I got a demiplane! - now what?

[With a box]

few ideas which I have now:
1. build a fortress there : boring and teleport(5th) vs plane shift(7th)?:smalleek:
2. make it fastword and play a tiny (1/50?) simworld in it (set a power limit to E6 (if DM accept that)) as if I'm a god (and collect worshippers for later):smalltongue:
3. sell it (to who?)

Do you have better idea of useage for it?

[Gildedragon]

Make it a base of operations
make it attuned to your magic
make it a fast healing plane
have it on fast time so you can have a dedicated wright craft items faster

[Dorian Gray]

Store your body there and Astral Shift to participate in the real world. Don't forget to layer the entire area with every abjuration (and certain transmutations, conjurations, and evocations) known to man. Build a few constructs, as well.

If you have land left over, do whatever you want- you're a powerful wizard! Make a new version of the Owlbear, but with the weak parts cut out (which would just be a bear, I guess)! Breed a dragon with a gelatinous cube and then apply the half-golem construct to it! Start making Ikea Tarrasques! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?20160-The-Ikea-Tarrasque-Version-2-0)

[Jack_Simth]

few ideas which I have now:
1. build a fortress there : boring and teleport(5th) vs plane shift(7th)?:smalleek:
2. make it fastword and play a tiny (1/50?) simworld in it (set a power limit to E6 (if DM accept that)) as if I'm a god (and collect worshippers for later):smalltongue:
3. sell it (to who?)

Do you have better idea of useage for it?

Congratulations! You are now immune to your enemies using Gate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gate.htm) in combat thanks to a little-known clause in the spell:
Deities and other beings who rule a planar realm can prevent a gate from opening in their presence or personal demesnes if they so desire. (Emphasis added)

That actually gets surprisingly useful at higher levels.

[Phelix-Mu]

Congratulations! You are now immune to your enemies using Gate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gate.htm) in combat thanks to a little-known clause in the spell: (Emphasis added)

That actually gets surprisingly useful at higher levels.

Say what? That's not original to the PHB. Was that clause added in subsequent errata or the Rules Compendium? All the PHB says is the relatively meaningless clause against gating "unique beings," a totally undefined term in 3e.

[torrasque666]

If its made through Genesis there's actually not much you really can do that some are suggesting(mostly the planar traits stuff) as Genesis specifies only certain factors of the demiplane.
factors such as atmosphere, water, temperature, and the general shape of the terrain

It says nothing about traits such as magic affinity, time, gravity, and other such things that some are talking about. It doesn't even specify that you are the ruler of said plane as the one guy mentioned.

Really, Dorian's the only one whose mentioned anything possible through Genesis. And before Wish/Miracle is mentioned, I do believe redefining planar traits would screw up reality to the point that the spell punts the caster in the face.

[Jack_Simth]

Say what? That's not original to the PHB. Was that clause added in subsequent errata or the Rules Compendium? All the PHB says is the relatively meaningless clause against gating "unique beings," a totally undefined term in 3e.
It's technically part of the Planar Travel section, but is in both my 3.5 and my brother's 3.0 copy of the PHB.

[Vogonjeltz]

Congratulations! You are now immune to your enemies using Gate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gate.htm) in combat thanks to a little-known clause in the spell: (Emphasis added)

That actually gets surprisingly useful at higher levels.

Strictly speaking is a demiplane on the ethereal plane actual a realm per se? Isn't it just a subset of the larger plane that it's a part of, which the player doesn't actually rule.

[Phelix-Mu]

If its made through Genesis there's actually not much you really can do that some are suggesting(mostly the planar traits stuff) as Genesis specifies only certain factors of the demiplane.

[/FONT][/COLOR]It says nothing about traits such as magic affinity, time, gravity, and other such things that some are talking about. It doesn't even specify that you are the ruler of said plane as the one guy mentioned.

Really, Dorian's the only one whose mentioned anything possible through Genesis. And before Wish/Miracle is mentioned, I do believe redefining planar traits would screw up reality to the point that the spell punts the caster in the face.

Conceivably, gravity might be a "visible feature" or part of the terrain (as irregular gravity totally shapes the possible terrains that can be formed). But I totally agree about time traits and magic traits. Those seem to be (and should be) outside the scope of genesis.

Also note that genesis originally appeared as an optional spell in the Epic Level Handbook for DMs that wanted to reward pcs with their own extraplanar domains. It shouldn't be considered a standard fare spell for anything other than TO; a DM that introduces this spell dramatically alters the tenor of the campaign, and opens very plot-significant doors.

In fact, unless the DM rules creation of lava okay, heat can also be a huge problem. Although there is nowhere for heat introduced to go, neither is there any obvious source for it. And if you are constantly creating more area, maintaining heat can be a real issue (or keeping it steady). Obviously solved by liberal application of other spells.

