Core only campaign (3.5)

[D4rkh0rus]

I know theres a few threads on this, And im giving them a read after posting this.
The fact is, Im gonna enter an almost core (PH1, PH2 and base classes from complete warrior) campaign. I am at a loss as to what to make, since I always favour the factotum above all in terms of martial classes, and tend to stray from magic. Although im willing to give anything with a decent amount of skill points a go.

What Im basically asking, what are the more versatile classes outside of combat in a core only enviroment?

Thanks for reading/answering :P

[Rubik]

What Im basically asking, what are the more versatile classes outside of combat in a core only enviroment?T3 and above, generally, which means you're really limited if you don't want spellcasters, since there's not much that's versatile but mundane, especially given your resources.

Why not try out a druid?

[D4rkh0rus]

oh, i guess its a bit hard to understand, I tend to stay away from casters when in a "all books allowed" setting, but in core im willing to try anything which would be able to keep me versatile.

Also, how good is a druid at hiding/sneaking past stuff? (like which core monsters gain the good bonuses and stuff?)

[Rubik]

Also, how good is a druid at hiding/sneaking past stuff? (like which core monsters gain the good bonuses and stuff?)Given the versatility of wild shape, sneaking places should be easy. Who pays attention to a pigeon roosting under the eaves, or to the cat roaming the halls? Keep in mind that in most campaign settings, it's basically neo-Dark Ages, and most places will keep cats and dogs roaming about to keep rats down.

[Drake2009]

Druids can be fun, and you can get an animal companion at first level which helps with the fights, and you will have some awesome spells too. I'm not so NEW to dnd but not a vet either, been playing for a couple of years and thats off and on. I like playing wizards, and my previous Paladin kicked butt to! Seeing how you know the rules and are obviously profecient, I'd go with the druid, maybe multiclass to rogue for the sneak attacks?

[3drinks]

Sounds like you want to be a Bard. 6 + Int Mod skills, supportive abilities, party face capabilities, and strong spells that aren't about overt damage capabilities. And hey, they have some mild fighting ability.

[eggynack]

I'd go with the druid, maybe multiclass to rogue for the sneak attacks?
Nah, straight druid all the way. Some prestige class options open up if you move outside of core, but in core, there is no druid build more potent than druid 20.

[D4rkh0rus]

3drinks, yes. that would be awesome... but I'm limited to core only spell selection too...


But yea everyone, Im liking the idea of the druid, its gonna be a city campaign probably, and I might be able to convince my DM to let me trade stuff for the city benefits from cityscape web enhancement, if he allows it, would trading the animal companion for a familiar be any good? or would it be a bad idea?

for core, other than natural spell and skill focus (basketweaving) what other good feats can I take? what forms are solid?

[Kraken]

You wouldn't even need to necessarily ask for any of the city-based ACFs. Sure, I'm sure you could find something useful in exchange for woodland stride and so forth, but your animal companion, spellcasting, and wildshape are all more than enough to get by just fine in a city. If you do go looking to trade out class features, don't underestimate wild empathy before trading it out. Cities are filled with stray animal, and wild empathy+handle animal can turn them into useful tools. For an animal companion, I'd opt for a riding dog. They're good in combat, and perfectly suited to being a city companion.

[eggynack]

But yea everyone, Im liking the idea of the druid, its gonna be a city campaign probably, and I might be able to convince my DM to let me trade stuff for the city benefits from cityscape web enhancement, if he allows it, would trading the animal companion for a familiar be any good? or would it be a bad idea?
It's alright in the late game, or if you don't plan to progress the feature much, but I'd usually just stick to the companion. Just having a target for spells means a lot. Cityscape ACF's are pretty sweet though. Iron constitution is amazing, and stuff like voice of the city and skilled city dweller is seriously cool.


for core, other than natural spell and skill focus (basketweaving) what other good feats can I take? what forms are solid?
There's not a massive amount of feats, though you have options. Extend spell is decent, though not great, craft wondrous is the same, and augment summoning is a core classic for a reason. As for forms, the guidelines in core are pretty similar to those outside core. Dinosaurs, big cats, and non-black bears for combat (the thing doesn't even get improved grab), dire bat for flight/defense when you get it, or a bird form when you don't, and most other stuff is dependent on situation (aquatic forms, for instance).

[Rubik]

Since it's a city-based campaign, petition the city government to "beautify" the place with parks (which your druid uses to teach the city folks about the beauty of the natural world), and offer to do so for a reasonable fee and some donated land throughout the city. Make sure your Cha is decent, and encourage increased tourism to make money for the city's residents (which translates to increased revenue for the city), with the "beautification" project being the centerfold for the tourism department. Lobby for laws to protect the newly created parks (and, consequently, you and your animal friends). You should even encourage a naturist-type zoo, where reasonably safe animals are kept in a somewhat natural environment, but at the same time are kept separate from the populace by cleverly designed landscaping and architecture. (See modern zoos for details.)

[D4rkh0rus]

Since it's a city-based campaign, petition the city government to "beautify" the place with parks (which your druid uses to teach the city folks about the beauty of the natural world), and offer to do so for a reasonable fee and some donated land throughout the city. Make sure your Cha is decent, and encourage increased tourism to make money for the city's residents (which translates to increased revenue for the city), with the "beautification" project being the centerfold for the tourism department. Lobby for laws to protect the newly created parks (and, consequently, you and your animal friends). You should even encourage a naturist-type zoo, where reasonably safe animals are kept in a somewhat natural environment, but at the same time are kept separate from the populace by cleverly designed landscaping and architecture. (See modern zoos for details.)

