're using maneuvers as opposed to full attacking.

Still, there is one big thing that Warblades can get easily that synergizes well with having lots and lots of natural attacks. You can charge up Stormguard Warrior to deal lots and lots of damage. The Tiger Claw boosts help as well.

Beyond that, you'll want to be able to pick up bits of this and that to cover defenses, senses, mobility, action economy, etc. Being able to draw from soulmelds and maneuvers should help in that regard.

[PsyBomb]

ToB usually makes an awesome "Active" side, and MoI is usually great for "Passive". Put it together, and you have a recipe for rapid success. These two are no exception, when combined they aren't illiterate and give a woodlands feel, while giving tons of skill bonuses and random utility.

It can go the other way, too, if you make a Totem Charger build with Boost/Stance/Counter support on the Warblade side (such as IHS). Just remember that reallocation competes for your Swift action.

[CryptbornAkryea]

Aside from the huge fluff differences, would it be better to switch out totemist in favor of incarnate?

[Phelix-Mu]

Aside from the huge fluff differences, would it be better to switch out totemist in favor of incarnate?

That would definitely move your chakra-binding away from natural attacks and into passive buffs and utility. That might work better if you are focusing on standard action strikes with your warblade, which won't always work well with the half-dozen natural attacks of the totemist, which require full attacking (or benefit most from full attacking).

In a sense, the gestalt of warblade/incarnate might work a little better. I'm really not sure, but I think that would be more in line with classic gestalt logic.

[Red Fel]

The big benefit of Warblade and Totemist together is having a slew of natural weapons + Punishing Stance + Stormguard Warrior. Throw on Pounce and you're just being cruel.

That said? You can do that with a dip, rather than a gestalt. In a gestalt, you get Warblade's full BAB instead of Totemists's 3/4, which is nice; you also get Warblade's Fort and Totemists's Ref, which is nice. But generally speaking, Warblades - like many melees - are going to be somewhat gear dependent, and Incarnum in general is a bit of a challenge in that regard. Binding soulmelds to the totem chakra is easy, and there are some slots you're unlikely to use for something important, but I don't see you maximizing the use of Totemist in this build.

Really, the only reason to gestalt these classes rather than simply dipping Totemist is that you really, really want that Warblade capstone. Otherwise, take 2-6 levels of Totemist and Warblade for the rest. If you want, gestalt it with Factotum or something.

Now, with regard to Incarnate... Incarnate tends to hurt melee classes more than Totemist does, because there is greater overlap with magic slots when it comes to soulbinds. A Totemist can use the totem chakra, and a few infrequently-used slots, for his binds; an Incarnate is probably going to end up using slots in which you might want to keep real magic items. And Warblades, like many melees, tend to be more item-dependent.

That said, there are benefits. Warblade's full BAB is definitely superior to Incarnate's 1/2. Incarnate's Will save is valuable. And while taking further levels of Totemist tends to be a bit of a lackluster affair, there are more tangible benefits to taking Incarnate levels (superior essentia progression, Incarnum Radiance ability).

All that considered... Incarnate, like Totemist, strikes me as more of a dip for this build. Unless.

Look in my sig. Take a peek at the handbook. Now imagine a Warblade 20// Incarnate 10/ Ironsoul Forgemaster 10. Imagine what you could do with those Warblade maneuvers when your weapon can trigger a daze effect. Imagine being able to craft your own personalized gear, and inflate it with your essentia abilities. Realize that, as an Incarnate 10/ Forgemaster 10, you will be shaping soulmelds, binding soulmelds, and possessed of the essentia capacity as an Incarnate 19. On the other side of the build, you have full Warblade progression of maneuvers, along with that glorious capstone.

Consider.

[CryptbornAkryea]

I have actually read and enjoyed your handbook, Red Fel. A great read and plenty to work with.

You're right, that combination is pretty impressive

[Irk]

I've been musing over a combo involving Manticore Belt + Ranged Pin and Crushing Weight of the Mountain for 3d6 + 1.5(str) on every spine. Combine with Raging Mongoose and Time Stands Still as well as Sighting Gloves for increased accuracy and damage.

Incarnate Weapon is generally good as it takes a move action to charge up, most strikes are standard actions.

If Astral Vambraces (for the slam attack trip) work with Combat Rhythm, that could be good.

As an aside, would Mighty Throw and the like be able to be triggered off one of the touch attacks in combat rhythm. It is a separate effect, so it could still deal damage if it worked. That could be cool, as I could see someone setting up a Combat Rhythm + Mighty Throw + Dungeoncrasher + Shock Trooper + Astral Vambraces + Improved Trip combo, just tripping over and over, getting more and more attacks to charge Stormguard Warrior.

Also, I think that some AoO builds should take Stormguard Warrior. Stormguard Warrior on your own turn, AoOs into Stormguard Warrior on their turn, it all adds up, then all of that into a Time Stands Still + Raging Mongoose + Girallon Arms. Could be pretty neat-o. That's, what, 22 attacks assuming +16 BaB, which, assuming maybe 3 AoOs (it could really be around six, but whatever), that could be +35 on your turn, +15 on their turn, and then +1100 extra damage on you actual attack, without taking into consideration things like Power Attack, Lightning Gauntlets, Totem Avatar, and Heart of Fire. Those could all be generating another 5d6+5d4+5+10 on the first attack and 5d4+5+10 on subsequent attacks for a total of 5d6+110d4+330 extra damage. Girallon Arms deals 1d4, so total damage would be 5d6+132d4+1430, or an average of 1777.5 damage on every other turn.

I really like combining these systems though, and if I had my books here, I would try to capitalize more on the Passive + Active nature of combining the systems, but for now I'll stick with single melee.

[CryptbornAkryea]

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1777.5
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bloody hell