EDIT: Jack_Simth, while I have respect for your work, it seems to me that the two clauses of the spell don't interact in the way that you are suggesting. The clause in planar travel doesn't affect the other clause about calling a creature; if it were a general prohibition, it would occur before the two clauses. It only allows the ruler of a plane to prevent the transport version of the spell from opening the transport portal inside their realm.

[Jack_Simth]

EDIT: Jack_Simth, while I have respect for your work, it seems to me that the two clauses of the spell don't interact in the way that you are suggesting. The clause in planar travel doesn't affect the other clause about calling a creature; if it were a general prohibition, it would occur before the two clauses. It only allows the ruler of a plane to prevent the transport version of the spell from opening the transport portal inside their realm.D&D has a lot of annoying things in awkward spots and a lot of cases where it's indecisive about what it does and does not call out in a given spot. Con as a nonability, for instance, makes a creature immune to all forms of ability damage... and undead are called out as being immune to ability drain in general, and ability damage to their physical scores. They're all con -, however, and are thus immune to damage to their mental ability scores as well. While the intent is *probably* that a vampire can indeed become temporarily brain-damaged if you can find a way that will affect an undead in general... the nonability of Con prevents it, and there's nothing overriding it. Enlarge Person explicitly mentions what happens when you expand someone in a too-small space... but Reduce Person doesn't mention what happens at the end of the spell in a too-small space, nor does Shrink Item mention what happens when you shrink the mundane full plate someone is currently wearing. You'd think that'd come up.

The first time I read it, I read the ability to stop gates as a general prohibition. On review, I still think it is, but I can see how another would think it not, and can't concretely point to any specific 'this is clear' bit. Not that it's going to come up very often, and Gate's strong enough that I figure the tiny circumstantial crack in it's power isn't going to hurt anything.

[With a box]

is there a way to make a plane plainshift-proof except me?

[Gemini476]

is there a way to make a plane plainshift-proof except me?

Well, if you have the ability to change the magic traits of the plane then limited magic is pretty insanely useful.
You could, say, limit it so that all spells are allowed except Conjuration (Teleportation) of levels 5, 7 and 9. Now the only way in is to either track it down in the Ethereal or Heighten a Plane Shift to either level 6 or 8. You could also Wish yourself in, but that's crazily difficult to protect against.

If you have a permanent portal that leads to the world, making it Dead Magic could also work fairly well.

There are some other options as well, IIRC, but I can't think of any useful ones of the top of my head.

[thethird]

is there a way to make a plane plainshift-proof except me?

Short answer: No

Long answer: Weirdstone (PGtF) is bypassed by Wish, but it is still your best bet.

[Derpldorf]

Depending on the campaign and your available resources, I'd say... Open up a trade company. Buy some warehouses in major trade cities in and among the various planes and safely ship your wares directly from warehouse to warehouse by gating them through your demiplane. As time goes by and your company grows add more warehouses and shift your focus more to shipping goods and expand your enterprise to domestic, international and jnterplane postal services.

Basically, be FedEx.

[Deridis]

You could create a wizard guild on it. Allowing members to rest or flee there for a modest fee. The extra wizards there could even be a layer of defense. Plus you could research spells or make monsters there without any local law getting in your business.

[Jack_Simth]

is there a way to make a plane plainshift-proof except me?

Against the normal stuff (Plane Shift, Shadow Walk, Greater Plane Shift, Gate, et cetera)? Yes, but it's expensive, and doesn't help with the transport Traveler's clause of Wish (and similar things). It also involves a 20 minute delay every time you want to go in, and about a 10% failure chance (but you'll know when it fails, and can simply try again). Also: getting in and out involves poking a two round hole in the defences.

You'll need:
The Demiplane (duh)
A Cleric-X/Dweomerkeeper-4 (or better) that can cast as a Cleric-17 (Ice Assasin and Simulacrum are very useful here).
A big block (at least 5x5x5) of Riverine (Stormwrack).
A really strong minion (again, Ice Assasin and Simulacrum are very useful here).

The setup:
Have the Dweomerkeeper use Supernatural Spell (Miracle) to get a Forbiddance on the entire demiplane except for one five-foot cube. This can be spread out over a couple of days.
Have the Dweomerkeeper use a regular Forbiddance in that one five-foot cube.
Have the Dweomerkeeper use Supernatural Spell (Miracle) to get a Mage's Private Sanctum on the entire demiplane.
You put both minions on the plane.
You put the block of Riverine into that five-foot cube that is NOT covered by Forbiddance.
You instruct the Dweomerkeeper to wait for a Sending from you. When it gets it, it Sends back to you (NOT ON THE REPLY TO THE SENDING!!! IMPORTANT!!! SECOND CASTING!!!), and if you reply to the Dweomerkeeper's Sending that you do indeed want in, it has the really strong minion move the block of Riverine.
You instruct the really strong minion to move the Riverine at the behest of the Dweomerkeeper.