Or I could slaughter the human pests and build my own animal empire, where the powerful rule and the weak cower. a place were only similarly levelled wizards and clerics stand a chance against me, high druidic overlord of new druidia.

derp.


what are some ways to obtain hide and move silently as class skills?

[Rubik]

Or I could slaughter the human pests and build my own animal empire, where the powerful rule and the weak cower. a place were only similarly levelled wizards and clerics stand a chance against me, high druidic overlord of new druidia.Oh dear...


what are some ways to obtain hide and move silently as class skills?The only two ways I remember off-hand are to take a dip in a class with them as class skills and the Able Learner feat, and to take levels in human paragon.

[eggynack]

The only two ways I remember off-hand are to take a dip in a class with them as class skills and the Able Learner feat, and to take levels in human paragon.
Well, if we're looking out of core for solutions, then both nightbringer initiate (FoE, 147) and halfling druid substitution levels (RotW, 157) open up as options. If we're still stuck in mostly core, I gots nothing.

[D4rkh0rus]

other than a druid, what else is there, by the way?

[eggynack]

other than a druid, what else is there, by the way?
As was noted above, if you want a variety of things to do, you're probably going to want something tier 3 or above. That means wizard, cleric, sorcerer, bard, beguiler, or duskblade in your book range. Any of those would work reasonably well.

[Angelalex242]

Now now, the man said Core only.

So your choices are Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Sorcerer, Bard.

...Or Barbarian, Ranger, Rogue, Fighter, Paladin, Monk.

Much as I like Paladin, it's not a great idea in core. Pal desperately wants prestige classes and Core doesn't have any.

Most of the good Pal feats are outside of Core too.

Oh, wait. Almost Core, which is PH2 and Complete Warrior included. I see.

[Vogonjeltz]

I know theres a few threads on this, And im giving them a read after posting this.
The fact is, Im gonna enter an almost core (PH1, PH2 and base classes from complete warrior) campaign. I am at a loss as to what to make, since I always favour the factotum above all in terms of martial classes, and tend to stray from magic. Although im willing to give anything with a decent amount of skill points a go.

What Im basically asking, what are the more versatile classes outside of combat in a core only enviroment?

Thanks for reading/answering :P

Why not go Rogue? It's the archetype the Factotum is based off of.

[137beth]

Nah, straight druid all the way. Some prestige class options open up if you move outside of core, but in core, there is no druid build more potent than druid 20.

Fixed for ya:smalltongue:
(assuming a majority of the game is spent below 17th level, anyways).


Why not go Rogue? It's the archetype the Factotum is based off of.

Because he is looking for versatility, and particularly out-of-combat versatility. That pretty much rules out rogues, and any other tier 4 class.

[Vogonjeltz]

Fixed for ya:smalltongue:
(assuming a majority of the game is spent below 17th level, anyways).



Because he is looking for versatility, and particularly out-of-combat versatility. That pretty much rules out rogues, and any other tier 4 class.

Rogues are incredibly versatile out of combat. And thanks to having UMD as a class skill, they can use any magic item a tier 1 can (effectively giving them any powers of a tier 1 if they so desire)

[Brookshw]

Rogues are incredibly versatile out of combat. And thanks to having UMD as a class skill, they can use any magic item a tier 1 can (effectively giving them any powers of a tier 1 if they so desire)

Does require a lot of cash though.

Bard's fun, you won't get as much bang for your buck as you would outside of core but the spell list is decent and combined with their skills you'll have plenty to keep you busy.

[Vogonjeltz]

Does require a lot of cash though.

Bard's fun, you won't get as much bang for your buck as you would outside of core but the spell list is decent and combined with their skills you'll have plenty to keep you busy.

True, if money is tight they're just restricted to using the massive skill list and most skill points in the game.

[Ivanhoe]

I'd second the suggestions of rogue and bard, since they are better imo in near-core city campaigns than a druid.

Or, better yet, the PHB2 beguiler: rogue-ish skill list, intelligence as main stat, 6 skill points/lvl, light armor, d6, up to 9th level spontaneous casting with city-fitting spells - what is not to like? :smallsmile:

[PaucaTerrorem]

Screw that noise. Sewer Druid! Dire Rat companion. Summon swarms of vermin.

[HammeredWharf]

Arcane Trickster is a pretty good rogue/wizard hybrid. It's no Unseen Seer, but is pretty good as a social skillmonkey, which is something a druid isn't great at. Beguiler and bard are the other two decent options, but beguilers are very specialized and bards aren't great in Core.

[D4rkh0rus]

Hmm, Yea, I think I'm gonna go druid. I want versatility, and the druid offers that. They even get diplomacy as a class skill.

[ace rooster]

If UA is allowed then a cloistered cleric (or an ordinary cleric) with the magic and trickery domains could be fun. 6+int skills, with hide, bluff, and disguise as class skills, as well as being able to use arcane scrolls and wands. A dip in rogue for trapfinding and ranks in search and the like and you have a decent skill monkey. Your bab would truely tank, but as an almost full caster that is less important. A decent cha score would also make turning undead better, and you could be a pretty good face.

[nedz]

2nding the Beguiler, especially for city game. 6+ Skill points, excellent spells which are Int based — so more skill points.
It's hard to do damage, and the selection of books stops most of the standard tricks, but it should be OK.

[Threadnaught]

Just go straight Druid.

If Races of the Dragon is allowed, I'm a big fan of Dragonborn Dragonwrought Kobold for Wisdom based Casters.