How it works:
You can't go into a block of Riverine (it's a Force effect). So under normal circumstances, that 5 foot cube is covered.
Supernatural Spell (Dweomerkeeper-4 class feature) turns a spell into a supernatural ability - which means that Miracle(Forbiddance) no longer respects spell resistance (also doesn't cost anything, but with all the other expenses here, that's largely irrelevant). Thus, the rest of the plane can't be gotten into except via Wish or similar "regardless of local conditions" clauses.
Keep Greater Spell Immunity(Forbiddance) up on yourself at all times.
When YOU want to go in, you cast Sending on your Dweomerkeeper. Your Dweomerkeeper then Sends you back a confirmation request, you confirm, the strong minion moves the Riverine. Then you plane shift in, step out of that one five-foot cube, and have the really strong minion put the Riverine block back.

The reason for the Dweomerkeeper Sending you, rather than just you Sending the Dweomerkeeper: There's a spell out there that fakes the sender's ID on a Sending. If your Dweomerkeeper does not attempt to contact you under it's own power when you contact it, that puts a hole in your security. Even at that, they need to have enough SR to get through the regular Forbiddance.

So in order to get in without something like the Transport Traveler's Clause of Wish, an infiltrator would need to figure out exactly what round the hole will be opened (which takes a lot of Communes, Contact Other Planes, or similar... and a lot of DM's will rule that questions regarding the future don't really work anyway, just to keep player agency), or getting Plane Shift at will and just spamming it 24/7 until it works (Astral Deva minion).

[With a box]

I just got a idea for use wish to teleport in

" I wish that if anyone use wish to teleport in my demiplain, they will be teleported back to there home plain immediately "

it might bypass the regardless of local conditions line (it allow to teleport in)

but it will allow Spell Resistance :smallfrown:

[XmonkTad]

Make the demiplane completely out of water. When it is really small (day old) use bless water to turn the whole plane into holy water, then freeze it and cast fabricate to make it into snowman. Permanency Animate Objects on the snowman, and tell it to make an ice castle for your musical numbers. A DC 50 perform check should be high enough to get Vecna's attention. Lure him to your sentient plane. Kill him and take his stuff.

[Graypairofsocks]

The reason for the Dweomerkeeper Sending you, rather than just you Sending the Dweomerkeeper: There's a spell out there that fakes the sender's ID on a Sending. If your Dweomerkeeper does not attempt to contact you under it's own power when you contact it, that puts a hole in your security. Even at that, they need to have enough SR to get through the regular Forbiddance.

There is also a spell called Interplanar Telepathic Bond at Sor/Wiz lvl 6 from Spell Compendium(Also Known as Rary's Interplanar Telepathic Bond in the "Planar Handbook"), It functions like Rary's Telepathic Bond except it works across planes, thus it can be made permanent with Permanency.

The problem is making sure the spell doesn't get dispelled.

There is a feat called Tenacious Magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#tenaciousMagic) which makes a spell that would otherwise end to a dispel effect return in 1d4 rounds, it would arguably work against Mordenkainen's Disjunction (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesDisjunction.htm) because it(the spell) says it ends the effect as a dispel magic spell does.

The only problem is that it is an Epic Feat, the prerequisites for the feat other than that aren't so bad(Only requires 15 ranks of Spellcraft).

We can raise ones character level to Epic by infecting them with Lycanthropy(as being afflicted with lycanthropy adds the animal's HD to yours), there are lycanthropes of up to 7 HD(Dire Wereboar) in Core.

Thus we can make an epic character out of someone with at least 14 HD, which could be kind of hard.
However if we have access to Gate we can travel to another plane(Ysgard is nice) and Gate in a natural lycanthrope with at least 4 HD(if you are NOT casting from a scroll or abusing tricks to get 9th level spells earlier), you can then take the Tenacious Magic feat.

If you are forced to get the animals feats with your animal HD then you can use the Dark Chaos Shuffle Trick(Involves the 2 spells Embrace the Dark Chaos & Shun the Dark Chaos) to switch the animal feat in the epic feat slot to the one you want.

[Jack_Simth]

I just got a idea for use wish to teleport in

" I wish that if anyone use wish to teleport in my demiplain, they will be teleported back to there home plain immediately "

it might bypass the regardless of local conditions line (it allow to teleport in)

but it will allow Spell Resistance :smallfrown:
Warning: That is not on the safe list of Wish. You are attempting to set a recurring 9th level spell effect to target an arbitrary creature (possibly multiple arbitrary creatures) at a later date contingent upon a particular trigger. You are inviting a twisted wish. The 'simple' one is to pick one of your arbitrary words and treat it as a proper noun rather than as you intended. It only works on people named "Anyone" now. Alternate: It only applies when someone transports to "My Demiplane" - a location that's not actually named as such, and doesn't properly exist. Things could be worse - a partial fulfillment might lose the out on your safety clauses, and eject everyone from your demiplane regardless of how they got there... rendering the entire plain useless to you.

Oh yes, and Transport Traveler's Wishes permit a Will save, too, even if you get around the SR issue.